Serration Must Be Apart Of The Weapons Not Mods In My Opinion.

[Malaheart]

Edit: I changed the title of this thread to be less inflammatory.

 

Again, Please read before you post. This is most likely going to be another inflammatory topic but this is a change I think is necessary to bring Warframe where it needs to be.

 

Note: I'm going to use Serration interchangeable for base damage increasing mods for weapons. When I refer to it without specifically saying other wise I'm including Serration, Hornet Strike, Point Blank, Pressure Point and Killing Blow.

 

As it stands right now Serration mods are a blunt tool for increasing the damage output of weapons as content progresses in the game. Every fusion rank you improve the mod it increases the base damage (and by an extension the damage of all other mods) by a flat increase in percentage. There is no variance between weapons in an individual class. They all get the same percentage increase of all the other weapons. No matter what their base damage is or what kind of weapon they are.This in turn limits the options for the developer when trying to balance weapons and takes the choice out of one mods slot.

 

I'm going to stop here to say this. I am not on a crusade to kill all damage mods. Just the mods that feel redundant and limit the choices of players. Just the same I also don't want to kill damage scaling on weapons. I just do not believe the mod system is the right place for how weapon's base damage should be increased. I guarantee you anyone who has a max level weapon in Warframe they use regularly puts a Serration mod on it. It is so widely used it may be fair to say it is a requirement for every weapon to have. Something that could be considered apart of every weapon evolution of power. So if it is a requirement on every weapon, why have us equip it? Why not remove the mods and relocate the damage increase on to the the ranking system of the weapons. So as the "level up" their damage increases.

 

Warframes already have energy, shields and health that grow in strength as they gain ranks. So why not do this for weapons? It would free DE from having the linear scaling mods, mods that give the same percentage no matter what weapon it is attached to. In the process give them a new tool that would allow the developer to balancing the weapons. No longer would every rifle and bow in Warframe have an automatic unvaried base damage increase of 165% at max. That number could be tuned for what would balance the weapons themselves. It could also be non linear for levels. There could be a higher average percentage increase at lower levels to help lessen some of the learning curves issues of the game. Yes we would no longer have the option to handicap ourselves by removing the serration mods. But why would we do that in the first place?

 

At the end of the day, Serration mods are a requirement on every weapon.So much so they have become a part of the weapons themselves. Why not just take the next logical step?

 

Thank you.

 

Final note: Pressure Point and Killing Blow are the two most redundant mods in the game. One that increases non charged damage by 150% and one that increases Charged damage by 150%. They are quite literally one mod that has been split in two.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Malaheart

[tigrex]

How about NO

[Sophista]

TL:DR.

No.

Bye

 

 

EDIT

Hi.

Jk.

Did R.

Still. No

 

y?

Edited September 11, 2013 by PiotrGracz

[baldy117]

THIS MAN WANT MOD TREE SYSTEM BACK?

[FiendFyre]

I was about to say no... but then I read it, and I think it does make sense.

Serration and all those flat damage upgrade mods are pretty much necessary, so if they were kind of built in, it would make sense.

Somehow I don't think DE will like this though :(

[JerichoFayne]

Until the day comes that the entire armor, enemy scaling, weapon scaling, warframe scaling, and player mastery level system changes, those mods are a necessary & integral component to the development of player's overall damage package.

[Dasmir]

This crap again ?

[RYN0C]

Well you already did split-chamber must go.  What other mod must go next?  I'm excited for Fast Hands must go.

[Malaheart]

Until the day comes that the entire armor, enemy scaling, weapon scaling, warframe scaling, and player mastery level system changes, those mods are a necessary & integral component to the development of player's overall damage package.

 

Not if they were rolled in the the natural progression of weapons as i purposed.

[michaelwii]

Actually, since the base damage mod IS almost a requirement, I'm totally alright with it being something that goes up as the weapon levels up. Only problem is that you can EASILY hit level 30 multiple times before you ever get a max serration mod, so that's something DE would have to adjust.

 

THe base damage on melee should stay as mods. I use certain weapons as charge attack only (gram, orthos, etc) and there's no point to having it have a high melee when I'm only using the charge melee. THe mods allow for different playstyles because the melee weapons can do those two different types of damages, something that rifles and secondaries can't do.

 

An OK change imo, but it isn't gonna do much for the game other than give players an extra mod slot.

[Archistopheles]

*eye-roll*

[michaelwii]

Until the day comes that the entire armor, enemy scaling, weapon scaling, warframe scaling, and player mastery level system changes, those mods are a necessary & integral component to the development of player's overall damage package.

He doesn't say get rid of the mod. He's saying have it be something that levels up as your weapon levels up. I think. Kinda like with how a warframe's shield and health go up as they're leveled up.

[Sophista]

Well you already did split-chamber must go.  What other mod must go next?  I'm excited for Fast Hands must go.

But please, please, do not try to get rid of insulation, flame repellent and others, these must STAY. NO CHANGES there...

[BIossome]

I know what you're getting at, but the thing is, all that time I put into that mod. I really can't ever see myself letting it go without quitting.

[RYN0C]

But please, please, do not try to get rid of insulation, flame repellent and others, these must STAY. NO CHANGES there...

Yup those ones need to stay, without those my frame would be useless

[immolator1001]

Wait for the new damage system to come out then decide.

[Izeck]

This is the way I see it. When a soldier joins the military he is an untrained civilian. Over time he gains experience in a field and with said training he improves in stamina, health and becomes stronger. This is the same for Warframes.

 

 A weapon, no matter how much you use it, will never get stronger unless you do changes to it. Added an extended mag, use different bullet types, extend the barrel, add sights... etc. In order for a weapon to become stronger you have to modify it. The same is true in this game.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Izeck

[Malaheart]

Well you already did split-chamber must go.  What other mod must go next?  I'm excited for Fast Hands must go.

