Excessive Power Given to Chat Bans

[TenDen]

I do not appreciate DE banning clan/alliance members from all chat features for something said in public chatroom channels, region, recruiting, or trading. Clan and/or Alliance chat and any private chat should be held responsible by the leaders/members of that group. The current bans greatly decrease the effectiveness of teamwork and private communities. If a clan member is found offensive than the clan leader(s) should be given the ability to deal with the situation. Current bans seem to last for several days on end which could be seen as cruel punishment for players involved in private communities or friends wanting to play with friends. There is a profanity filter too, let players use it.

If a person is offensive publicly then let them be banned from only public channels. Please leave the private chat channel moderation to the members that belong to the channel.

[nerfinator6]

This. I can understand banning squad or 'global' chats, but clan chat is something that should be left to the people running the clan.

[(PSN)AmberPhoenix42]

I didn't even say anything actually bad, I just made a S#&$ty joke about Nezha and I've been suspended from the chat. I don't even have any way of knowing for how long I'll be banned. I think like a few hours of ban would be ok, but this is way to much of a punishment for a bad joke imo. 

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Can't say I disagree. I can see the logic in those full bans, but I don't necessarily agree with them either.

Never been banned tho. Never tried anything that could get me that either, and disabled region a long time ago, and ignore anyone that gets passive-aggressive or outright toxic in trade chat. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

I disagree. 

Bans are meant to be unpleasant. If you legitimately did something that deserves a ban, then you absolutely deserve to be punished. The only issues I have is that 1) some of the things that people get banned for, especially by the bot, are definitely not what any logical person would consider bannable, and 2) people need to be informed that what they did was wrong. We currently don't get reasons for a lot of the bans. 

If you thought that you were being funny, and got banned, you should have just learned an important lesson: your puerile attempts are not appropriate, stop doing that. But if you were tricked into answering a question posed by a troll, whose answer seems innocent, or if you happen to trip over some unusual combination of terms that the bot dislikes, then you really don't deserve a week in Coventry. 

A loooong time ago some of us here proposed a model for a system, one that gives warnings and incremental bans to repeat offenders. Part of the suggestion was that the offenders lose their voices instead of the chat. That way you could see everything that was going on, see what appropriate behavior looks like, but not participate. In this way we speed the learning process, for those who are.... resistant to learning from punishment alone. 

 

But in return, the proposed maximum length of the chat bans increased exponentially and were orders of magnitude above what they are now. 

[(PSN)AmberPhoenix42]

Honestly,  I would be perfectly ok with a short chat ban, few hours, a day at max,  but not like a week long one.

It's unreasonable. I didn't say anything hurtful or offensive. It was just some silly joke that the bot didn't like. And I wasn't the only one at that particular time making the same kind of jokes. But only like two people got banned. One being me. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 hours ago, (PS4)AmberPhoenix42 said:

Honestly,  I would be perfectly ok with a short chat ban, few hours, a day at max,  but not like a week long one.

It's unreasonable. I didn't say anything hurtful or offensive. It was just some silly joke that the bot didn't like. And I wasn't the only one at that particular time making the same kind of jokes. But only like two people got banned. One being me. 

That the point. You'd be okay with a shorter ban. 

Right now you don't even seem to grasp that whatever you thought was funny, probably is not funny in any way, shape, or form. You still think that you weren't wrong, and use the justification that others were doing it too. 

It's always possible that a person might learn after a warning, or a light tap on the wrist, but so far what you've written leads me to believe that wouldn't have been the case anyway. Instead of remorse, I see attempts to justify. 

Maybe by the end of the week, you'll be closer to understanding that maybe you shouldn't have done that, and if that's beyond you, maybe you can at least learn that your actions can lead to consequences which you won't particularly like. Either way, I hope that the ban serves to encourage you to not make those sorts of "jokes". 

[ZoneDymo]

You said something that DE feels does not adhere to the rules, so your ability to speak is revoked, seems logical to me.

[TenDen]

I didn't make this thread to discuss how the bot bans people for pointless statements or necessarily how long the bans are. The main issue is that you are banned from talking to ANYONE after that point on for who knows how long the current ban is lasting. It's as if saying something "offensive" in public is means for punishment where you can no longer talk to your family or speak in school for the next week.

For example, I recently got banned because I said something "offensive", what I do about once every year it seems. I played in POE for some time with an MR5 player helping him do bounties he clearly would not be able to do on his own. In the end he sent me a friend request saying 'thanks', but I can't speak to him for probably 4 more days to say 'your welcome'. Is it really necessary to ban private chatrooms as well?

[ZoneDymo]

6 minutes ago, TenDen said:

I didn't make this thread to discuss how the bot bans people for pointless statements or necessarily how long the bans are. The main issue is that you are banned from talking to ANYONE after that point on for who knows how long the current ban is lasting. It's as if saying something "offensive" in public is means for punishment where you can no longer talk to your family or speak in school for the next week.

