[Maiming Strike] and Dominant Strategy - Why [Maiming Strike] Hurts Warframe as a Whole

[Cubewano]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Katsuro said:

Logic doesn't work in forums...

You could make an effort though instead of just bitter retorts. 

[Cubewano]

8 hours ago, bibmobello said:

Maiming is not overpowered alone, the issue is when you combine it with a riven to reach insane critical values.

Another (unfair)big advantage is when you have absurd range values, you can have the same range(and more) of some fire weapons and at the same time you have a 360 hitting area.

On the other side some weapons are pure crap without it.

But it is immensely powerful in a number of combinations regardless, with or without a riven. 

So the question becomes, do we adjust all the values it breaks in interaction with so that it can remain how it is, or do we adjust the source so it doesn't clash so much? For or against the level of power this mod can allow, I don't think balancing around a specific mod to maintain a power curve is a good solution. Of course power balance can be adjusted if deemed lacking after or even along such changes, but we don't need another mandatory mod of sorts further bogging down what little creative input the mod system has left. 

[bibmobello]

4 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

But it is immensely powerful in a number of combinations regardless, with or without a riven. 

 So the question becomes, do we adjust all the values it breaks in interaction with so that it can remain how it is, or do we adjust the source so it doesn't clash so much? For or against the level of power this mod can allow, I don't think balancing around a specific mod to maintain a power curve is a good solution. Of course power balance can be adjusted if deemed lacking after or even along such changes, but we don't need another mandatory mod of sorts further bogging down what little creative input the mod system has left. 

I think the solution is pretty simple:

1) Should some mods be mandatory? No.

2) Should some players feel unpowered because they use other configurations? No.

Just let play few beta testers and put a a cooldown timer on maiming strike or just remove combos because they are just useless.

Edited July 3, 2019 by bibmobello

[EnvoyOne]

10 hours ago, nslay said:

Looking at your video, I am a bit surprised that you can so easily maneuver and slide attack together. It's as if you're walking... just spinning. That's a really convoluted way of moving and attacking...

Did you ever once consider that maybe slide attack wasn't meant to be used that way? And that maybe there's actually something wrong with such a sophisticated physical maneuver offering the movement flexibility you've demonstrated? I honestly think that's what is broken. I can just imagine carpal tunnel syndrome doing that. And that you can move very precisely between point A and point B spinning like that?

I don't know man... I just do the strategic slide attack once or twice to get my Berserker buff up. Never once occurred to me that you should be able to spin around and maneuver as if you were walking. It just makes no physical sense that you can do that... Though I guess there's a lot of parkour stuff that makes no sense either.

I have not just considered that slide attacks should not be used in this way, I'm actively trying to illustrate that doing so hurts Warframe's entire basic game-play-loop. It is broken, and in this case, MS is further incentivizing and even rewards this type of game-play. Ultimately, this is what I want changed.

[EnvoyOne]

6 hours ago, ADDpillz said:

I never understood why people care so much about how OTHER people play a PVE game.

If you don't like maiming strike...don't use it.

You dont need to start a nerf crusade because other people don't play the way you do.

 

I literally never ask them to "nerf" MS in the entire post.

[EnvoyOne]

6 hours ago, Alpha56 said:

@JaxMess, the Author of the topic.

Complaining about maiming strike, but at the same time having Mesa as most used warframe ?

Mesa : used 26.7%  / xp 308.000.000 / kills 245.000

Saryn prime : used 4.3% / xp 157.000.000 / kills 218.000

Secura Lecta : used 23.7% / xp 112.000.000 / kills 97.000 (i bet you weren't using maiming on your secura lecta right ?))

Complaining about maiming strike but having the auto aim bot warframe mesa as main, as the most used warframe with 245k kills, and the nuke frame saryn with 218k kills, that trivalise the melee thing, by very very far ?

Sorry but... how ironic is that ?

