Revenant desperately needs some speeding up...

[selig_fay]

il y a 1 minute, m0b1us1 a dit :

You are still missing the point. If there is a flaw big enough to warrant a specific playstyle, then it is infact a flaw. 

If you are claiming that "cast in air" is a solution, then it has to be a solution to a problem. Like I said before, in general gameplay you can usually recast it whenever. However in far longer gameplay like 3hr survival and more, you have to start using stealth or death gate mechanics. Also you will still run into this issue if you are facing a constantly leveling growing number of enemies. I don't think you have been in that kind of scenario yet. I'm talking far more than 40m arb. 

You can use the operator to control enemies using Lockdown arcanes and use the ability calmly. Or does that not look like a solution either?

[m0b1us1]

6 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Why do you always throw unverified facts?

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Thralls, quite literally, do not taunt. When I say taunt, I quite literally mean taunt as in guardian derision or atlas 4 augment. Taking a small number of enemies and enthralling 7 of them proves nothing as now you have far less enemies and far more targets to pick from. They do not taunt, merely provide more targets for the enemy to pick from. Still don't believe me? Go take a look at the wiki and tell me where it says thralls taunt.

[m0b1us1]

3 minutes ago, zhellon said:

You can use the operator to control enemies using Lockdown arcanes and use the ability calmly. Or does that not look like a solution either?

You miss the point. I said it was a solution, but how can there be a solution if there is no problem? Hence my original point stands that at higher levels with large numbers of enemies the cast time and losing pre existing stacks is an issue. So thank you for providing supporting evidence for my point.

[selig_fay]

il y a 3 minutes, m0b1us1 a dit :

Thralls, quite literally, do not taunt. When I say taunt, I quite literally mean taunt as in guardian derision or atlas 4 augment. Taking a small number of enemies and enthralling 7 of them proves nothing as now you have far less enemies and far more targets to pick from. They do not taunt, merely provide more targets for the enemy to pick from. Still don't believe me? Go take a look at the wiki and tell me where it says thralls taunt. 

Wiki is not a panacea. I can change the page at any time. And Yes, it's written on our wiki. Like you said, the point is that slaves are priority targets if you're more than 7 meters away. And it works even through walls and any obstacles. Enemies will literally ignore you. If it's not a taunt, what is it?

il y a 3 minutes, m0b1us1 a dit :

You miss the point. I said it was a solution, but how can there be a solution if there is no problem? Hence my original point stands that at higher levels with large numbers of enemies the cast time and losing pre existing stacks is an issue. So thank you for providing supporting evidence for my point.

All abilities have problems. At the moment, the Revenant has the easiest invulnerability in the game. And all the problems that you listed - this is not a reason to change the ability, which works perfectly. Especially at higher levels you will use a combination of 1 + 3 and this means that your armor will never fall.

[nslay]

3 minutes ago, m0b1us1 said:

You are still missing the point. If there is a flaw big enough to warrant a specific playstyle, then it is infact a flaw. 

If you are claiming that "cast in air" is a solution, then it has to be a solution to a problem. Like I said before, in general gameplay you can usually recast it whenever. However in far longer gameplay like 3hr survival and more, you have to start using stealth or death gate mechanics. Also you will still run into this issue if you are facing a constantly leveling growing number of enemies. I don't think you have been in that kind of scenario yet. I'm talking far more than 40m arb. 

You're imagining a problem and scenario that doesn't exist in practice. I told you how to recast Mesmer Skin safely, I even showed you a video of how to do it. You agreed that it reduces the chance to take any hit from enemy fire when you do that. You don't have to believe me, but I am further telling you that when you cast it that way, you practically never take enemy fire. Sure, you could get hit. But you don't! Nevermind that you can use his 1... But you know, nitpick that the AI might target you instead of the high aggro Enthralled enemy even though that also doesn't happen in practice. You know what? If you play Revenant and are really concerned by this, go use Rolling Guard. I don't care either way. It doesn't affect me or any other Revenant player.

Oh, go find one of many Revenant long survival videos on youtube. Heck there's even one linked in General Discussion in another Revanant thread. A 1.5 hour Mot run is not enough for you? Give me a break...

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

3 hours ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

Hey, laugh away.

