Do the devs look at these conclave threads at all?

[(PSN)AhaloAskewed]

Are these discussions about conclave worth anything? Is conclave going to be left how it is for the next X amount of years?

I'm actually new to the conclave experience...but I really like it so far. It's pretty fun, and different from what other games have to differ. It has it's own issues though like

-some balancing

-being unable to invite friends to play ON YOUR TEAM, and in general the matchmaker is just weird

- ranking, SBMM, and how long someone can play in the beginner phase before being pushed into the next level.

Etc.

 

A lot of cool stuff can happen with conclave imo...of course I do get that PVE is the heart of warframe. Though I do believe conclave would just enhance the experience and make it even more fun, and under the right circumstances...fun to grind such a playlist. 

So are these threads worth anything? I've looked up some issues on Google and old threads from previous years pop up with no answers, some of which still seem to be issues today. 

People have said the devs basically don't care about conclave. I think there's a community that would love to help with detailed feedback on what works, doesn't work, what could be added/removed and/or improved etc etc. 

These threads don't get much traffic. I'm just wondering...is it worth actively posting on this side of the forums?

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

Nope, it's a lost cause. 

13 minutes ago, (PS4)AhaloAskewed said:

People have said the devs basically don't care about conclave.

The Devs don't care about conclave because they know 99.99% of us would rather see it removed from the game than have any development effort wasted on it.  Why invest ANY time or money on their end into something 10 people use.  PVP has been a failure in all 4-5 iterations there have been.  At some point they had to realize they were effectively peeing away money and workers on something the average WF player just doesn't want.  The lack of interest from the community isn't because PVP is inherently bad, but rather it has no business in Warframe.  The core playerbase isn't here for that.  

Edited August 20, 2019 by (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z

[Uhkretor]

The Conclave was requested by those that wanted PvP but didn't want to have their Valkyr one-shot by a single attacker against a team of 8, over and over again. I know about it, because one of those actually opened a bug report that the Stalker was invading and destroying his Alliance's Solar Rails relentlessly, despite the whole army defending it.

Then the Conclave was created. PvP perfectly isolated from PvE, no more Solar Rails. End result? No one does Conclave, because they still get one-shot over there and, sometimes, even worse than what they were eating with on those Solar Rails, pre-Conclave.

What they really wanted was Solar Rails being PvP exclusive, perfectly isolated from PvE like the Conclave is, and they got the Conclave at the exchange of losing control of their Solar Rail 100% tax income on both credits and resources. No more Solar Rail conflicts because those are now known as "Junctions", with a single specter as an adversary blocking the access to the next planet.

... PvP is a gimmick in this game. It was always a gimmick, even pre-Conclave. The only thing that is done on the Conclave is allowing the already existing stuff to be used there, with their own PvP exclusive stats. The rest is player skill based, but the thing is... Almost no one runs it. And those that do are tired of getting beaten up by the same "Stalker" dude over and over again, like it happened before Conclave was released.

 

Edit: To answer your question? They do. Those topics simply aren't relevant to the reason why the Conclave was created in the first place.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Uhkretor

[(PSN)AhaloAskewed]

58 minutes ago, (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z said:

Nope, it's a lost cause. 

The Devs don't care about conclave because they know 99.99% of us would rather see it removed from the game than have any development effort wasted on it.  Why invest ANY time or money on their end into something 10 people use.  PVP has been a failure in all 4-5 iterations there have been.  At some point they had to realize they were effectively peeing away money and workers on something the average WF player just doesn't want.  The lack of interest from the community isn't because PVP is inherently bad, but rather it has no business in Warframe.  The core playerbase isn't here for that.  

Do you play conclave at all? I'm wondering because from your reply it makes me want to assume it's something you don't care about or really dislike. Though I don't want to assume.

[(PSN)AhaloAskewed]

47 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

The Conclave was requested by those that wanted PvP but didn't want to have their Valkyr one-shot by a single attacker against a team of 8, over and over again. I know about it, because one of those actually opened a bug report that the Stalker was invading and destroying his Alliance's Solar Rails relentlessly, despite the whole army defending it.