Just look again at the title of the topic : 

[Maiming Strike] and Dominant Strategy - Why [Maiming Strike] Hurts Warframe as a Whole

 

I never once asked them to "nerf" MS. This post isn't even about it's damage. It's about the health of the Melee system within Warfame and it's overall contribution to the health of the game as a whole. It's baffling to me how many people post responses without having read even a little of the original post. Also, is this some kind of personal attack on my play-style, I don't understand what this response is trying to accomplish?

[ADDpillz]

13 minutes ago, JaxMess said:

I have not just considered that slide attacks should not be used in this way, I'm actively trying to illustrate that doing so hurts Warframe's entire basic game-play-loop. It is broken, and in this case, MS is further incentivizing and even rewards this type of game-play. Ultimately, this is what I want changed.

For such a "broken" game, there are sure a lot of people playing it.

You still have not explained how other people using maiming strike has negatively affected YOUR gameplay.

Is it because those darned maiming strike users keep getting 18% higher total damage value on mission summary screens? 

This is a PVE mod in a PVE game.

Everyone has the same objective: Kill the other guys.

If this was a PVP mod in a PVP game I could understand.

I still cant fathom how people such as yourself care THIS much about how other players achieve a SHARED goal.

Edited July 3, 2019 by ADDpillz

[EnvoyOne]

5 hours ago, Ver1dian said:

OP you're really close to the mark in my opinion, but it's not Maiming Strike, it's slide in general.

For one it enhances mobility, we get to targets faster and it's rather precise, because we either kill them and continue on, or bump into them for the kill. Unlike combo attacks, where we often jump over a target.

Another reason - reach. While range is static, slide attack does damage in a circle and it being entirely horizontal gives it more reach than standard attacks, making it able to hit everything near the frame, something not guaranteed for other attacks.

It also deals more damage.

I've often noticed 2 things about myself. 1 - I often use slide attacks, MS or not and 2 - every so often when I want to combo there are always 1-2 enemies that just don't get hit from the group, so I resort to slide once more.

Ultimately I don't believe that MS is a dominant strategy, slide is just an overall better attack, 90% critical is icing. But rather than "fix" that, DE should just add effects to combo attacks to raise them on the same level, otherwise you'd run the risk of removing this dominant strategy, but also leaving melee barely used by the majority.

I agree completely.

Basing my argument around MS is apparently a touchy subject for the forums, when ultimately it's only tangentially related to the base changes that I'd like to see. Perhaps I'll start a new post focusing on what I'd like to see out of Melee 3.0 as a complete picture.

[EnvoyOne]

12 minutes ago, ADDpillz said:

For such a "broken" game, there are sure a lot of people playing it.

You still have not explained how other people using maiming strike has negativily affected YOUR gameplay.

Is it because those darned maiming strike users keep getting 18% higher total damage value on mission summary screens? 

This is a PVE mod in a PVE game.

Everyone has the same objective: Kill the other guys.

If this was a PVP mod in a PVP game I could understand.

I still cant fathom how people such as yourself care THIS much about how other players achieve a SHARED goal.

For as harsh as I assume your trying to be with this response, I actually agree with you on many levels.

To your first point, I want even more people to play Warframe and offering a more robust melee system helps facilitate that, in my opinion. To be clear, this whole post is just my opinion, because of course it is, who else's opinion would I otherwise have other than my own?

To your second point, I was hoping that my parallel example of how the Tonkor was used previously would satisfy how other people using it negatively affects, not just my game-play, but everyone's. You're right, however, basing this experience on something that was changed years ago leaves many people out on that assumed experience.

To your third point, I have long taken issue with the "Total Damage" tally at the end screen for several reasons, but no, I couldn't care less about the end-screen tally. I'm not competing with my squad for most kills or highest damage.

I agree with your comment about PvP, which is why I brought up PvP and DS in the earlier part of the post. Something like this would ruin a PvP experience completely, and because it's primarily a PvE game it is ultimately less important. But as I've stated before, I want Warframe to get better and better, and I believe a more robust Melee system is a strong component of achieving that goal.

