minimum mr 5 and second dream completion to que for eidolon hunt bounty

[Klokwerkaos]

i didn't witness this myself, but saw a bunch of clanmates complaining about it (and they asked me to take it to the forums), that being

people queing for the cetus bounty of these, when they don't even have an amp.  obviously this came up because hydro is a weekly nightwave challenge and people are just queing expecting to do nothing and have others carry them.

i see that as problematic in that they shouldn't reasonably be getting that bonus reputation if they can't contribute at all in any meaningful way to the team.

this also doesn"t mean they can't be carried by their clan, they just don't que for the bounty, they just go out as a group into the plains, so lower level players can still get the nw completion if they ask their clanmates nicely.

if this description is accurate, i do see it as a big oversight, in that they are getting rep they didn't earn, and are actively working against the team by queing and being unable to contribute in any meaningful way (because they certainly aren't bringing a well modded lanka at mr 4 when they can't even use it).  technically they could shoot after shields are down and that's "technically" helping, but it's really not, and if people were just doing this with friends it wouldn't be a big deal, but as i understand it, this week in particular this has been a major point of abuse of the system.

if there is a valid reason they should be able to que at random for this and gain the rep when they are unable to help in any meaningful way, i'm open to hearing it, but it just looks like an exploit based on some oversight during implementation.

just to be clear, i can solo these, so it's no skin off my back, but it is upsetting to players who aren't playing at that level, and does appear to be an exploit that's rooted in disingenuouos behavior.

it's one thing to que for a mission and just get carried by accident, but it"s never cool to do this with a coordinated effort that is designed to be challenging to mid game players, and just expect them to carry you.  that's super crappy behavior imho.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Klokwerkaos

[krc473]

5 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

people queing for the cetus bounty of these, when they don't even have an amp.

If you want to lock bounty behind some progress make it at a sensible level. Second Dream is not a sensible restriction. I would suggest TWW, or Mote AMP unlocked.

• I am neutral on this, I never run the bounty. It does seem like a sensible choice to not let people do the mission without an AMP.

[Rawbeard]

41 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

a bunch of clanmates complaining about it

if they can't carry a team solo and maybe even rely on randoms post "slot the shard" your clanmates have no business complaining.

[Firetempest]

54 minutes ago, krc473 said:

If you want to lock bounty behind some progress make it at a sensible level. Second Dream is not a sensible restriction. I would suggest TWW, or Mote AMP unlocked.

• I am neutral on this, I never run the bounty. It does seem like a sensible choice to not let people do the mission without an AMP.

Pretty much this. Mote amp unlocks the first eidolon bounty. The first custom amp like a 1-1-1 will unlock the triple hunt.

And let anyone who has them unlocked can invite taxi those who haven't if they really want to carry.

[Klokwerkaos]

1 hour ago, Rawbeard said:

if they can't carry a team solo and maybe even rely on randoms post "slot the shard" your clanmates have no business complaining.

i don't see this as a valid criticism.  you are welcome to try and change my mind, but i will state, that i believe strongly not everyone needs to be a god tier player that can pwn everything without thinking.  people come up in warframe at different rates and there is no correct way to enjoy the game.

i will agree that when you pug you go to carry or you go to fail, but that comes with the caveat that people aren't intentionally exploiting the system and taking advantage of you with ill intent.

[TaurusDeRoma]

You really only need 1 operator with a decent amp, and then good Eidolon set ups for Chroma, Volt, Harrow, Trinity, or possibly Oberon (Hallowed Ground), and a sniper modded for critical damage and radiation damage (preferably a puncture based sniper). As for Auras, you'll need 3 Coaction Drifts, and a Dead Eye Aura. Considering that Coaction Drift is only available from Lua, a minimum requirement of completing The Second Dream isn't unreasonable. But there is Harrow, who is locked behind Mot and Chains of Harrow, so perhaps the minimum requirement for players should be having completed the star chart through Mot, and having gotten an Amp.

The only challenge for them will be having to rely on their floating operator form to take down shields, and the player w/ their operator having to charge lures solo by soloing the Vomvalysts. The minimum requirement of completing The War Within is for the best though, since not all players have enough focus nodes to take down the Eidolon themselves.

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

Completing TWW, and getting the Mote Amp from the Quills should be the bare minimum to que public Eidolon bounties.

Recruit chat groups can carry no problem.

That's how I'd fix it.

Edit: I take it back, you need a Mote Amp to do any Eidolon content. Recruit chat or public bounty, don't matter, need an amp. At least then you don't have an excuse not to contribute, even if the mote amp sucks.

Edited August 20, 2019 by (XB1)Skippy575
Another point

[Rawbeard]

4 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

god tier player

who is talking about god tier? and if you CAN'T do such a simple task as carry one tridolon through one night, then you have exactly ZERO right to complain about randos. you should have made a premade group if you need the help. this is not about changing your mind, because if you say you need to be god tier, then I am god tier. what are the remaining tiers above god tier though? because I don't even bother with rivens.

you know what the easiest way would be to change your mind? I carry your lazy ass. but that would shatter your fragile hatred for randoms, exposing the problem was you all along.

