Some of these energy penalties just means that nobody is gonna invest anymore than they should in the Focus trees.

[Namah]

 

I know I know, this is an old complaint, but I'll post this anyway. I'm sort of frustrated if anything.

I ain't really a fan of energy penalties after investing time into leveling focus, and how some abilities are inconsistent because they don't require extra energy(please don't do us in because I said this). This is my favorite example here. I will never ever level Void Radiance past unlocking it, and many other people do the same. It's just a crappy ability in the way of a far superior one, if I were to be harsh, I'd say it's no more than a petty trap to hurt those who are unsuspecting.

I have been able to manage with the energy penalties on other focus trees(I still don't like them, I feel more inclined to just disable them but whatever). If I were to suggest a change that appeals to those uh... hardcore warframe players, then I'd say just make energy penalties not increase when leveling up focus nodes(I know some don't increase the penalties, but some do, like Void Radiance).

Edited March 7, 2019 by Namah
better image

[Chewarette]

Right now.

But if one day we have any sort of content where the Operator is helpful - and there will be, given the Operator is nearly as powerful as a Warframe in 2019 -, this ability at Rank 3 will be quite interesting actually if you use Madurai.

But I fail to really see the complaint here, as you're probably leveling Madurai solely for Void Striking the Tridolon. Thus, either you remain in Void Mode until you're out of energy (so no Void Radiance at all), or you leave it to deal some damage (and your energy will be replenished in 2 seconds anyway).

[Arcira]

At least there you should be an option to reduce the rank once upgraded. Beside the energy thing there are other reasons why upgrading them is a bad idea. For example if you don´t have enought points or Void Aegis.

Edited March 7, 2019 by Arcira

[taiiat]

11 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

But if one day we have any sort of content where the Operator is helpful - and there will be, given the Operator is nearly as powerful as a Warframe in 2019 -, this ability at Rank 3 will be quite interesting actually if you use Madurai.

uhh, spacekid doesn't have a Melee Weapon (well i guess in theory that might be changing at some point), so the Blind isn't even really useful. it's not like your Amp will get nonsensical Damage Bonuses from it.

[Chewarette]

1 minute ago, taiiat said:

uhh, spacekid doesn't have a Melee Weapon (well i guess in theory that might be changing at some point), so the Blind isn't even really useful. it's not like your Amp will get nonsensical Damage Bonuses from it.

Madurai has some quite insane Void Blast / Void Dash damage boosts, which can be paired with Fortuna's Arcanes. And you can also pair all this with a "short range" Amp (like the flamethrower-thing or the detonating Mine - Tier 7 scaffold I think).

[taiiat]

2 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

Madurai has some quite insane Void Blast / Void Dash damage boosts, which can be paired with Fortuna's Arcanes. And you can also pair all this with a "short range" Amp (like the flamethrower-thing or the detonating Mine - Tier 7 scaffold I think).

i was only referring to the Blind mentioned here, but yes you can technically deal considerable Damage with those Damage transmog Arcanes and some Focus Nodes to increase the base values.

[Chewarette]

2 minutes ago, taiiat said:

i was only referring to the Blind mentioned here, but yes you can technically deal considerable Damage with those Damage transmog Arcanes and some Focus Nodes to increase the base values.

What I meant is that the Blind isn't useless if you want to build around a short-range Operator. Void Dash in the middle of a pack, get out of Void Mode to start dealing damage (blinding enemies), and take profit of your 8 void strike charges to spam Void Blast or your Amp. Seems like some reasonable thing to do, and in this case the Void Radiance at rank 3 is useful for more range/duration, despite the higher energy cost.

[taiiat]

24 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

What I meant is that the Blind isn't useless if you want to build around a short-range Operator. Void Dash in the middle of a pack, get out of Void Mode to start dealing damage (blinding enemies), and take profit of your 8 void strike charges to spam Void Blast or your Amp. Seems like some reasonable thing to do, and in this case the Void Radiance at rank 3 is useful for more range/duration, despite the higher energy cost.

however, you can be invulnerable in between every Amp shot, and Void Blast/space punching CC's any Enemies nearby anyways, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Namah]

Damage buffs and CC have nothing to do with my feedback. The fact that I'm investing my time to get focus XP and then have increased penalties for leveling them up is really discouraging. Energy penalties should just stay at the base value.

Edited March 7, 2019 by Namah

[(PSN)FunkyTown_76]

Many of these skills do have uses beyond what an operator can take advantage of. The blind from void radiance is very useful in dangerous situations and also synergizes quite well with many frames and weapons. It has enough of a duration that it can be taken advantage of in many ways. The energy cost of it is the only way to add any sort of balance to it. Our operators, as already mentioned in this thread, are extremely powerful combined with experience and other game play knowledge.

 Any arguements can be made about how some specific weapon, frame or w/e accomplish said effect better is fine. Although these sorts of things, such as void radiance, seem to be more about options and build diversity than it is about power and efficiency.

This idea that everything has to be top tier damage with top tier efficiency only leads to very boring farming simulator game play.

[Namah]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)FunkyTown_76 said:

Many of these skills do have uses beyond what an operator can take advantage of. The blind from void radiance is very useful in dangerous situations and also synergizes quite well with many frames and weapons. It has enough of a duration that it can be taken advantage of in many ways. The energy cost of it is the only way to add any sort of balance to it. Our operators, as already mentioned in this thread, are extremely powerful combined with experience and other game play knowledge.

