Thoughts on upcoming Fortuna

[Scallywag_Swagger]

Dear DE,

 

Please listen. Please read. I love this game. I love you guys. I love Reb especially, because brunettes are super awesome (and Megan because us red-heads have to stick together)

 

More than a year ago now, I posted a not-so-nice gripe post, mostly about the plains. Everything I complained about was eventually patched (for the most part)...

 

BUT it wasn't in time. And you lost players you could've otherwise kept.

 

Don't make the same mistakes this time. PoE attracted nearly a million people to the game, nearly all of whom left within a week (two at the most). NOT because Warframe is a bad game(SPOILER ALERT: It's not a bad game, quite the opposite, it's an awesome game), but because the insane amount of nonsense built into it, such as improper skyboxes, insane amounts of grinding, obtuse Eidolon hunting methods (seriously obtuse), a Day/Night cycle that creates a toxic Eidolon hunting community (which still hasn't been fixed; best bet here would be a flat 60/60), random bugs and crashes, ridiculous draw distances, etc., etc.

What's worse is that, even when you didn't win the game awards for best long running game (or whatever it was called) you still didn't understand why you didn't have the votes: Because a lot of us who were going to vote for you, didn't. And we didn't because Reb made us all sound like shallow fools with her comment about how "...Fashion Frame is very important to our players..." and after all of these years, you still haven't registered in your brains that it isn't. The saying 'Fashion Frame is endgame' is a direct, extremely derogatory dig at your unwanted, unwelcomed and unappreciated obsession with visuals. Do we want content? Yes. But that content should be useful (for example: What is the purpose in having extra pieces of 'armor' if it doesn't actually add any armor value???). So, I'm going to reach into my personal settings menu, deep inside my brain, and turn down my 'Huge Jerk' setting all the way down (or as low as I can get it), long enough to offer some helpful suggestions that will not only make players happy, but will help attract and (more importantly) keep new players. I'm going for order of importance here, so bear with me:

1) A proper lobby system -> This cannot be stressed, said, reprinted, re-said and hammered on enough. The current 'lobby' nonsense is broken, non-sensical and mostly useless. If you'd like to know what a good lobby system looks like, there are 2 games I'd reference out of the gate: For P2P games (like wf ) look to PayDay2; or, if you'd prefer something that uses a more dedicated server system, Left4Dead 2. Both lobby systems have their advantages and disadvantages, but both of them do it very well. In PD2, the host picks the mission, can invite players, kick players, set Infamy (Mastery Rank) and/or Level requirements (such as equipped warframe level) for players wanting to join, set it for invite only, friends only, public, etc. The host can also enable/disable drop-in for both public and private matches and players can simply ready up when it's time to launch. I'll even take this suggestion a step further and note that, if players could tweak their loadouts so that weapons in specific loadouts could have specific mods JUST for that loadout - and even rearrange loadout order in their loadout menu - it would make it even better.

2) Learn the difference between a scalpel and a hammer -> There's an old saying "If the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, everything looks like a nail".  But not everything is a nail. Sometimes what you need is a scalpel. There have been multiple occasions (a few of which I'll reference so you can gain some clarity) where you've swung the proverbial hammer only to come back within weeks or even days to tweak or fine tune (if you do anything at all after the initial swing) things that wouldn't have had to fine tune if you'd taken a little bit of time and thought it through a little better. Need some examples? Ember, Saryn, Volt, Gara and, pretty soon, maiming strike (via the 'Melee 3.0' you have planned, which, for the record, everyone in the community pretty much hates the idea of; this isn't Darksiders and your idea is super bad, please don't do it; don't swing that hammer). In the case of Maiming Strike, a simple nerf to the amount of damage a slide attack does while adding a slight buff to combo attacks will alter the meta. <- See what I did there? See how very slight changes make a HUGE difference? If you don't want Spin2Win to be the meta, fine, that's cool and I get it... but don't try to turn melee combat into bloody Darksiders/Legend of Zelda just because you overlooked the simple answer. Pretty please? With sugar on top? This game is way too hectic for that idea to work well and melee will be abandoned if you go that route. And that will be a sad day for us all. Not everything is a nail. Think it through, ask for feedback, do what you gotta do... as long as you stop swinging the bloody hammer.

