Let's Talk About The Dojo And How We Can Improve it

[Nezun.Skyfire]

Greetings! I hope this post finds you on a positive note and wish a wonderful day!

As it currently stands there are a lot of things neglected in Warframe, ranging from imbalance to power creep, to lack of enjoyable and rewarding end-game content. Today however I wanted to focus on Dojos, Warframe's 'Guild/Clan Hall' system. While the idea and structure around Dojos seem fine at face value, but there really isn't much point to them once you dive a little deeper.

The Good:
Dojos at heart are an amazing idea--bring players together in an MMO to construct a massive hall to show off your time and dedication to the game, along with getting some sweet weapons and frames. This adds a layer of social activity to clans when there's construction to be done, blueprints to be researched, and just being able to actually see your clan members. On top of that, the dojo is customizable, being able to create and express what you and your clan want within the confines of Warframe's offerings.

The Bad:
Once you've completed your time investment, your clan has fully researched everything, the Dojo looks the way you want it to do there's almost no reason for you to be there. Sure, you can go there and hang out, but how many players actually do that? The most you'll see players in Dojos is to do some trading or pick up blueprints for a frame or weapon they need. There's no incentive to go to your dojo outside of these few things unless you're Role-playing or hosting events (such as a Halloween party/gathering).

Forma. Waaay too much forma is needed in basic room building. Building is already a large resource dump, top it off with some of the weapons needed to research (looking at you Hema). It's really disheartening to see the need of forma for an empty hall way, that leads to another empty hallway (that needed forma to make) in order to make a larger room.

The time gating is pretty unreasonable as well. Yes, there are benefits to seeing your hall be built over time. It feels really good to see your hard work pay off. But does it? It can look grand and wonderful, but at the end of the day, it's not going to be used and/or hardly seen.

The vast majority of weapons and Archwings come from Clan research only. While the push to joining a clan is nice, there are a large portion of players who play solo, or just few a small group of friends. It's punishing for them to have to shoulder the burden of the resource dump. You could argue that "it's for vets who have the resources to dump into," or "You should only get to play if you dedicate yourself to the game!", or "Then just join a clan that has all the research done!" While those are valid and pointed arguments, not everyone has the time to dump dozens of hours into the game a week. As for the last argument I had used as an example, it defeats the purpose of making your own clan with your friends, neglecting a part of the game experience that could be fulfilling in meaningful ways.On top of that, building weapons and frames is a rather large resource dump, then toss in the required resource dump for getting the vast majority of weapons, and you've got a recipe to dishearten players.

The Dojo is cut off from the rest of the game. There's no interaction with the rest of the game for building a Dojo. Sure there's the weapons, frames, and archwings that are 'required' if you want to get your Mastery Rank up, but outside of that there's no reason for a dojo to exist besides showing off one room to players for trading who'll most likely leave after the trade (You also can't explore other clan dojos if no one is in them), making the hard work you put into creating the Dojo unique goes to waste.

Dojo Keys shouldn't exist. XxXRhinoTnks4lyfeXxX can enter Dojos by a simple invite without the need for a key, whereas members need to craft a key to enter their own Dojo? And you can't invite clan mates to the Dojo until their key is made?

The Proposed Ideas/solutions:

I just want to reiterate that Dojos are a good thing, but they can be so much more than just fancy decorations and nearly null trading hubs.

Improve Social Interactions:
Add more customization options for players for Dojos, such as interactive objects, like chairs you can sit in and whatnots. The obstacle course and sparring rooms are a great example of ways you can add gameplay to dojos. Add side-activities into the dojo, like a competitive shooting gallery, ring toss game, or just any number of minor side distractions that can break up the usual grind and pace of the game. Give Dojo Masters/Mods/Which-ever-you-call-them the ability to host events and tournaments where players can add to a pool and have the rewards split.

Remove Forma as a building material for basic rooms and the like. It doesn't do much or make much sense outside of being just another gating mechanic to slow down player progression in construction. Chop down the construction time on rooms, if not flat out remove it. There's a ton of time being poured into gathering the materials already.

Rebalance the required materials for research and the wait time. Waiting three days for a single frame is quite a wait, but waiting nearly half a month is a tad bit overkill. Redistribute some of the weapons into the Marketplace, as it stands, more and more weapons are being added to the Dojo research table and the need for a Clan and Dojo are becoming more and more necessary. It punishes newer players/clans to a staggering and unbelievable level with each new addition.

Add the Dojo to the universe of Warframe. The Tenno are known to be large in number with the current story and lore, so it begs to ask why there isn't much of a Tenno presence in the Warframe universe? One way to address this is to give Clans a new planet with an interior and exterior on the Starchart that's interactable with the on-going faction wars. You could have sieges from different factions occasionally occur much like the Relay sieges, except instead of having it happen in space, it is ground/aerial based that incorporates the different mission types. For the infested (or any of the factions, really), you could start with a defense mission that ramps up in difficulty over time like a survival mission (could add in varying starting points for vets to jump in, like Arbitrations, but harder), then changes into a Hive mission, followed by an Assassination mission, then an Exterminate mission to clean up the remaining forces. Visually can have a bunch of infected goo spawn on the ground/sides of the dojo to make it look like you're under siege, or use the snow/frost technology from Orb Vails cover objects outside in infested flesh temporarily. For the Corpus and Grineer, you can have their respective styled siege equipment spawn in--airships (make use of the archwings), new cover/shield based deployable equipment, long-range attack turrets (miniguns/AA Batteries from Plains, and make Corpus/infested versions that are unique to that faction). There's a bunch of stuff you can do to the dojos that use currently existing tech to make the gameplay experience all the better.

To make the previous wall of text actually mean something, add in a lose condition. Make the stakes high enough to have players actually want to invest the effort into protecting their Dojo. Like say have parts of the Dojo inaccessible and need repairs that need a lot more resources than if you successfully repel the attack. Could also set it up like how Relay sieges are and you have a set time to repel the forces (gives you replayable content). Add in clan-wide benefits for successfully repelling an attack--a three-day buff of X damage increase and damage resistance from the attack faction as an example.

