Why Eidolon hunts shouldn't have a Time Gate.

[Isokaze_BestKaze]

2 hours ago, Cerebrophage said:

So, because you want to be able to push your maximization to greater heights, we should exclude those that can't.

Elitism doesn't solve them problem, we need another solution.

I seriously fail to understand how you could interpret the post you quoted like that.

He said that being carried while doing nothing remove the value of the reward, which is true. And if you don't have the gear for 3x3 you should start by gearing yourself, which is a mid/long term goal, but a goal to accomplish nonetheless.

[Rogunz]

6 hours ago, 5p33dy_01 said:

it is very easy to GET the chance. you HAVE the chance EVERY single night rotation.

disregarding market prices.
1) by removing the time gate, it takes away one of the very things that make the game interesting for a longer period for newer players.
2) by removing the time gate, it makes grouping with more experienced players more frequent, which means there is higher chances people wont even earn the rewards (it becomes participation rewards)
3) by removing the time gate, it makes RARE POWERFUL drops become more common (just join a group doing eidolons) because you will be carried through the process, which hinders any type of challenge to the event.
4) by removing the time gate, it makes way for a huge leeching player base. ESO/bounties is bad enough, we dont need more frequent leechers in eidolons too.

I have no idea what "newer players" you are talking about, everyone relatively new I know avoids eidolons because of how incredibly toxic the community for them is.

Your other 3 points are just "people might leech more" which doesn't make much sense since the time limits existing directly incentivizes leeching. If you don't kill an eidolon in time you get absolutely nothing for your trouble but you need to kill them to get a good amp/focus/operator arcanes to contribute more to eidolon fights.

What is keeping your hypothetical leechers away isn't the time limits, it's the massive amount of toxicity they cause. If they were removed and all of that toxicity got moved to premades more people would do them but it wouldn't create more leechers. The spike in players new to eidolons would mean pubs would temporarily have more peoples who didn't contribute much but that would only last a couple weeks while those players geared up and learned the fights.

The only things people really leech in are missions that can't be sped up, for everything else people try to complete the objectives as fast as they can. Leechers exist in ESO because there often one person who easily kills everything without your help and trying as hard as you can wouldn't actually change anything. Real "leechers" in bounties are pretty much nonexistant, there are sometimes newer players who don't contribute much but I've only seen someone go off and ignore the objectives once or twice.

 

3 hours ago, Cerebrophage said:

That does represent a flaw within the community. It would make it hard for DE to do anything about that. How would you suggest they fix the issue?

Removing the time limit would basically fix it since it's the entire reason why they are so toxic when nothing else in warframe is.

 

1 hour ago, Isokaze_BestKaze said:

And if you don't have the gear for 3x3 you should start by gearing yourself, which is a mid/long term goal, but a goal to accomplish nonetheless.

The problem is that the best way to get the gear/abilities that matter most is by doing tridolons.

[DrivaMain]

3 hours ago, Rogunz said:

The problem is that the best way to get the gear/abilities that matter most is by doing tridolons.

You are hugely mistaken, you can just repeatedly fight The Teralyst (The weakest of the tree) in 1 night cycle for Sentient cores and Eidolon shards. If you can’t do it or your amp is too weak (rank 1 Quills amp is recommended for Teralyst), Kill Eidolon Vomvalyst or hunt sentient fighters on LUA for sentient cores.

You don’t need 2 set of energize or godly rivens to do Tridolons.

Edited September 13, 2019 by DrivaMain

[Rogunz]

2 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

You don’t need 2 set of energize or godly rivens to do Tridolons.

You don't need anything but a crafted amp to do a Tridolon but they were talking about a 3x3. Taking down the shields is the slowest part and to speed it up you need a lot of focus and amp arcanes.

[Cerebrophage]

11 hours ago, Isokaze_BestKaze said:

I seriously fail to understand how you could interpret the post you quoted like that.

He said that being carried while doing nothing remove the value of the reward, which is true. And if you don't have the gear for 3x3 you should start by gearing yourself, which is a mid/long term goal, but a goal to accomplish nonetheless.

At some point, everyone's going to be carrying someone. There's going to be someone who can do a 2x3, but can't find groups for 2x3, because no one does that, so he has to keep carrying the 1x3 community, yet he doesn't want to because he wants to push himself higher to the next bracket. The same is true of all brackets of all players. Most people think they're better than they actually are (in my observation.)

That being said - this elite behavior does not help anyone at all. It's not such a big deal if one were to miss a set of eidolons in the grand scheme of things as it's just a game...

... Unless they're worried about the time gate...

[Cerebrophage]

9 hours ago, Rogunz said:

Removing the time limit would basically fix it since it's the entire reason why they are so toxic when nothing else in warframe is.

Exactly.

[(PSN)dtdionne]

Agreed

[Isokaze_BestKaze]

Again I fail to see where is the toxicity you guys claim there is. I've done my fair share of eidolon by now and I'm JUST starting to be decently geared enough to do 3x3. I still didn't see a single truly rude behaviour till now.

TBH you don't even need a real amp to starts doing tridolon. Just bring a Harrow or a Trin and take care of buffing your teammates/keeping them alive/taking care of the lures. Even with a 1/1/1 amp you can do that. Just leave the actual DPS to the Volt/Chroma/Oberon guys.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Isokaze_BestKaze

[Cerebrophage]

30 minutes ago, Isokaze_BestKaze said:

Again I fail to see where is the toxicity you guys claim there is. I've done my fair share of eidolon by now and I'm JUST starting to be decently geared enough to do 3x3. I still didn't see a single truly rude behaviour till now.

TBH you don't even need a real amp to starts doing tridolon. Just bring a Harrow or a Trin and take care of buffing your teammates/keeping them alive/taking care of the lures. Even with a 1/1/1 amp you can do that. Just leave the actual DPS to the Volt/Chroma/Oberon guys.