Then the Conclave was created. PvP perfectly isolated from PvE, no more Solar Rails. End result? No one does Conclave, because they still get one-shot over there and, sometimes, even worse than what they were eating with on those Solar Rails, pre-Conclave.

What they really wanted was Solar Rails being PvP exclusive, perfectly isolated from PvE like the Conclave is, and they got the Conclave at the exchange of losing control of their Solar Rail 100% tax income on both credits and resources. No more Solar Rail conflicts because those are now known as "Junctions", with a single specter as an adversary blocking the access to the next planet.

... PvP is a gimmick in this game. It was always a gimmick, even pre-Conclave. The only thing that is done on the Conclave is allowing the already existing stuff to be used there, with their own PvP exclusive stats. The rest is player skill based, but the thing is... Almost no one runs it. And those that do are tired of getting beaten up by the same "Stalker" dude over and over again, like it happened before Conclave was released.

 

Edit: To answer your question? They do. Those topics simply aren't relevant to the reason why the Conclave was created in the first place.

I'm pretty sure you knew I was referencing the pvp mode and the threads about pvp...the rest of what you said i won't address. 

 

For a gimmick I gotta say it's not that bad man. I feel like it can be much better. Do you play it at all? If so, when was the last time you played it? 

 

One of the common replies to a thread like this is how it's not important, a useless gimick no one cares about. Why waste resources on it?

 

Well it's in the game...part of the community does seem to like it...although a small community...why not let that community help shape conclave into it's true potential? Compile information, a list of things that can be changed, added, or removed...brainstorm...and maybe someone  with the power to oversee this detailed feeback and relay it to those who can see if anything can be implemented can communicate with the community now and then. 

 

Obviously it's something that would take time...not a quick fix of course....but if it's staying in the game...why not? Let the community discuss it, give the feedback to someone like I said...and have that basically in their suggestion box to look at when they actually can afford to do so. Maybe they already do...I have no idea...

 

But yea man. It's pretty fun. I'm posting this cause I like playing it. I'd think people who reply are generally as interested in it as I am....otherwise...why read threads about a game mode not cared about?....then again...some people are just bored I guess.

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

3 hours ago, (PS4)AhaloAskewed said:

Are these discussions about conclave worth anything? Is conclave going to be left how it is for the next X amount of years?

I'm actually new to the conclave experience...but I really like it so far. It's pretty fun, and different from what other games have to differ. It has it's own issues though like

-some balancing

-being unable to invite friends to play ON YOUR TEAM, and in general the matchmaker is just weird

- ranking, SBMM, and how long someone can play in the beginner phase before being pushed into the next level.

Etc.

 

A lot of cool stuff can happen with conclave imo...of course I do get that PVE is the heart of warframe. Though I do believe conclave would just enhance the experience and make it even more fun, and under the right circumstances...fun to grind such a playlist. 

So are these threads worth anything? I've looked up some issues on Google and old threads from previous years pop up with no answers, some of which still seem to be issues today. 

People have said the devs basically don't care about conclave. I think there's a community that would love to help with detailed feedback on what works, doesn't work, what could be added/removed and/or improved etc etc. 

These threads don't get much traffic. I'm just wondering...is it worth actively posting on this side of the forums?

Well the conclave dev team were rushed off to help with the development of the plains of eidolon. The last major update and fixes were done when the chains of harrow came out and at that point conclave was the most fun and balanced it has ever been.

I do think the forums get looked at by each team. I think that because each new big update that comes to the game requires every member of digital extremes working on it in order to meet deadlines has ultimately worsened and left other content in disrepair. 

Also side note if you want to be shown the ropes about conclave then hit me up on PlayStation my dude

[Uhkretor]

2 hours ago, (PS4)AhaloAskewed said:

For a gimmick I gotta say it's not that bad man

Never said it was bad. Just pointed out the reasons why practically no one runs it.

[(PSN)AhaloAskewed]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

Well the conclave dev team were rushed off to help with the development of the plains of eidolon. The last major update and fixes were done when the chains of harrow came out and at that point conclave was the most fun and balanced it has ever been.

I do think the forums get looked at by each team. I think that because each new big update that comes to the game requires every member of digital extremes working on it in order to meet deadlines has ultimately worsened and left other content in disrepair. 

