The game is too monotonous with maps

[IllogicalLogic420]

The idea is great: RNG to make "maps that are never the same" but this is only like a half-RNG rather than full.

Layouts of maps stay generally the same, with maybe some rooms moved around, or some areas locked by some doors one time, then unlocked another time, to give the illusion of "it's a different map" and it just makes the game so.....stale, repetitive, and boring.

The maps are great. Beautiful, even. Very enjoyable the first time through. Very enjoyable the next 10 times through.....but then it hits a wall, and becomes "oh, the same old crap, but its a little different, barely noticed".

If you need someone to hand create maps/levels, I'll volunteer. Idc. I know you're still fairly small and need employees. You can only do so much with so many people. That's why I'm offering to help. I've done this for many video games and can provide all the necessary proof and documentation.

But this game really needs handplaced/created maps because there's no real diversity.

You have a nice goal, but you kinda missed it. You missed it because, players shouldnt be able to learn a maps general layout in a few goes, or even one go, if your goal "is to create a unique playing experience each time with different maps" or whatever it is you said.

So, all in all, good work, you deserve much praise, seriously. But, it's time something is done to completely reach that goal.

[Chewarette]

How the heck did DE "missed their goal" ? Do you have an idea how successful Warframe is right now ?

Sorry to be rude but they don't need you. They're doing an amazing job and the random map generation is simply awesome. Maybe you're the best designer the world has ever seen, but you'll never be able to design 200 unique maps (that would be a minimum for it to "not be repetitive", and even if you could, in the end it would be repetitive as well).

Seems like you bought way too many Pedestal Prime.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Chewarette

[IllogicalLogic420]

1 minute ago, Chewarette said:

How the heck did DE "missed their goal" ? Do you have an idea how successful Warframe is right now ?

Sorry to be rude but they don't need you. They're doing an amazing job and the random map generation is simply awesome. Maybe you're the best designer the world has ever seen, but you'll never be able to design 200 unique maps (that would be a minimum for it to "not be repetitive", and even if you could, in the end it would be repetitive as well).

Seems like you bought way too many Pedestal Prime.

Lol congratz on playing yourself by acting the way you did and jumping to a conclusion that isnt even there.

I said what I meant by goal. Learn to read and comprehend.

And by "unique" .... yeah sure, barely, as explained in my post.

DE does need people, so, uh, try again.

Seems like you posted one too many comments, time for you to go to bed and sleep this off before you embarrass yourself some more.

[AvPCelticPredator]

16 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

How the heck did DE "missed their goal" ? Do you have an idea how successful Warframe is right now ?

They are miss, I completely agreed with OP.

DEVS need one employer who will always work on maps, for every new "UPDATE" here I mean that the guy working on changing maps experience, we dont want to play whole year same maps over and over, thats becomes boring. I want from every new update to get several new maps which I will play and explored, that will give me good feeling that I playing something completely new and different.

Here is for example:
You and me and all other players playing void fissures, all that missions are the same, all locations and maps are always the same, they just repeating over and over and they are so so boring, same is with sorties and all other things.

So, where is in the game something new?
There is no have anything new exept, fortuna, nightwave, onslaught, arbitration and plains, but the same maps repeating in arbitration and onslaught too.

Maybe u have fun with that but me, whos MR 26 I dont, and now I'm playing the game about 30 min every day cuz i was lose motivation to play the game, and no have new challenges for me, there is have only for new players.

Players with huge MR cannot enjoyed anymore.

[Chewarette]

1 hour ago, AvPCelticPredator said:

They are miss, I completely agreed with OP.

DEVS need one employer who will always work on maps, for every new "UPDATE" here I mean that the guy working on changing maps experience, we dont want to play whole year same maps over and over, thats becomes boring. I want from every new update to get several new maps which I will play and explored, that will give me good feeling that I playing something completely new and different.

Here is for example:
You and me and all other players playing void fissures, all that missions are the same, all locations and maps are always the same, they just repeating over and over and they are so so boring, same is with sorties and all other things.

So, where is in the game something new?
There is no have anything new exept, fortuna, nightwave, onslaught, arbitration and plains, but the same maps repeating in arbitration and onslaught too.

Maybe u have fun with that but me, whos MR 26 I dont, and now I'm playing the game about 30 min every day cuz i was lose motivation to play the game, and no have new challenges for me, there is have only for new players.

Players with huge MR cannot enjoyed anymore.

You would need at least 2.000 unique maps for "MR26/27 with thousands of /played" to not feel repetitiveness. Which isn't feasible at all, and anyway the maps would, in the end, all be the same except some small detail, so in the end, boring as well. There is NO game that achieve that, because devs are better used somewhere else than endlessly creating bland maps.

Procedural generated maps are a great solution. You feel bored after 20k hours ? How surprising, you'd be bored exactly the same if every single node was different from one another.