Swinging back to the social interactions for a moment-- the newly proposed planet could show nodes for the Clans in your Alliance. Now, this might not fly well with some players but put a cap on the number of Clans you can have in an Alliance. This way you can set a reasonable number of Nodes on the planet that allows you to freely move between clan nodes. You could even incorporate Plains/Orb Valis tech and have connecting junctions so you can visit other clans without having to head back to your ship. You could even add in a system that allows Clans to team up and help each other fight off an invading faction.

Now, the rewards for this is debatable, but there should be really good rewards for repelling these proposed invasions (Like say a potato, credits, and some form of rare resource that you can only get from the invasions like the Arbitration's Vitus Essence, Nitain, or fully ranked Arcanes as examples).

And last but not least, Dojo Keys. If we are to keep the Keys as a part of the Dojo system, their build times should be nerfed to a few minutes. (Like say long enough to complete a mission or two). Also, extend the ability to invite new Clan members into the Dojo much like how we can invite random players to the dojo.

 

I thank-you very much if you made it to the end of this post, it's not exactly a short read. I would really like to hear feedback about this. What are your thoughts and ideas on ways we can improve the Dojo and Clan systems? Let me know in the comments and we can hopefully have a civil discussion about what you have to say.

[Kaos1227]

Don't really have much to say other then I like the idea and that a lot of the game play stuff you are referring to for the different clan nodes and moving between them sounds almost exactly what the devs are trying to do with Railjack. If they do end up removing the forma cost for crafting what happens to the clans that have already built rooms with forma? how would they get refunded because if you are at the point where you have a lot of rooms in your dojo then you already have any/all of the research that needs forma to research. And as such the forma would sit in the clan vault and not be used for anything unless you can toss up some of the stored resources for the reward for clan events( first thing I thought of that it could be used for.)  I agree with the clan key points that you raised.  I would love more multi stage missions like the kuva assault just not sure off the top of my head how to flip it to the defenders PoV. Rather then have a damage buff for winning it could be that you can get a chunk of that faction resource, like large quantity's of ferrite or rubedo from the grineer with a detonite injector or two as the top tier (took the least damage during the event or took under a certain time to complete it, something like that) reward.

That is my rambling wall of text, enjoy.
Kaos1227

[peterc3]

29 minutes ago, Nezun.Skyfire said:

Dojo Keys shouldn't exist. XxXRhinoTnks4lyfeXxX can enter Dojos by a simple invite without the need for a key, whereas members need to craft a key to enter their own Dojo? And you can't invite clan mates to the Dojo until their key is made?

The key is to stop people from hopping Clans and hoovering Clan research.

[Nezun.Skyfire]

7 minutes ago, Kaos1227 said:

Don't really have much to say other then I like the idea and that a lot of the game play stuff you are referring to for the different clan nodes and moving between them sounds almost exactly what the devs are trying to do with Railjack. If they do end up removing the forma cost for crafting what happens to the clans that have already built rooms with forma? how would they get refunded because if you are at the point where you have a lot of rooms in your dojo then you already have any/all of the research that needs forma to research. And as such the forma would sit in the clan vault and not be used for anything unless you can toss up some of the stored resources for the reward for clan events( first thing I thought of that it could be used for.)  I agree with the clan key points that you raised.  I would love more multi stage missions like the kuva assault just not sure off the top of my head how to flip it to the defenders PoV. Rather then have a damage buff for winning it could be that you can get a chunk of that faction resource, like large quantity's of ferrite or rubedo from the grineer with a detonite injector or two as the top tier (took the least damage during the event or took under a certain time to complete it, something like that) reward.

That is my rambling wall of text, enjoy.
Kaos1227

Glad you agree with a few of my points! As for the forma refunding, that's actually a pretty interesting way to go about refunding clans. Since Forma are non-tradable items, I think if they added in say a temporary coupon or tradeable item that you can use to give back to the players who've invested the forma, or use it as you said in the pool of prizes for clan activities.

I think having the resources as a reward for a successful repel and how well you do is a good addition. Maybe have a massive influx of resources get stored into the Clan's vault and make it so clan members can withdraw resources if they meet a rank requirement?

[Nezun.Skyfire]

2 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

The key is to stop people from hopping Clans and hoovering Clan research.

There are still workarounds for that. You can have someone invite you to the Dojo, invite you to the Clan, grab the research, and then leave the Clan afterward. Which is why I brought up the topic of rebalancing the amount of time and resources for researching for smaller clans.

 

35 minutes ago, Nezun.Skyfire said:

On top of that, building weapons and frames is a rather large resource dump, then toss in the required resource dump for getting the vast majority of weapons, and you've got a recipe to dishearten players.

 

35 minutes ago, Nezun.Skyfire said:

Rebalance the required materials for research and the wait time. Waiting three days for a single frame is quite a wait, but waiting nearly half a month is a tad bit overkill. Redistribute some of the weapons into the Marketplace, as it stands, more and more weapons are being added to the Dojo research table and the need for a Clan and Dojo are becoming more and more necessary. It punishes newer players/clans to a staggering and unbelievable level with each new addition.

 

[Guinylen]

I'd like to spend a lot of time decorating my Dojo, how we decorate it is such a pain in the ass at the moment. Maybe it feels okay from a graphics designer's standpoint, but it's extremely painful just thinking about the whereness on where to place an object. They should learn from Minecraft's and Habbo's object placing mechanics. 

[(PSN)meow121325]

i am in Iflynns PS4 clan and i tend to hop into the dojo when i am bored and whenever i hop in it seems dead i love the look of the dojo but if i cant enjoy company because it is a dead feature then why would i hop into my dojo ever again unless for trading or research (we still need the hema) and i have been doing derelect to get it and but i feel the uselessness of dojos besides hopping in for lets say nezha parts or volt and the occasional trade i love your proposed idea for i would enjoy it because just having the ability to potentialy be in a large ass turret and shooting airships is #*!%ing amazing and having the dojo bussle with activity because a siege is going on would make me enjoy the look of the dojo more with clan mates 

[Nezun.Skyfire]

7 hours ago, Guinylen said:

I'd like to spend a lot of time decorating my Dojo, how we decorate it is such a pain in the ass at the moment. Maybe it feels okay from a graphics designer's standpoint, but it's extremely painful just thinking about the whereness on where to place an object. They should learn from Minecraft's and Habbo's object placing mechanics. 

