Yes I Get It, It's A Meme: Vauban

[Nioga]

For the love of god buff Vauban.

No this is not a meme. I have always loved this man since he first came out, but I literally can't play him due to every other choice being better. There are even some Warframe abilities do what Vauboy does but better.

My solution; change Tesla into a launcher Warframe weapon. If Tesla were a launcher, it would scale and allow you to change the damage type to literally anything but electricity. Shift the abilities around:

• Minelayer: 25 energy
• Bastille: 50 energy
• Vortex: 75 energy
• Tesla Launcher: Whatever cost + cost per shot

This would allow more mobility of his abilities due less cost and give him a scaling ult that is his primary damaging ability. If absolutely necessary for balance drop the damage of the other three abilities with the shift. It would keep him within his aesthetic as a Warframe as well, all it would do is change the delivery method of one of his types of gadgets. I wholeheartedly believe this would breathe life into the defense master without having to rip him up by the roots and ruin what makes him Vauban.

 

*PS: Friend said it would be a good idea to add a passive to allow Vauban to pick up his abilities to restore a percentage of the cost of the abilities, to increase mobility and efficiency. I honestly believe this sounds clunky and slow, and not so much in the spirit of the batman of Warframes who throws his batarangs and forgets them. Worth a mention tho.

[Nioga]

Someone just mentioned I basically just suggested make Vauban into Ivara. Yes, make Vauban Ivara.

[(PSN)Ragology]

Why are people using "meme" as a 1:1 equivalent to the word "joke"?

[Nioga]

Memes are ideas or phrases that are passed from person to person through imitation, very loose definition, can fit a lot.

[HC217]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Ragology said:

Why are people using "meme" as a 1:1 equivalent to the word "joke"?

shorthand for joke found on the internet for most people. 

[Slumbering]

8 hours ago, Nioga said:

Memes are ideas or phrases that are passed from person to person through imitation, very loose definition, can fit a lot.

Yeah it fits a lot especially when folks don't know the definition.  Ignorance is powerful meme-juice.  Why describe a thing when you can call it, "that thing, you know?" or meme.

 

As for Vauban his passive is his best quality because his CC has glaring limitations.  This unique multiplicative damage boost (1.25) against disabled enemies is a serious powerhouse. The a problem with this wonderbuff is only vauban benefits from his passive which requires lengthy setup to utilize properly.    I found the mod Empowered Blades give Inaros/Nidus/Nezha/HP frames the ability to be a better Vauban by using melee charge attacks for a 60% multiplicative (1.6) damage increase. Four Inaros with empowered blades and coaction drift are fast and deadly killers with HP and crowd control. 

 

Everyone knows there are better options to Vauban.  He's a tissue paper cannon and his abilities are a danger for him to utilize in any open world environment because of how little they do compared to alternative frames.

As for the suggested fix~

Giving him an exalted Tesla would be interesting but I don't know how it would fix him without turning him into the old Mesa. Press 4 and walk away from the game.

Get rid of his mines and Tesla's. They are awful since they're nerfed so hard.  Focus on his manipulation of gravity, or if he must be a utility frame make him into a resupply frame and give him some abilities which replace the need for Team beacons on people's gear wheel while keeping his better CC.  In the later remove his energy costs and make it so he turns extra pickups into charges for his abilities.  Suddenly he'll have a job and people will welcome him in a group.

[000l000]

Il y a 21 heures, (PS4)Ragology a dit :

Why are people using "meme" as a 1:1 equivalent to the word "joke"?

Because people don't know what a meme is. Most people use it to sound cool but in the end we're pretty much talking about a static gif...

[Nioga]

4 hours ago, Slumbering said:

Giving him an exalted Tesla would be interesting but I don't know how it would fix him without turning him into the old Mesa. Press 4 and walk away from the game.

Get rid of his mines and Tesla's. They are awful since they're nerfed so hard.

Actually I do have to agree with getting rid of the mines, or at least ramping them all up to the nth degree. I like the idea of team beacons, I say change mines into things similar to team beacons. Problem is, people keep thinking Vauban needs a whole rework to the core, which is what I think the devs are scared of doing as it may piss off more people than it satisfies. The solution needs to change no more than one ability and maybe some rearranging and buffing of existing abilities.

