Volt's speed

[(PSN)Aneres_Omega]

I Wouldn't mind them raising the cool down time for the spam skill from 10 to maybe 15 to 20 seconds.

[moodster]

16 hours ago, LSG501 said:

DIdn't DE do some changes to speed that up recently and yet I'm still getting stuck on doors even without a speed buff from volt, in all honesty I think I 'hit' a closed door more often than them opening fast enough.

yeah they did. Doors are now client side and it is MUCH improved, but I do still smash into doors sometimes, usually if a teammate goes through the door first and I arrive as the door is closing. 

[Wiergate]

On 2019-04-09 at 9:01 PM, Voltage said:

If players want to not be under the influence of Volt, they can simply alt tab for a second or 2 and be out of range of Volt's Speed cast radius. The solution to this "problem" is staying away from the frame you dislike, not ruining it for other people.

This suggests that Volt players have the sense to only spam Speed in linear missions where they want to get from A to B as quickly as possible. I can assure you that is not the case.
Even if it were, 'friendship doors' are a thing and most Volt players are spamming their Speed so hard while standing at one that you frequently have to remind them to hit 'interact' as well so we can actually progress. With a fresh dose of unwanted Speed, of course.  

Speaking for myself, I'm frequently annoyed by DE's attempts to hinder out movement not just with enemy CC but with obstacles like arch traps, laser doors and decorative pillars rising from the floor for reasons even the ancient Orokin would be hard pressed to explain. 

Thing is, I know where arch traps and laser doors are likely to be and I can shoot or roll through them, respectively. With a Volt in the squad I only know that a massive hindrance to fluid movement and accurate melee combos  - not to mention aesthetically satisfying animations - is on the way, not when. 

We need a way to be exempt from a mechanic which is almost as invasive as pre-rework Limbo other than doing backflips half the mission or staying out of the Volt player's way, and (contrary to what has been suggested above) the topic is neither new nor rare. Just do a forum search.
Threads usually land in an option to opt out from the effect altogether from your settings tab or the mission tab and an open question to DE about if this is doable. AFAIK we have yet to hear back from them.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

Humm Volt speed is annoying, and if DE is planning to keep it that way they could just let us use K-drive in all maps, if we are going to bang our heads on every walls let's do it with style.

[moodster]

There will always be a number of people complaining about something another player does with their frame... 

On 2019-04-10 at 6:49 AM, Cloverdew said:

First, I want to thank you for the constructive criticism of my proposal.
Secondly, I am very glad that you have a friend who is fun to play with. But how often in missions, playing as Nova, do you do unplanned backflips?

I had an idea with a separate menu, where the player could choose which gains and what warframes he wants to receive on missions. I made a list of abilities in the game that make their warframe move differently against their will: Vauban "Bounce" (however, you can simply not step on them and they are visible on the floor), Nova "Wormhole" (portals are noticeable and you can not go in if you do not want), Loki "Switch teleport" (I rarely see Loki who do this for fun. But they still need to allocate your warframe to transfer). 

And only the speed of the Volt forces players within a radius of themselves to move with such speed. Okay, if this is a capture mission. What about the defense, where the players are locked up with Volt and maybe it’s unpleasant for them to play at that speed? What if he has an impressive range and strength of ability and spam this every five seconds?

Having canceled the acceleration of Volt through a back flip, the DE acknowledged that there was a problem, but abandoned the idea halfway. I hope they read my topic and take note.

I do backflips quite regularly in missions... intentionally and unintentionally (especially in Defense, survival, assassinate). I move/parkour a lot. I do not want an ally speed buff to be cancelled on me especially at an arbitrary 2 minute ban because some other players are not skilled at movement. Just don't sprint while under volt's speed buff... Or as others have said, just stay 10 meters away which is pretty easy to do. I suppose there are probably some volt's out there who do not use Narrow Minded and would have a 25m base radius, but most speed Volt's will be using Narrow Minded because we are selfish and just in case other players don't want the speed. I have never come across a player who complained about my volt speed buff and I have had many random squad-mates comment on how they love it when a volt speeds them. That is not to say there are none who dislike it, but it appears to be a small minority who dislike it especially to the extent that they want the game changed because of it.

I'm in the simulacrum right now testing 1.3 sprint speed vs volt speed WALK speed with 268% strength. Walking with volt's speed is maybe 20%-30% faster than running without Volt's speed between 260-323 power strength. I just don't see the big problem here. Random Frost and Limbo bubbles are far more impactful to actual gameplay than a slightly faster move speed that you can turn off with a simply press of 2 keys...