Having a QoL fix for placing objects would be a wonderful addition as well. Heck, even placing objects in your Orbiter can be a pain.

[Nezun.Skyfire]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)meow121325 said:

i am in Iflynns PS4 clan and i tend to hop into the dojo when i am bored and whenever i hop in it seems dead i love the look of the dojo but if i cant enjoy company because it is a dead feature then why would i hop into my dojo ever again unless for trading or research (we still need the hema) and i have been doing derelect to get it and but i feel the uselessness of dojos besides hopping in for lets say nezha parts or volt and the occasional trade i love your proposed idea for i would enjoy it because just having the ability to potentialy be in a large ass turret and shooting airships is #*!%ing amazing and having the dojo bussle with activity because a siege is going on would make me enjoy the look of the dojo more with clan mates 

You could also add in functional objects like defenses and crank the waves/difficulty up to 10. That way you can have your Dojo look badass as hell, and functional as well.

[-_Highlander_-]

@Nezun.Skyfire

Thats quite an story you made there ... Big compliments on it

-- My hope on improvements

- Building decorations .. Camera aim and place . this is ridiculous .. Lock the item when you are 15 m away don't redraw it .. it pulls the item back towards the camera what gives more stress to reposition the specific deco it flips to every corner and you never get an good look at how the deco will be placed

- Boundrys .. this causes to mess up some alignments with the previous or next items you have placed .. snapping tool could be improved

- Camera speed direction .. Well i can tell you that this is way to fast for building dojo's .. it should have some reduction option to slow down the camera speed

that flys thru the room with an couple sec from a - b .. slow it down with -x10 -x8 -x5 -x2 -x0.5 ) <-- example

- Message,Events,Alerts .. We need some boards that can show us the same thing as in the ship we have .. 

- Portals .. Making transportation an ease . Instead of going everytime to the ship then go to Navigation then select mission .. Well this can be quicker

just add the same thing to the dojo

- Completed foundry items .. Only if you could claim your builded foundry items in the Dojo then iam fine with it . don't wanna fly from a to b constantly 

- Make Dojo as an main spawn .. normal when you login you go to your ship .. but what if you go to the Dojo first then you can decide to go to your ship from 1 of the doors

like can combined relay

---- Ok so far my idea's i hope this is an ok content  ----

[Klokwerkaos]

12 hours ago, Nezun.Skyfire said:

Greetings! I hope this post finds you on a positive note and wish a wonderful day!

As it currently stands there are a lot of things neglected in Warframe, ranging from imbalance to power creep, to lack of enjoyable and rewarding end-game content. Today however I wanted to focus on Dojos, Warframe's 'Guild/Clan Hall' system. While the idea and structure around Dojos seem fine at face value, but there really isn't much point to them once you dive a little deeper.

The Good:
Dojos at heart are an amazing idea--bring players together in an MMO to construct a massive hall to show off your time and dedication to the game, along with getting some sweet weapons and frames. This adds a layer of social activity to clans when there's construction to be done, blueprints to be researched, and just being able to actually see your clan members. On top of that, the dojo is customizable, being able to create and express what you and your clan want within the confines of Warframe's offerings.

The Bad:
Once you've completed your time investment, your clan has fully researched everything, the Dojo looks the way you want it to do there's almost no reason for you to be there. Sure, you can go there and hang out, but how many players actually do that? The most you'll see players in Dojos is to do some trading or pick up blueprints for a frame or weapon they need. There's no incentive to go to your dojo outside of these few things unless you're Role-playing or hosting events (such as a Halloween party/gathering).

Forma. Waaay too much forma is needed in basic room building. Building is already a large resource dump, top it off with some of the weapons needed to research (looking at you Hema). It's really disheartening to see the need of forma for an empty hall way, that leads to another empty hallway (that needed forma to make) in order to make a larger room.

The time gating is pretty unreasonable as well. Yes, there are benefits to seeing your hall be built over time. It feels really good to see your hard work pay off. But does it? It can look grand and wonderful, but at the end of the day, it's not going to be used and/or hardly seen.

The vast majority of weapons and Archwings come from Clan research only. While the push to joining a clan is nice, there are a large portion of players who play solo, or just few a small group of friends. It's punishing for them to have to shoulder the burden of the resource dump. You could argue that "it's for vets who have the resources to dump into," or "You should only get to play if you dedicate yourself to the game!", or "Then just join a clan that has all the research done!" While those are valid and pointed arguments, not everyone has the time to dump dozens of hours into the game a week. As for the last argument I had used as an example, it defeats the purpose of making your own clan with your friends, neglecting a part of the game experience that could be fulfilling in meaningful ways.On top of that, building weapons and frames is a rather large resource dump, then toss in the required resource dump for getting the vast majority of weapons, and you've got a recipe to dishearten players.

The Dojo is cut off from the rest of the game. There's no interaction with the rest of the game for building a Dojo. Sure there's the weapons, frames, and archwings that are 'required' if you want to get your Mastery Rank up, but outside of that there's no reason for a dojo to exist besides showing off one room to players for trading who'll most likely leave after the trade (You also can't explore other clan dojos if no one is in them), making the hard work you put into creating the Dojo unique goes to waste.

Dojo Keys shouldn't exist. XxXRhinoTnks4lyfeXxX can enter Dojos by a simple invite without the need for a key, whereas members need to craft a key to enter their own Dojo? And you can't invite clan mates to the Dojo until their key is made?

The Proposed Ideas/solutions:

I just want to reiterate that Dojos are a good thing, but they can be so much more than just fancy decorations and nearly null trading hubs.

Improve Social Interactions:
Add more customization options for players for Dojos, such as interactive objects, like chairs you can sit in and whatnots. The obstacle course and sparring rooms are a great example of ways you can add gameplay to dojos. Add side-activities into the dojo, like a competitive shooting gallery, ring toss game, or just any number of minor side distractions that can break up the usual grind and pace of the game. Give Dojo Masters/Mods/Which-ever-you-call-them the ability to host events and tournaments where players can add to a pool and have the rewards split.

Remove Forma as a building material for basic rooms and the like. It doesn't do much or make much sense outside of being just another gating mechanic to slow down player progression in construction. Chop down the construction time on rooms, if not flat out remove it. There's a ton of time being poured into gathering the materials already.