Edited July 3, 2019 by JaxMess
Clarity

[.Dracula.]

Maiming strike isn't even as good as a Zaw with condition overload and literally only works on weapons with a lot of range. Until melee weapons get universal range increase I see no reason to change maiming strike.

[DeMonkey]

7 hours ago, Alpha56 said:

@JaxMess, the Author of the topic.

Complaining about maiming strike, but at the same time having Mesa as most used warframe ?

Mesa : used 26.7%  / xp 308.000.000 / kills 245.000

Saryn prime : used 4.3% / xp 157.000.000 / kills 218.000

Secura Lecta : used 23.7% / xp 112.000.000 / kills 97.000 (i bet you weren't using maiming on your secura lecta right ?))

Complaining about maiming strike but having the auto aim bot warframe mesa as main, as the most used warframe with 245k kills, and the nuke frame saryn with 218k kills, that trivalise the melee thing, by very very far ?

Sorry but... how ironic is that ?

That's potentially the biggest and most unnecessary ad hominem I think I've ever seen on the forums.

[ADDpillz]

26 minutes ago, JaxMess said:

For as harsh as I assume your trying to be with this response, I actually agree with you on many levels.

To your first point, I want even more people to play Warframe and offering a more robust melee system helps facilitate that, in my opinion. To be clear, this whole post is just my opinion, because of course it is, who else's opinion would I otherwise have other than my own?

To your second point, I was hoping that my parallel example of how the Tonkor would satisfy how other people using it negatively affects, not just my game-play, but everyone's. You're right, however, basing this experience on something that was changed years ago leaves many people out on that assumed experience.

To your third point, I have long taken issue with the "Total Damage" tally at the end screen for several reasons, but no, I couldn't care less about the end-screen tally. I'm not competing with my squad for most kills or highest damage.

I agree with your comment about PvP, which is why I brought up PvP and DS in the earlier part of the post. Something like this would ruin a PvP experience completely, and because it's primarily a PvE game it is ultimately less important. But as I've stated before, I want Warframe to get better and better, and I believe a more robust Melee system is a strong component of achieving that goal.

Im being harsh because your topic is not "lets make alternative forms of melee combat thats just as viable as maiming strike" it's "lets nerf maiming strike because its the most viable gameplay style and everyone uses it"

1hr in a arbitration survivlal; your swarmed by heavy units that have rediculously scaling armor, a repertoire of spammable knock-downs, grabs, damage tickking auras, toxic breath attacks that will 1HKO you with Quick thinking + Rage equipped, and sometimes even invulnerabilty from the arbitration drones that short ranged weapons cant even reach.

Traditional melee in the late game is suicide unless you are a tank frame.

Guerrilla style melee is literally the only option many squishier frames have in endurance runs.

Maiming strike allows you to get in, hit hard, then get out of range from the litany of knockdown spam that the heavies are going to counter you with.

If you take maiming strike away without fixing the core issues with how enemies scale in this game then the outcome will become even worst than how you preceive it to be now.

We will have LESS viable endgame weapons.

Maiming strike makes many completely forgotten weapons (Keshegg Im looking at you) viable beyond mastery fodder.

Most crit focused weapons will be forgotten (again) and everyone will move back to the orginal traditional condition overload status spamming melee meta it was before.

Then we will have new threads asking DE to nerf condition overload because its the new perceived meta.

I agree that we need a more viable melee system.

But we dont need to remove other options to create more options. We just need more options.

 

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by ADDpillz

[Cubewano]

39 minutes ago, ADDpillz said:

For such a "broken" game, there are sure a lot of people playing it.

You still have not explained how other people using maiming strike has negatively affected YOUR gameplay.

Is it because those darned maiming strike users keep getting 18% higher total damage value on mission summary screens? 

This is a PVE mod in a PVE game.