If you're in a defense you probably aren't doing much/any sprinting anyway, just do bullet jumps instead. As someone who uses speed Volt for all of my random daily mission things, I don't bring speed Volt to Defense and I haven't noticed other Speed Volt's in defense missions either. I usually bring Super Speed Nova to Defense missions (power donation) to get it done fast, or I bring whatever I happen to be having fun playing at the time. I actually hardly see other speed Volt's in general and when I do, they tend to have weaker power strength. I also rarely seem to gain their buff whether I am using Volt or not. I most often see Speed Volt's in fissure missions and again, hardly ever seem to gain their effect. 

I suggest you build volt and learn to use him, as someone else said, once you learn other frames that frame will irritate you less when other players use it. I do remember way back before I had a Volt build and before I was good at Warframe parkour I also wasn't very good at dealing with ally Volt speed.

Adding menu options to disable specific ally ability affects on you doesn't make sense to me. I just can't seem to articulate why it feels so wrong. 

Sorry, but this bugs me... you keep saying acceleration when you actually mean speed/velocity.They are two very different things.

Lastly, I probably come off like a real jerk, sorry about that... Socially inept, I am.

If DE were to do anything with Volt's speed as far as how it affects allies, the only reasonable change would be to make it like Loki's 2 where you must wait until it expires to recast it. I would not like this change as a Volt player because I often cast speed, then rush into enemies to inflict status effects, and recast speed to get the boost from growing power. Not to mention that the Volt would immediately begin slowing down upon expiration unless DE specifically addressed this by allowing recasting a few seconds before it expires.

Edited April 22, 2019 by moodster

[Wiergate]

9 minutes ago, moodster said:

Adding menu options to disable specific ally ability affects on you doesn't make sense to me. I just can't seem to articulate why it feels so wrong. 

It would be interesting to hear though. You're taking a thoughtful approach to the matter and that's always appreciated. 
I've played a lot of Volt and nearly 1K days in I'd like to think I'm pretty decent with the parkour, Speed or no. I used to like him a lot, but these days I only play him solo or in Eidolon caps specifically because I know I bug people by playing the frame as intended.  

Apart from some (possibly) unnecessarily snide remarks about spammy Volt players above, I think I made the point that for me and many others, bursts of unwanted Speed (where we can only gradually infer how that player has built their Volt) feels immensely disruptive to how we pace our movement and actions. We can adapt to varying degrees according to our experience with the game but on the whole the effect is too great and too immediate for it not to ruin my pacing with other frames and playstyles.
 
Agreed, an opt-out feature for ability effects could potentially be troublesome and could set a strange precedent in a game where adapting to one another is part of the experience. In my opinion, however, the effects of Speed have such a large impact on general play that it doesn't lend itself to subtle solutions and that's why I'm in favor of opting out - especially given that some players are never going to be very considerate of others. 

I can be swayed by good arguments though, and there could certainly be issues I've overlooked with such a feature.    

[moodster]

You know,  you guys can also just ask the volt to chill out with the speed.... If a player says "Hey, Volt... could you try not to use speed so much, I can't handle it" I would say, yeah, sorry about that... and try to only use it once per duration or try to stay further away from that player. If a Volt is spamming speed, it's probably because he's trying to get his Growing Power buff on it. I've asked limbo and frost not to bubble or other frames to not do something. Sometimes they are jerks, other times they are fine with it. Like Benour said, there are many Warframe negative synergies and ally effects that annoy other players, it doesn't mean they should all be changed.

I'm sorry, but it is utterly ridiculous and laughable for someone to claim that volt speed is as "invasive" as the original Limbo Cataclysm. If you can't figure out how to do a backflip, or Volt is spamming 2 and you are too afraid to ask him to stop, and you can't figure out how to simply NOT SPRINT... then just press and release your forward key every couple seconds. It takes your frame a couple seconds to accelerate (increase speed). Volt's speed is not an instant max speed button, it ramps up as you begin to move. Thus, moving forward will speed up, releasing forward will slow you back down. 