Also side note if you want to be shown the ropes about conclave then hit me up on PlayStation my dude

This is refreshing to hear man. Glad someone around here knows something. Thanks for the info dude. Hit me up anytime bro. I've only started playing conclave kinda recently. I don't have many weapons let alone slots lol. It feels awesome using the Latron in it tho. It feels like a dmr from halo to me haha. 

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)AhaloAskewed said:

This is refreshing to hear man. Glad someone around here knows something. Thanks for the info dude. Hit me up anytime bro. I've only started playing conclave kinda recently. I don't have many weapons let alone slots lol. It feels awesome using the Latron in it tho. It feels like a dmr from halo to me haha. 

Then you will love the burston prime. Its a little underpowered but really helps get you used to tracking fast players to land all your bursts to get the real damage reward.

[(PSN)AhaloAskewed]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

Then you will love the burston prime. Its a little underpowered but really helps get you used to tracking fast players to land all your bursts to get the real damage reward.

I'll have to try that once I get it. Is the regular burston not worth making?

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

14 hours ago, (PS4)AhaloAskewed said:

I'll have to try that once I get it. Is the regular burston not worth making?

Its just not as fun or good imo, the prime is much better

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

I can tell you as a PvE player that I do not want them to work on PvP when the primary focus of warframe is still lacking. Not to mention hardly anyone plays PvP and it is absolutley not worth the investment no matter what they do or add to the mode. I played convlave once upon a time but it was so boring it glt stale wothin a few days and to make it worthwhile would mean less PvE content to enjoy since it would have to be all hands on deck and that does not mean people would even give the revamped Conclave a try either! So with all due respect make due with what you have and go play Cod, battlefield, or Destiny for your PvP fix...

Edited August 24, 2019 by (XB1)Zweimander

[(PSN)AhaloAskewed]

On 2019-08-24 at 7:33 AM, (XB1)Zweimander said:

I can tell you as a PvE player that I do not want them to work on PvP when the primary focus of warframe is still lacking. Not to mention hardly anyone plays PvP and it is absolutley not worth the investment no matter what they do or add to the mode. I played convlave once upon a time but it was so boring it glt stale wothin a few days and to make it worthwhile would mean less PvE content to enjoy since it would have to be all hands on deck and that does not mean people would even give the revamped Conclave a try either! So with all due respect make due with what you have and go play Cod, battlefield, or Destiny for your PvP fix...

Go play (insert generic reply of game X) has to be one of the worst and annoying replies anyone can give. That's like me telling you to play a game with better pve than warframe if you made a thread about pve lacking. Or me telling you to play another game if you felt like the lore and story in warframe sucked. Weakest replies ever for an open discussion on what can be done to enhance the player experience in the topic within whatever thread it may be. 

If all anyone did was point to a game with that specifically better aspect in it....how the heck would any game improve?

 

I'm not suggesting DROP everything to work on the small slice of the game known as conclave. Relax. It's almost like you didn't even read the entire OP though dude. With all due respect, these types or replies for ANY topic are just super annoying. 

 

I don't distinguish myself as a "pve" or "pvp" player. I just play warframe. They're both part of the same game. I enjoy both, and my topic is pretty self explanatory. Someone summed the answer up for me already though. Mentioning that there is a team that works on it when time permits it. Which is all I really wanted to know. If these topics are worth having. If it will eventually get worked on...if the discussions here get looked at in terms of feedback...

 It's just annoying to see

- go play cod

Says the player with absolutely ZERO interest in this game mode...which makes me wonder why they even clicked on the thread in the first place. 

But people with interest in the game mode usually have meaningful stuff to discuss about their opinion....that isn't just "hey go play game X cause.....it's better"

As far as if people play it...I find matches. It feels like a mix of new players to that mode and people settled in. I mean...technically I'm new to it. I'm not new to knowing how to aim at anything other than the Ai in a video game though. To me that's what makes pvp in a game fun an dynamic. All people react differently. They aren't programmed Ai doing the same thing over and over. So it's a unique different thrill. 