For example, I recently got banned because I said something "offensive", what I do about once every year it seems. I played in POE for some time with an MR5 player helping him do bounties he clearly would not be able to do on his own. In the end he sent me a friend request saying 'thanks', but I can't speak to him for probably 4 more days to say 'your welcome'. Is it really necessary to ban private chatrooms as well?

Again, if DE feels you are saying stuff you should not, then your freedom to speak is revoked, seems logical.
What they cant stop is voice chat so you could always use that I guess.

Otherwise, idk, invite them to a discord channel and talk to them there?

[TenDen]

Freedom of speech does not apply to what is said in private, it only applies to what is said publicly.

[(PSN)AmberPhoenix42]

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

That the point. You'd be okay with a shorter ban. 

Right now you don't even seem to grasp that whatever you thought was funny, probably is not funny in any way, shape, or form. You still think that you weren't wrong, and use the justification that others were doing it too. 

It's always possible that a person might learn after a warning, or a light tap on the wrist, but so far what you've written leads me to believe that wouldn't have been the case anyway. Instead of remorse, I see attempts to justify. 

Maybe by the end of the week, you'll be closer to understanding that maybe you shouldn't have done that, and if that's beyond you, maybe you can at least learn that your actions can lead to consequences which you won't particularly like. Either way, I hope that the ban serves to encourage you to not make those sorts of "jokes". 

Why are you talking to me like I'm a middle-schooler in detention? 

I'm just a little upset about being cut off from any in game communication because of a bad joke and not having any way of knowing how long it'll last. 

You talk like I committed some horrible crime I should feel bad about. Which I did not do. So no, I don't feel sorry. Will I be more careful next time? Of course. I'm not dumb. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

22 minutes ago, TenDen said:

Freedom of speech does not apply to what is said in private, it only applies to what is said publicly.

Freedom of Speech also does not not mean that you are free from repercussions, just that the Federal government would not prosecute you for what you said. Everyone else is allowed to set their own rules and entitled to tell you what you're not allowed to say in their space. 

18 minutes ago, (PS4)AmberPhoenix42 said:

Why are you talking to me like I'm a middle-schooler in detention? 

I'm just a little upset about being cut off from any in game communication because of a bad joke and not having any way of knowing how long it'll last. 

You talk like I committed some horrible crime I should feel bad about. Which I did not do. So no, I don't feel sorry. Will I be more careful next time? Of course. I'm not dumb. 

Because you acted like a middle schooler, when you made your "bad joke", then you acted like a middle schooler who was upset about getting detention, then you acted like a middle schooler when you tried to claim that what they did wasn't so bad because others were doing it too. 

Regarding the last bit, being told "you were naughty, you are being punished by being put in the naughty corner where you are not allowed to talk with your friends, but so far you don't seem to have learned your lesson" is most assuredly not acting like you have committed a serious crime. Hopefully you will never figure out how you're going to be treated if you commit serious crimes and show a lack of remorse. 

 

[TenDen]

What I say by freedom of speech is that it is fine if punishment is given that restricts our PUBLIC speech rights. However, our private speech rights should not be included in that punishment as it does not apply to freedom of speech. Squad, whisper, clan, alliance chats are NOT public chatrooms, they are private chatrooms and therefore should not be restricted during bans. Only the other parties in said chatrooms should have the right to mute or ban members from that chatroom.

[Basalto]

45 minutes ago, (PS4)AmberPhoenix42 said:

Why are you talking to me like I'm a middle-schooler in detention? 

I'm just a little upset about being cut off from any in game communication because of a bad joke and not having any way of knowing how long it'll last. 

You talk like I committed some horrible crime I should feel bad about. Which I did not do. So no, I don't feel sorry. Will I be more careful next time? Of course. I'm not dumb. 

Don't pay him any attention, really. Dude's a hardcore contrarian even when it means forgoing any sort of sense.

 

On the topic itself, I wholeheartedly agree with the "too much power" thing. It's already bad enough that the chat of an 18+ game is overmoderated by oversensitive people, but when a ban on one chat extends to another, it goes from the tantrum of a child with too much power to an obnoxiously bad design that should've been addressed ages and ages ago.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

DE's chat, DE's rules. You broke the rules so now your access is restricted for a limited time. Use this to select on how not to do it again.

[Basalto]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

DE's chat, DE's rules. You broke the rules so now your access is restricted for a limited time. Use this to select on how not to do it again.

Rules are always subject to criticism and possible change, unless you'd like to say we should still be using "an eye for an eye" from Mesopotamia because "it's their rules lol" and whatnot.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

13 minutes ago, Basalto said:

Rules are always subject to criticism and possible change, unless you'd like to say we should still be using "an eye for an eye" from Mesopotamia because "it's their rules lol" and whatnot.

I mean, you can criticize it. But it's still Mesopotamia's rules. So you better be careful. Lol

Plus all this is is probably a week or two chat ban. It's nothing as serious as an eye for an eye. Lmao

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

28 minutes ago, Basalto said:

Rules are always subject to criticism and possible change, unless you'd like to say we should still be using "an eye for an eye" from Mesopotamia because "it's their rules lol" and whatnot.

Looks like you're foregoing all common sense just to be contrarian. 

