M.O.V.G.A. (Make Orb Vallis Great Again)

[disco_inferno6]

25 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

Meh...just meh.

 

Man, for once the missions were somewhat engaging (at least if you wanted to get the bonus) because the enemies were at least a little stronger.

You had to actually play the missions and try not to fail.

 

Now we are just back to "do whatever you want, go mining, fishing, k driving, whatever you like, as long as there is one dude killing a few enemies here and there you will be fine and even get the bonus". I mean seriously...Even when i played with publics before this hotfixes that had a low MR, we didnt really fail a bounty stage completly, maybe we lost the bonus here and there a few times, but that should be the case with a bonus, or not?

 

I was in slight hope when arbitrations were released that DE raises the difficulty at least a little bit (still most players can do it), and when i started to play Fortuna i was pleasantly surprised that its not as easy and boring as the Plains.......now we are just back to normal i guess..

 

Edit1: If the dmg for that lvl was too high, ok, then raise the lvl a little bit.

Edit2: And what is the problem with dying a few times? We have 4-6 revives and the ability to revive each other.

Edit3: And lastly, at least i didnt see ANY topic in this forum about the enemies being too strong and dealing too much dmg and that people fail bountys all the time. The only complaints i have seen have been about the Standing Cap and about this one enemy who can push you around alot. Just nerf this one enemy then instead of reducing the dmg of most enemies..

I agree with every point made in your post.

I also think that the missions were perfectly doable by inexperienced players.

They could bring the level of mobs on par with their damage output in bounties 4 and especially 5.

 

Another very good point you made was about the 4-6 revives. I wonder how many people have actually lost all their 4 revives in Orb Vallies from a statistical point of view.

People tend to ignore the powercreep stacked with non threatening mobs. This may easily result in a bland gameplay early on during one's Warframe experience.

Edited November 13, 2018 by disco_inferno6

[DreisterDino]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb peterc3:

OV was not advertised as a challenge. The enemies in OV were presented as being a given level. The enemies did not have a damage and CC output that was anywhere close to what their level implied. This was fixed by DE.

Luckily for you, they included a way to up the ante and increase the danger by having a threat level system. This is where the challenge was advertised as being.

They were not "a little" stronger. They were completely out of line given their level.

Only problem is that really often the threat level just goes down for no reason at all even if you let the beacons stay alive no enemies keep spawning and there is nothing you can do. In ~10 runs where i tried to farm Toroids with Clanmembers and try to push the lvl we had exactly 1 run where we could go on and on. In all the other tries enemies stopped spawning and the lvl drecreased for no reason at all, as if they simply forgot about us infiltrating their most precious facilities.

Edit: I guess the Corpus are smarter then we think! They simply know that we stop attacking them and their facilities if they stop spawning 😀

 

Ah yes, and many pubs dont seem to know what those beacon do at all, they simply go and destroy them as soon as they see some. Even when you have an extermination bounty in which you want enemies to spawn.

Edited November 13, 2018 by DreisterDino

[DreisterDino]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Firetempest:

Haha.

Anyway. It's the second planet in the system. 

As a compromise. After completing fortuna rep, you should be able to unlock arbitration bounties. 1 life, high level roams.

I know this was probably a joke, but...

I would be happy if they let me chose before starting bountys that i want the "completly overpowered Corpus that shred each Frame to pieces in a heartbeat"  😛 that we had before the hotfix. Then i get matched with only people that have chosen the same option. Everyone who doesnt like it can chose the new enemies that we have now post-hotfix.

 

And no, i dont want any extra reward for that, i only care about the gameplay which i really liked 😉

[disco_inferno6]

21 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

They were not "a little" stronger. They were completely out of line given their level.

Then perhaps DE could tweak the level of mobs on Bounty no 5 to accommodate the needs of all creeds of players.

I seriously found Bounty no5 engaging before the hotfix. Not too hard, not too easy, most certainly rewarding.

It made me think of the Corpus empire as a powerful entity. Gamechanging...

Btw, cheers for your civilized response.