 

But hey, if you don't like it that's totally fine man. Not everyone cares about it and I definitely never suggested it's the highlight of this game either. I'm pretty sure I said that in the OP. 

 

Sorry to ramble on. I'm sure you get what I'm saying though. It would be nice to brainstorm with people interested in this game mode vs reading "go play cod if you want pvp"....which actually is a game I really dislike btw.

[kapn655321]

On 2019-08-20 at 5:12 PM, (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z said:

The lack of interest from the community isn't because PVP is inherently bad, but rather it has no business in Warframe.

I think things like Lunaro, if better worked into the whole experience would be welcome.
Like, teams on Cetus and Fortuna, maybe?
Something to tie it in to the rest of the experience better.

The different loadouts/balance/community is what breaks it.
Too many things are just a few shades too removed.
That's all it takes to have a dead mechanic.
Behavioral Economics is a whole field of study all about this result.

Like Frame Fighter.. but that's a different thread.

Edited August 26, 2019 by kapn655321

[Uhkretor]

8 hours ago, (PS4)AhaloAskewed said:

Go play (insert generic reply of game X) has to be one of the worst and annoying replies anyone can give.

Hey, I go play the latest Shadow Warrior games whenever I get tired of Warframe's 1-button melee select-use... Because ending those two games solely with the Katana on the last difficulty takes away the frustration of the flexibility loss of the current Melee amalgam... Yeah, I won't call it "system" because it isn't a system, not yet.

 

As a PvP system, the Conclave is more than enough for it... But for many, its insufficient.

Well... Insufficient is having PvP specific games with just one map (yes, looking at you right now, Riot) that occupy 40GBs on the HDD and calling it a Triple-A game, when its nothing more than an Alpha with so many graphical "improvements" and reskinnings that the whole set together makes it stupid and senseless, not to mention a total waste of HDD, especially since it requires Win10 to run, now. (yeah, anything that doesn't run on a base, clean, Win7 installation with absolutely no updates installed can't say that it "can be executed" on Win7) This, as a practical example of "insufficient".

 

Now, we all know that Warframe is a PvE game (Solo/Co-op). The Conclave is supposed to be there as a variation, not a substitute, to PvE, for players that don't really want to do PvE at that moment... The reason why there are no PvE mods working with the Conclave is specifically to increase the range of choices of available equipment (Warframes and/or weapons) for the player, using them with their natural stats, adjusted specifically (and fully isolated from PvE) for the Conclave. There isn't much room for improvement on the Conclave, except adding maps and/or game modes and adding more Warframes/weapons to it... Players already get Affinity Points almost as fast as Sanctuary Onslaught/Elite Sanctuary Onslaught, and they get stuff that can be used in the Conclave (and some can also be used on PvE) and, apparently, players can even get PvE resource rewards from it.

 

[Kontrollo]

19 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

...

As a PvP system, the Conclave is more than enough for it... But for many, its insufficient.

...

Now, we all know that Warframe is a PvE game (Solo/Co-op). The Conclave is supposed to be there as a variation, not a substitute, to PvE, for players that don't really want to do PvE at that moment... The reason why there are no PvE mods working with the Conclave is specifically to increase the range of choices of available equipment (Warframes and/or weapons) for the player, using them with their natural stats, adjusted specifically (and fully isolated from PvE) for the Conclave. There isn't much room for improvement on the Conclave, except adding maps and/or game modes and adding more Warframes/weapons to it... Players already get Affinity Points almost as fast as Sanctuary Onslaught/Elite Sanctuary Onslaught, and they get stuff that can be used in the Conclave (and some can also be used on PvE) and, apparently, players can even get PvE resource rewards from it.

This feel a bit like you're making it up on the go:

• Initially, we had some PvE mods in Conclave 2.0, e.g. Steady Hands and Handspring. Especially the latter was basically mandatory against melee, so these mods got phased out in favour of more balanced Conclave-only mods and mechanics. So there was no full isolation in the beginning, it evolved that way to make it better.
   
• There's a lot of room for improvement in tweaking weapon, Warframe and ability stats. But that only happens sporadically anymore these days, if at all. Zaws even got removed by request because they were imbalanced, and there are still other outliers. And new things that have not been made available, at all.
   