Everyone has the same objective: Kill the other guys.

If this was a PVP mod in a PVP game I could understand.

I still cant fathom how people such as yourself care THIS much about how other players achieve a SHARED goal.

Yet the devs agree the balance of this game is an absolute horror, and players are constantly at ends with the games balance and design choices as a result of said balance. I guess you know better than the community and the devs on this game however? 

This game isn't balanced around that level of dps and it functionally kills actual co-operative play. High range aoe insta kills have turned playing with others into a game of be the hard carry or be the carried because the content can't keep up with the pace of a single meta player let alone a group. It is also part of a broader progression in design choices by DE that rely heavily on cheese mechanics like iframes, bullet sponges, and enemy cc spam, that are forced onto all of us regardless of if we used these metas or not as a means of combating these extreme high performance tools. 

Low balling sure depending on the other persons interest in being on meta, but yes I imagine people not being able to be involved in the gameplay of a game they are in with the expectation to play could be an argument against. 

It's a badly balanced mod. 

True.

Balance benefits all games, not just pvp ones. 

You seem to be showing similar zeal if not more as far as opinions on this matter go. And it's bold to assume your satisfiaction/goal is reflective of everyones views. 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Cubewano

[EnvoyOne]

1 minute ago, ADDpillz said:

Im being harsh because your topic is not "lets make alternative forms of melee combat thats just as viable as maiming strike" it's "lets nerf maiming strike because its the most viable gameplay style and everyone uses it"

1hr in a arbitration survivlal; your swarmed by heavy units that have rediculously scaling armor and a repertoire of spammable knock-downs, grabs, damage tickking auras, and sometimes even invulnerabilty.

Traditional melee in the late game is suicide unless you are a tank frame.

Guerrilla style melee is literally the only option many squishier frames have in endurance runs.

Maiming strike makes many completely forgotten weapons (Keshegg Im looking at you) viable beyond mastery fodder.

Maiming strike allows you to get in, hit hard, then get out of range from the litany of knockdown spam that the heavies are going to counter you with.

If you take maiming strike away without fixing the core issues with how enemies scale in this game then the outcome will become even worst than how you preceive it to be now.

We will have LESS viable endgame weapons.

Crit weapons will be forgotten (again) and everyone will move back to the orginal traditional condition overload status spamming melees.

Then we will have new threads asking DE to nerf condition overload because its the new perceived meta.

I agree that we need a more viable melee system.

But we dont need to remove other options to create more options. We just need more options.

 

 

Perhaps you are right. As it currently stands framing my argument for better melee systems overall around, what is apparently the community's favorite mod, was probably a poor decision. But again, I never ask them to "nerf" anything. Not once. I even lay out certain compensations that could be used until more deeply rooted issues could be addressed.

But taking this all into account you've made me realize something, much of my argument stems from the fear that even if they fix everything with melee, down to the letter - people will still just use MS + Macros even after a complete rework of the entire melee system. That's what I want [DE]Steve or whoever is in charge of this to consider, because that would be really bad.

[nslay]

4 minutes ago, JaxMess said:

Perhaps you are right. As it currently stands framing my argument for better melee systems overall around, what is apparently the community's favorite mod, was probably a poor decision. But again, I never ask them to "nerf" anything. Not once. I even lay out certain compensations that could be used until more deeply rooted issues could be addressed.

But taking this all into account you've made me realize something, much of my argument stems from the fear that even if they fix everything with melee, down to the letter - people will still just use MS + Macros even after a complete rework of the entire melee system. That's what I want [DE]Steve or whoever is in charge of this to consider, because that would be really bad.

I don't know. I don't use MS on everything... It doesn't make any sense on Sarpa for example. Some melee weapons have high crit chance already. Doesn't make sense to slot MS on such weapons either!

[EnvoyOne]

26 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

That's potentially the biggest and most unnecessary ad hominem I think I've ever seen on the forums.

