Cosmetic Armor is a lost gameplay opportunity

[FrostDragoon]

21 minutes ago, Rayden_Tenno said:

 

And? I've played for plat myself in the past cuz i wanted to. These devs deserve the support. That doesn't mean that it's p2w. People don't pay in order to get stuff that boost you and that you can't get unless its paying. People pay cuz these devs are a bless. I guess you must be one of those who wants everything handed on a silver plate, see any microtransactions and start screaming p2w.

So along with failing to understand my stance, you want to make false assumptions about me and launch more pointless character attacks on a dead topic that has nothing to do with where the conversation is now?

 

Good job, I guess.

[Lisztomaniac]

il y a 1 minute, FrostDragoon a dit :

If you read what I posted on the last page, you'd know that's not what I'm looking for, and the way you're describing it is exactly what people assumed I was talking about when it wasn't.

the way im describing it its the only way your suggestion could work, and no what people assumed youre talking about its old arcanes, you doofus you dont even know what people are trying to tell you lol, youre such an slowpoke you probably think people were refering to new-old arcanes and not old-old arcanes.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Lisztomaniac

[FrostDragoon]

20 minutes ago, Rayden_Tenno said:

People are argumenting. You just can't stand that people have a different POV from yours. If you can't do that, don't express your opinion on a public forum.

If it was only a difference of POV, it would have been fine. Instead what I got were pointless insults, flawed arguments, and people mischaracterizing and misinterpreting what I said deliberately.

[FrostDragoon]

4 minutes ago, Lisztomaniac said:

the way im describing it its the only way your suggestion could work, and no what people assumed youre talking about its old arcanes, you doofus you dont even know what people are trying to tell you lol, youre such an slowpoke you probably think people were refering to new-old arcanes and not old-old arcanes.

You literally failed to read the thread, see where the conversation is (not where it started), and are trying to argue against something I'm not talking about (straw man by definition). Seriously. Go. Read. It. It's the second to last post on pg 10.

Edit:

Btw, there are dozens of ways that the initial idea could be implemented which aren't what you described, so you might want to put some actual thought into your responses instead of just posting whatever knee-jerk notion comes to mind.

Edited October 31, 2018 by FrostDragoon

[Rayden_Tenno]

8 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

So along with failing to understand my stance, you want to make false assumptions about me and launch more pointless character attacks on a dead topic that has nothing to do with where the conversation is now?

 

Good job, I guess.

No, i understand your stance perfectly. You think plats=p2w. You are wrong. End.

[Lisztomaniac]

il y a 8 minutes, FrostDragoon a dit :

You literally failed to read the thread, see where the conversation is (not where it started), and are trying to argue against something I'm not talking about (straw man by definition). Seriously. Go. Read. It. It's the second to last post on pg 10.

Edit:

Btw, there are dozens of ways that the initial idea could be implemented which aren't what you described, so you might want to put some actual thought into your responses instead of just posting whatever knee-jerk notion comes to mind.

gave you the benefit of the doubt and read the post and i only have to say

are you #*!%ing kidding me? my post was the exact same thing as yours, 1 socket on every piece of armor, bonuses to defenses and utilities that mods dont currently give, i literally simplified your post to a few examples and you still come and try to argue against it even tho im doing for you the simple task of simplifying your sugestion to something acceptable and easy to understand, youre literally arguing against your own idea here, thats how slow you are, youre triping with your own feet, at this point youre just trying to argue for the sake of arguing and youre not good at it, read my #*!%ing suggestion again, it was a list of posible modules for the sockets on each armor, youre honestly hopeless, tried to help you but you cant even #*!%ing help yourself.

 

read again you fkin doofus:

@FrostDragoonyoure too #*!%ing stupid to hold an argument so please stop trying, ima help you here tho, armors could have  1 socket, per piece, you get farmable modules for armors like:

 "ferrite shoulder armor module"- 50% of your WF armor turns into ferrite- stacks for 100% if equiped on both shoulders.

"Vigorous shoulder armor module" +X Base health

"Reinforced shoulder armor module" +x Base armor

"Energized shoulder armor module" +X base energy

"Erudite shoulder armor module" +X affinity per kill

"Protectors chestplate module" X% of damage received by teammates its redirected to you

"kinetic shoulder armor module" X energy on melee hit.

"ricochet armor module" X% chance of reflecting damage boosting it by xxxx%

"Rebound leg armor module" X% faster recovery speed.

"Karmic Leg armor module" X% chance to knockdown/stagger/kockback enemies in a X radius when knockeddown/staggered/knocked back.

would that be ok with you?  

Edited October 31, 2018 by Lisztomaniac

[FrostDragoon]

41 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Arcanes and the Focus System offer exactly the functionality you are speaking of without the flat stats.