3) Enough with the grind -> Seriously. Enough. I get that getting resources is just part of the game and that some resources/mods/arcanes being rarer than others is part of the attraction... But under absolutely NO circumstances are crazy amounts of insanely rare resources like Cetus Wisp called for. To build 1 amp part for a decent amp, it takes 20 wisps. 60 for the whole amp. Plus another 2? 5? to gild it to get the final stats. To put that into perspective, there are only 2 ways of reliably obtaining wisps: Farming runs (where, on average, you'll spend 10-15 minutes scouring the plains on your Archwing to net 4 wisps) or 10,000 standing (after achieveing MAXIMUM rank) from Quill Onnko to get ONE wisp, standing you can ONLY get from hunting Eidolons and getting cores. <- This becomes farming recursion hell because you need a good amp to hunt/farm ediolons in the first place, as the Mote amp is only slightly more useful than a toothpick. Lighten the load, man. There are numerous places in this game where you can lighten the load on players (but most especially newer players) so more fun can be had doing cool things like hunting Eidolons as opposed to mind-numbing and soul crushing amounts of grind. To put this into full perspective for you guys: Warframe is now the #1 most grindy game on the planet, yes, that's including WoW. That's not okay, folks. I only stuck through it during times when I'm saving money (so I can buy a house, or a new car, or a new PC if you're curious) and buying games where the bigger concentration is on fun and story rather than soul-rending amounts of grind simply wasn't within my budgetary means. Please stop. Pretty please? With butterfly-kisses?
** Need an idea for this one? I'm pretty sure I saw a post where some guy suggested adding a pool mechanism in the dojo that other clan members can pull from. In my mind, this means we could go to the dojo (that is, players like me who have 100+ cetus wisp they're never going to use because they've built everything under the sun twice) and donate resources that other players in the clan can simply withdraw from. <- This would also make building up decorations in dojos much easier as well, so I'm really digging this idea. It would give me somewhere to use all of the 672,000+ Rubedo I'm currently lugging around.

*EDIT: I'm not saying the grind needs to go away, just that some of the more overkill portions of it be toned down enough to not feel like your immortal soul is being squeezed out of your body Freddy Kreuger - A Nightmare on Elm Street style.

 

4) NO MORE FAVORITISM!!! -> For this one, sadly, I'm going to have to be a little insulting here, so hold your nose and prepare for the cold water: Most (not all, just most) of the current Warframe parnters are cancer. And I mean that almost literally. And, even if I'm 100% off the mark here (I'm not, in case anyone's curious, there's video proof all over youtube and twitch, it will take you 10 seconds to find folks like Mogammu being toxic, hateful, disgusting, real-life threatening people and far, far worse), the fact that we can't even use our Clan logos as our  Profile glyphs while people who behave like entitled brat-children get free advertising from you guys (and, apparently, free reign to be jerks whenever they want, up to and including getting others banned) is not OK. It's the furthest thing from OK, it's wholly unacceptable. Obey your own rules and put a stop to it. If you want proof, PM me and I'll send you the links, but I strongly suspect you've already seen it and yet these folks remain partners.... not cool, guys. Not. Cool.
* Personally, I don't think you should 'partner' with anyone, because you don't really need it. But most of the current partners should probably find their way to the underside of the barrel for a little while. Instead, maybe pick unknown streamers who play and do 'Weekly featured players'. Just don't pick me. I do stream, but I'm often way more concentrated on playing well than I am on being entertaining, so my stream is probably boring (a confession I know I shouldn't make, but there it is).

5) Fix game breaking glitches with better accuracy whenever possible. -> This one I'm going to try to be super fair on, because, for the most part, it's obvious that you DO try. Sometimes you're better at it than others, but there's still a pretty persistent bug where players randomly can't use abilities, transference, switch weapons or really anything else after being revived. It seems fairly random and the only way to reset this particular bug is to allow yourself to die off and respawn. If you're using a certain build out for a certain sentinel, this basically means you have to leave the game, since you'll probably never NOT get revived. Yeah. Super annoying. Again, in fairness, it's clear you do try (sometimes, really, really hard) and sometimes you do really, really well... but this particular one has been around for nearly a year now and still hounds us. 

 

6) Lay off the endless, pointless content filler -> At this point, I've alluded to and at least once, outright said it: Enough with the Syandanas, useless 'armor' and extra skins. They don't really add any tangible benefit to the game. The time you waste on this stuff could be better spent play testing new ideas, new warframes, abilities, mods, coding patches, fixing your broken netcode (which, by the way, communicates WAY more data than it needs to) and so on and so forth. We love new content... when it's actual content,  such as new missions, new stories, new weapons, new warframes... you know, the things that make this great game really great. But it's very obvious you spend a lot of time on stuff that doesn't really add anything to gameplay. You created Tennogen for a reason. Put it to use, take your cut of the profits and refocus your efforts on the places that really need it.