 

Next topic on my list is scaling ammo drops. As in they should.

 

THIS MAN WANT MOD TREE SYSTEM BACK?

 

Nope, this would be completely hidden behind the scenes. What would happen is as the rank of your weapon increases so does it's base damage box. You would still have mods, the only difference is maybe puncture would look more useful now that your not giving up damage for it.

[A1kona]

U mad bro? Remember serrations takes foreeeeeeevaaaaaa to rank up, mine is currently sitting at 120% damage...if you take serration out, then you take out one piece of the pie (the pie beig Warframe) eg. GRINDING. Which means less time spent on Warframe itself. We need serration also for the end game mobs. Go and play on pluto with any weapon without serration (nevermind shotguns or secondories) and tell me if you need serration or not

[Drasiel]

I remember the last time this issue was raised, it was coupled with a very strange change to the elemental damage system.

 

To be honest the serration mods never made any sense to me. It seemed like something that should be integral to the weapon, as energy capacity, health and shields are to the warframe.

 

Also guys come one this isn't supposed to be a discussion about what other mods need rebalancing it's about whether pure damage mods such as serration and it's equivalents should be inherent to weapons or not. If you want to talk about a rework for those mods go make a topic about it.

[RYN0C]

I don't have a problem with serration mod.  Yes it can lead to large damage scaling but the upgrade cost to get it to max rank is very high to the point where no new players will max it for some time, then it also has a  value of 14 so if a weapon doesn't have the appropriate slot you lose half of your capacity right there.  From this a player then needs to use forma or a catalyst which can be hard to get or result in the use of platinum.  So either way DE wins you have to put more time or money into the game to accommodate this mod and its not like a rank 1 player is gonna have a significant form of serration available to them only higher levels players who earned it.  I agree with these guys on this.

 

I remember the last time this issue was raised, it was coupled with a very strange change to the elemental damage system.

 

To be honest the serration mods never made any sense to me. It seemed like something that should be integral to the weapon, as energy capacity, health and shields are to the warframe.

 

Also guys come one this isn't supposed to be a discussion about what other mods need rebalancing it's about whether pure damage mods such as serration and it's equivalents should be inherent to weapons or not. If you want to talk about a rework for those mods go make a topic about it.

 

U mad bro? Remember serrations takes foreeeeeeevaaaaaa to rank up, mine is currently sitting at 120% damage...if you take serration out, then you take out one piece of the pie (the pie beig Warframe) eg. GRINDING. Which means less time spent on Warframe itself. We need serration also for the end game mobs. Go and play on pluto with any weapon without serration (nevermind shotguns or secondories) and tell me if you need serration or not

 

However it is worth waiting until the new armour system and updates from DE come out to even begin thinking of what needs changing.

Edited September 11, 2013 by RYN0C

[Malaheart]

This is the way I see it. When a soldier joins the military he is an untrained civilian. Over time he gains experience in a field and with said training he improves in stamina, health and becomes stronger. This is the same for Warframes.

 

 A weapon, no matter how much you use it, will never get stronger unless you do changes to it. Added an extended mag, use different bullet types, extend the barrel, add sights... etc. In order for a weapon to become stronger you have to modify it. The same is true in this game.

 

Yes, because push ups totally give you more shields.

 

U mad bro? Remember serrations takes foreeeeeeevaaaaaa to rank up, mine is currently sitting at 120% damage...if you take serration out, then you take out one piece of the pie (the pie beig Warframe) eg. GRINDING. Which means less time spent on Warframe itself. We need serration also for the end game mobs. Go and play on pluto with any weapon without serration (nevermind shotguns or secondories) and tell me if you need serration or not

 

No, I have at least one 165% serration and I don't want to remove damage increase from weapons. I just want it to be weapon dependent. and to your last point I'll refer you to what I said in my OP. I quoted it below.

 

 Yes we would no longer have the option to handicap ourselves by removing the serration mods. But why would we do that in the first place?

[Anunymau5]

Well you already did split-chamber must go.  What other mod must go next?  I'm excited for Fast Hands must go.

...was about to say the same thing. Next up is definitely gonna be warframes. THey need to go man.

[101blubb]

U mad bro? Remember serrations takes foreeeeeeevaaaaaa to rank up, mine is currently sitting at 120% damage...if you take serration out, then you take out one piece of the pie (the pie beig Warframe) eg. GRINDING. Which means less time spent on Warframe itself. We need serration also for the end game mobs. Go and play on pluto with any weapon without serration (nevermind shotguns or secondories) and tell me if you need serration or not

 

You don't get it. It is an absolute necessity and detracts from the viability of more interesting alternatives due to its cost.

 

Edit: Ohh and by the way: r10 Serration/r9 Hornet Strike/420h of gameplay. I'd be happy to see damagemods go as they add nothing to the game.

Edited September 11, 2013 by 101blubb

[Stakhanov]

I do agree with you for the most part - As I spent a countless amount of money upgrading serration, the idea that I can increase the damage on, for example, the Burston, base damage 30, to a much higher 80 or so, to just say the least makes it more attractive, but the idea I can increase the Ogris, base damage 500 as a benchmark up to over 1,250 doesn't seem to make me sway from one weapon to another other than the idea of sheer variety or comfort.

Also, I find when modding the weapons, it's always Cryo, Stormbringer, Serration, Hellfire, Split Chamber, Wildfire as the most useful, bar a few special cases, like not using AP on the Boltor as it ignores armour.

I do believe the mod system could use a little variety, but in order to do that, you'd need far more choices in terms of what mods you could add to it, before you decide to oust attachments like Serration.