Warframe Physical Status Procs Re-balance

[Trek_Keel]

Terms used:

Physical Weight (PW)- The % of the total physical damage.

 

One thing is to be made clear up front, the chance of what status procs will not be affected. This proposal would introduce Minor and Major Procs based off of PW.

 

Physical Damage Procs:

Impact:

0%<=PW<60% - Minor Impact Proc: causes the enemy briefly be staggered. This stagger animation would be subtle to not obscure head shots.

60%<PW- Major Impact Proc: Causes the enemy to go into a slightly more exaggerated stagger animation or be knocked on ground. This would open them up to finishers and permanently reduce enemy accuracy.

 

Puncture:

0%<=PW<60% - Minor Puncture Proc: Causes your shot to ignore PW% of enemy armor.

60%<PW - Major Puncture Proc: Causes your shot to ignore PW% of enemy armor and enemy damage by PW%/3.

 

Slash:

0%<=PW<60% - Minor Slash Proc: Causes your shot to inflict a bleed status.

60%<PW - Major Slash Proc: Causes your shot to inflict a bleed status and reduce enemy movement speed by PW%/3.

 

Puncture will have advantage over armor and slash over shields. Impact will be CC focused. This would give more of a reason to equip physical damage mods to to achieve a more desirable effect (Major Proc over minor).

All Values are subject to change for balancing purposes.

[AzureTerra]

The Feedback Princess is in another section of the Forum Castle 

[0_The_F00l]

I guess you missed the damage 3.0 train. 

[Midas]

if IPS stops proccing over my gas then i'll be happy.

[TinFoilMkIV]

Seems like a good enough idea. I'd be fine with something like this happening.

[BeldarTheBrave]

It's better than what we have now but it's still not balanced. Impact with this is still weaker than the other two. Puncture is far more valuable at high level and does almost nothing at low level. Slash remains the best but slightly less so with your changes to puncture. Also your ideas make corrosive much less valuable as a whole. 

The value of the different status effects varies so wildly in Warframe I'm not sure that balance is something the devs are at all concerned about.

[Xzorn]

Puncture damage already ignores Armor. That's actually why it doesn't scale very well. Think you're wanting to ignore mitigation.

Keep in mind whatever you propose enemies will also get and Armor based mitigation is already quite bad.

[so_many_watermelons]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

Puncture damage already ignores Armor.

That is not at all how it works. Only True and Lethal damage ignore armor. Puncture is just another damage type like Slash and Impact, with its strengths lying in the health, armor, and shield types that DE created in a form of categorization. Puncture is stronger against some health/armor/shield types and weaker against others, like any other damage. It does not ignore armor, otherwise it would absolutely scale very well, what the hell are you thinking? If Puncture ignored armor, then it would not have to burn through additional effective health, and go straight to their health value instead without losses.

[Xzorn]

4 minutes ago, so_many_watermelons said:

That is not at all how it works. Only True and Lethal damage ignore armor. Puncture is just another damage type like Slash and Impact, with its strengths lying in the health, armor, and shield types that DE created in a form of categorization. Puncture is stronger against some health/armor/shield types and weaker against others, like any other damage. It does not ignore armor, otherwise it would absolutely scale very well, what the hell are you thinking? If Puncture ignored armor, then it would not have to burn through additional effective health, and go straight to their health value instead without losses.

 

Damage modifiers ignore a portion of Armor in addition to gaining a bonus in damage against them. That's very much how it works.

Corrosive ignores 75% of Ferrite Armor value while also gaining 75% damage. Puncture ignores 50% with a 50% bonus.

It does not scale well because it's based on Armor value and not the mitigation granted by armor. This means the higher the Armor value goes the less effective ignoring half of the armor value becomes. Half in this case being Puncture damage against Ferrite. This is also why it's bad to parse against Heavy Gunners unless you're simply testing Health values and it's easy to spot unknowing players when they do.

As an example a lvl 40 Bombard has 1,822.72 Armor. A lvl 120 Bombard has 10,750.42 Armor. If you deal 1000 Puncture damage....