I can understand how a speed buffed melee could be annoying for someone trying to pull off combos, but let's be real here... In any starchart mission or even sortie, you hardly need specific combos. If you're going above Sortie level (endurance) then I highly doubt you've got a speed volt in your squad. Now this makes me want to try a 600% strength speed volt the next time Volt comes up on arbitration just to see what it's like 😄

Edited April 22, 2019 by moodster

[Wiergate]

9 hours ago, moodster said:

I'm sorry, but it is utterly ridiculous and laughable for someone to claim that volt speed is as "invasive" as the original Limbo Cataclysm. If you can't figure out how to do a backflip, or Volt is spamming 2 and you are too afraid to ask him to stop, and you can't figure out how to simply NOT SPRINT...

OK, ignore what I said about 'thoughtful approach' above. Clearly it didn't last. 
It's not about about not being able to handle it, nor basic controls 3000 hours in or what's 'needed' for trivial missions in a trivially easy game.
It's about one's enjoyment of a co-op game being curtailed because an immensely - yes - invasive ability is in the hands of players who are so poor at listening that they believe explaining universally known sprint mechanics in a condescending tone will solve the problem. 
   
Just give us the frigging opt-out already.  

[Cloverdew]

20 часов назад, moodster сказал:

I have never come across a player who complained about my volt speed buff

Survivorship bias. I politely ask volts to stop Speed spam every 5 seconds. But more often they simply ignore such requests, whether they are level 5 or 25. 

20 часов назад, moodster сказал:

Adding menu options to disable specific ally ability affects on you doesn't make sense to me. I just can't seem to articulate why it feels so wrong. 

If you do not need this option, it does not mean that nobody needs it.

19 часов назад, moodster сказал:

there are many Warframe negative synergies and ally effects that annoy other players, it doesn't mean they should all be changed

Again, reread the first entry. We do not ask to improve or weaken. We ask to give us the opportunity to get rid of the speed spam of the volt for short period and play as we like, move with the speed we are used to, without any crutches, like "Do not run!" or "Just wait for the volt to go to another room!".

20 часов назад, moodster сказал:

I probably come off like a real jerk

It is. It sounds like "I did not take a shower a month, people on the subway who ride near me are satisfied and have nothing against it, because they don’t tell me anything". Please do not turn this topic into a circus. We understood your point of view already after your first message. Why keep writing the same thing to get the same answer. I created this topic to suggest an idea so that other people could express their wishes and add constructive criticism. Your contribution to this business is whining.

19 часов назад, Wiergate сказал:

Agreed, an opt-out feature for ability effects could potentially be troublesome and could set a strange precedent in a game where adapting to one another is part of the experience. In my opinion, however, the effects of Speed have such a large impact on general play that it doesn't lend itself to subtle solutions and that's why I'm in favor of opting out - especially given that some players are never going to be very considerate of others. 

Thanks, this is exactly what I am trying to convey to everyone.

Edited April 23, 2019 by Cloverdew
Typo

[Cinereal]

Don't get me wrong, I love playing as/running with a 300+ power strength Volt, but people have been complaining about unwanted speed boosts for years. Doesn't help that high power strength goes hand-in-hand with low duration, so even Volts that aren't trying to spam still end up needing refresh their speed every 12-ish seconds. And on fissures, there's always the chance the Volt gets a warframe buff, so even you were fine with the original boost, you might still find yourself smooching walls all the way to extraction.

I don't see why it's so unreasonable to let people map opt-outs to a specific key and then let them toggle which abilities they'd rather have not affect them, except that it might be difficult for the developers to implement. (And this applies to plenty of other circumstances too. Speed Nova doesn't want a power strength buff from Equinox, for instance.) Warframe's movement system is probably the best part of the game, and if you have a particular rhythm that you enjoy, it basically ruins the game to have another frame relentlessly interrupt that flow. 

I don't like the cooldown-on-backflip idea as much, because as another poster said, some people like the speed boost and would be locked out of the ability for the next several minutes--likely the rest of the mission, if it's the type of mission that somebody's bringing Volt to speed through.

[moodster]

I will do my best to curb my attitude going forward... I suggest you two do the same.

14 hours ago, Wiergate said:

It's not about about not being able to handle it, nor basic controls 3000 hours in or what's 'needed' for trivial missions in a trivially easy game.
It's about one's enjoyment of a co-op game being curtailed because an immensely - yes - invasive ability is in the hands of players who are so poor at listening that they believe explaining universally known sprint mechanics in a condescending tone will solve the problem. 

You're welcome do dislike me, my tone, my opinion... Just don't make it personal with insults. Your opinion is that it is invasive, my opinion is that it is a welcome boon. In my experience, more players like the speed than don't.