Rebalance the required materials for research and the wait time. Waiting three days for a single frame is quite a wait, but waiting nearly half a month is a tad bit overkill. Redistribute some of the weapons into the Marketplace, as it stands, more and more weapons are being added to the Dojo research table and the need for a Clan and Dojo are becoming more and more necessary. It punishes newer players/clans to a staggering and unbelievable level with each new addition.

Add the Dojo to the universe of Warframe. The Tenno are known to be large in number with the current story and lore, so it begs to ask why there isn't much of a Tenno presence in the Warframe universe? One way to address this is to give Clans a new planet with an interior and exterior on the Starchart that's interactable with the on-going faction wars. You could have sieges from different factions occasionally occur much like the Relay sieges, except instead of having it happen in space, it is ground/aerial based that incorporates the different mission types. For the infested (or any of the factions, really), you could start with a defense mission that ramps up in difficulty over time like a survival mission (could add in varying starting points for vets to jump in, like Arbitrations, but harder), then changes into a Hive mission, followed by an Assassination mission, then an Exterminate mission to clean up the remaining forces. Visually can have a bunch of infected goo spawn on the ground/sides of the dojo to make it look like you're under siege, or use the snow/frost technology from Orb Vails cover objects outside in infested flesh temporarily. For the Corpus and Grineer, you can have their respective styled siege equipment spawn in--airships (make use of the archwings), new cover/shield based deployable equipment, long-range attack turrets (miniguns/AA Batteries from Plains, and make Corpus/infested versions that are unique to that faction). There's a bunch of stuff you can do to the dojos that use currently existing tech to make the gameplay experience all the better.

To make the previous wall of text actually mean something, add in a lose condition. Make the stakes high enough to have players actually want to invest the effort into protecting their Dojo. Like say have parts of the Dojo inaccessible and need repairs that need a lot more resources than if you successfully repel the attack. Could also set it up like how Relay sieges are and you have a set time to repel the forces (gives you replayable content). Add in clan-wide benefits for successfully repelling an attack--a three-day buff of X damage increase and damage resistance from the attack faction as an example.

Swinging back to the social interactions for a moment-- the newly proposed planet could show nodes for the Clans in your Alliance. Now, this might not fly well with some players but put a cap on the number of Clans you can have in an Alliance. This way you can set a reasonable number of Nodes on the planet that allows you to freely move between clan nodes. You could even incorporate Plains/Orb Valis tech and have connecting junctions so you can visit other clans without having to head back to your ship. You could even add in a system that allows Clans to team up and help each other fight off an invading faction.

Now, the rewards for this is debatable, but there should be really good rewards for repelling these proposed invasions (Like say a potato, credits, and some form of rare resource that you can only get from the invasions like the Arbitration's Vitus Essence, Nitain, or fully ranked Arcanes as examples).

And last but not least, Dojo Keys. If we are to keep the Keys as a part of the Dojo system, their build times should be nerfed to a few minutes. (Like say long enough to complete a mission or two). Also, extend the ability to invite new Clan members into the Dojo much like how we can invite random players to the dojo.

 

I thank-you very much if you made it to the end of this post, it's not exactly a short read. I would really like to hear feedback about this. What are your thoughts and ideas on ways we can improve the Dojo and Clan systems? Let me know in the comments and we can hopefully have a civil discussion about what you have to say.

I will add dojo keys do serve a purpose so as not to exploit certain things, i won't say what because they can still technically be exploited but it's a stop gap to prevent that exploit.

I also don't agree weapons should be moved to market.  This is a bad call as it ruins investment for all long time supporters of the game.

I agree a lot of things can be done to improve dojos, but this isn't something great.  I've done dojo feedback before ad infinitum, so it's not vallid to say I'm criticizing without offering solutions because I have, repeatedly.  Some of the things I mentioned have since made it in game, some have not.  I don't propose it's my thoughts that made DE do something, but that I have at least had similar thoughts to what the devs have put in game.

[Alejandrokek]

hace 21 horas, peterc3 dijo:

The key is to stop people from hopping Clans and hoovering Clan research.

You can solve that with hyerarchies, the admins of the clan should have control over the lab and what players have access to it.

[Nezun.Skyfire]

11 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

I will add dojo keys do serve a purpose so as not to exploit certain things, i won't say what because they can still technically be exploited but it's a stop gap to prevent that exploit.

I also don't agree weapons should be moved to market.  This is a bad call as it ruins investment for all long time supporters of the game.

I agree a lot of things can be done to improve dojos, but this isn't something great.  I've done dojo feedback before ad infinitum, so it's not vallid to say I'm criticizing without offering solutions because I have, repeatedly.  Some of the things I mentioned have since made it in game, some have not.  I don't propose it's my thoughts that made DE do something, but that I have at least had similar thoughts to what the devs have put in game.

If there is an exploit, shouldn't DE know of this and have it patched out?

How does it ruin the investment for all long-term supporters of the game? Chances are that long-term supporters have already burned through the Research Labs. I see where you're coming from, and I do respect vets of the game for sticking through thick and thin. I don't mean move say 80% of everything from the Research Labs, but to distribute it out all more evenly to help elevate newer players and clans.

May I see your feedback? I'm curious and would love to read what you've suggested as well.

I'm also curious as to why you think my suggestions aren't that great. Is there something in particular that stands out?

Edited December 19, 2018 by Nezun.Skyfire

[Nezun.Skyfire]

14 hours ago, -_Highlander_- said:

@Nezun.Skyfire

Thats quite an story you made there ... Big compliments on it

-- My hope on improvements

- Building decorations .. Camera aim and place . this is ridiculous .. Lock the item when you are 15 m away don't redraw it .. it pulls the item back towards the camera what gives more stress to reposition the specific deco it flips to every corner and you never get an good look at how the deco will be placed

- Boundrys .. this causes to mess up some alignments with the previous or next items you have placed .. snapping tool could be improved

- Camera speed direction .. Well i can tell you that this is way to fast for building dojo's .. it should have some reduction option to slow down the camera speed

that flys thru the room with an couple sec from a - b .. slow it down with -x10 -x8 -x5 -x2 -x0.5 ) <-- example

- Message,Events,Alerts .. We need some boards that can show us the same thing as in the ship we have .. 