Spoiler

damage = 1000 * (1 + 0.5)  * (300 / (300 + 1,822.72 * (1- 0.5)))
damage = 1000 * 1.5 * (300 / (300 + 1,822.72 * 0.5))
damage = 1000 * 1.5 * (300 / 1,211.36)
damage = 1000 * 1.5 * 0.24766
damage = 371.48
Mitigation Difference
85.87% > 75.23% = 10.64%
Damage Increase due to Puncture 1/2 Armor
(85.87 + 75.23) / 85.87 = 12.4%

damage = 1000 * (1 + 0.5)  * (300 / (300 + 10,750.42 * (1- 0.5)))
damage = 1000 * 1.5 * (300 / (300 + 10,750.42 * 0.5))
damage = 1000 * 1.5 * (300 / 5,675.21)
damage = 1000 * 1.5 * 0.05286
damage = 79.29
Mitigation Difference
97.29% > 94.71% = 2.6%
Damage Increase due to Puncture 1/2 Armor
(97.29 - 94.71) / 97.29 = 2.7%

As Armor values increase the advantage of ignoring a portion of that Armor decreases. This is why Armor as a source of mitigation in Warframe is very poor. Any enemies who do Puncture damage are ignoring 50% of your values and unlike enemies we can no longer get extreme values like Chroma once could. I think Chroma can now get around 7-8k Armor where he once held around 30k. Making him now far more vulnerable.

[so_many_watermelons]

33 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

Damage modifiers ignore a portion of Armor in addition to gaining a bonus in damage against them. That's very much how it works.

Corrosive ignores 75% of Ferrite Armor value while also gaining 75% damage. Puncture ignores 50% with a 50% bonus.

It does not scale well because it's based on Armor value and not the mitigation granted by armor. This means the higher the Armor value goes the less effective ignoring half of the armor value becomes. Half in this case being Puncture damage against Ferrite. This is also why it's bad to parse against Heavy Gunners unless you're simply testing Health values and it's easy to spot unknowing players when they do.

As an example a lvl 40 Bombard has 1,822.72 Armor. A lvl 120 Bombard has 10,750.42 Armor. If you deal 1000 Puncture damage....

  Hide contents

damage = 1000 * (1 + 0.5)  * (300 / (300 + 1,822.72 * (1- 0.5)))
damage = 1000 * 1.5 * (300 / (300 + 1,822.72 * 0.5))
damage = 1000 * 1.5 * (300 / 1,211.36)
damage = 1000 * 1.5 * 0.24766
damage = 371.48
Mitigation Difference
85.87% > 75.23% = 10.64%
Damage Increase due to Puncture 1/2 Armor
(85.87 + 75.23) / 85.87 = 12.4%

damage = 1000 * (1 + 0.5)  * (300 / (300 + 10,750.42 * (1- 0.5)))
damage = 1000 * 1.5 * (300 / (300 + 10,750.42 * 0.5))
damage = 1000 * 1.5 * (300 / 5,675.21)
damage = 1000 * 1.5 * 0.05286
damage = 79.29
Mitigation Difference
97.29% > 94.71% = 2.6%
Damage Increase due to Puncture 1/2 Armor
(97.29 - 94.71) / 97.29 = 2.7%

As Armor values increase the advantage of ignoring a portion of that Armor decreases. This is why Armor as a source of mitigation in Warframe is very poor. Any enemies who do Puncture damage are ignoring 50% of your values and unlike enemies we can no longer get extreme values like Chroma once could. I think Chroma can now get around 7-8k Armor where he once held around 30k. Making him now far more vulnerable.

Ill give us both half a point, because A: I totally forgot about that part of the damage system, ignoring armor by the same +% bonus it gets in damage, but B: because at that point, it's an inherent part of armor. Throwing out "puncture damage ignores armor" just like that is misleading, when you should say "damages that deal bonus damage to armor also ignore that armor's value by that same bonus % amount". Because it isn't exclusive to puncture, it's anything gets that bonus to an armor type. If an armor type existed that were vulnerable to Slash for example, then I could say a vague thing like "Slash damage ( itself, not the proc ) can ignore armor ) " and be misleading or confusing. Your very general "Puncture ignores armor" sounded as though you believed it ignored any armor entirely, going to straight health value or something.

Goddamn I can't believe I forgot about that armor ignore part, I remember learning about that thousands of hours after Dmg 2.0 and thinking how that's pretty stupid.

Edited April 4, 2019 by so_many_watermelons