You just made my day! Have a pizza. 🍕

[ADDpillz]

5 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

Yet the devs agree the balance of this game is an absolute horror, and players are constantly at ends with the games balance and design choices as a result of said balance. I guess you know better than the community and the devs on this game however?  

This game isn't balanced around that level of dps and it functionally kills actual co-operative play. High range aoe insta kills have turned playing with others into a game of be the hard carry or be the carried because the content can't keep up with the pace of a single meta player let alone a group. It is also part of a broader progression in design choices by DE that rely heavily on cheese mechanics like iframes, bullet sponges, and enemy cc spam, that are forced onto all of us regardless of if we used these metas or not as a means of combating these extreme high performance tools. 

Low balling sure depending on the other persons interest in being on meta, but yes I imagine people not being able to be involved in the gameplay of a game they are in with the expectation to play could be an argument against. 

It's a badly balanced mod. 

True.

Balance benefits all games, not just pvp ones. 

You seem to be showing similar zeal if not more as far as opinions on this matter go. And it's bold to assume your satisfiaction/goal is reflective of everyones views. 

Nice to have people like yourself speaking up for "the community" and "everyone".

[nslay]

How about this for Maiming Strike:

At least 90% Critical Hit Chance on Slide Attack

The '+' is removed. This just gives you max(90%, yourCHC) chance to crit on slide attack. I am biased toward how I use it though (as a utility mod to proc crit proc mods on bad crit weapons)! Though I can see how people would want to use it for critical tiers.

Or better yet, just fix slide attacks.

[Cubewano]

9 minutes ago, ADDpillz said:

Nice to have people like yourself speaking up for "the community" and "everyone".

The community spoke for itself, I'm just crediting the behavior which you seemed to have neglected to acknowledge. 

Not going to actually address my response though huh? 

[EnvoyOne]

5 minutes ago, nslay said:

I don't know. I don't use MS on everything... It doesn't make any sense on Sarpa for example. Some melee weapons have high crit chance already. Doesn't make sense to slot MS on such weapons either!

I don't use MS on everything either, of course, but I could, and it would work. The Devs have frequently expressed that they want to get away from "obvious" or "gimme" mods, like [Pressure Point] for example, something that you're just always going to have equipped. I agree with this change.

I'd argue that MS is just such a mod, and in many situations an even more "obvious" choice for some melee weapons than [Pressure Point]. No matter the build or situation, all builds can be effective slide-attack builds with the addition of a single mod. So then it just becomes a matter of range.

In the video I attempt to demonstrate that any weapon, regardless of range or style, can be made into a slide-attack weapon. It's less effective on some weapons than others, sure, but my point hopefully still comes across.

[ADDpillz]

1 hour ago, Cubewano said:

The community spoke for itself, I'm just crediting the behavior which you seemed to have neglected to acknowledge. 

Not going to actually address my response though huh? 

Really, please show we where the community voted on this matter and where DE has officially stated that Maiming strike and other AOE style of combat is the reason why we have "bullet sponge enemies". So far that seems to be YOUR OPINION.

Correlation does not imply causation

If I recall, we had bullet sponge bosses and rediculous armor scalling foes back in 2013 before maiming strike was ever created.

Edited July 3, 2019 by ADDpillz

[EnvoyOne]

31 minutes ago, nslay said:

Or better yet, just fix slide attacks.

Edited July 3, 2019 by JaxMess
Removed nonsense.

[Cubewano]

2 minutes ago, ADDpillz said:

Really, please show we where the community voted on this matter and where DE has officially stated that Maiming strike and other AOE style of combat is the reason why we have "bullet sponge enemies". So far that seems to be YOUR OPINION.

If I recall, we had bullet sponge bosses and rediculous armor scalling foes were in the game back in 2013 before maiming strike was ever created.