They don't. That's the point. Doubly so when arcanes often have RNG proc and I'm looking for tweaking the frames at a base level.

...It's why I threw an entirely different idea out there to you.

I'm not misunderstanding what you are saying...I am telling you that the idea is redundant implemented in with our current frames.

It doesn't exist, so it can't be redundant.

DE uses what is probably closest to describe as the Trinity or DnD class system with intended strengths and weaknesses for each frame.

It felt that way when the game was new and earlier in design, but it's long since moved past that, and even what I'm suggesting doesn't actually change it much. It's more like it blurs the edges rather than removes them entirely.

They use their mod mechanic and incomparables to modify these but within what appears to be allowances imo.

Your idea, implemented where you want it would will not get added where you want it without invalidating another feature or being redundant to it. 

Are you referring to the example I set this morning or the OP? If the former, I don't see how you could think this about it. If the latter, we're all pretty well past that notion, aren't we? I hope so.

Any stat they could add something to can be added via the Arcane or Focus systems now with the distinct trade-off not being able to pick something else.

They *could* do that with Arcanes, but I don't see it going well with only two slots, because for the most part Arcanes serve a fairly different function (hence why it isn't redundant).

...DE likes that kinda stuff.

As to the rest...I would personally say your idea has merit, but not where you want it applied... So think of how it can be applied where everyone stands to get something they want.

The only limitation on what people get compared to what they want is what DE decides are eligible for these bonuses.

...I mention crafting because it's a rather static deal right now and costs upticks suggest that DE would like to get it out of our inventory.

Not sure what you mean by this.

DE is definitely interested in expanding this if the pet system is any indicator.

Likewise, it potentially becomes another cash cow for DE along with becoming the new hotness in creating Unique frames designs for players.

DE could literally start buying frame designs, (instead of purely tennogen) from players directly for these extra avatars which means the artists make out too.

I thought about a similar frame crafting idea earlier today, so I thought it was interesting you were on the same track, but ultimately I dismissed it because it goes against the frame design so far (especially in terms of theme and "identity"), even if the customization side of it greatly appeals to me. The only major difference was that I was thinking to tie in the passive and ultimate with the BP, and 1, 2, and 3 abilities with each of the other parts respectively.

I'd be happy to explore that idea with you more in another thread, though.

...But that's just my opinion.

At the end of the day though, you need these folks to like and sell your idea...You won't get that via insults.

The only people getting insulted are those dishing them out, and they weren't interested in the discussion in the first place. Otherwise, I agree.

Bolded my commentary since it's easier than trying to piece apart the quote boxes.

 

[MasterBurik]

1 minute ago, Padre_Akais said:

Very True.

How could the current idea be implemented in the current system without it being potentially duplicated by another mechanic.

Just spitballing here, but...

A Helminth-based tuning system for frames:

• Strain modification to tweak the base stats (and resistances) of frames...maybe have a few generalized/unique passives that would replace the one on said frame.
• Establish a semblance of permanence with a gating system for any changes to the frame. Modifying the strain takes time and effort, and so should any adjustments or reversals after the fact. This would be a player's true feeling of min/max.
• Gating the system itself from "newer" players can be an option. As it provides a min/max feel, attaching it to something "endgame" (ha) could be quite appealing. This would also protect newer players from an oversaturation of mechanics.

It may be clouded behind bits and pieces of a number of mechanical designs, but the functionality remains the same as mods, arcanes, focus schools, weapons, and frames: To encourage build diversity.

[FrostDragoon]

12 minutes ago, Lisztomaniac said:

/snip

Another one for the ignore list. Doesn't understand what I suggested. (Hint: I'm not attaching it to the actual cosmetics, derp.) Ceaseless and pointless name-calling. Goodbye.

Edit:

To clarify one other thing, you didn't understand that I specifically didn't want to lock certain bonus types into specific armor slots. RIP reading comprehension.

Edited October 31, 2018 by FrostDragoon

[Lisztomaniac]

à l’instant, FrostDragoon a dit :

Another one for the ignore list. Doesn't understand what I suggested. (Hint: I'm not attaching it to the actual cosmetics, derp.) Ceaseless and pointless name-calling. Goodbye.

lol this guy must be a walking headache in real life.

[FrostDragoon]

3 minutes ago, MasterBurik said:

Just spitballing here, but...

A Helminth-based tuning system for frames:

• Strain modification to tweak the base stats (and resistances) of frames...maybe have a few generalized/unique passives that would replace the one on said frame.
• Establish a semblance of permanence with a gating system for any changes to the frame. Modifying the strain takes time and effort, and so should any adjustments or reversals after the fact. This would be a player's true feeling of min/max.
• Gating the system itself from "newer" players can be an option. As it provides a min/max feel, attaching it to something "endgame" (ha) could be quite appealing. This would also protect newer players from an oversaturation of mechanics.