Plus, do you know what "unique nodes" lead to ? Simple. "Oh no, not [insert random node here], I hate this map". See Stephano, for example.

Finally, to finish, this guy "blames" DE who seem to suck or not know how to achieve goals, while they make millions, and he has to beg on their forums to get a job. Sounds weird imo, if he was that talented, he would have a job already (or he would knew you don't apply for a job through a forum post, lol).

Edited April 9, 2019 by Chewarette

[Basalto]

7 hours ago, Chewarette said:

How the heck did DE "missed their goal"? Do you have an idea how successful Warframe is right now?

Because money is the goal and entertainment is secondary nowadays. I don't even share OP's issue with the repetitive maps, as I believe it lies somewhere else, even more in the core, but... man, your sentence exhales ignorance regarding the difference between a game and a product.

[Chewarette]

1 minute ago, Basalto said:

Because money is the goal and entertainment is secondary nowadays. I don't even share OP's issue with the repetitive maps, as I believe it lies somewhere else, even more in the core, but... man, your sentence exhales ignorance regarding the difference between a game and a product.

If the game sucked, it wouldn't be successful I guess.

[Basalto]

2 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

If the game sucked, it wouldn't be successful I guess.

Call of Duty.

[AvPCelticPredator]

7 hours ago, Chewarette said:

You feel bored after 20k hours ?

I'm already bored, I dont need 20k hours to be there, cuz right now I'm just 1 MR far away to reach MR 27, and I was finish everything what I can in this game, so for me and similar players MR 26-27 dont have anymore challenges.

So, if DEVS wanna keep old veteran players in their game active, I mean more active like newbies are, they need to make for us for huge MR players challenges which will keep us active and give us something to play.

Right now I can guarantee that 90% players whos MR27 just login in the game to sell their stuff to synd for standing, do daily challenges for nightwave, say hello to clan mates and leave from the game to play something else.

U cannot denied that is not like I was just say!

[uiop2000]

MR 9 here.

Slightly over 594 hours in, that's about 24.75 days straight of just playing.

I would like to know what counts as "End-Game".

I cleared all the cinematic story quests, unlocked every planet and geared myself with a full set of prime (or similar strength) gear with a riven.

I have not been bored yet.

[AvPCelticPredator]

31 minutes ago, uiop2000 said:

I would like to know what counts as "End-Game".

For me after u clear whole star chart system (Clear all missions, all quests), then rank up all your weapons and frames, reach MR 27+ then you dont have anything else to grind in the game u are reach maximum. Whatever u try to play will become bored to you really quickly and u will quit the game after awhile, cuz there is no have any challenges in the game which will attract u to stay and play more.

I'm so close to reach my maximum just 1 MR divide me to reach MR 27 and I'm done with the game.

That's the end of the game!

[Methanoid]

Steve mentioned once on his old new player runthrough on twitch various notes he was making while playing from the start as a new player, one such thing was updating the corpus tileset which we are getting, another thing he mused on was the tedium brought in with the map generation and he voiced that maybe having procedurally generated inner room changes could be a "thing" instead of just whole room segments being procedurally generated like now, which would give more variety to each room segment.

That sounded awesome, but no idea if their going to do that or just dump it in favor of big old open world stuff that takes longer to make, i know id prefer inner room segment variety, we spend most of the game in those lego generated maps after all.

[IllogicalLogic420]

Oh boy. Great feedback, I hope everyone is doing well ❤️

Yes, there's many ways the maps could be improved and I'm eversoglad that Steve and the rest of the DE team are investigating this to improve upon it.

I also think, as I stated before, that hand-made maps would create a wealth of variety and possibly encourage exploration instead of beaming through a map like sonic on crack.

The problem is, finding someone willing to do it. Which I am.

I'm not belittling DE or anything. Chewarette needs to take a chill pill or something. It's almost as if he's here looking for something to start.

[NezuHimeSama]

The problem with "hand made" maps is that they're only fun the first few times, and then get even more repetitive and boring than the randomly generated maps. There's certainly improvements to be made to the way maps work, but that's not always easy to do. But, I think, finding a way to make maps loop in on themselves would probably be a huge step forward. Being able to go forward and wind up back where you started, but coming from a new angle is a pretty wonderful thing, especially with how it could grant access to new parts of the tile.

Maybe if we had some more flexibility in linking tiles together, such as with adaptive door placement(ie, an object with the door attached that can be moved within the tile based on where exactly the next room is linked) or adaptable transitionary tiles, we could have rooms properly linked in circles, and from there, by feeling out the walkable space, things like lock and key mechanics, or opening up shortcuts back to the start can be done.

Variable height elevators and variable length connective halls could also do a lot to smooth things over.