5 hours ago, Cloverdew said:

Survivorship bias. I politely ask volts to stop Speed spam every 5 seconds. But more often they simply ignore such requests, whether they are level 5 or 25. 

This isn't survivorship bias. It's a personal anecdote to illustrate my opinion based on my experience. My experience is that more players enjoy the speed than hate it. I acknowledge that some people will refuse... Some will acquiesce. I have the same issue with Frost and Limbo players and a few other niche cases (Nekros shadows sucking all of Oberon's energy). I just don't find your ideas practical.

5 hours ago, Cloverdew said:

If you do not need this option, it does not mean that nobody needs it.

my response wasn't about necessity, but nobody actually "needs" this option... It was about practicality or a realistic solution to something that negatively affects a minority of players.

5 hours ago, Cloverdew said:

Again, reread the first entry. We do not ask to improve or weaken. We ask to give us the opportunity to get rid of the speed spam of the volt for short period and play as we like, move with the speed we are used to, without any crutches, like "Do not run!" or "Just wait for the volt to go to another room!".

I read and understood your suggestion the first time. I disagree with it. I also offered an actual practical solution that is simpler to implement. You ignored it.

5 hours ago, Cloverdew said:

It is. It sounds like "I did not take a shower a month, people on the subway who ride near me are satisfied and have nothing against it, because they don’t tell me anything". Please do not turn this topic into a circus. We understood your point of view already after your first message. Why keep writing the same thing to get the same answer. I created this topic to suggest an idea so that other people could express their wishes and add constructive criticism. Your contribution to this business is whining.

First, this doesn't even make sense... and Really? You think this response is appropriate to me apologizing? You think this response is appropriate in an effort not to turn this thread into a circus? I'm sorry, but you're complaint about Volt is literally whining, I am just responding to it. Again, I presented a constructive and practical suggestion in BOLD that you ignored. I will put it here again below...

If DE were to do anything with Volt's speed as far as how it affects allies, the only reasonable change would be to make it like Loki's 2 where you must wait until it expires to recast it. I would not like this change as a Volt player because I often cast speed, then rush into enemies to inflict status effects, and recast speed to get the boost from growing power. This is also likely why you feel that Volt players are spamming the ability. If this change were implemented, Volt would immediately begin decelerating upon expiration unless DE specifically addressed this by allowing recasting a few seconds before it expires. 

1. Adding opt outs in menus doesn't make any sense to me gameplay wise. Negative synergies are a part of random squads. I feel that players should need to talk to each other in order to build a team with positive synergies. That is the point of cooperative gameplay. Disabling any possible negative synergies or inconveniences from the menus detracts from the core aspect of a co-op ability based game. I think it could fundamentally change how frames and players interact with each other in game especially if you expect it to be applied to other abilities as you mentioned before. It can also create a situation where a player takes an action expecting a specific outcome, but instead gets a different outcome. I'm not a fan of unpredictable outcomes in game systems that should be finite. It might as well be cheating. Players will find ways to create unintended synergies or exploits (not necessarily the volt speed option specifically).

2. I understand that you don't use backflips, but many other players do. Disabling the buff for 2 minutes (or any arbitrary time) with a backflip will negatively affect players who want the buff and also enjoy an active parkour playstyle. I would argue that even the current implementation of this should be changed to a specific/separate and deliberate button press. These are the only two suggestions that have been presented that I am aware of... If DE were to implement either of your suggestions I would strongly protest.

Edited April 23, 2019 by moodster

[moodster]

1 hour ago, Cinereal said:

Don't get me wrong, I love playing as/running with a 300+ power strength Volt, but people have been complaining about unwanted speed boosts for years. Doesn't help that high power strength goes hand-in-hand with low duration, so even Volts that aren't trying to spam still end up needing refresh their speed every 12-ish seconds. And on fissures, there's always the chance the Volt gets a warframe buff, so even you were fine with the original boost, you might still find yourself smooching walls all the way to extraction.

People are always going to complain, that's what we do... It doesn't mean the complaint necessarily holds enough water to justify changing the game. As far as high strength coming with short duration... My volt has 293% str (318% with Growing Power) and a 25 second duration. I could make it 28.8s duration if i sacrificed Streamline and Rush. Even if I added Transient Fortitude to the build I would still have 23-24s duration with 333% str (358% growing power). This is with Narrow Minded and only 8.5 m range. Without Narrow Minded it's about 18s duration and 25m range.