7) Do actual playtesting -> By this, I don't mean you and your 'partner' cronies (who, by the way, are all yes-men; I've watched enough of their streams and videos to know this to be true) and get some actual regular players (pick at random! or make a game/contest out if it if you can) to play-test new game builds and give feedback. If people who participate fail to give good feedback (or any at all) don't use them again and move on. But do some actual play-testing of your ideas with your actual community. The end-results of the release will be smoother and you'll have a better game and more appreciative community out of it. And you won't need to swing that hammer quite so often (maybe never again).

I'm sure others will think of things I haven't, but I tried to hit all of the major gripes in a single post. Outside of one particularly insulting bit, my 'Huge Jerk' slider remained turned down to the lowest setting I'm capable of this late at night.

In conclusion: I love this game, I love the work you've done. I love the fact you've risen from the underdog-ashes to become a F2P power house. It's great. But I love the game enough to want it to go from being great to truly awesome and, at 3126 hours (just logged through Steam, nevermind the pre-steam client), I think I'm pretty qualified to give some feedback and I'm well-versed enough in design and code that, if pressed, my feedback can be extremely useful (just gotta keep my jerk settings on low so people will listen, I guess). Rise above being just 'great'. Not because I asked you to, but because you've built something where you truly can. But only if you try.

 

<3 you guys. <3 you too, Reb.

 

Peace out, my Ninjas.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Scallywag_Swagger
updated comment

[PoisonHD]

25 minutes ago, Scallywag_Swagger said:

The saying 'Fashion Frame is endgame' is a direct, extremely derogatory dig at your unwanted, unwelcomed and unappreciated obsession with visuals.

Maybe to you, but a lot of players enjoy FashionFrame and actually playing the game equally. Fashion is quite literally all that matters to a lot of people.

[Miser_able]

25 minutes ago, Scallywag_Swagger said:

And we didn't because Reb made us all sound like shallow fools with her comment about how "...Fashion Frame is very important to our players..." and after all of these years, you still haven't registered in your brains that it isn't. 

Except it is. Most of the community loves fashionframe, some people spend hours just customizing their gear. Just because it's not important to you, doesn't mean it's not important to others. 

The rest of this is just unfounded, rudely delivered, borderline dev-bashing opinions. I wouldn't even consider this feedback, Im not sure what to call it though. 

Sure the game isn't perfect, it still has a way to go, but that is true for everything people create. The point is that DE does their best improve it, and just because we don't always agree with or enjoy the changes doesn't make them bad. Even if we don't like come of the changes they are healthy for the game in the long run. And if you don't like a change, offer constructive criticism to better it, don't be an A hole about it. (and no, knowing you're being an A hole and telling everyone does not make it OK) learn to deliver proper constructive criticism, otherwise no one will take you seriously. 

On an end note, wait and see how Fortuna comes out before hating on it, DE isn't telling us everything about it, so we can't pretend to know everything about it. 

[LupisV0lk]

28 minutes ago, Scallywag_Swagger said:

tl;dr

A whole lot of Reee and QQing.

I'm rather shock really, that something that's not out can cause such emotions in people.

[Goodwill]

1 minute ago, PoisonHD said:

Maybe to you, but a lot of players enjoy FashionFrame and actually playing the game equally. Fashion is quite literally all that matters to a lot of people.

Actually, I got the impression that he wasn't harping on that Fashion Frame as a bad thing. But imagine if instead of "Ninjas Play for Free" (which is still a terrible line in my opinion) it was, "Dress up your characters for free". I think it's a real concern if Warframe starts to become a joke and it may hurt potential audiences who don't want to play a dress up Barbie doll game. DE probably should make sure it's clear that Warframe is suppose to be a badass-ass, space-wizard-ninja-mercenary sci-fi game. The fact that you can customise your player character is simply a feature.

[Dioxety]

34 minutes ago, Scallywag_Swagger said:

What's worse is that, even when you didn't win the game awards for best long running game (or whatever it was called) you still didn't understand why you didn't have the votes

Just saying Warframe actually did win the popular vote for the game awards. Which is why everyone called it rigged. 

But apparently our votes didn’t really mean anything and the judges end up having the say on choosing the final winner.

Edited November 6, 2018 by --Q--Dioxety

[Xico.xide]

37 minutes ago, Scallywag_Swagger said:

-snip-

1. I have trouble understanding what makes warframe's lobby system improper, what does it do wrong? You can change your weapons, warframe, companions, etc. Whoever wants be the host can just invite anyone be it from their friend list, clan members, even from the chat. Everyone in the party can choose whatever mission (albeit the start timer may be trolly sometimes). Is it improper because there isn't an entirely separate screen specifically for it?