• Players do not get Affinity Points almost as fast as SO/ESO, that's just laughable.
   
• The following is an end-of-match reward screen. 500 of a basic resource after a match lasting up to 10 minute is not exactly great, right? (At least the weekly challenge gives some rare resources, standing and a random Stance.) Also, these are not "PvE resources". You need them to expand your Arsenal in Conclave, too.
   
  Spoiler

  

 

@OP: Not much going on here right now, the Conclave team is basically non-existant at the moment. However, there's no way to tell if someone is reading these and making a list of things to address for when they have some time to spend on it again. Let's hope this will change again in the future.

Also, shout-out to maciejs, the guy in charge of the Dedicated Servers. He's been great ever since.

[Razanzel]

On 2019-08-26 at 3:09 AM, (PS4)AhaloAskewed said:

 

There's many people here that wants PvP to be a thing.

My guess is DE deliberately don't put time in it because they don't want to. Maybe because all the efforts in designing this PvE experience is hard for them to attach/be relevant into a PvP environnement. All the Operator features, crazy gazillion damage weapon builds and thousands of synergies would be almost impossible to include in PvP (that's why they limited our choices to certain frames and weapons). All the mentality of going through huge maps super fast, and traveling in more open-worlds like PoE or OV would be absent.

Or maybe because they have a side project on which they are building upon what they've learned from Warframe. (crazy theory yes, yes...shoot me in the head)

Anyways, you're not alone with your thoughts , I would also love to PvP with my favorite frame(s), no other games could do it for me they way I see it. I also wanted to point out that those who reply negative and unconstructive posts don't get it. Don't take it personaly and don't try to argue/understand them.

A good PvP mode would fill a huge hole in Warframe that I know some people are feeling. It's always fun and challenging and doesn't need too much updates when done correctly. CS:GO is fun the way it is, chess is fun the way it is (yeah, chess is PvP), that's just the nature of it imho. Only DE knowws what's up tbh.

My last input would be that, including Mastery Rank and Operators in PvP could be a nice factor that encourage players to go back and forth, give them a reason to explore the game even if they only want to PvP (maybe DE fears that some players would not explore their beautiful game ?)

Peace oy

[Cuchullin]

I think conclave is in the unique position of not having enough players because it needs to be updated but not getting updated because it doesn't have enough players. Personally I would like a viable option for PvP even though I'm not very good at it. The problem with this however is that the movement mechanics that work so well in the rest of the game can create a massive unbalance all by itself for players who need to take the time for aiming at a target that's almost literally bouncing off the walls. An over exaggeration perhaps but not but much i think.

[(PSN)AhaloAskewed]

15 hours ago, Razanzel said:

There's many people here that wants PvP to be a thing.

My guess is DE deliberately don't put time in it because they don't want to. Maybe because all the efforts in designing this PvE experience is hard for them to attach/be relevant into a PvP environnement. All the Operator features, crazy gazillion damage weapon builds and thousands of synergies would be almost impossible to include in PvP (that's why they limited our choices to certain frames and weapons). All the mentality of going through huge maps super fast, and traveling in more open-worlds like PoE or OV would be absent.

Or maybe because they have a side project on which they are building upon what they've learned from Warframe. (crazy theory yes, yes...shoot me in the head)

Anyways, you're not alone with your thoughts , I would also love to PvP with my favorite frame(s), no other games could do it for me they way I see it. I also wanted to point out that those who reply negative and unconstructive posts don't get it. Don't take it personaly and don't try to argue/understand them.

A good PvP mode would fill a huge hole in Warframe that I know some people are feeling. It's always fun and challenging and doesn't need too much updates when done correctly. CS:GO is fun the way it is, chess is fun the way it is (yeah, chess is PvP), that's just the nature of it imho. Only DE knowws what's up tbh.

My last input would be that, including Mastery Rank and Operators in PvP could be a nice factor that encourage players to go back and forth, give them a reason to explore the game even if they only want to PvP (maybe DE fears that some players would not explore their beautiful game ?)

Peace oy

I totally agree with you man. I can definitely tell they took a solid shot at it, and from what I'm understanding it will be awhile before they take another stab at it since there's other features and expansion type stuff they're currently on right now. 