Edited November 13, 2018 by disco_inferno6

[FlusteredFerret]

19 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

OV was not advertised as a challenge. The enemies in OV were presented as being a given level. The enemies did not have a damage and CC output that was anywhere close to what their level implied. This was fixed by DE.

Luckily for you, they included a way to up the ante and increase the danger by having a threat level system. This is where the challenge was advertised as being.

They were not "a little" stronger. They were completely out of line given their level.

Exactly. Open world areas aren't supposed to be "end game content" for veterans. They're places for everyone to farm resources (and now race K-Drives).

[Zeiss17]

It's amazing how people complain about easier more laidback grind.

You want a challenge? Go endless, go do sorties or arbitrations.

I for once as a MR25 3 years old vet I welcome the change. The newbs will have way more fun now.

[disco_inferno6]

8 minutes ago, ShaneKahnnigan17 said:

It's amazing how people complain about easier more laidback grind.

You want a challenge? Go endless, go do sorties or arbitrations.

I for once as a MR25 3 years old vet I welcome the change. The newbs will have way more fun now.

Dude, it's truly impressive that you reached mr25 in 916 hours.

So you have compressed repetitive grind in a very short amount of time.

It is only natural that you want an easier time for the grind.

But what will happen when you acquire all gear ? What then ? What will you do with Warframe ?

 

Warframe is not about acquiring gear(well, it is in part...)

But it's mostly about the gameplay. Or at least it should be.

Edited November 13, 2018 by disco_inferno6

[disco_inferno6]

7 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Exactly. Open world areas aren't supposed to be "end game content" for veterans. They're places for everyone to farm resources (and now race K-Drives).

There is freeroam mode for that activity. It's far more effective.

Ok then. How about Bounty 5 in particular having a higher mob level ? Wouldn't that bridge the difference of opinion ?

[DreisterDino]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb ShaneKahnnigan17:

It's amazing how people complain about easier more laidback grind.

You want a challenge? Go endless, go do sorties or arbitrations.

I for once as a MR25 3 years old vet I welcome the change. The newbs will have way more fun now.

Again, this is just an opinion, and we understand that not everyone wants it.

But i really dislike a "easy laidback grind", when i play i want to play and dont feel so bored that i watch a movie while doing it or read a book, and yes thats what some people do.

 

"You want a challenge, do this" is not really an argument. Because like i said, this is about Fortuna, not about Arbitrations or Sorties.

And i personally dont enjoy Fortuna when it becomes this boring laidback grind. Thats the point.

 

endless...done it and tried it, but before endless becomes a challenge i have to play for over an hour of a boring snoozefest to get there, not my thing.

Sorties...good joke  I explained how i play sorties recently to get somewhat of a challenge somewhere else:

Spoiler

Still, my clanmates and i are doing Sorties with completly randomized loadouts for over a month now (its fun btw^^),

and i think we failed only 1 mission or so (ande a few spys here and there^^). It might take longer, but Meta is not required.

Edit: Ah, and even if you fail once...whats the problem? You can try again ^^ We found it funny for the most part if we (nearly) failed something.

Because thats a rare thing in Warframe. Next step is doing Sorties without HUD now for us btw (preparing for 20 minutes rescue missions 😀)

 

[Althaline]

3 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

And i personally dont enjoy Fortuna when it becomes this boring laidback grind.

I get the feeling from the way DE have designed things that the whole point of the open world areas is to be a more laidback section of the game, where you can go where you want and do what you want with a sense of consistency. They're not designed to be the ultimate endgame challenge.

[disco_inferno6]

8 minutes ago, Iamabearlulz said:

I get the feeling from the way DE have designed things that the whole point of the open world areas is to be a more laidback section of the game, where you can go where you want and do what you want with a sense of consistency. They're not designed to be the ultimate endgame challenge.

Fair enough. And I do see the rationale. It's too much coding and content effort to lay to waste due to difficulty.

But then again, since the gameplay in Bounty 5 was really engaging and balanced for a lot of other people (after a very long time),

DE could consider to up the level of mobs on Bounty 5 alone to bring them on par with their potency before the hotfix.

It would be the best of both worlds...