It may be clouded behind bits and pieces of a number of mechanical designs, but the functionality remains the same as mods, arcanes, focus schools, weapons, and frames: To encourage build diversity.

Neat idea.

[IntheCoconut]

3 minutes ago, MasterBurik said:

Just spitballing here, but...

A Helminth-based tuning system for frames:

• Strain modification to tweak the base stats (and resistances) of frames...maybe have a few generalized/unique passives that would replace the one on said frame.
• Establish a semblance of permanence with a gating system for any changes to the frame. Modifying the strain takes time and effort, and so should any adjustments or reversals after the fact. This would be a player's true feeling of min/max.
• Gating the system itself from "newer" players can be an option. As it provides a min/max feel, attaching it to something "endgame" (ha) could be quite appealing. This would also protect newer players from an oversaturation of mechanics.

It may be clouded behind bits and pieces of a number of mechanical designs, but the functionality remains the same as mods, arcanes, focus schools, weapons, and frames: To encourage build diversity.

I love this idea on paper. I'm not a game designer so its difficult for me to imagine how this would translate with actual gameplay (as in would it be fun, the balancing of it, etc). But again, it sounds awesome and I really like what this could offer for end game/veterans. Its something to look forward to and work towards after you've forma'd and potato'd the hell out of your frames.

[Rakosta_Kai]

11 minutes ago, MasterBurik said:

Just spitballing here, but...

A Helminth-based tuning system for frames:

• Strain modification to tweak the base stats (and resistances) of frames...maybe have a few generalized/unique passives that would replace the one on said frame.
• Establish a semblance of permanence with a gating system for any changes to the frame. Modifying the strain takes time and effort, and so should any adjustments or reversals after the fact. This would be a player's true feeling of min/max.
• Gating the system itself from "newer" players can be an option. As it provides a min/max feel, attaching it to something "endgame" (ha) could be quite appealing. This would also protect newer players from an oversaturation of mechanics.

It may be clouded behind bits and pieces of a number of mechanical designs, but the functionality remains the same as mods, arcanes, focus schools, weapons, and frames: To encourage build diversity.

I like it!

Cool idea that makes use of a room on the orbiter and adds a new system to boot.

But the actual boosts could still be duplicated by other mechanics which is where the problem comes in.

I'm assuming you would expect that the system would potentially raise somethings by lowering others.

The other systems literally lock you out of options purely by virtue of function vs slot allocation. i.e. You can have "this thing" but you will have to forego "these things" for it.

Would this be on par with like a full frame corruption where some attributes are increased by this system while reducing others in the process...That would provide a massive amount of customization options.

Having to use the Focus and Arcane system to balance out what the Helminth system stole would be kinda massive (in an intriguing way). 

[DeMonkey]

51 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

If it was only a difference of POV, it would have been fine. Instead what I got were pointless insults, flawed arguments, and people mischaracterizing and misinterpreting what I said deliberately.

It seems you're in a bit of a jam, so I figured I'd lend you a hand.

This is the post that set it all off, you're absolutely right. They stated that they "had to laugh" and ad hominemed by attacking the motive for posting instead of the presented arguments. 

It isn't acceptable, and I definitely think you should report this person.

[FrostDragoon]

5 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

I like it!

Cool idea that makes use of a room on the orbiter and adds a new system to boot.

But the actual boosts could still be duplicated by other mechanics which is where the problem comes in.

I'm assuming you would expect that the system would potentially raise somethings by lowering others.

The other systems literally lock you out of options purely by virtue of function vs slot allocation. i.e. You can have "this thing" but you will have to forego "these things" for it.

Would this be on par with like a full frame corruption where some attributes are increased by this system while reducing others in the process...That would provide a massive amount of customization options.

Having to use the Focus and Arcane system to balance out what the Helminth system stole would be kinda massive (in an intriguing way). 

There are two reasonable methods of approach with something like this, imo.

1. It can give those small tweak bonuses that I was suggesting initially.

2. It can give larger bonuses with trade-offs like you are suggesting.

If it tries to take the worst of both worlds by having small bonuses with negative trade-offs, people tend to either dislike it or ignore it outright. Personally, I'm okay with either of the two, but I slightly prefer the first just because I prefer the negative trade-offs to not come in permanent form (which is why they make sense in mods, where you can easily switch them out).

[FashionFrame]

On 2018-10-30 at 11:42 AM, Gabbynaru said:

That's the exact opposite of cosmetic items. Those are pay-to-win items you're asking for. So, no, thank you!