While I'm sure there are those who will attempt to convince others to bask in the glory of his 'hidden' overpowered nature, the rest of us already know the score.  I've previously stated that Rev may seem broken while in solo missions....like every other frame in the game, so let's explore his team functionality:

Enthrall brings zero viability or synergy to any team that I can think of, unless the other players are either trolling or new to the game.  With the current state of the game, death is the best CC.  No one in their right mind is going to let ANY enemies survive, enthralled or otherwise.  Hell, I still see people shooting at Nekros' shadows ffs.  

The only value I can imagine that Revenant brings to a team is index runs since he can always stun and enthrall the enemies.  He also doesn't care about the drain from holding points because his HP can't dip below 2 when skin is active.  It's a niche thing.  But worth mentioning regardless.

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Mesmer Skin is overrated.  Is it a good ability?  Hell yes.  will it enable Rev to compete with Iron Skin, Vex Armor, or anything Inaros?  Not even close.  If anything, all it really does is provide a small CC to a team, in which we've already gone over how much CC is valued these days.  What?  You said you get a free Enthrall cast on enemies stunned by Mesmer Skin?  Cool!  Wait, where did all the enemies go?  Blasted teammates!

Iron skin is garbage at high content.  It's a second HP bar that receives zero modifiers to make it more effective.  And because it blocks all forms of damage until it's out you can't abuse a lot strong arcanes or adaptation.  Iron skin needs two augments to compete in high level play for tanking.  His value at that level comes from cc and buffing.  Chroma and inaros both need mods to help them in high content.  Inaros needs negation swarm and adaptation.  Chroma needs adaptation.  Rev will out live both because he doesn't care about damage.

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Reave....just no.  The distance is determined by duration, which based upon the opinion of these wonderful Rev mains have provided, means less Mesmer skin stacks.  But wait!  It's useful for restoring large amounts of shields and health, non?  Mais oui!  Then again, you kind of need enemies to be enthralled for those large restores.  Drat, your squadmates killed those thralls already!  That damned Enthrall again.  I know, I'll just use it to get around faster using-

You can get away with around 123% duration with some efficiency and still have about 14 stacks.  It's only when you go hard on strength to try and one shot everything where things get messy mod wise.

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Danse Macabre.  And burn through all your energy.  Especially considering your efficiency and duration are more than likely compromised in favor of those Mesmer stacks.  Which by the way, you run out of very quickly by enemies at higher levels who don't instantly melt the moment you get started.  This ability is the other least useful because your team usually is packing enough firepower to put a hole in the world anyway.  Looks pretty though.  Even if the damage does need time to ramp up because of the nature of the ability.

As i've pointed out before.  You never have more than 3-4 enemies shooting at you at a time.  There is some enemy weaponry that will strip a few stacks with each hit.  But that's not common place enough to be a persistent issue at high end game.

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In all, he's probably used best in solo, but there are far, far better solo frames out there that require less micromanagement and are far more efficient than Revenant.  Average is not bad, and neither is he.  Enthrall must be tossed if this frame is going to be anything other than middle of the pack.

 

Agree to disagree.  Pretty much most content these days has some level of power immune enemies.  Enthrall is the only cc based ability i've seen that sometimes gets to ignore that.  It depends entirely on what you're doing.  During solo pretty much anything works.

I agree that Revenant has very little value to a team.  I agree that the benefits for thralls isn't where it could be in terms of aiding allies.  But they help revenant just fine on his own.  I don't disagree that revenant should receive some tweaks.  I do disagree with the idea that he's a dumpster fire of a frame.  In order to be considered a top level frame by most people they usually need some way to survive, some way to do good damage, some way to help the team, and flexibility.  Revenant has 2 of those.  So he's good.  If you think he's bad because he doesn't help teams out that's valid and I can respect that.

I can't respect people who will dump on the benefits his kit does have for no good reason.  A frame doesn't need to be the best at what it does to be a good frame.  I take him because he's the only frame that can lazy tank as well as oldkong did in this day and age.  Hyldrin comes close but she's a bit cast heavy.  Beyond that I also use him to exploit missions where enemy caps exist.  The most recent example being the thermia event.  All of the enemies never shot at the pod because they were too busy attacking the thralls.  Sure I could have dumbed the event down in a miriad of other ways.

But that doesn't invalidate what he did there in the slightest.  The game is all about options.  The farther we stay away from meta picking the better imho.

Edited July 13, 2019 by (XB1)Knight Raime