 

My only suggestion would be 1 person that oversees the feedback and perhaps relays or makes note of everything and interactions once in awhile so we don't feel like we're wasting time talking about it. Those that do play and have that genuine interest in pvp I can see coming together and just suggesting changes and whatnot. 

 

Long story short...why not let the community help in other words. Also, yes...to many variables like weapons etc muddy the already muddy water. I actually made another thread about some ideas I had about that topic but it probably was a waste of time. The only reply I got was really...not constructive. Where basically a guy told me he enjoys the way it feels to move in the game where I pointed out "feeling good" doesn't equate to it being balanced or making practical cents in action. Kinda needs a balance of the too. For it too feel good, and feel like it fits within the game mode's settings and design. 

But yea I'm done having senseless arguments with people who apparently think "this is as good as it gets" or the generic "bro go play (insert generic cod game here) for your pvp fix."

[(PSN)AhaloAskewed]

8 hours ago, Cuchullin said:

I think conclave is in the unique position of not having enough players because it needs to be updated but not getting updated because it doesn't have enough players. Personally I would like a viable option for PvP even though I'm not very good at it. The problem with this however is that the movement mechanics that work so well in the rest of the game can create a massive unbalance all by itself for players who need to take the time for aiming at a target that's almost literally bouncing off the walls. An over exaggeration perhaps but not but much i think.

I think something can be done about that imo. There's. Few routes to consider. 

 

A basic cooldown for the dodge roll. This won't affect sliding or bullet jumping since you're on a pretty set path with those. However, dodging repeatedly and getting away from dying rolling around and panic melees dont actually equal skill imo. Dodgings too much of a get outa jail free card...which I'm of course guilty of using myself since it's currently in the game. 

The cooldown time would be designed to fit into the equation of how long a 1v1 should last, and the overall average ttk within that timeframe. So basically...you want dodge to be used to quickly report yourself and potentially turn the tides in your favor....not to rolling around like a madman to survive haha especially with mods that grant increased damage resistance during those roll frames. 

 

Another alternative is basically a stamina gauge. Which would reflect stuff like sprinting, dodge rolling, bullet jumping etc...however..I feel that the game would then become too slow. 

 

Disabling shield regen if you immediately try to flee a 1v1 is another way as well. You can run away as soon as your shields begin recharging, but if you try to run away immediately under fire and taking damage your shields will be on hold until you stop running. Then the normal shield recharge timer starts.

This prevents someone basically just running around in a circle until shields recharge while you're chasing that person down only to find their shields are all the way back up. A potential change can be allowing shields to recharge faster by default, but having sprinting cause that specific delay when you get caught with your pants down and panic and immediately just beging running away to some corner 

 

Those are just things to try though. They may or may not work and may make things worse or better. This is just a open discussion though....so why not just throw ideas out anyways lol. 

 

 

[Rubbertubtub01]

6 hours ago, (PS4)AhaloAskewed said:

I think something can be done about that imo. There's. Few routes to consider. 

A basic cooldown for the dodge roll. This won't affect sliding or bullet jumping since you're on a pretty set path with those. However, dodging repeatedly and getting away from dying rolling around and panic melees dont actually equal skill imo. Dodgings too much of a get outa jail free card...which I'm of course guilty of using myself since it's currently in the game. 

The cooldown time would be designed to fit into the equation of how long a 1v1 should last, and the overall average ttk within that timeframe. So basically...you want dodge to be used to quickly report yourself and potentially turn the tides in your favor....not to rolling around like a madman to survive haha especially with mods that grant increased damage resistance during those roll frames. 

Another alternative is basically a stamina gauge. Which would reflect stuff like sprinting, dodge rolling, bullet jumping etc...however..I feel that the game would then become too slow. 

Disabling shield regen if you immediately try to flee a 1v1 is another way as well. You can run away as soon as your shields begin recharging, but if you try to run away immediately under fire and taking damage your shields will be on hold until you stop running. Then the normal shield recharge timer starts.