I don't think it's actually a factor of Volt having low duration, but more a factor of Volt having a large base energy pool (300 prime), Volt being able to spam press 2, and the ability costing very little energy even with Blind Rage equipped (31 energy for me). Stack that with the desire to add Growing Power procs and recast and Arcane energize or just zenurik keeping us topped off... I do find myself pressing 2 significantly more often than I actually need to... But I also have not had another player ask me to STAHP IT. I sort of go with the assumption that most players appreciate the boost and if they don't they would say so. 

[bubbabenali]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb moodster:

But I also have not had another player ask me to STAHP IT. I sort of go with the assumption that most players appreciate the boost and if they don't they would say so. 

I would be that guy asking you to stop it, if I where in a mission with you... Especially an endless mission where movement isn't needed. But then again I just would leave at the next best moment. Usually I modd my frames for the right amount of speed so having that spamming Volt in my team isn't what I prefer. I'd rather had a Roar spamming Rhino in my team. 

[AltheusV]

I loathe volt speed to the point that, if we had a filter on public groups I would exclude volt. You aren't doing me any favours when you make my warframe run faster than I expect and in to walls and off of ledges. It's not big and it's not clever. Rushing through missions at a ridiculous pace isn't enjoyable either, when I see people doing that I make sure to troll them by waiting for a minute at extraction time.

I backflip out of it and / or stand still when it happens, every volt I've asked to stop doing it has ignored me.

I would love the option to have none of the effects of volt speed affect me.

[Teridax68]

My 2 cents to Speed:

• Any speed-increasing ability should also increase the user's control over their movement and actions in proportion to the speed boost. One of the biggest problems with Speed, as mentioned in the OP, is that it makes one's frame much harder to control, and this I think is precisely because in spite of our increased movement, the speed at which our frames react to our inputs remains unchanged, causing a very large amount of perceived input lag and overall drift (which seems intentional to some extent). If we could move at super-speed, but turn on a dime at the same time, that feeling of control would help significantly in making Speed more palatable to Volt's teammates.
• Any ability that modifies the player's gameplay should be opt-in, period. If players could choose right off the bat whether to be affected by Volt's Speed, or Limbo's Rift, without even needing to opt out first, much of the frustration tied to playing alongside those frames would get eliminated completely, as players could choose to ignore them. How to implement this is a whole other can of worms, particularly since DE tried and failed to make Speed opt-in in the past, but that I think should nonetheless still be the ultimate goal to apply to all ally utility with gameplay modifiers.

[(PSN)Double991]

Capture and Exterminate are exactly the type of missions that you'd want to be doing fast. Especially if it's a void fissure because you can only fit so many runs in with the limited time. If there's 3/4 people at extraction and we're waiting for you then you can bet I'll give you a speed boost. 

There is still a hard limit to how fast a Volt can speed you up. Learning to navigate the map at those speeds takes a little practice is all. One tip I can give you is to stop bullet jumping and just run because it's faster with Speed on.

A simple aim down sights will slow you to a crawl where you can easily aim and shoot.

[DrakeWurrum]

My name is Volt, and I'm the fastest frame alive.

Jokes aside, as a Volt "main" my wife complains about this all the time, since we often duo missions... I'll activate it while we're running and she's instantly face-first into a wall.

I do the same thing when other players use Volt, ironically. I think the main issue is that the speed happens with no warning whatsoever, and suddenly you're face-planting into every obstacle. Even if your brain knows what's happening, your fingers have no idea what's going on. So even if back-flip can remove it... you're still gonna have a bad time with it, even if it's just for a few seconds before you realize what happened.

I personally don't have an issue moving once my mental reflexes have adjusted to the speed change.

What if the speed that affected allies was a gradual speed increase over 5 seconds, giving you time to adjust?

Edited April 23, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[moodster]

I'd like a survey how many players who hate volt speed have a speed volt build or have used one.

If you asked me to stop I would at least only press it once per duration after that... or try to stay away from you as my range is 8.5m. I wouldn't bring a speed volt to an endless mission... I can't imagine many others would either, and again... even if they did, you probably aren't doing much sprinting in an endless mission anyway so it really shouldn't be a problem there. You're welcome to dislike it, and choosing to find a new squad is the appropriate response to be honest. There will always be inconsiderate or ignorant players, nothing you can do about that. Kind of like those players who intentionally stop or refuse to extract...