Where I don't agree is him becoming old mesa, mesa has kinda always been a press 4 and walk away due to the inability to move (and even with the augment it's not much more than not moving at all). There have been many examples of exalted weapons that empower Warframes and allow them to exceed especially in tandem with their other abilities, the most recent warframe being prime example. Hildryn's weapons along with her floaty stuff allow her to CC and deal damage at a cost to heavy drain to her shields. In Vauban's case it would give him better damage output with a weapon that shoots mini turrets that aren't whole sale garbage which work well with his current passive while hes using his two mainstay abilities, bastille and vortex, to CC lots of enemies.

Also I would put forward that Vauboy is more about fortification and utility than he is about gravity, it would be boring if they just turned him into the gravity frame.

[AtsiaZ]

12 hours ago, Nioga said:

Problem is, people keep thinking Vauban needs a whole rework to the core, which is what I think the devs are scared of doing as it may piss off more people than it satisfies. The solution needs to change no more than one ability and maybe some rearranging and buffing of existing abilities. 

Well more so that they don't want to put in that kind of effort which would be better suited going towards a new frame than a rework.

[(XBOX)ALTBOULI]

He's supposed to be an engineer, giving him the ability to call in health, energy pylons for people to use or call in a turret. 

I really want to play him more but at the moment I find the majority of his abilities are not useful enough and in terms of being a CC frame, he is clearly overshadowed by many other frames. 

[Teridax68]

I think it would help Vauban if he could only lay a limited number of Tesla mines, but had their power massively buffed: one of Vauban's many problems right now is that he's expected to spam his abilities to make good use of them, which means that for Tesla he needs to spam a whole bunch of the things just for them to start tickling enemies. The fact that Tesla grenades also have their damage spread out over time, rather than a single detonation, I think also makes for an ability that is overall weaker and less interesting. If Tesla mines simply exploded on proximity or detonation for massive damage (and you could only lay something like 4 of them at a time), they could have all of their power concentrated into that single instance.

I also feel this could apply to the rest of Vauban's kit: rather than have to spam an ability to keep it going, it would be better if he only needed to use the ability once for a strong effect, and only need to reactivate it to cancel or replace it. With less spam, he may not even need lessened ability costs to function better, as he'd need to spend less Energy to produce the same effects. 

[FoxFX]

I'm going to advocate a few thing about Vauban:

 

1. Vauban's kit suffers severely from all 4 slots being Crowd Control abilities

Whenever I see Vauban, I see the most used strategy is to just Bastille the whole entire field or just lay a Vortex ragdolling and possibly interfering other Warframe player strategies. It is a repetitive gameplay that tends to be rather mundane and not as exciting as how Nidus or other newer/refurbished Warframes are designed to be. This is further compound as to how easy it is to regenerate Energy.

 

2. Asking for Vauban to have a turret is the ABSOLUTE WORST SUGGESTION!

This is something I wish a lot of people would realize.

We already have a turret ability by the name of Effigy from Chroma, and this ability can prove a further example to [DE]'s stance on automated abilities. They don't support an ability that would do all the work for the Warframe. It would be borderline leaching if such a turret should scales up to a reasonable degree that it can kill even star chart level enemies or higher.

In all honesty, engineers (or even combat engineers) aren't always associated with being turret masters. Even combat engineers were more defensive structure builders that also handle explosives and traps.

 

Vauban can be good without a turret. It just a matter of designing his abilities to not just be crowd control. Damage, support, healing, debuffing, mobility/positioning...we just need to innovate his grenade-throwing style.

[Nioga]

3 minutes ago, FoxFX said:

2. Asking for Vauban to have a turret is the ABSOLUTE WORST SUGGESTION!

He already has turrets though, that's literally what Tesla does. They're just disposable turrets with limited ammo. I can agree that there shouldn't be additional turrets in his kit because that's not what hes about.

[000l000]

Il y a 3 heures, Nioga a dit :

I can agree that there shouldn't be additional turrets in his kit because that's not what hes about.