This prevents someone basically just running around in a circle until shields recharge while you're chasing that person down only to find their shields are all the way back up. A potential change can be allowing shields to recharge faster by default, but having sprinting cause that specific delay when you get caught with your pants down and panic and immediately just beging running away to some corner 

Those are just things to try though. They may or may not work and may make things worse or better. This is just a open discussion though....so why not just throw ideas out anyways lol. 

He's talking about stuff like this...

 

[(PSN)AhaloAskewed]

7 hours ago, Rubbertubtub01 said:

He's talking about stuff like this...

 

That's not using the crouch/dodge/slide roll button and jumping around? It's LB on PS4. Same principles apply with my reply if it is. Something that prevents spamming that ridiculous movement. It really just looks ridiculous.

Idk though I'm not an expert at the movment mechanics in this game. Is that some extra movment mechanic that has nothing to do with the button I mentioned?...

At any rate...I didn't know movment could be THAT ridiculous though. 

[Kontrollo]

4 hours ago, (PS4)AhaloAskewed said:

That's not using the crouch/dodge/slide roll button and jumping around? It's LB on PS4. Same principles apply with my reply if it is. Something that prevents spamming that ridiculous movement. It really just looks ridiculous.

Idk though I'm not an expert at the movment mechanics in this game. Is that some extra movment mechanic that has nothing to do with the button I mentioned?...

At any rate...I didn't know movment could be THAT ridiculous though. 

These kinds of reactions pop up often in discussions about Conclave and Warframe's mobility system.

But one thing I think people don't understand is that you always have to be able to compensate with your aim for your enemy's movements, but also your own. If you can't, then:

• You better try to get into an advantageous position and slow down to hit your opponent.
• It is in the end a problem of a very high skill ceiling and matchmaking not accounting for that, not the mobility itself.

Now I'm not saying everything is unicorns and rainbows when it comes to all the mobility tools at our disposal (but I don't want to go into detail on that right now).

However, I know that name in the video, and while we haven't fought each other, I can definitely tell you he has found a unique way to also incorporate camera switching (left/right shoulder) into his playstyle, and has been at it for years. Watch it again at ~7 minutes where he stops doing that and slows down a bit.

Mobility as a whole should probably not be judged by videos like this one.

 

Now here's a video I like to link because it shows how casual players fight each other in this game. Take note on how and when they use Warframe's mobility tools:

Spoiler

 

 

[(PSN)AhaloAskewed]

15 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

These kinds of reactions pop up often in discussions about Conclave and Warframe's mobility system.

But one thing I think people don't understand is that you always have to be able to compensate with your aim for your enemy's movements, but also your own. If you can't, then:

• You better try to get into an advantageous position and slow down to hit your opponent.
• It is in the end a problem of a very high skill ceiling and matchmaking not accounting for that, not the mobility itself.

Now I'm not saying everything is unicorns and rainbows when it comes to all the mobility tools at our disposal (but I don't want to go into detail on that right now).

However, I know that name in the video, and while we haven't fought each other, I can definitely tell you he has found a unique way to also incorporate camera switching (left/right shoulder) into his playstyle, and has been at it for years. Watch it again at ~7 minutes where he stops doing that and slows down a bit.

Mobility as a whole should probably not be judged by videos like this one.

 

Now here's a video I like to link because it shows how casual players fight each other in this game. Take note on how and when they use Warframe's mobility tools:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I'm sorry but taking 30+ seconds to kill your opponent isn't very indicative of a high skill ceiling man. It looks like hella broken mechanics to me in this game mode....(this is referring to the vid the other person posted)

That really says all that there needs to be said imho. I play on console, so I know the skillset would be different in terms of how you play the game but...it's like...dude...look at that. Over 30 seconds? That's indicative of skill to you?....mix in an actual team of players and then what?...

There's a reason the game doesn't have a real competitive mode...a ranked playlist...True SBMM...party restrictions etc...I mean its a upward battle just to get the fundamentals of gameplay in line on it's own...and we aren't even considering weapon balances or warframe balances yet. 