Speaking purely in my own experience, since I've started playing, I've advertised as Volt numerous times seeking a group for a 1x3 and still haven't found a group leaving me to attempt to kill the beasts myself to no success.

I just started getting Chroma up to snuff so I'll be able to add him to my roster. That's on the PC side.

On the PS4 Side, I have Trin, Chroma, Volt, and Oberon (all prime) and can -rarely- get a tridolon hunt simply because I don't have enough captures to be considered eligible to hunt for Tridolons.

I'm trying to find PUG squads. Don't say clan up, because finding a squad with a clan is just as effective. Everyone in the endgame doesn't want to lower it down to help the lesser players because of the 5x3 meta. It's a thing, and it's destroying the experience for newer players who are desperately and feverishly trying to play catch up to the elitists.

That being said, you could know the fights like the back of your hand - better than some people with far more captures and you'll still be rejected because of a simple statistic.

 

Technically, no, you don't need a real amp to start doing tridolon. But you do need people, which there aren't.

[Isokaze_BestKaze]

29 minutes ago, Cerebrophage said:

Speaking purely in my own experience, since I've started playing, I've advertised as Volt numerous times seeking a group for a 1x3 and still haven't found a group leaving me to attempt to kill the beasts myself to no success.

I just started getting Chroma up to snuff so I'll be able to add him to my roster. That's on the PC side.

On the PS4 Side, I have Trin, Chroma, Volt, and Oberon (all prime) and can -rarely- get a tridolon hunt simply because I don't have enough captures to be considered eligible to hunt for Tridolons.

I'm trying to find PUG squads. Don't say clan up, because finding a squad with a clan is just as effective. Everyone in the endgame doesn't want to lower it down to help the lesser players because of the 5x3 meta. It's a thing, and it's destroying the experience for newer players who are desperately and feverishly trying to play catch up to the elitists.

That being said, you could know the fights like the back of your hand - better than some people with far more captures and you'll still be rejected because of a simple statistic.

 

Technically, no, you don't need a real amp to start doing tridolon. But you do need people, which there aren't.

I did most of my Tridolon hunt with publics (only a single one with my clan actually). Nobody ever told me to f*ck off because I didn't do enough Tridolons.

So yeah, I don't have the same experience as you. Never saw much toxicity. Even when my first attempt at tridolons were pretty bad. 

Honestly if you're not fully geared for damage, just having focus on the Madurai school for Void Strike, a semi-decent amp (you can totally farm a 2-2-3 with only Teralyst and it's not even that long to do. 5 or 6 of them will suffice and anyone can kill a teralyst), and a support frame like Oberon Trin or Harrow is a safe choice. Heck you can even play Trinity with a 1-1-1 as I said since it only requires being able to kill Vomyalist to charge the Lures and afterward it's just a matter of spamming Bless enough to keep the lures alive.

Leave the Chroma, Volt, and other DPS jobs to people who are fully geared.

 

I feel like you're making a mountain out of 2, maybe 3 bad experience you had because you were unlucky. That or you're very quick to be triggered at the slightest remark. My first Tridolon with Harrow I got flamed at the beginning for the simple reason I only thought my job was to provides crit bonus for the final kill. When then explained to me they also wanted me to use my invincibility frames for the Energy Spikes, I did that too and they thanked me at the end because I adapted well to their expectation.

 

And again I have no issue with the "time gate". I think it's a good way to create a bit of challenge and push people toward improving their gear enough. At least I like this more than the stupid standing "gate" in Fortuna to be able to get the Profit Taker bounties.

[Cerebrophage]

13 hours ago, Isokaze_BestKaze said:

Leave the Chroma, Volt, and other DPS jobs to people who are fully geared.

I feel like you're making a mountain out of 2, maybe 3 bad experience you had because you were unlucky. That or you're very quick to be triggered at the slightest remark. My first Tridolon with Harrow I got flamed at the beginning for the simple reason I only thought my job was to provides crit bonus for the final kill. When then explained to me they also wanted me to use my invincibility frames for the Energy Spikes, I did that too and they thanked me at the end because I adapted well to their expectation.

With regards to my PS4 account, I should have been more specific. Those frames (and my focus/amp) were fully geared. Still, I had not been invited to any squads. I had played these modes for a year with a break for about a few months in that year. I was lucky if I was able to join in on these groups on a given day. I knew my role, I knew what I was supposed to do, and I just didn't get picked up. Many advertisements were "Must have >100 captures" or something like that. In spite of that, I'd say "Hey, Chroma Prime here for tridolon" or something like that. Rarely get invited.

 

Not making a big deal of nothing.

[Worsin]

I can see it now in the next patch notes

Added Ability to Summon Eidolons during the day at the low cost of 20p

[Enxchiol]

It seriously baffles me how some people here say that the Arcane market would crash and prices plummet due to such a change. Really? Prices of the rarer Arcanes are 1500-2000 platinum per a single R3 arcane. That's 30-50$ (rough estimate) worth of platinum. I think a little price decrease in the market would be more than welcome. 

Regards to the overall topic, totally agree with this. Let there be a reduction in the drop rates if necessary, it'll be a fair trade off. My main gripe with the time cycle is that if one wants to do Eidolons, you must log in at very specific times during the day, which contradicts what is in my opinion one of the best things about Warframe, convenience. You can do stuff whenever you want, go away, come back when you want, essentially play the game at your own time and pace. For me, this is the singular thing which has put me off from doing Eidolons.

[Nichivo]

This is a rare case where more restriction would fix the issue, limiting it to 3 tri caps per server reset would eliminate the elitist stuff as well as remove market saturation. Then they could eliminate the night cycle problem all together.