[IllogicalLogic420]

2 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

The problem with "hand made" maps is that they're only fun the first few times, and then get even more repetitive and boring than the randomly generated maps. There's certainly improvements to be made to the way maps work, but that's not always easy to do. But, I think, finding a way to make maps loop in on themselves would probably be a huge step forward. Being able to go forward and wind up back where you started, but coming from a new angle is a pretty wonderful thing, especially with how it could grant access to new parts of the tile.

Maybe if we had some more flexibility in linking tiles together, such as with adaptive door placement(ie, an object with the door attached that can be moved within the tile based on where exactly the next room is linked) or adaptable transitionary tiles, we could have rooms properly linked in circles, and from there, by feeling out the walkable space, things like lock and key mechanics, or opening up shortcuts back to the start can be done.

Variable height elevators and variable length connective halls could also do a lot to smooth things over.

I like your ideas. What if hand-made was combined with procedural? The procedural system would pick from hand made stuff and place it accordingly/randomly, and maybe even change the hand made stuff around a bit.

Fully pathable venting systems that you can sneak around the entire map with, going under the floor in small crevices and popping up somewhere to surprise the enemy. And much more.
While the game provides something like this, it's just so.....lacking. There's not really any incentive to explore the maps and try to seek out every inch to what could be there or what could benefit your travels.

[NezuHimeSama]

The vents are a great idea, since it would be easy to procedurally link things with something small, repeating, and largely invisible. Especially, they could do that without any significant modification to map generation, since they could be used to retroactively back-link various parts of the map, and could even allow for new segments of map so it's not just an endless tree of waist-high tunnels.

Also, there are hand-made maps. Specifically, each tile is hand-made with some variations for linking to different tiles, and some missions have a fixed set of tiles, as well as the completely fixed "open world" areas and communal zones. I think the random map generator is actually based on a seed, too, otherwise everyone would have to download the entire generated map configuration individually each map load, so technically, bad seeds can be flagged and disallowed.

But, certain repeating configurations of "puzzle sets" of tiles, with a few values changing between them but a fixed configuration taken from a library of miniature tile configurations is also a great idea, and could help ease things through, so it's not so rigidly connected via tunnels or awkward connective maps and variable-height doors. Currently, though, I think the biggest issue for map variety is that the tiles themselves aren't very flexible, and the solution that's been employed so far is to just have bigger tiles that are designed to look/feel like multiple smaller tiles connected "organically".

Edited April 10, 2019 by NezuHimeSama

[IllogicalLogic420]

2 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

The vents are a great idea, since it would be easy to procedurally link things with something small, repeating, and largely invisible. Especially, they could do that without any significant modification to map generation, since they could be used to retroactively back-link various parts of the map, and could even allow for new segments of map so it's not just an endless tree of waist-high tunnels.

Also, there are hand-made maps. Specifically, each tile is hand-made with some variations for linking to different tiles, and some missions have a fixed set of tiles, as well as the completely fixed "open world" areas and communal zones. I think the random map generator is actually based on a seed, too, otherwise everyone would have to download the entire generated map configuration individually each map load, so technically, bad seeds can be flagged and disallowed.

But, certain repeating configurations of "puzzle sets" of tiles, with a few values changing between them but a fixed configuration taken from a library of miniature tile configurations is also a great idea, and could help ease things through, so it's not so rigidly connected via tunnels or awkward connective maps and variable-height doors.

Yes, good! This would also allow for many more options to navigate the map and possible avoid having to deal with buggy map markers by taking shortcuts through what otherwise would be walls/deadends, maybe.

Yeah that was a piss poor explanation of what I meant (im talking about me, i messed up). I did however mention further that its very lacking. I guess what i meant to say was up the ante on handmaking maps and parts for procedural generation. More-so on the maps that suffer from the almost non-existent and sometimes completely non-existent randomization, as some one here mentioned.

Please accept my apologies, i have a lot going on IRL right now and its hard to gather my thoughts. I'm trying to relax and get away from all that here, and it's slowly working.

[uiop2000]

18 hours ago, AvPCelticPredator said:

reach MR 27+

So MR 27 means end-game? I just want to make sure I'm understanding this right, as the cap for Riven requirements is MR 16, there aren't any weapons or frames left to unlock after MR 15, and I'm at MR 9 doing sorties, sanctuary onslaught (elite) and the occasional T4 void. Kinda struggling to see what's beyond that (other than fashion-frame).

[IllogicalLogic420]

28 minutes ago, uiop2000 said:

So MR 27 means end-game? I just want to make sure I'm understanding this right, as the cap for Riven requirements is MR 16, there aren't any weapons or frames left to unlock after MR 15, and I'm at MR 9 doing sorties, sanctuary onslaught (elite) and the occasional T4 void. Kinda struggling to see what's beyond that (other than fashion-frame).