Nobody said it was clever... It isn't intended to be.

9 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

• Any speed-increasing ability should also increase the user's control over their movement and actions in proportion to the speed boost. One of the biggest problems with Speed, as mentioned in the OP, is that it makes one's frame much harder to control, and this I think is precisely because in spite of our increased movement, the speed at which our frames react to our inputs remains unchanged, causing a very large amount of perceived input lag and overall drift (which seems intentional to some extent). If we could move at super-speed, but turn on a dime at the same time, that feeling of control would help significantly in making Speed more palatable to Volt's teammates.
• Any ability that modifies the player's gameplay should be opt-in, period. If players could choose right off the bat whether to be affected by Volt's Speed, or Limbo's Rift, without even needing to opt out first, much of the frustration tied to playing alongside those frames would get eliminated completely, as players could choose to ignore them. How to implement this is a whole other can of worms, particularly since DE tried and failed to make Speed opt-in in the past, but that I think should nonetheless still be the ultimate goal to apply to all ally utility with gameplay modifiers.

I still think this is just a matter of people not having much experience with it or movement mechanics overall. There are several ways to counteract speed. I'm able to turn on a dime and my inputs are not delayed. If I'm going off in a direction and can't stop with parkour, ground slam. Going faster will never increase your control over anything and it wouldn't make much sense if it did. Like driving faster in a car, it relies on your reaction time and how well you know the road, vehicle, etc... I disagree about "should be opt-in..." even the ones I dislike. I think this is how the game mechanics work and were intended to work, that's how it should work. Any change should be deeper than clicking a button in a menu. If you insist on a strict on/off switch, and if DE were to agree... I think it should be something that makes sense in the context of the game. Like a dispel ability or a gear item you equip/activate that negates/blocks/shields from Warframe abilities... I don't think there should be individual toggles for only the things you dislike. I'd like to toggle off nullifiers and Corpus weirdos and energy leeches... 

[moodster]

2 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

I do the same thing when other players use Volt, ironically. I think the main issue is that the speed happens with no warning whatsoever, and suddenly you're face-planting into every obstacle. Even if your brain knows what's happening, your fingers have no idea what's going on. So even if back-flip can remove it... you're still gonna have a bad time with it, even if it's just the initial activation.

I personally don't have an issue moving once my mental reflexes have adjusted to the speed change.

What if the speed that affected allies was a gradual speed increase over 5 seconds, giving you time to adjust?

I haven't really had that problem when a volt speed boosts me. You do gradually accelerate, albeit over maybe 0.5s. It's funny, I have the opposite opinion, I want the acceleration to be quicker... 5 seconds is quite a long time I think. I will say that obstacles can be very irritating, but that's just a general warframe map design gripe more than a speed gripe. I have obstacle/geometry issues even when I'm on any random slow frame. That lessens significantly the more you know the tilesets though. Especially when you can do a bunny hop and hover across an entire room full of stupid floor obstacles with speed on 😄

[DrakeWurrum]

6 minutes ago, moodster said:

I haven't really had that problem when a volt speed boosts me. You do gradually accelerate, albeit over maybe 0.5s. It's funny, I have the opposite opinion, I want the acceleration to be quicker... 5 seconds is quite a long time I think. I will say that obstacles can be very irritating, but that's just a general warframe map design gripe more than a speed gripe. I have obstacle/geometry issues even when I'm on any random slow frame. That lessens significantly the more you know the tilesets though. Especially when you can do a bunny hop and hover across an entire room full of stupid floor obstacles with speed on 😄

I'm simply thinking that players who have an issue with the speed might have less to complain about it the change is gradual, giving them time to adjust. Assuming they even can adjust, since I guess not everybody has decent hand-eye coordination. Maybe 3 seconds is more reasonable. I just kinda threw out a number.

55 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Any ability that modifies the player's gameplay should be opt-in, period. If players could choose right off the bat whether to be affected by Volt's Speed, or Limbo's Rift, without even needing to opt out first, much of the frustration tied to playing alongside those frames would get eliminated completely, as players could choose to ignore them. How to implement this is a whole other can of worms, particularly since DE tried and failed to make Speed opt-in in the past, but that I think should nonetheless still be the ultimate goal to apply to all ally utility with gameplay modifiers.

I genuinely feel that's the wrong move to make for a multiplayer game, especially a co-op multiplayer game. I get where the desire comes from (we've all played with that one kind of Limbo player...), but if we keep going with that mindset of "That other player's gameplay is too invasive on my own, protect me!" then... we might as well just remove the multiplayer aspect altogether. Though I guess that's why we can solo queue.