- Portals .. Making transportation an ease . Instead of going everytime to the ship then go to Navigation then select mission .. Well this can be quicker

just add the same thing to the dojo

- Completed foundry items .. Only if you could claim your builded foundry items in the Dojo then iam fine with it . don't wanna fly from a to b constantly 

- Make Dojo as an main spawn .. normal when you login you go to your ship .. but what if you go to the Dojo first then you can decide to go to your ship from 1 of the doors

like can combined relay

---- Ok so far my idea's i hope this is an ok content  ----

These sound like interesting additions. For the most part, I can see there is a use for these ideas, except for the Portals idea, as there are teleportation pads you can build for quick travel throughout your dojo. 🙂

[-_Highlander_-]

10 minutes ago, Nezun.Skyfire said:

These sound like interesting additions. For the most part, I can see there is a use for these ideas, except for the Portals idea, as there are teleportation pads you can build for quick travel throughout your dojo. 🙂

Yes those portal idea is more from the relay .. adding those pads to the dojo 😁

and thank you for reading my comment im realy happy to see someone likes it .. but yeah you right on the portals ..

we need Navigation pads . if this is the correct word for it .. iam sure iam gonna used it more in the dojo then in my ship . getting the feeling of clausterfobic if iam staying to long in an small compartment .. how much i respect the ship .. if you come home you open an door and say hello .. Dojo has the same feeling .. loading into my ship is more like .. when do i run out of fuel and crash

[(PSN)FadedSpirit]

I think you have some good ideas, but the number one thing I want is to not have to destroy rooms to redesign the dojo. It would be nice if you could just enter a menu and move rooms around in the map to redesign as long as you have the correct permissions. Especially with some of the detailed decoration work that people put in having to destroy rooms and build them elsewhere is very annoying. I've done my best to design my dojo to be able to expand when necessary but you never know what kind of rooms they will put in, potentially forcing you to have to tediously redesign the while layout.

 

Also the attacks on the dojo could be cool but I can see them being kind of annoying too. I only have two people in my dojo including me and decorating is already very resource draining. I would not be very pleased if I had to dump in even more resources just to repair things. Also with school and work I'm not always able to play every day, would these attacks still be able to happen when I'm not playing? It would be annoying to have to repair stuff when I wasn't even on to defend from an attack. I think it would definitely have to be tailored to dojo size to be fair to people that have smaller dojos.

[Nezun.Skyfire]

34 minutes ago, (PS4)FadedSpirit said:

I think you have some good ideas, but the number one thing I want is to not have to destroy rooms to redesign the dojo. It would be nice if you could just enter a menu and move rooms around in the map to redesign as long as you have the correct permissions. Especially with some of the detailed decoration work that people put in having to destroy rooms and build them elsewhere is very annoying. I've done my best to design my dojo to be able to expand when necessary but you never know what kind of rooms they will put in, potentially forcing you to have to tediously redesign the while layout.

 

Also the attacks on the dojo could be cool but I can see them being kind of annoying too. I only have two people in my dojo including me and decorating is already very resource draining. I would not be very pleased if I had to dump in even more resources just to repair things. Also with school and work I'm not always able to play every day, would these attacks still be able to happen when I'm not playing? It would be annoying to have to repair stuff when I wasn't even on to defend from an attack. I think it would definitely have to be tailored to dojo size to be fair to people that have smaller dojos.

I thought about the smaller clans after I posted it. An idea I was thinking that the sieges would occur to Clans either Shadow or higher. Or if it occurred to Ghost clans, it would be scaled back to compensate for the smaller clan size. That way you could still partake and reap the gameplay rewards and experiences. Someone had pointed out a good reward to the winning loot table was a large chunk of that faction's resources, that way you could benefit from the sieges instead of it being a just a massive resource sink and nothing else.

On 2018-12-17 at 10:08 PM, Kaos1227 said:

Rather then have a damage buff for winning it could be that you can get a chunk of that faction resource, like large quantity's of ferrite or rubedo from the grineer with a detonite injector or two as the top tier (took the least damage during the event or took under a certain time to complete it, something like that) reward.

 

To add on what you said about being able to move about rooms would be great. Another idea I later thought of was that during the release of the newly proposed planet, Clans who have invested into their current Dojo get to 'relocate'. They could have a 'vault' of resources refunded per room (at a 1:1 build cost ration to the clan's size) the Dojo has made so they can reestablish a new footing, along with having all prebuild objects placed in the Dojo placed into a storage so that Clan members of appropriate rank could access them after the relocation and being building without having to rebuild everything they put into their old Hall.

EDIT:
As for when the sieges occur, it'd take place like when the Corpus Razorback Invasion of Relays, or the Grineer Fomorian Invasion, as in the event would trigger and you would have several days to fend off the attack.

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Nezun.Skyfire

[Klokwerkaos]

5 hours ago, Nezun.Skyfire said:

May I see your feedback? I'm curious and would love to read what you've suggested as well.
 

I'm not sure where those threads are but they are public, plus I've made videos on it in the past that are available on youtube as well about fixes, but very few suggestions because fixes tend to be more important so it's not broken.  What I can say is that what we have promised to come with kingpin and railjack are things that look a lot like the ideas I pitched on paper at the time.  I've also done other things like suggested how to make each type of mission more engaging.

 

5 hours ago, Nezun.Skyfire said:

I'm also curious as to why you think my suggestions aren't that great. Is there something in particular that stands out?

5 hours ago, Nezun.Skyfire said:

If there is an exploit, shouldn't DE know of this and have it patched out?

I'm positive they already know about it and that's why that exists.  What I'm not going to do is explain the exploit here as that is something that got noobshowtech banned recently from the game.  They have it there for a reason, that's all I'm willing to say.

17 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

Forma. Waaay too much forma is needed in basic room building. Building is already a large resource dump, top it off with some of the weapons needed to research (looking at you Hema). It's really disheartening to see the need of forma for an empty hall way, that leads to another empty hallway (that needed forma to make) in order to make a larger room.