Literally read the forums and watch the devstreams and use basic logic. The community "voted" through their continued expression of opinions through the forums and streams and multitude of media platforms. DE never officially blamed maiming strike of power creep but they haven't shied from acknowledging it exists, that it has caused issues, and even called mechanics of the recent spider fights means of giving us a power fantasy without using such cheese methods which I hope you can put two and two together on. Don't assume all topics exist in a vacuum around solely your opinion in a platform that's been having opinions pummeled into it for years, educate yourself at the least and look outside self affirmation. 

In the past ridiculous armor scaling was reserved for duration runs only where they belonged, with players pushing the limits of their potential, most bosses had phases at best but nothing as severe as we have now. Not in durability, not in ability nullification, not in cc spam or multi layered damage gates. 

Now what about the rest of my initial response, I'd like to hear your full opinion not just pieces. 

[Sziklamester]

In my opinion the problem is not the maiming strike itself but the whole modding-scaling-melee system. I am not owning the maiming strike so I cannot say that from experience but the core problem is with the game and why the melee now one sided is the modding system not let you do varied builds because there are always a great mod which takes the place no matter what they are doind with it. There will be a new must have mod until they rethink the whole modding system. The melee system is currently bad because the majority of the combos are weird and not really behave how it supposed or if it is intented then they have no clue how it plays in reality. The range on melee weapons not equal and never will be because a knife cannot have the same purpose and range like a whip or a polearm. The main problem is they does not know what to do with the different weapons because these weapons using the same themes. A dagger in old time was fast, weak in damage wise but the speed helped a lot. The one thing what a dagger needs really is good finisher damage / surprise damage and a stagging ability. Each weapon needs their unique playstyle and how to work so I am not too optimistic on the melee 3.0 and I think it will be soon after a 4.0. 

 

Some mods just bad while other mods are too good for their place and DE like to bandaid the things. If you plays the game almost from the beginning then you know the fury for example it gave you 60% speed which is a good addition in the old times but they decided to nerf it and then later released a primed fury. Basically for money sink but logically it was a questionable thing when you already had a much better and easier to max mod why they needed to nerf it. The whole melee weapon families like daggers, dual daggers, heavy weapons and swords-machetes were speed nerfed while other weapons got animation speed ups.

 

The stance and combo system is also broken and they decided to remove the quick melee as option because they wanted to rid a playstyle and probably reducing the whip+polearm combo, also they wanted to see the fruits of their work on combo system and they wanted to save the unused blocking. Now we have a broken one system with good ideas but with bad ideas aswell. The maiming strike just skips these silly animation blocks and rendering the melee weapons into spin weapons. The mod itself is not bad I guess but the main problem for the use is the efficiency. They need first make the weapons efficient and each weapon category needs much much better stance-combos "if they wantr force on us" and better stats and roles each weapons. A dagger never will be a slice and mice weapon but it could stagger enemies and could hit fast. A whip could be slower a bit or in the same level as they are now, but with a moderate damage. Scythes basically hand axes by the size and these needs also fast attack animations and less animation blocks. Same goes to the swords and other weapons, I personally no wish to use slowdowns on my melee no matter I can now automatically block incoming projectiles. I want an efficient and fast melee without the remove of fluidity. The current melee system is not fluid and mods like condition overload, maiming strike, dual stat mods, life strike etc have option to exists because these mods have some extras what the base mods haven't.

 

That is not a problem if these mods becoming a bit more exclusive or just needs more mod capacity, but the whole modding system is a garbage as it is and basically you will put the 7-8 mandatory mods on weapons unless you wish try other mods in exchange you handicap yourself. First they need to make the modding 2.0 if they wish to make a good melee system because some mods are garbage while others mediocre others godlike. Each mods needs more purpose than beign endo material which is a shame on the devs they cannot revisit the old content more often.