Edited November 13, 2018 by disco_inferno6

[Toran]

Wow... didn't notice - there was a difference? <Shrugs>

[disco_inferno6]

2 minutes ago, Toran said:

Wow... didn't notice - there was a difference? <Shrugs>

hehehehehe

[Guest]

The problem was that their damage output was disproportionally high compared to their normal counterparts of the same lvl.

But yeah, I think they might have went a bit too far with the nerfs. Maybe they could increase the base lvl of the two highest tier Bounties while leaving the rest as they are right now? Or maybe even add more Bounty tiers?

Edited November 13, 2018 by Guest

[pig666eon]

the problems lye with fortuna needing to be ranked up, not like the rest of the game here if your not a certain level then you wont be doing it. so DE are basically pulling a destiny here and pandering to casuals, maxing out fortuna shouldnt be available to everyone esp the people who are just picking up the game or low level, there is a hole game out there that needs to be played not just fortuna

[DreisterDino]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb Iamabearlulz:

They're not designed to be the ultimate endgame challenge.

 

vor 37 Minuten schrieb FlusteredFerret:

Exactly. Open world areas aren't supposed to be "end game content" for veterans. They're places for everyone to farm resources (and now race K-Drives).

This argument has come up a few times in this thread already.

No one says that the enemies before hotfix have been the ultimate endgame challenge, and i never said i want Fortuna to be Endgame which only Vets can play.

 

Again, i only found the gameplay somewhat engaging and you had to try a bit to get the bonus in some bountytasks.

Still, not one single bounty stage has failed for me (only a bonus lost here and there), so no one can say that it has been something that could be called "Endgame" before patch.

 

And the OP just wanted it to be like it was before, he is not asking for "endgame"

So saying "Fortuna is not supposed to be endgame" is not an argument. Its true, but not a counter argument to what OP is saying.

 

I would be really curious, has there been any post in this forum where someone complained about "bountys failing because enemies are too strong"?

[FlusteredFerret]

31 minutes ago, disco_inferno6 said:

There is freeroam mode for that activity. It's far more effective.

Ok then. How about Bounty 5 in particular having a higher mob level ? Wouldn't that bridge the difference of opinion ?

Good idea actually.

Bounties need to be scaled so newer players can do them too (again for farming, increasing standing etc.) but if the toughest ones now are still too easy, (haven't tried them yet myself), it shouldn't be too much work to add some harder ones. The ones on PoE have up to Level 60 enemies IIRC. Something around that ought to be reasonably challenging.

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by FlusteredFerret

[Nitro747]

2 hours ago, Iamabearlulz said:

To be fair though, the base level Orb Vallis enemies were at least on par with sortie 2. That isn't particularly well balanced, especially with all the enormous AOE and area denial they were throwing out.

... which was exactly what made the Orb Vallis a fun and challenging area?

[Dark_Chroma_Prime]

You can't make something great AGAIN if it haven't been great before

[sleepychewbacca]

While it is understandably frustrating, I can also see new players being thrown too hard if base level mobs are too much for them.

Stacking beacons sounds like a perfect compromise, and yes, it does mean you'd have to find like-minded players to do bounties with a max alert state. 

At the end of the day, we both win. New players get easy content, more-challenge-inclined get an option to do harder runs. 

I don't see how this is too much of a bad thing. 

[DreisterDino]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb sleepychewbacca:

While it is understandably frustrating, I can also see new players being thrown too hard if base level mobs are too much for them.

Stacking beacons sounds like a perfect compromise, and yes, it does mean you'd have to find like-minded players to do bounties with a max alert state. 

At the end of the day, we both win. New players get easy content, more-challenge-inclined get an option to do harder runs. 

I don't see how this is too much of a bad thing. 

Well, this beacon system isnt the best right now.