This investment is fine.  If you don't have the resources it's because you haven't done enough grinding for them and you're trying to overextend your reach as a player.  Having an amazingly decorated and huge dojo isn't something that most people can or should do.  Forma is actually the least bit of the balance problems with resources.  They are fine at level 1 and 2, but stupidly overpriced at 3 and 4 tiers.  This is because no matter how big your clan is, it's always the same 5 or 10 people that farm to build the dojo and nobody else.  Sometimes people with super high MR join and do a nice resource dump, but really forma takes nearly no investment, 35p for three, that's about 20 minish of proper farming.  Plastids and oxium on the other hand... to build a room out nice and to capacity is going to cost literally millions of those among other things, and that's going to take many, many hours even with the most min/maxed possible coordinated loot group, I would know.  I'm lucky if I can build out a room a week, that's a lot.  Also if you think hema is bad, wait till you do condrocs for tower.  Worst farm in the game hands down and makes hema look like a cakewalk.
 

17 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

Add the Dojo to the universe of Warframe. The Tenno are known to be large in number with the current story and lore, so it begs to ask why there isn't much of a Tenno presence in the Warframe universe? One way to address this is to give Clans a new planet with an interior and exterior on the Starchart that's interactable with the on-going faction wars. You could have sieges from different factions occasionally occur much like the Relay sieges, except instead of having it happen in space, it is ground/aerial based that incorporates the different mission types. For the infested (or any of the factions, really), you could start with a defense mission that ramps up in difficulty over time like a survival mission (could add in varying starting points for vets to jump in, like Arbitrations, but harder), then changes into a Hive mission, followed by an Assassination mission, then an Exterminate mission to clean up the remaining forces. Visually can have a bunch of infected goo spawn on the ground/sides of the dojo to make it look like you're under siege, or use the snow/frost technology from Orb Vails cover objects outside in infested flesh temporarily. For the Corpus and Grineer, you can have their respective styled siege equipment spawn in--airships (make use of the archwings), new cover/shield based deployable equipment, long-range attack turrets (miniguns/AA Batteries from Plains, and make Corpus/infested versions that are unique to that faction). There's a bunch of stuff you can do to the dojos that use currently existing tech to make the gameplay experience all the better.

This is really disjointed and doesn't make a clear case for why it should exist other than you think it's cool.  That's justifiable to you, but not anyone that doesn't find that cool.  Really we need sustainable content in the form of something like raids and rails again, not those because they had serious issues, but they were at least fun and engaging clan-ish content.

I would say your ideas are "on the right track"  increase of content for clans is desirable.  Increased social aspects is desirable.  The way you've gone about doing it I think is incredibly suboptimal as far as potential implementation goes.

Keep your wishlist small and based on things that are already there.  Adjust those.  Adding huge behomoth updates based on some forum rambling isn't likely to ever happen.  I appreciate you bringing attention to the issues though, so don't think this is me hating on you or your ideas, I just don't see them as remotely viable for implementation any time in the next bajillion patches for a wide variety of reasons.

Primarily because DE has their own pet projects and methodology and projects they want to bring to the table with already overextended man power (I'm assuming this is the case since it's the best possible excuse for the issues the game has long been having, not just with dojos, but with endgame and vet content in general).  Make no mistake, dojos are an endgame aspiration.  Yes you can do it whenever, but it's a dumb idea to do it before you have millions of resources and credits, tons of forma, and plenty of 1000s of plat to burn.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[moonofchaos]

For me i feel like they could include some of the sidecontent into the dojos. They could make rooms for wyrmius, frame fighter and happy zephyr where people could observe you playing it and have highscore boards that makes you compete with your other clan members. 

I would also like a kubrow and kavat room where you can send your kubrows instead of just killing them in your ship. once they are donated to the clan you could still interact with them but not use them for missions.

A quality of life thing for decorating would ofcourse be a "contribute to all decorations in room" option when you donate resources so that decorating wont be as annoying. It would also be pretty cool if decorating actually rewarded you with some new decorations or cosmetics for the dojo or your own ship. That way more players would feel invested into actually doing it. 

A docking hall would also be nice where clanmembers can enter your ship and see your ship decorations without you having to host and invite them. It will probably never happen but i could see that being a nice addition if it did. 

Otherwise we just have to wait and hope that the kingpin system the devs have been talking about is coming. 

[GrayArchon]

I too love the idea of Dojos and wish they were utilised more in Warframe. That being said, here are my thoughts:

21 hours ago, Nezun.Skyfire said:

Forma. Waaay too much forma is needed in basic room building. Building is already a large resource dump, top it off with some of the weapons needed to research (looking at you Hema). It's really disheartening to see the need of forma for an empty hall way, that leads to another empty hallway (that needed forma to make) in order to make a larger room.

A dojo is supposed to be a large-scale investment. It's an entire space station you build with your friends. I think the forma (and other resources) is fine. I built my entire dojo (and funded the research) myself over a period of years, and I think that's how it's supposed to go. DE has always shown hesitation (on-camera, even) to make dojos easy for solo players to complete, and I think that's pretty reasonable. Besides, forma isn't the rarest resource in the game. It's fairly common; it just takes time to make.

22 hours ago, Nezun.Skyfire said:

The time gating is pretty unreasonable as well. Yes, there are benefits to seeing your hall be built over time. It feels really good to see your hard work pay off. But does it? It can look grand and wonderful, but at the end of the day, it's not going to be used and/or hardly seen.

Same as before. I think to dojo is a large enough item that it merits a huge time sink. And it's not even that much. Last month I had to completely destroy my dojo and rebuild it, thanks to the annoying way the architecture is coded (can we fix THAT, please?), and it took about a week. I still think that's fine. And the fact that no one hangs around the dojo long enough to see it doesn't really count as a reason to remove the build time, since any reasonable dojo overhaul would ideally create reasons for players to stay in the dojo and interact with it – thus justifying an investment of time and resources to build such a space.

22 hours ago, Nezun.Skyfire said:

The vast majority of weapons and Archwings come from Clan research only.

The vast majority??? This is definitely way off. For primaries, it's roughly 30%, and I assume the proportion is roughly equivalent for all other weapon types. That's far from "the vast majority". The fact that a sizable percentage of the game is limited to clans says to me that DE wants to ensure clans are relevant to the general game experience. And with a game this size, there are so many options that it's not much of a hindrance. You want a clan that's active and does a lot of high-level content? There are plenty of those. You just want to grab some blueprints and not interact with anyone else? I'm sure there are clans that would accommodate you – at the very least my clan will.