2. Behind all the metaphorical fluff, I find the warframe tweaks pretty alright. Also I would rather not speak for entire community and call something garbage when we haven't even got to touch melee 3.0 yet

3. I agree that cetus wisp grind could be better as well as the price of one, but it isn't the absolute worst thing either.

4. I can't speak for this topic since I don't watch warframe youtubers besides Shy.

5. The only point where I can agree on this is the transference being randomly janked during tridolon hunts.

6. There's a thing just around the corner called Fortuna. (oh wait you hate it before it even comes out i guess)

7. The way I see it though, we act as the playtesters for console players to seek out bugs before it ships to them.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Xico.xide

[LupisV0lk]

Just now, --Q--Dioxety said:

Just saying Warframe won the popular vote for the game awards.

 

but the vote doesn’t mean anything and the judges chose overwatch. ( I think it was)

Yeah Overwatch won.

But let's not ignore the fact that Warframe had ZERO chance to win, they're not a AAA game with a scumbag of a publlisher to peddle out goodies for votes.

[Dioxety]

2 minutes ago, LupisV0lk said:

Yeah Overwatch won.

But let's not ignore the fact that Warframe had ZERO chance to win, they're not a AAA game with a scumbag of a publlisher to peddle out goodies for votes.

the whole thing was a sham. Why have a vote if it doesn’t mean anything and the whole choice is decided by the committee. (Which blizzard probably paid for)

 

i remember the overwatch reddit went fire after as well and everyone was questioning why they won.

Edited November 6, 2018 by --Q--Dioxety

[LupisV0lk]

Just now, --Q--Dioxety said:

the whole thing was a sham. Why have a vote if it doesn’t mean anything and the whole choice is decided by the committee. (Which blizzard probably paid for)

Yeah ikr that's most mainstream game awards shows. I do think publishers did put people in as judges. Just can't remember where i saw it.

[Goodwill]

4 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

Except it is. Most of the community loves fashionframe, some people spend hours just customizing their gear. Just because it's not important to you, doesn't mean it's not important to others. 

The rest of this is just unfounded, rudely delivered, borderline dev-bashing opinions. I wouldn't even consider this feedback, Im not sure what to call it though. 

Sure the game isn't perfect, it still has a way to go, but that is true for everything people create. The point is that DE does their best improve it, and just because we don't always agree with or enjoy the changes doesn't make them bad. Even if we don't like come of the changes they are healthy for the game in the long run. And if you don't like a change, offer constructive criticism to better it, don't be an A hole about it. (and no, knowing you're being an A hole and telling everyone does not make it OK) learn to deliver proper constructive criticism, otherwise no one will take you seriously. 

On an end note, wait and see how Fortuna comes out before hating on it, DE isn't telling us everything about it, so we can't pretend to know everything about it. 

Well, vocal community. We are not sure how many players actually care about "Fashion Frame". It could be like, 10k players out of 300k players. And the other 290k players just like to blow stuff up and still use default color palettes and skins. We don't know.

In saying that, I like Fashion Frame but I think the game itself should take priority. Keyword is "priority".

1 minute ago, --Q--Dioxety said:

Just saying Warframe won the popular vote for the game awards.

 

but the vote doesn’t mean anything and the judges chose overwatch. ( I think it was)

So it's like a political election?

[LupisV0lk]

Just now, Goodwill said:

So it's like a political election?

Well a USA one.

[Goodwill]

1 minute ago, LupisV0lk said:

Well a USA one.

Don't worry... happens in Australia as well. We've been through 7 prime ministers in just 10 years.

[ChatNinja]

36 minutes ago, Scallywag_Swagger said:

7) Do actual playtesting -> By this, I don't mean you and your 'partner' cronies (who, by the way, are all yes-men; I've watched enough of their streams and videos to know this to be true) and get some actual regular players (pick at random! or make a game/contest out if it if you can) to play-test new game builds and give feedback. If people who participate fail to give good feedback (or any at all) don't use them again and move on. But do some actual play-testing of your ideas with your actual community. The end-results of the release will be smoother and you'll have a better game and more appreciative community out of it. And you won't need to swing that hammer quite so often (maybe never again).

So I just want to make a note on this comment here. DE consists of 300+ people I believe and they do their own internal testing before releasing an update. if all 300+ people do testing that doesn't even come close to the several hundred thousand people who will be playing when it releases. Lastly if you want a polished not broken on launch version then play on consoles for a better chance because PC more or less is the testing bed.