 

Again, I play on console so I know it's a little different...however I do love me some competitive ranked FPS games. I own an a xbox and a ps4. I've been to some local tournament's in Microsoft stores for some tournaments and played other games that basically had "tournament settings" incorporated into playlists for players to have those settings if they wanted a true competitive experience. (Some old school games too....kinda)

Very different game, but even halo 3 (this game doesn't even have sprint in it) for example had a MLG playlist where the settings were actually different than the settings of the base default game. Things like base movement speed were increased, bullet damage from the BR, amongst other changes. The changes were incorporated and brainstormed by actual players. Even the latest halo (halo 5) has tournament settings...and sure these games are on console...there's more aim assist etc...but the tournaments even have big payouts, real sponsored players play them etc. 

 

Of course I can't directly correlate one game to another....but if a game like halo 5 has had an ENORMOUS backlash by allowing your character to simply sprint in it....and then consider how basically it was once broken (in previous halo games like halo 4 ), used to just run around an panick and get your shields back without consequences...then have the dev team overhaul that feature and "balance sprint"....dialing back the speed, stoping your shield recharge timer, even causing a slight delay if you decide to sprint before your shields even begin regenerating....and all this actually drastically increasing the skill ceiling....I mean looking at a player flip around non stop and take over 30 seconds to kill the other player....man....it just doesn't at all look skillfull to me dude. 

 

I mean maaaaybe if the dude killed the player faster....maybe a little?...but skill in any shooter game requires a lot more than mastering how you move in a game....aiming while under pressure, a good strafe, map awareness and knowledge of items/powerups, skill jumps if they're in the game, button combos if they're in the game, positioning, knowing spawns etc..there's a sizable amount of things to facor in skill...which I don't see when I just see 2 players flipping all over the place taking over 30 seconds to get the kill in a 1v1. Like what?  Lol

 

Warframe doesn't need a true MLG mode or any kinda crazy ranked setting...but it should at least be balanced and...make sense for how it feels within the pvp game mode..that's kinda the bottom line for me that's all. Regardless, its fun to mess around and play though. I just gave some background on what I've played and experienced because I've seen mobility tweaked in games where basically mobility just lowers the skill gap way too far in some cases. 

 

Just my opinion. I know yours is different. Which is fine. 

 

 

[Kontrollo]

6 hours ago, (PS4)AhaloAskewed said:

I'm sorry but taking 30+ seconds to kill your opponent isn't very indicative of a high skill ceiling man. It looks like hella broken mechanics to me in this game mode....(this is referring to the vid the other person posted)

That really says all that there needs to be said imho. I play on console, so I know the skillset would be different in terms of how you play the game but...it's like...dude...look at that. Over 30 seconds? That's indicative of skill to you?....mix in an actual team of players and then what?...

There's a reason the game doesn't have a real competitive mode...a ranked playlist...True SBMM...party restrictions etc...I mean its a upward battle just to get the fundamentals of gameplay in line on it's own...and we aren't even considering weapon balances or warframe balances yet.

Nice rant, I'm only going to address the part that I quoted. It kinda misses what I was trying to say there:

22 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

I can definitely tell you he has found a unique way to also incorporate camera switching (left/right shoulder) into his playstyle, and has been at it for years. ... Mobility as a whole should probably not be judged by videos like this one.

But if you specifically want to talk about that video: They're both using shotguns and have to be at close range to take full advantage. I'm not going into detailed damage calcs, so here's a simplified version: He's using a Banshee with 225 total of Shields + Health (Armour is negligible here). His opponent has a Strun with a damage total of 156 IPS. That means he only has to hit twice and doesn't even have to land two full hits (on the body alone) to kill. Strun has a fire rate of 2.5. Also, if he manages to hit once and follow up with an air melee, it can basically be instant.

They both know that, so they're moving faster than they can aim reliably. Also, they're not using any abilities, either.

 

As for true SBMM and competitive rankings, etc: There was a small team working on Conclave when they overhauled it in early 2015. Players have requested skill-based matchmaking even back then, and what got introduced in early 2016 was Recruit Conditioning (Patch). Then, Dedicated Servers got added in late 2016, too. In 2018 almost nothing happened anymore. This year there were a few improvements to balance in one patch which weren't even listed in the patch notes. Among other things the removal of Zaws.

That's the reality of PvP in this game.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Kontrollo
RC Patch Notes link