On 2018-12-17 at 5:19 PM, Nezun.Skyfire said:

The Dojo is cut off from the rest of the game. There's no interaction with the rest of the game for building a Dojo. Sure there's the weapons, frames, and archwings that are 'required' if you want to get your Mastery Rank up, but outside of that there's no reason for a dojo to exist besides showing off one room to players for trading who'll most likely leave after the trade (You also can't explore other clan dojos if no one is in them), making the hard work you put into creating the Dojo unique goes to waste.

I agree that this should be remedied, but I'm not quite sure how.

On 2018-12-17 at 5:19 PM, Nezun.Skyfire said:

Add more customization options for players for Dojos, such as interactive objects, like chairs you can sit in and whatnots. The obstacle course and sparring rooms are a great example of ways you can add gameplay to dojos. Add side-activities into the dojo, like a competitive shooting gallery, ring toss game, or just any number of minor side distractions that can break up the usual grind and pace of the game. Give Dojo Masters/Mods/Which-ever-you-call-them the ability to host events and tournaments where players can add to a pool and have the rewards split.

Yes. 100%. Totally agree. I think they are moving in this direction, with the new(ish) custom obstacle courses and the upcoming k-drive obstacle courses.

On 2018-12-17 at 5:19 PM, Nezun.Skyfire said:

Add the Dojo to the universe of Warframe. The Tenno are known to be large in number with the current story and lore, so it begs to ask why there isn't much of a Tenno presence in the Warframe universe?

The Tenno are not large in number. There are comparatively few of them, in the scale of the entire Origin System. That's why all we do is "keep the balance"; despite how overwhelmingly powerful we are, we're not very many. There are billions of Grineer, with more being cloned every second. Corpus facilities can crank out robotic proxies by the thousands. There are probably more Ostrons than there are Tenno (given that Ostrons are a fairly populous space-faring race of merchants). The Tenno are strong enough to tip the scales, but generally not affect large-scale change. That's why the Origin System hasn't really changed so much since we awoke (except for Lua returning to real-space and the Sentients waking up).

On 2018-12-17 at 5:19 PM, Nezun.Skyfire said:

One way to address this is to give Clans a new planet with an interior and exterior on the Starchart that's interactable with the on-going faction wars. You could have sieges from different factions occasionally occur much like the Relay sieges, except instead of having it happen in space, it is ground/aerial based that incorporates the different mission types. For the infested (or any of the factions, really), you could start with a defense mission that ramps up in difficulty over time like a survival mission (could add in varying starting points for vets to jump in, like Arbitrations, but harder), then changes into a Hive mission, followed by an Assassination mission, then an Exterminate mission to clean up the remaining forces. Visually can have a bunch of infected goo spawn on the ground/sides of the dojo to make it look like you're under siege, or use the snow/frost technology from Orb Vails cover objects outside in infested flesh temporarily. For the Corpus and Grineer, you can have their respective styled siege equipment spawn in--airships (make use of the archwings), new cover/shield based deployable equipment, long-range attack turrets (miniguns/AA Batteries from Plains, and make Corpus/infested versions that are unique to that faction). There's a bunch of stuff you can do to the dojos that use currently existing tech to make the gameplay experience all the better.

I disagree with this completely. Dojos should not be battle-spaces. They represent a completely different part of the game, but most importantly, the dojos are hidden. If the Grineer or Corpus knew the Tenno's base of operations, they would bring their whole armadas to bear and wipe them out. Look what they did to our Relays in Eyes of Blight. Again, the Tenno aren't strong enough to engage the major factions in an all-out assault, especially at the clan level.

[Dabnician]

On 2018-12-17 at 8:19 PM, Nezun.Skyfire said:

Once you've completed your time investment, your clan has fully researched everything, the Dojo looks the way you want it to do there's almost no reason for you to be there. Sure, you can go there and hang out, but how many players actually do that? The most you'll see players in Dojos is to do some trading or pick up blueprints for a frame or weapon they need. There's no incentive to go to your dojo outside of these few things unless you're Role-playing or hosting events (such as a Halloween party/gathering).

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1025429-suggestion-allow-clans-to-rent-dedicated-servers-for-game-play-sessions-spoilers/

tl;dr: Let me rent dedicated servers which require a room in my dojo to start

But thats a stupid suggestion because then my dojo would actually be useful 😛

 

 

 

[Nezun.Skyfire]

42 minutes ago, GrayArchon said:

A dojo is supposed to be a large-scale investment. It's an entire space station you build with your friends. I think the forma (and other resources) is fine. I built my entire dojo (and funded the research) myself over a period of years, and I think that's how it's supposed to go. DE has always shown hesitation (on-camera, even) to make dojos easy for solo players to complete, and I think that's pretty reasonable. Besides, forma isn't the rarest resource in the game. It's fairly common; it just takes time to make.

Now that I've had time to sit on my suggestion and hearing feedback (I've been talking to people over Discord about it as well) I can understand where you're coming from. I like that for solo players it should be hard to get a dojo up and running, this is an MMO after all and Dojos are meant to be a social part of the game. But for the smaller dojos, it's still a massive hurdle to jump, more so for newer players and clans. It's sort of a double-edged sword--on one hand, you've got this large over-arching project that you and your friends/clan mates have something to continuously strive towards. On the other, it's a massive undertaking and very off-putting, which will more than likely scare off players from starting their own clan as the hurdle is set really high.

57 minutes ago, GrayArchon said:

Same as before. I think to dojo is a large enough item that it merits a huge time sink. And it's not even that much. Last month I had to completely destroy my dojo and rebuild it, thanks to the annoying way the architecture is coded (can we fix THAT, please?), and it took about a week. I still think that's fine. And the fact that no one hangs around the dojo long enough to see it doesn't really count as a reason to remove the build time, since any reasonable dojo overhaul would ideally create reasons for players to stay in the dojo and interact with it – thus justifying an investment of time and resources to build such a space.