Why is there 12 pages of people arguing when THIS QUOTE is the perfect, legitimate reason why DE refuses to do OP's ridiculous idea. 

Maybe OP is Electronic Arts. This must be why they're trying too hard to convince others to try such a predatory, money grabbing idea. 

[FrostDragoon]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

It seems you're in a bit of a jam, so I figured I'd lend you a hand.

This is the post that set it all off, you're absolutely right. They stated that they "had to laugh" and ad hominemed by attacking the motive for posting instead of the presented arguments. 

It isn't acceptable, and I definitely think you should report this person.

Going to join that crowd? It's a non-starter. It doesn't get you anywhere, except perhaps risking reports yourself for trolling.

[DeMonkey]

9 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

Going to join that crowd? It's a non-starter. It doesn't get you anywhere, except perhaps risking reports yourself for trolling.

What crowd, I'm just being helpful. That was the first post that can be argued to be an attack, I thought it might be beneficial to you to know when it all started as it appears to be a big problem at the moment.

I apologise if it wasn't helpful, it's all I wanted 

[FrostDragoon]

There's nothing of an "attack" in that post. You're simply trolling, badly.

[Rakosta_Kai]

25 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

Arcanes and the Focus System offer exactly the functionality you are speaking of without the flat stats.

They don't. That's the point. Doubly so when arcanes often have RNG proc and I'm looking for tweaking the frames at a base level.

27 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

It doesn't exist, so it can't be redundant.

 

We will have to agree to disagree on this point.

My stance is that it take brick to make a brick wall... The current systems give the effect that the flat stats basically provide.

28 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

It felt that way when the game was new and earlier in design, but it's long since moved past that, and even what I'm suggesting doesn't actually change it much. It's more like it blurs the edges rather than removes them entirely.

It really hasn't though...The only thing that has really changed in this game is the aspect of CC and energy availability.

...The rest is numbers.

29 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

Are you referring to the example I set this morning or the OP? If the former, I don't see how you could think this about it. If the latter, we're all pretty well past that notion, aren't we? I hope so.

Wouldn't matter (cosmetic or not) because it's still a mechanic offering options that are duplicated by other mechanics imo.

31 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

They *could* do that with Arcanes, but I don't see it going well with only two slots, because for the most part Arcanes serve a fairly different function (hence why it isn't redundant).

Arcanes tend to function as either incomparables or conditionals (sometimes both)...That's not different from Mods, Arcanes, or even the Focus system right now.

...Don't forget though that DE likes whammy prizes and hard choices.

36 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

The only limitation on what people get compared to what they want is what DE decides are eligible for these bonuses.

Buy-in doesn't work like that.

Ya can't hype it if it ain't hype-worthy.

37 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

Not sure what you mean by this.

That it costs more to craft than it used to.

Even though the prices haven't appreciably changed on the old stuff everything appears to be becoming harder to farm in large quantities now.

...Or my luck is just really bad.

39 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

I thought about a similar frame crafting idea earlier today, so I thought it was interesting you were on the same track, but ultimately I dismissed it because it goes against the frame design so far (especially in terms of theme and "identity"), even if the customization side of it greatly appeals to me. The only major difference was that I was thinking to tie in the passive and ultimate with the BP, and 1, 2, and 3 abilities with each of the other parts respectively.

I'd be happy to explore that idea with you more in another thread, though.

I like that Helminth idea from @MasterBurik too.

I'm not too worried about theme and identity issues as DE appears to be becoming a bit more fluid on those if the premium skins are any indication.

Both idea appeal though...

Can you imagine a Rhino doing a Stomp that doesn't stop time but disarms everyone instead.

Or a Loki with a Radial Disarm that stops time?...That you designed?

[DeMonkey]

8 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

There's nothing of an "attack" in that post. You're simply trolling, badly.

You sure? I'm 95% certain that saying you're laughing at people can be considered an attack, as can the ad hominem regarding how people are just being naysayers "keeping up with the Jones" because they disagree with you. 

Don't know why it matters though, you're the one complaining about people attacking you and you'd hardly be a hypocrite who threw the first stone, would you?

[FrostDragoon]

If you think it's an attack to find humor in their bad arguments, you probably don't understand what either of those things are. Either way, I won't be responding to your further attempts to derail. Stay on topic or shut up.

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 minute ago, FrostDragoon said:

If you think it's an attack to find humor in their bad arguments, you probably don't understand what either of those things are. Either way, I won't be responding to your further attempts to derail. Stay on topic or shut up.

Dude... You gotta stop this.

It's a shame that you are letting an idea that really has some potential merit, if only players got to hear it, get buried by your temperament instead.

[Cleesus]

This thread has obviously went places, its current location will be LockedLand where threads die for numerous forum guideline violations