[Klokwerkaos]

5 hours ago, Rawbeard said:

who is talking about god tier? and if you CAN'T do such a simple task as carry one tridolon through one night, then you have exactly ZERO right to complain about randos. you should have made a premade group if you need the help. this is not about changing your mind, because if you say you need to be god tier, then I am god tier. what are the remaining tiers above god tier though? because I don't even bother with rivens.

you know what the easiest way would be to change your mind? I carry your lazy ass. but that would shatter your fragile hatred for randoms, exposing the problem was you all along.

DUDE...

1, rude.

2, I don't need anything from you.  not sure if your brain broke or you have a reading disability or what exactly, but please course correct.

3, I already said i can solo these.  either you can't read, or you decided you read something you didn't.  I'm not the one  complaining.  please either reread and understand what you're actually talking about and who you're talking to, or kindly, go away, please and thank you.

4, i have already done everything in the game up to and including build dojo prime and run a large and active clan.  i don't say that to brag, but to point out I really don't need the condescension and it just makes you foolish to me.  my point is that just because  everything is easy for me, doesn't mean it is for everyone  else, and different people have different progression paths.  some people rightly find these hunts challenging because of their load outs, and while they may actively be working to improve those load outs, that doesn't mean they can just wave a magic wand and instantly have the best gear and be caught up to you.  there are lots of reasons why someone would be capable of doing these fights but not carrying dead weight, and many of  those reasons are very valid and don't stem from laziness.

the world could use less of this kind of attitude you are presenting here.  there is no shame in not having 5K+ hours in mission and max mr.  that's not the measure of how people can enjoy the game.

the fact that you chose to throw your weight around and completely ignored the discussion about the exploit and it's merits/flaws, tells me pretty clearly what your priorities are, and I'm thinking this is a good spot for you and i to part ways.

[Klokwerkaos]

9 hours ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

Completing TWW, and getting the Mote Amp from the Quills should be the bare minimum to que public Eidolon bounties.

Recruit chat groups can carry no problem.

That's how I'd fix it.

Edit: I take it back, you need a Mote Amp to do any Eidolon content. Recruit chat or public bounty, don't matter, need an amp. At least then you don't have an excuse not to contribute, even if the mote amp sucks.

It can't work this way with the current design intent.

the eidolons spawn on the plains regardless, but frankly if you don't have an amp your choice is to run or die, and that's as intended... (this builds tension and suspense for newer players until they earn their way up to getting to eidolon hunts and then makes it feel satisfying that they can now slay the beast that was impossible to kill before, you can tell this is the intent because they have all the people in cetus telling you to be careful at night, etc. as pretty hammy foreshadowing) additionally, players that don't have their amp yet can still get nightwave completion if their clan runs them through, and that's as it should be.  nightwave challenges shouldn't be "literally impossible" for a new player to complete in their first week with help.

the main problem i have is directly incentivizing people with extra cetus standing to get them to que for the bounty when they  have no business being there and shouldn't be getting the standing because they didn't contribute.  simply putting a check to make sure the amp is earned to show the bounty is sufficient.

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Klokwerkaos

[krc473]

9 hours ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

Edit: I take it back, you need a Mote Amp to do any Eidolon content. Recruit chat or public bounty, don't matter, need an amp. At least then you don't have an excuse not to contribute, even if the mote amp sucks.

What if I want to carry my friends through it? This will be a private squad, where everyone goes in knowing exactly what is happening. Not everyone has done TWW, but some have good enough gear that they can contribute. I have often found that me not hitting the shields has no impact on performance, I don’t need an AMP - I do tend to go Trinity though, people tell me keeping lures alive is more important than attacking the shield.

• Lock the bounties, don’t lock just going straight to PoE. I agree that when you pick the bounty you would expect everyone to at least be contributing. Going straight to PoE is different.

[Klokwerkaos]

2 minutes ago, krc473 said:

What if I want to carry my friends through it? This will be a private squad, where everyone goes in knowing exactly what is happening. Not everyone has done TWW, but some have good enough gear that they can contribute. I have often found that me not hitting the shields has no impact on performance, I don’t need an AMP - I do tend to go Trinity though, people tell me keeping lures alive is more important than attacking the shield.

• Lock the bounties, don’t lock just going straight to PoE. I agree that when you pick the bounty you would expect everyone to at least be contributing. Going straight to PoE is different.

that's what i was saying.  you should be able to carry your friends, just not on bounty.  this is because a new player should be able to complete any nightwave  challenge with appropriate help.

[Karzakeno]

As a new player, who if very lucky, is able to contribute 25%ish damage on Teralyst - in party of similarly new people - I would not want to crash Hydrolyst public party with my under-performance.

That is until this week, when the most points in Nightwave is given for this particular event. Not only is it 7000pts. Not-completing this gates me from re-opening old NW challenges, that I wasnt able to do before (or wasnt even playing yet), but now I can.

I can tell you that we (the newbs) are not happy about the situation either.

I agree tho, that people should at least have "War Within" completed to even see these bounties in Konzu's offering. It is very confusing story-wise as well.

Problem however is, that Cetus is located in Earth-space, so new players will almost certainly go there right after they do Vor's Prize  - I know I did, not even having Archwing Launcher and hopelesly hopping after the flying players around the map.

The lack of any visible "reasonable path of progression" in this game is basicaly legendary.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Karzakeno

[(XBOX)Eminem2420]

I think it would be reasonable to lock the Eidolon bounties behind having at least the Mote Amp. 

[Bioness]

I agree.

Also it is spelled "queue".