Lol there is no end game. For this game, you make your own end game.

This game is the never ending world of Tenno, always providing more content, as if it were a second life for us.

[uiop2000]

Just now, IllogicalLogic420 said:

Lol there is no end game. For this game, you make your own end game.

This game is the never ending world of Tenno, always providing more content, as if it were a second life for us.

LOL, yeah that's kinda of why I asked. I have no idea if I count as being a high end player or kind of a noob.

[Unimira]

I wonder what the lore is behind both Grineer and Corpus ship design. The maps look like there has been some sort of dimensional disaster that completely scrambled the layout.

On a more serious note, shouldn't (especially) the ship levels have some sort of standard design to go by and only offer minor variations (open doors, vent shortcuts etc.).

As for the rest of the maps I find it a bit silly that they reuse the same tile/room repeatedly and even link them side by side, there is also no random elements inside the rooms themselves (props are always in the same places).

Basically I'm agreeing with the OP that the map generation/level design needs some love, I'd be more hyped for that Railjack or whatever the next big thing they are working on.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

Is this a game about exploration, or grinding loot? Why does it matter if the maps all look the same? This isn't a game about seeing the sights. It's about completing objectives to get loot.

[AvPCelticPredator]

9 hours ago, uiop2000 said:

So MR 27 means end-game? I just want to make sure I'm understanding this right, as the cap for Riven requirements is MR 16, there aren't any weapons or frames left to unlock after MR 15, and I'm at MR 9 doing sorties, sanctuary onslaught (elite) and the occasional T4 void. Kinda struggling to see what's beyond that (other than fashion-frame).

If u visit Cephalon Simaris right side of the doors u will see it MR training camp, the last one of all MR is 29-30.

Right now ppl doesnt haev enough stuff to increases their MR more to pass all this way and reach maximum, here I mean maximum MR 29-30.

So, veteran players whos rank up all stuff they only waiting new stuff (Weapons and frames) to rank them and get new affinity for next rank.

Like I said before I'm so close to MR27, just few more stuff to rank up and I can do MR test to get MR27 and that's all, I cant get enough weapons and frames to pass to next MR, cuz there is no more weap and frames in the game from where I can get more affinity if u understand what I'm talking to you.

Riven MR limitation is something else, and that doesnt have nothing with MR affinity. That is just limitation that newbies who get powerful weapon dont get on low or mid-lvl OP rivens where they will have OP weapons. That riven limitation making some kind of balance in the game but in my own opinion making more negative effects than positive, cuz ppl can got weap with strong riven disposition on low MR with riven requirement of 8 or 9 with OP stats and have OP weapon. But on huge MR u can got weap with low disposition with riven requirement of 15+ with really sucks riven stats which wont make from your weapon nothing, will just change your weap stats for 1-2%

DEVS trying to make some balance about rivens and other stuff but like this, like I was saw in last months they wont make anything good, we will have more worst things, that's just my opinion.

So, buddy play and give yourself some motivation (Reach maximum, reach me or other players) then u will see it, and dont forget to come here after few months to tell us your experience, I want to know what u would have to say then!

Good luck and have fun!

[NezuHimeSama]

11 hours ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Is this a game about exploration, or grinding loot? Why does it matter if the maps all look the same? This isn't a game about seeing the sights. It's about completing objectives to get loot.

Actually, in spite of it's lacking implementation, there's a lot of exploration in Warframe, from finding Kurias, to hidden rooms in all the tilesets, to the Parkour end rooms that still don't have anything useful in them.

It's very clear that exploration is a constant undertone of Warframe. There was even a recent event all about exploration and scanning S#&$. It wasn't a very good one, but that's what topics like these are all about; how can we make it better to explore in Warframe. Though, I think exploration needs both more interesting larger map design, and better rewards for exploration. After all, PSO had fixed tile configurations with "random"(iirc, based on character level, or total level of all characters, or something) selection outside of quests, and specific quest sets/modifications, but it wasn't fun to explore beyond "get to the boss" because there was just nothing there. Boxes rarely dropped anything rare, and even when they did, it was trash tier, so box hunting was rather pointless, and combined with the instance-based dungeons, making everything nonpermanent anyway, made exploration unrewarding.

[(NSW)Blastyboy]

I'm a new player to be fair...but honestly...I find some of the procedural generated maps just a bit...nonsensical sometimes? 

 

There's the places often off from the extraction points can't get anywhere near if playing Solo. Some paths being horribly obscured and confusing to get to as a newbie...even though looks obvious on the map.

 

Grineer hiding in random corridors backwards from your starting point and then continually flooding this tiny corridor from nowhere.

 

I am always all for stronger level layout over randomized oddities. With Warframe for example...where it's kinda random but often heading down similar corridors to the same tile space anyway.