[LupisV0lk]

2 minutes ago, Goodwill said:

Don't worry... happens in Australia as well. We've been through 7 prime ministers in just 10 years.

Yeah, but that's by media BS and the parties. Not some 3rd party arbiter during the election.....oh wait......

[Scallywag_Swagger]

FYI:

Fashion Frame isn't end-game. Reaching the point in the game where you can help other people reach your level is the only current end-game.

 

As for the emotional bit, I'm mostly an emotionally dead-inside person. I have to fake most of my feelings. If you're reading this, thinking it was an 'emotional' post, that's because you're projecting yourself onto me. Please stop.

If you don't agree, fine, you don't agree. But bashing my suggestions just goes to prove what many long-term players have had to say about the forums: It needs to be doused in gasoline and set on fire and a whole new forums built, minus the toxic whiners. <- Not sure I agree with this sentiment, but given your responses so far, I certainly understand where it comes from.

 

BTW: I've been around longer than any 10 of you combined and have spent more money than any 20 of you, so, feel free to cast aspersions if you wish, but I'm not going anywhere. :)

[LupisV0lk]

Whoa look out lads, we got a badass over here.

[Scallywag_Swagger]

2 minutes ago, LupisV0lk said:

Whoa look out lads, we got a badass over here.

Is this what you're looking for?

[Chewarette]

48 minutes ago, Scallywag_Swagger said:

Don't make the same mistakes this time. PoE attracted nearly a million people to the game, nearly all of whom left within a week (two at the most).

You very well know that's utterly wrong.

Plus, you seem to misunderstand one thing : Games have to evolve. Warframe is evolving. In a direction which may not please you, if that's the case, you're free to... find another ? The new orientation of the game seems to please a lot of people. Not you ? Too bad.

[Xico.xide]

6 minutes ago, Scallywag_Swagger said:

and have spent more money than any 20 of you

I wouldn't call that a good thing ._.

[Scallywag_Swagger]

13 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

You very well know that's utterly wrong.

*snip*

Except that it isn't as inaccurate as you think. A million concurrent? No. Nearly a million new or returning? Yes, without a doubt. And where did that end up from the dizzying height of over 127K concurrent at PoE release?

https://steamcharts.com/app/230410

There. It ended up right there. From Steam's Top 5 to below the bottom 30. Yeah. It really bites when someone actually does a little bit of digging to prove the facts, yeah?

 

EDIT: Steam Charts are updated hourly, at the moment it's after 1AM ET and Warframe sits at #8 on the running list (which communicates how well the game does after midnight, I suppose). Overall, for the last year, it's below rank 30 (but not by a terrible amount). It's not my responsibility to teach you how to use Steam charts. Nor is it the end-all-be-all of data points, just an interesting one to keep an eye on.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Scallywag_Swagger
updated info for accuracy

[Scallywag_Swagger]

2 minutes ago, Xico.xide said:

I wouldn't call that a good thing ._.

I support games I like because I know how much work goes into making them. I've helped on a few and, at one point, was working to get into digital design for films. It didn't work out for me (I'm not the artist I'd like to be), but it did give me a healthy appreciation for how much heart and soul gets poured into these things... and how easy it is to get derailed completely. Which I don't want to happen for this game or its developers.

[dEjAvU5566]

Fortuna will have more grind, sorry op.

And fashion frame is one of the end games, sorry again op.

 

[geo223]

4 minutes ago, Scallywag_Swagger said:

Except that it isn't as inaccurate as you think. A million concurrent? No. Nearly a million new or returning? Yes, without a doubt. And where did that end up from the dizzying height of over 127K concurrent at PoE release?

https://steamcharts.com/app/230410

There. It ended up right there. From Steam's Top 5 to below the bottom 30. Yeah. It really bites when someone actually does a little bit of digging to prove the facts, yeah?

below the bottom 30 what? top games with the concurrent player count?

[Scallywag_Swagger]

2 minutes ago, dEjAvU5566 said:

Fortuna will have more grind, sorry op.

And fashion frame is one of the end games, sorry again op.

 

You should feel sorry for you and for anyone who starts the game out and walks away.

 

The more people walk away, the more likely existing players are likely to walk away out of boredom or frustration. The more that happens, the more likely the game is to die. So, rather than having the opinion of 'Yeah, well, we like it the way it is, deal' you should probably take a step back and think about my suggestions. They're all valid, logical suggestions that would add real, lasting value and would only benefit us all in the long run.