Read what the people you think you're siding with wrote on this thread, and read what I wrote. I criticised the false positive responses that we ret from the bot and mentioned what I believe are important changes that have been suggested in the past. 

That's "criticism of Mesopotamia's rules" the folks who are griping here are upset because they apparently did step afoul of the rules and been punished. They're not criticising the rules, but rather bemoaning the fact that they were caught doing so and now have to sit through their punishment without having a commuted. 

[TenDen]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

They're not criticising the rules, but rather bemoaning the fact that they were caught doing so and now have to sit through their punishment without having a commuted. 

I am by no means complaining over the fact that I have been banned. I am trying to tell DE there are better ways to implement the ban in a way that will better promote their game and its community/communities.

I would by no means be surprised if a number of people quit playing due to these bans, including people who pay cash for platinum. And I am sure any game company would like to prevent the loss of potential income. If they only ban public chatrooms, a lot more people would not be "bemoaning the fact that they got caught" and DE would quite possibly have more money in their pocket.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

21 minutes ago, TenDen said:

I would by no means be surprised if a number of people quit playing due to these bans

Except they won't. Because they can still play the gamr. They just have no access to chat for a week. If you really are this upset I'd contact support.

[TenDen]

Support told me to make a thread in forums, that way actual DE staff would notice it. So I did. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

14 minutes ago, TenDen said:

I am by no means complaining over the fact that I have been banned. I am trying to tell DE there are better ways to implement the ban in a way that will better promote their game and its community/communities.

I would by no means be surprised if a number of people quit playing due to these bans, including people who pay cash for platinum. And I am sure any game company would like to prevent the loss of potential income. If they only ban public chatrooms, a lot more people would not be "bemoaning the fact that they got caught" and DE would quite possibly have more money in their pocket.

Really? 

On 2019-07-05 at 9:32 PM, TenDen said:

I do not appreciate DE banning clan/alliance members from all chat features for something said in public chatroom channels, region, recruiting, or trading. Clan and/or Alliance chat and any private chat should be held responsible by the leaders/members of that group. The current bans greatly decrease the effectiveness of teamwork and private communities. If a clan member is found offensive than the clan leader(s) should be given the ability to deal with the situation. Current bans seem to last for several days on end which could be seen as cruel punishment for players involved in private communities or friends wanting to play with friends. There is a profanity filter too, let players use it.

If a person is offensive publicly then let them be banned from only public channels. Please leave the private chat channel moderation to the members that belong to the channel.

Sure does look like you are complaining about the punishment handed out for breaking the rules in public chat. 

Think about it like this. If you are at home you're allowed to be as drunk/loud/rude/racist/bigoted/offensive/filthy/uncouth/disgusting/armed/naked/unvaccinated (take your pick) as you want. I 100% support your rights to be any of those things if you aren't having an impact on anyone else. But when you go out in public and your actions start to impact upon others, then you are subject to the rules of the community in which you find yourself. 

If they'd kept it in clan/alliance chat then they'd have been subject to your local rules and punishments, and I'm cool with whatever you guys/gals/others do there. But when they decided to act foolishly in region chat, they are subject to DE's punishment. And that "punishment" is an important part. Because we can see right here that people are not grasping that what they did is not acceptable, and are instead claiming that the punishment is unacceptable. 

Here's a hypothetical,  your kid's friend came in your house and disrespected you to the point where you said "okay that's it, you're not allowed to come over here for a week, because you've been very rude and not followed my simple rules".

And then your child says, "well that's ok, he can just hang with me upstairs in my room until his punishment is over you can't punish him if he's hanging out with me in the 'private' space, which is really just a part of the space that you own that I'm allowed to call my own. And I will justify this because Jimmy here once bought gum from the store you own, and I will give you hints of vague threats about a loss of customers and income if you don't allow this."...... 

How do you think thats going to go over? I'm thinking not so well. 

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

14 minutes ago, TenDen said:

Support told me to make a thread in forums, that way actual DE staff would notice it. So I did. 

That's a standard autogenerated response that seems to me that it really means "yeah not dealing with this because demanding that the punishment gets commuted really ain't gonna fly". 

[TenDen]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Here's a hypothetical,  your kid's friend came in your house and disrespected you to the point where you said "okay that's it, you're not allowed to come over here for a week, because you've been very rude and not followed my simple rules".

And then your child says, "well that's ok, he can just hang with me upstairs in my room until his punishment is over you can't punish him if he's hanging out with me in the 'private' space, which is really just a part of the space that you own that I'm allowed to call my own. And I will justify this because Jimmy here once bought gum from the store you own, and I will give you hints of vague threats about a loss of customers and income if you don't allow this."...... 

How do you think thats going to go over? I'm thinking not so well. 

 

That is a bad example in many ways.

In a real world comparison a house would be a clan not public chatroom. And if the 'child'/player does not like it they could chat privately similar to /w or discord.

An example I would try to give is going in front of the president's house and saying you'll blow it up. In response they'll obviously through you in jail or put you under house arrest. Either way you still get the right to talk to family members and possibly friends.

Edited July 8, 2019 by TenDen