Granted, Warframe needs to get better about putting the "co-op" into our co-op gameplay in how we play with the rest of our cell, but I think the ability to opt-out of effects we don't like is simply NOT co-op gameplay.

Edited April 23, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[moodster]

1 minute ago, DrakeWurrum said:

I'm simply thinking that players who have an issue with the speed might have less to complain about it the change is gradual, giving them time to adjust. Assuming they even can adjust, since I guess not everybody has decent hand-eye coordination.

yeah, I mean I get what you're saying. I just think that's robbing peter to pay paul. Some players don't want the speed, other players do. If you make a change that makes the No people happy, but it makes the Yes people angry then you're not solving anything. 

[DrakeWurrum]

Just now, moodster said:

yeah, I mean I get what you're saying. I just think that's robbing peter to pay paul. Some players don't want the speed, other players do. If you make a change that makes the No people happy, but it makes the Yes people angry then you're not solving anything. 

Well it would only be a change to the initial seconds. Maybe even 2 or 3 seconds, rather than 5. Just enough for less-experienced players to adjust to the speed change.

Might be that doing something about the FoV change, as mentioned earlier, would be a big help.

[moodster]

7 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Might be that doing something about the FoV change, as mentioned earlier, would be a big help.

I need to go in game and pay attention to the FOV change, I don't really even notice it. Maybe it's because I have a UltraWide monitor that I don't notice? I also disable motion blur, film grain, depth of field, and camera shake... Those probably reduce the effect significantly, but I'd have to go in and test it.

13 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

I genuinely feel that's the wrong move to make for a multiplayer game, especially a co-op multiplayer game. I get where the desire comes from (we've all played with that one kind of Limbo player...), but if we keep going with that mindset of "That other player's gameplay is too invasive on my own, protect me!" then... we might as well just remove the multiplayer aspect altogether. Though I guess that's why we can solo queue.

Granted, Warframe needs to get better about putting the "co-op" into our co-op gameplay in how we play with the rest of our cell, but I think the ability to opt-out of effects we don't like is simply NOT co-op gameplay.

I like how you worded that, I agree...

Edited April 23, 2019 by moodster

[Teridax68]

41 minutes ago, moodster said:

I still think this is just a matter of people not having much experience with it or movement mechanics overall. There are several ways to counteract speed. I'm able to turn on a dime and my inputs are not delayed. If I'm going off in a direction and can't stop with parkour, ground slam. Going faster will never increase your control over anything and it wouldn't make much sense if it did. Like driving faster in a car, it relies on your reaction time and how well you know the road, vehicle, etc... I disagree about "should be opt-in..." even the ones I dislike. I think this is how the game mechanics work and were intended to work, that's how it should work. Any change should be deeper than clicking a button in a menu. If you insist on a strict on/off switch, and if DE were to agree... I think it should be something that makes sense in the context of the game. Like a dispel ability or a gear item you equip/activate that negates/blocks/shields from Warframe abilities... I don't think there should be individual toggles for only the things you dislike. I'd like to toggle off nullifiers and Corpus weirdos and energy leeches... 

Except nullifiers, Energy leeches, etc., are there to deliberately inconvenience the player, or at least pose some sort of obstacle to their progress: if you are genuinely placing a utility effect from an ally on the same level as a deliberately harmful effect from an enemy, then something is very wrong with the design of your utility effect. Similarly, it's all very nice to talk about how it "wouldn't make much sense" for the player to not lose some degree of control when moving at high speed... but no thanks. If you really insist on it, you can have your little minigame of drifting through levels, while I can play the game properly without a teammate forcing me to play their own. It seems like my intended way of playing the game does not require anyone else to bend their playstyle to my whims, whereas yours does.

37 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

I genuinely feel that's the wrong move to make for a multiplayer game, especially a co-op multiplayer game. I get where the desire comes from (we've all played with that one kind of Limbo player...), but if we keep going with that mindset of "That other player's gameplay is too invasive on my own, protect me!" then... we might as well just remove the multiplayer aspect altogether. Though I guess that's why we can solo queue.

Granted, Warframe needs to get better about putting the "co-op" into our co-op gameplay in how we play with the rest of our cell, but I think the ability to opt-out of effects we don't like is simply NOT co-op gameplay.