And what is he about then ? Codex says he's a tactical frame. Vauban was a military architect/engineer who built a lot of fortresses. I don't care about him having turrets but if you think it doesn't fit the character, you're definitely wrong.

Vauban is basically about laying out a safety perimeter.

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

On 2019-03-24 at 1:09 PM, (PS4)Ragology said:

Why are people using "meme" as a 1:1 equivalent to the word "joke"?

Internet "culture" has done this. 

[Nioga]

7 hours ago, 000l000 said:

And what is he about then ? Codex says he's a tactical frame. Vauban was a military architect/engineer who built a lot of fortresses. I don't care about him having turrets but if you think it doesn't fit the character, you're definitely wrong.

Vauban is basically about laying out a safety perimeter.

Sorry I should have been a bit more clear, turrets are an intrinsic part of his idea of fortification, but he already has a turret ability. He doesn't need Additional turrets specifically, it would subtract from his purpose as a Warframe and turn him into the automated turret guy.

And what I mean by subtract is that would remove ability slots that could be better used to strengthen the idea of being the architect/engineer.

[000l000]

Il y a 3 heures, Nioga a dit :

Sorry I should have been a bit more clear, turrets are an intrinsic part of his idea of fortification, but he already has a turret ability. He doesn't need Additional turrets specifically, it would subtract from his purpose as a Warframe and turn him into the automated turret guy.

And what I mean by subtract is that would remove ability slots that could be better used to strengthen the idea of being the architect/engineer.

Any kind of exalted weapon is even worse then, and tbh i wouldn't spend some energy on such a weapon. Casting/refreshing Bastille and some Vortex is already costing a lot.

Tesla isn't a turret either, it's not deployed it's a sticky grenade. It's duration/charges mechanics makes it really poor as a durable defense mechanics especially since you need to charge it to deal enough procs (hence 50 energy each grenade...) and it's only dealing poor electricity damage at quite a short range. In fact it only works as an adddional CC, an expensive one. Unless you're playing at low levels a real customizable turret would have been better (and wouldn't cost energy each time it fires).

For my part i'll stick with an "exalted" companion, i dont' care if it's a turret, a drone or a hyena but Vauban needs more fun and something to help him with dealing some damages to anyone foolish enough to be caught in his traps. And his mines should be removed entirely, it's a waste of a power some players are even using to troll ingame - desperately bad design.

More CC wouldn't be a good idea though cause once you've thrown a Vortex or a Bastille nothing could do the job better than that, we don't need more CC it's counterproductive. Unless they synergize with this powers (a tesla could electrify your Bastille for example).

So another exalted weapon and still some mines ? I wouldn't sign for this.

[Nioga]

17 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

So another exalted weapon and still some mines ? I wouldn't sign for this.

I personally do not want some big fancy rework that changes how Vauban is played, I just want him to be playable. Which is why the changes need to be easy and something well tested such as an exalted weapon like Ivara or Hildryn. You say yet another exalted weapon, I say something easy that gives Vauban the damage he needs that the dev team could whip up on a weekend. The energy cost thing is exactly why I suggested the rearranging of the abilities energy costs as well.

Also, Tesla IS a turret. It sits in a spot and shoots at things that come close, and does not detonate so is not a grenade. The method of "deployment" doesn't change that. The charging the grenades thing was a stupid idea and is probably the worst fix to a Warframe ever pushed out by the devs. Which is what this entire post is based on, fixing the worst damage ability in the game, nothing more.

The mines though, are dumb I agree, but are simple S#&$ty little utility things. There are many Warframes with useless abilities that no one ever uses. I think it's far more important to address the fact that Vauban literally can't do damage than it is to deal with his party tricks.

[NoLazyShadow]

В 24.03.2019 в 09:15, Nioga сказал:

I have always loved this man since he first came out, but I literally can't play him due to every other choice being better

Good news for you - DE will rework him this year...unlike Valkyr

[Nioga]

6 hours ago, NoLazyShadow said:

Good news for you - DE will rework him this year...unlike Valkyr

Praise be the lotus