 

The scaling is a different story which is broken on higher levels but they won't really touch that because the game on starchart is not broken. The mobs have a calculated stats on star chart and if you decide to go endless runs where there is the random scaling and unlimited scaling, then you did it for the better rewards with own your risk. I am not saying it is good as it is but it has a purpose. Almost noone wish pvp in the game and the challenge is comes from mainly from pvp modes but in warframe the challenge could be the better AI which is basically remains the same because this game is hordeshooter and not a dark souls. You cannot really touch the AI without sacrificing the whole game concept so they cannot really improve it or give proper pve challenges only they adding ability blockers or stunner enemies to force us to use different builds and weapons. Neither is challenging just an artifical gate what you need to manage somehow.

 

The best would be if they rework first the modding, after melee, then working on the scaling and reducing the ability blockers. I would like to use my old nice weapons again but their efficiency is low and the current melee without the quick melee is basically dead for me. I want to be efficient, fast, and enjoy the slice mice without a silly combo block.

 

[ADDpillz]

1 hour ago, Cubewano said:

Literally read the forums and watch the devstreams and use basic logic. The community "voted" through their continued expression of opinions through the forums and streams and multitude of media platforms. DE never officially blamed maiming strike of power creep but they haven't shied from acknowledging it exists, that it has caused issues, and even called mechanics of the recent spider fights means of giving us a power fantasy without using such cheese methods which I hope you can put two and two together on. Don't assume all topics exist in a vacuum around solely your opinion in a platform that's been having opinions pummeled into it for years, educate yourself at the least and look outside self affirmation. 

In the past ridiculous armor scaling was reserved for duration runs only where they belonged, with players pushing the limits of their potential, most bosses had phases at best but nothing as severe as we have now. Not in durability, not in ability nullification, not in cc spam or multi layered damage gates. 

Now what about the rest of my initial response, I'd like to hear your full opinion not just pieces. 

I did respond to you.

You claim that "Maiming Strike" negatively affects your gameplay because DE has to use broken balance schemes like "bullet sponged" EHP to balance it.

I retorted that your argument is a fallacy.

You have absolutely no idea why DE implements those mechanics because your not a dev and DE has never said any information that supports your claim.

"Literally read the forums and watch the devstreams and use basic logic. The community "voted" through their continued expression of opinions through the forums and streams and multitude of media platforms."

Ill let this cringey response speak for itself. You have 0 empirical data supporting that your OPINIONS reflect the majority of the community's views on this subject. This is not evidence, this is confirmation bias.

Going out on a limb here, for a game that has 50 Million registered players and out of those 74,000 currently active players on STEAM, the fact that there is only a handful of these posts complaining about a single mod probably means that you are not speaking on behalf of the majority. Theres literally just a handful of the same people complainging in an echo chamber.

" DE never officially blamed maiming strike of power creep"

Glad we agree.

"but they haven't shied from acknowledging it exists"

Source please.

"that it has caused issues, and even called mechanics of the recent spider fights means of giving us a power fantasy without using such cheese methods which I hope you can put two and two together on. "

The word "cheese" is subjective. Just because you see it as "cheese" does not mean the devs or the rest of the community does. Unless the devs have called it a "cheese" method then this is simply your biased opinion.

"Don't assume all topics exist in a vacuum around solely your opinion in a platform that's been having opinions pummeled into it for years, educate yourself at the least and look outside self affirmation. "

Nothing like the pot calling the kettle black.

I could go on about the irony and hypocrisy displayed in this statement alone but instead I think "no u" will suffice.

In the past ridiculous armor scaling was reserved for duration runs only where they belonged, with players pushing the limits of their potential, most bosses had phases at best but nothing as severe as we have now. Not in durability, not in ability nullification, not in cc spam or multi layered damage gates. 

Your creating a causal relationship between maiming strike and and DE's balance choices on bosses with no evidence to support your claim. This is a fallacy.

"Now what about the rest of my initial response, I'd like to hear your full opinion not just pieces."

Your welcome.

Now I'm going back to play warframe with the rest of the 74,000 active PC players instead of complaining on the forums about how those players choose to play.

Edited July 3, 2019 by ADDpillz
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