While I agree with this, the Dojo *should* be a time sink and investment, I don't believe that time-gating (to the extent that it is currently) it is the way to go about it. I understand why they time-gated it--DE needs a way to keep players retention by artificially increasing play-time. In free-to-play games, this is a very common tactic. I'm not suggesting to completely abandon the mechanic as it can be used to help prevent burn out, just lower the barrier-to-entry for the basics (IE remove forma from the basics like the small empty hallways.)

1 hour ago, GrayArchon said:

I agree that this should be remedied, but I'm not quite sure how.

 

1 hour ago, GrayArchon said:

Yes. 100%. Totally agree. I think they are moving in this direction, with the new(ish) custom obstacle courses and the upcoming k-drive obstacle courses.

Glad to hear that you agree! Hopefully, we'll get much more flavour for our Dojos!

 

1 hour ago, GrayArchon said:

The Tenno are not large in number. There are comparatively few of them, in the scale of the entire Origin System. That's why all we do is "keep the balance"; despite how overwhelmingly powerful we are, we're not very many. There are billions of Grineer, with more being cloned every second. Corpus facilities can crank out robotic proxies by the thousands. There are probably more Ostrons than there are Tenno (given that Ostrons are a fairly populous space-faring race of merchants). The Tenno are strong enough to tip the scales, but generally not affect large-scale change. That's why the Origin System hasn't really changed so much since we awoke (except for Lua returning to real-space and the Sentients waking up).

That would be my bad, I need to brush up on the lore again. (Recently got into an interesting discussion about lore last night, actually. Was really fun and interesting.)

(Need to make another post, think I hit the character limit.)

 

[Nezun.Skyfire]

1 hour ago, GrayArchon said:

I disagree with this completely. Dojos should not be battle-spaces. They represent a completely different part of the game, but most importantly, the dojos are hidden. If the Grineer or Corpus knew the Tenno's base of operations, they would bring their whole armadas to bear and wipe them out. Look what they did to our Relays in Eyes of Blight. Again, the Tenno aren't strong enough to engage the major factions in an all-out assault, especially at the clan level.

Thank you for explaining your opinion! Personally, I would like to see Dojos play a more integral role in the WF Universe. As you have stated the Tenno are overwhelmingly powerful. We've already fought off the Grineer's most powerful Fomorian ships and the Corpus Razorback Armadas, along with killing off their troops by the hundreds, even thousands in missions (endless missions). Warframe's unique Universe and setting give them the opportunity to do more than just standard player housing (that's basically what dojos are). DE have never been ones to shy away from innovative ideas (Warframe itself is living proof of this), I do not see why they couldn't upset the status quo with Dojos.

I really appreciate your feedback and opinion!

[Nezun.Skyfire]

1 hour ago, Dabnician said:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1025429-suggestion-allow-clans-to-rent-dedicated-servers-for-game-play-sessions-spoilers/

 

tl;dr: Let me rent dedicated servers which require a room in my dojo to start

But thats a stupid suggestion because then my dojo would actually be useful 😛

 

 

 

That's an interesting idea, I like parts of it and the solutions you give in response. Since plat is basically pay-to-look-cool or convenience, I don't see why this wouldn't work. It'd need a lot more planning and research, but I can see that being viable if they can find the healthy balance of profit vs player affordability. That being said, finding that balance would be really hard and finding players who are willing to basically pay upwards of 100$ a month for a clan-only dedicated service (going off of the prices set by DE's plat value as that is the proposed currency to use). Not saying it's a bad idea, it'd just be hard to justify the cost for some players, and if it'd be profitable. Using the tech they have in place for Conclave as you had suggested.

Thinking on it now, having a MatchMaking option to view all available options to select who you connect to (using current tech and by default, this option would be off, like how you can adjust your ping rate for MM) and be able to see the 'average' the host's ping is instead of the one-time ping test the current system uses for MM.

[Nezun.Skyfire]

14 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

This investment is fine.  If you don't have the resources it's because you haven't done enough grinding for them and you're trying to overextend your reach as a player.  Having an amazingly decorated and huge dojo isn't something that most people can or should do.  Forma is actually the least bit of the balance problems with resources.  They are fine at level 1 and 2, but stupidly overpriced at 3 and 4 tiers.  This is because no matter how big your clan is, it's always the same 5 or 10 people that farm to build the dojo and nobody else.  Sometimes people with super high MR join and do a nice resource dump, but really forma takes nearly no investment, 35p for three, that's about 20 minish of proper farming.  Plastids and oxium on the other hand... to build a room out nice and to capacity is going to cost literally millions of those among other things, and that's going to take many, many hours even with the most min/maxed possible coordinated loot group, I would know.  I'm lucky if I can build out a room a week, that's a lot.  Also if you think hema is bad, wait till you do condrocs for tower.  Worst farm in the game hands down and makes hema look like a cakewalk.

I can agree with that. Personally, I think to have Forma on basic, mandatory parts of the Dojo (the empty short connecting hallways) shouldn't be there, just my preference and stance. Mayhaps a rebalance of materials required then? I get that it should be a time and resource sink, but as you and I have stated, it is no small task. I'm not saying make it stupidly easy and be done in a matter of hours per room, just to tone it back a little.

14 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

This is really disjointed and doesn't make a clear case for why it should exist other than you think it's cool.  That's justifiable to you, but not anyone that doesn't find that cool.  Really we need sustainable content in the form of something like raids and rails again, not those because they had serious issues, but they were at least fun and engaging clan-ish content.

I should have went into more detail about the idea. It's not as overly fleshed out as it could be. I just wanted to make a point there are some fun and creative ways that you can add the Dojo into the Warframe Universe that could reward players for coming together (even if it wasn't explained or portrayed that well, I should work on that). And I agree 110%, we do need fun and repeatable content to be added.

 

15 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

Keep your wishlist small and based on things that are already there.  Adjust those.  Adding huge behomoth updates based on some forum rambling isn't likely to ever happen.  I appreciate you bringing attention to the issues though, so don't think this is me hating on you or your ideas, I just don't see them as remotely viable for implementation any time in the next bajillion patches for a wide variety of reasons.

No problem! I just wanted to open grounds for discussion, bring to light some things that would be more than welcomed if addressed, and make some suggestions that could potentially be a thing, even if that chance is next to nil, it's still an interesting topic of discussion.