 Any arguements can be made about how some specific weapon, frame or w/e accomplish said effect better is fine. Although these sorts of things, such as void radiance, seem to be more about options and build diversity than it is about power and efficiency.

This idea that everything has to be top tier damage with top tier efficiency only leads to very boring farming simulator game play.

Besides majority of the free Operator abilities, like Energizing Dash and of the like. What abilities do you think synergize very well with the frames and weapons?

 

And for the boring farming simulator game play, I already did that for a very long time just getting the focus xp. Been loading up a blitz banshee and going to Adaro for about a year now(when I have the time), almost done with Focus entirely. Sort of disappointed with a lot of the abilities(mainly the ones that have increased costs in energy penalties), was quite a time sink for me, if I hadn't of done that, I probably wouldn't have a fourth of my Focus done.

[Michael]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)FunkyTown_76 said:

Many of these skills do have uses beyond what an operator can take advantage of. The blind from void radiance is very useful in dangerous situations and also synergizes quite well with many frames and weapons. It has enough of a duration that it can be taken advantage of in many ways. The energy cost of it is the only way to add any sort of balance to it. Our operators, as already mentioned in this thread, are extremely powerful combined with experience and other game play knowledge.

 Any arguements can be made about how some specific weapon, frame or w/e accomplish said effect better is fine. Although these sorts of things, such as void radiance, seem to be more about options and build diversity than it is about power and efficiency.

This idea that everything has to be top tier damage with top tier efficiency only leads to very boring farming simulator game play.

How can I have build diversity with Operators?

Edited March 7, 2019 by Michael

[(PSN)FunkyTown_76]

I suppose it's more of a subjective play style mindset. But for the sake of discussion I'll mention the ones I generally make use of.

Void Stalker and Void Hunter are both very useful with melee tactics and strategies.

• Banshee makes exceptional use of both of these combined with her silence and the whole popping in and out of void mode. This can also be taken adavantage of with other frames in various ways.

Void Chrysalis and Void Shadow are both very useful for stealth shenanigans and also support/protection focused play in a team. Void Regen and Void Aegis also applies well to many of the same situations.

• Helping with revives, protecting teammates, pets, allies and yourself from large AoE attacks. Or any hairy situation in general.

Void Static and Void Singularity both have many synergies across many frames, weapons and arcanes.

• Great set up for many close ranged skills, ground finishers and AoE weapons.

We have the option to make many roles more varied or even stronger in their main objective mixing these focus schools into our play styles.

It's more or less a matter of how creative you'd like to get with this stuff. Yes, I'd agree that some of these things are not very useful in all situations. But that's ok, we have options if we'd like to pursue them. I think having options is much better than not. 

Even though there are useful options for many underrated things, it isn't forced on anyone to max them out or make use of them if they chose not to, That's a sign of some very good game design when we have useful, meaningful options that aren't very obvious until they're explored.

Edited March 7, 2019 by (PS4)FunkyTown_76

[Namah]

I have all of these, I've played them too. 

Void Stalker and Hunter are generally useless, if I am using melee, I will not stop to charge them. Void Stalker seems and looks useful, but seems to be bested by the looks of Blood Rush alone. And Void Hunter is a straight up YIKES from me, it's bested by your radar 100% of the time which in general makes it a complete waste of your energy. But then again, max rank Void Hunter takes 1 Energy(still a waste if you ask me).

Void Chrysalis and Void Shadow CAN be useful, but if there's ever a time where I take Unairu, I just never really get to use it, everyone is either outside its range or there's just in general no reason to use it(everything is dead, what use is invisibility when there's nothing alive?). Very rarely do I ever even see this ability in action, and when I do, it's always superseded by a Warframe. Besides, I can just use regular old void mode to revive somebody, or switch to Vazarin and use the far superior Protective Dash(which is free by the way), or Void Aegis(which doesn't have any increasing energy penalties, crazy).

Void Singularity and Void Static are alright, but they have no increasing penalties when you rank them up, I have no issue with these other than the fact that that makes them inconsistent with the other abilities with penalties. But something like this is beside my main point, as it doesn't conflict with my feedback.

Void Regen and Void Aegis also suffer no increased penalties, yet again, this crap is getting really inconsistent.

Void Radiance is a joke, no matter how useful anyone can say it is, leaving Void Mode only means your energy gets sapped from you, the blind's range is short, and it doesnt even let you use finishers on enemies. At its max rank, I get an extremely costly ability that is superseded by Vazarin and Naramon's dash nodes. Void Strike is in a perfect place, at its max rank, it suffers no extra energy penalties. It's kind of crazy how inconsistent Focus is, if you ask me, the increasing energy penalties offer me no choice at all. For a long time I avoided them, and since I recently unlocked all of them and tried them for myself, I am left disappointed, and my reasoning to avoid them is justified.

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Namah

[Ketec]

My only complaint about focus is lenses. we have 100-s of pieces of gear and combinations. I often switch things around for variety.

We should be passively gaining focus for active school as we play and lenses should just add a boost.

At this rate people can slowly unlock everything over time and toggle active features.

Many don't bother doing those daily focus cap grinds.