- alert lvl often simply decreases for no reason even if they are up (hopefully gets fixed)

- make it so that you cant "accidently destroy them", make it so that we have to press "x" on them to remove them (or make us hack them, whatever)

- we have to rely on a system that is barely working right now which is frustating, just read my post about farming Toroids..in 9/10 cases the system simply failed to give us enemies even when we were playing after the rules of this system

- also, i dont like the concept that people that want a challenge have to set up that challenge for themselves always. People always say things like do this or that if you want a challenge, "remove all your mods and play mk1 weapons if you want a challenge" ..."play blindfolded or spin on your chair after each kill until you get dizzy". Afterall, a game should provide a challenge on its own, the players shouldnt make up this challenge with weird workarounds (still, i am doing that on sorties for example already like mentioned)

 

Another question i would ask is "Why do we have 5 different bountys that were supposed to be in different difficulties if every player, no matter how good he is can do them with no problem?" And again, plz post the topic where somebody complained that he wasnt able to finish bounty stage 5 because it has been too hard. Did anybody of you fail a bounty pre-patch?

 

But yes, i would have no problem with it if the first 3 or 4 bountys were easy and only the 5th bounty would provide the gameplay i am looking for.

80% of the Content would be for the people that dont want a challenge and 20% of the Content would be for people that are looking for a slight challenge.

Rewards shouldnt be exclusive to Stage 5 Bounty then, every reward should be obtainable from Stage 4 Bounty aswell.

[pig666eon]

27 minutes ago, sleepychewbacca said:

While it is understandably frustrating, I can also see new players being thrown too hard if base level mobs are too much for them.

Stacking beacons sounds like a perfect compromise, and yes, it does mean you'd have to find like-minded players to do bounties with a max alert state. 

At the end of the day, we both win. New players get easy content, more-challenge-inclined get an option to do harder runs. 

I don't see how this is too much of a bad thing. 

then why cant they stick to the level that they are able to do? why do new players have the need to take on level 60 enemy's?

if your lacking in power then play the game, farm out your mods/ endo/ guns/ frames and come back when your ready, fortuna is just dlc its not its own game which alot of people seem to think so. fortuna is available to everyone right now and the higher end content should be just that... higher end content, why should things be made easier for new players when there is already easy modes to play... it doesnt make sense, as said previously its a destiny move and look at how that turned out

Edited November 13, 2018 by pig666eon

[(XBOX)Clockwork Geoff]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

OV was not advertised as a challenge. The enemies in OV were presented as being a given level. The enemies did not have a damage and CC output that was anywhere close to what their level implied. This was fixed by DE.

Luckily for you, they included a way to up the ante and increase the danger by having a threat level system. This is where the challenge was advertised as being.

They were not "a little" stronger. They were completely out of line given their level.

Yeah exactly - it's just a bounty for the new open world area that is necessary to get some drops.

OP are you suggesting these bounties should only be accessible by hardcore players?

Very silly 

[KommandantViy]

57 minutes ago, pig666eon said:

the problems lye with fortuna needing to be ranked up, not like the rest of the game here if your not a certain level then you wont be doing it. so DE are basically pulling a destiny here and pandering to casuals, maxing out fortuna shouldnt be available to everyone esp the people who are just picking up the game or low level, there is a hole game out there that needs to be played not just fortuna

Except DE have said from the beginning for both PoE and now Fortuna that these open world areas are *not* supposed to be some new meta endgame, and are most certainly not just supposed to be for experienced players.

[(XBOX)Clockwork Geoff]

51 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

 

This argument has come up a few times in this thread already.

No one says that the enemies before hotfix have been the ultimate endgame challenge, and i never said i want Fortuna to be Endgame which only Vets can play.

 

Again, i only found the gameplay somewhat engaging and you had to try a bit to get the bonus in some bountytasks.

Still, not one single bounty stage has failed for me (only a bonus lost here and there), so no one can say that it has been something that could be called "Endgame" before patch.

 

And the OP just wanted it to be like it was before, he is not asking for "endgame"

So saying "Fortuna is not supposed to be endgame" is not an argument. Its true, but not a counter argument to what OP is saying.

 

I would be really curious, has there been any post in this forum where someone complained about "bountys failing because enemies are too strong"?

Ok but what are you asking for then? 

haha you and the OP...basically saying 'we don't want it to be like endgame' 'or too hard for anyone but vets' etc but it's not engaging.

So...what are you arguing about then? Concisely, explain what it is you what.