I mean... why not? If the only way Warframe can apply "co-op" is by having players force each other to do things they don't want to do, like some amateur hour LARP, then it may as well not have co-op. This is not, by the way, what I'm suggesting, because there are a ton of utility effects that don't force the player to play differently, like healing, protection buffs, damage buffs, etc., that don't at all feel intrusive in the same way as Volt's Speed or Limbo's Rift. I am perfectly fine with players assisting each other, and in fact I think that's an essential component to multiplayer, but then again, I want players to benefit each other, not force each other to bend around a minigame. Even if the player understands or likes the mechanic they're being forced into, the simple fact that one is being imposed a gameplay change by a teammate without one's consent is already a dealbreaker to many people.

To put this even more simply, I think the only effects that one player can add to another without the latter needing to opt in are effects with no downsides: dealing more damage obviously has no real downside, nor does damage mitigation. Large movement speed buffs with no increases in control, on the other hand, cause players to lurch and swerve out of control, whereas the Rift outright prevents players from using most of their weapons properly against enemies. These effects can be really powerful and fun to use if done right, but can also mess up the player's gameplay. If the player were to opt into that sort of effect, the responsibility would be on them if they mess up. Forcing those players to experience that effect without them opting in, however, puts the responsibility onto the player who applied the effect, which causes that player to get blamed even if they were trying to help. It would thus be healthier for everyone, including those playing frames with those utility effects, if more disruptive utility were made opt-in by default.

[moodster]

3 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Except nullifiers, Energy leeches, etc., are there to deliberately inconvenience the player, or at least pose some sort of obstacle to their progress: if you are genuinely placing a utility effect from an ally on the same level as a deliberately harmful effect from an enemy, then something is very wrong with the design of your utility effect. Similarly, it's all very nice to talk about how it "wouldn't make much sense" for the player to not lose some degree of control when moving at high speed... but no thanks. If you really insist on it, you can have your little minigame of drifting through levels, while I can play the game properly without a teammate forcing me to play their own. It seems like my intended way of playing the game does not require anyone else to bend their playstyle to my whims, whereas yours does.

oh relax, it was obvious hyperbole...I'm not putting them in the same plane, you people complaining about it are. Play the game "Properly"? So the proper way to play is your way? I think you've got this backwards. What the OP is asking for is literally forcing his desired "playstyle" on everyone else. There are already several ways to reduce, mitigate, completely eliminate Volt's speed effects on yourself... backflip, don't sprint, stay away, sharp direction change slows momentum, quick 180 degree direction change stops movement, letting go of W instantly stops momentum (if on ground), bullet jumping more often reduces momentum from volt speed, ground slam stops all momentum and is aimable now, aimglide slows your movement, quick melee drops your momentum back down to normal speed with most stances, right click/aim drops you down to normal speed and kills momentum, ask him to stop, find a new squad, play solo, etc etc... I'm not forcing anything on anyone and I have offered a few realistic and constructive options. I haven't seen anyone else offer anything except "I don't like it, give me an off switch."

"increase in control" is a nonsense term. You can't turn any faster than instantly and it already is instant. It's got nothing to do with being "nice to talk about"... Your "control" is finite no matter what speed you move and there is no delay. The limiting factor is your reaction time, your familiarity with those finite controls and familiarity with the tileset. Also, I did not say it reduces control, I said increased speed cannot possibly increase control. It's not how physics works. There is no "mini-game" It's just walk/sprint speed. Volt doesn't really drift, Nezha drifts. Volt runs. I'm sorry, but if you are drifting past your turn, that is a matter of your familiarity with in game movement mechanics. 

and Finally, did you actually read what I wrote? Stop being angry for a second and read. I clearly offered a suggestion of an in game gear item that you can activate to dispel or nullify ally warframe abilities on yourself in the same paragraph that you quoted. So please tell me again how exactly I am forcing my whims on you...

Look, I get it... You hate Volt's speed buff... but, It's really just not that serious.

There is a big problem with your view on this... "Downsides" are subjective. Volt's speed has no downsides for me whether I am Volt or any other frame... I don't think you understand how limbo actually works (it doesn't affect weapons/projectiles) and that is where a lot of these frustrations come from I feel... Lack of understanding. Opting out of Limbo wouldn't even work... You want to be able to shoot through planes of existence? Or you don't want banish to work on you? That's another one that is practically cheating and easily exploited.

Edited April 23, 2019 by moodster