Gliding with melee...

[Otakuwolf]

Since now M2 switches from melee to firearms, it has become a bit problematic to glide while holding a melee weapon so... Maybe I'm missing something but can we NOT switch from melee to guns when pressing M2 ? It is especially problematic when some combo does require M2 to be performed.

Pressing either R or M1 should be enough for a weapon swap, especially considering that channeling will be removed later on.

[Podge]

M2 in combos is a leftover thing from the transition to melee 3.0. as far as i know, all the melee combos are getting changed, or at least most of them, along with channeling stuff.

[Otakuwolf]

19 hours ago, Podge said:

M2 in combos is a leftover thing from the transition to melee 3.0. as far as i know, all the melee combos are getting changed, or at least most of them, along with channeling stuff.

Still, is a bit of a problem to have M2 also bound to both aiming and gliding if you want to glide with your melee out

[000l000]

Le 12/09/2019 à 21:34, Otakuwolf a dit :

Still, is a bit of a problem to have M2 also bound to both aiming and gliding if you want to glide with your melee out

Why do you want to glide with your melee out in the first place ?

[Dragazer]

3 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

Why do you want to glide with your melee out in the first place ?

block and glide at the same time like we used to be able to

[000l000]

il y a 58 minutes, Dragazer a dit :

block and glide at the same time like we used to be able to

I did get that, but why ? What's the point in blocking a few seconds while gliding, unless you're into acrobatics of course. Defensively it's way more interesting to just aim down and slam the ground instead of watching enemies shooting at you for no reasons.

I get the whole "i liked that and you removed it" lament but tbh what was that precious in melee aim gliding in the first place ? Just curious cause i don't feel like i miss that much.

Edited September 20, 2019 by 000l000

[Dragazer]

2 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

I did get that, but why ?

Extra surviveability while gliding being able to block damage, also alot of guns like snipers have a really strong zoom in while gliding making it hard to navigate while gliding 

[000l000]

il y a 8 minutes, Dragazer a dit :

Extra surviveability while gliding being able to block damage, also alot of guns like snipers have a really strong zoom in while gliding making it hard to navigate while gliding 

Really not worth tbh, as i said it doesn't bring more survivability since a slam attack is way faster/safier, so you don't even need it even with a sniper rifle. You can also switch to another gun since most people who are complaining about that did like the switch feature a lot.

Never died in the air though, not sure we need to revert back for this reason only... But hey, i'm using my operator a lot to jump from one spot to another so.

Edited September 20, 2019 by 000l000

[CxLL]

Currently available fully, old style of melee gliding and blocking and all the nice mouse button combos - if you unequip primary and secondary. And don't equip the scanners during the mission. Or the tranquilizer rifle. Or the cutters. Or fishing spears. Actually fishing spears cause some inconsistent issues with melee only as well. 
But still. Possible.

[Miyabi-sama]

Gliding with melee was huge.

Blocking shots in the air felt awesome.

Facing some direction holding block on the run (not sprint) felt awesome.

Block hold was saving from accidental grapples and bombs knocking you down. It does still but less consistant since you basically have to look at enemy now.

And do not underestimate those 85% damage resists while blocking.

All in all people do aknowledge it is temporary changes within transition process. But it takes very long time. Long enough to start missing old mechanic.

[am0rtized]

For me, melee aim glide was always more about ease of use and control than about being able to block midair.  I should not have to furiously mash "E" after every jump just to be able to continue using the weapon I selected to use.  I should not have to unequip all of my other weapons to regain lost functionality (enjoy trying to disable EMP doors and cameras if you go that route).  Why take options away for no reason? 

[Miyabi-sama]

3 часа назад, am0rtized сказал:

Why take options away for no reason? 

DE is experimenting. And doing something to make transition to the new system easier.

This particular example has both sides. Good side you dont have to waste time switching melee to start a damaging and statusing combo.

The bad side is it feels like weird anime brawler or beatemup game, with exception that we have separate inputs for blades and guns instead of "comboing" shots and swings together (like DmC games were).

[000l000]

Il y a 19 heures, Miyabi-sama a dit :

Gliding with melee was huge.

Blocking shots in the air felt awesome.

Facing some direction holding block on the run (not sprint) felt awesome.

Block hold was saving from accidental grapples and bombs knocking you down. It does still but less consistant since you basically have to look at enemy now.

And do not underestimate those 85% damage resists while blocking.

All in all people do aknowledge it is temporary changes within transition process. But it takes very long time. Long enough to start missing old mechanic.

I don't get your point at all. Autoblock makes you block the exact same way as before - it's not less consistant it's working the same way - automatically.

Perhaps you did have fun blocking shots in the air but it's pretty much pointless now that we have directional slam attack. Why they hell would i hang stupidly in the air while enemies are shooting at me when i can jump at them in a second now ? Aim gliding is still a thing but tbh directional slam attack is way faster to reach far places.

Lots of people are complaining about this features but i still don't see any viable argument except from a few bugs and tweaks here and there such as gunblades and a few mods to be reworked.

[Miyabi-sama]

11 минут назад, 000l000 сказал:

Perhaps you did have fun blocking shots in the air but it's pretty much pointless now that we have directional slam attack. Why they hell would i hang stupidly in the air while enemies are shooting at me when i can jump at them in a second now ?

Gotta agree. In mobility aspect directional slam is way faster and effective.

The whole system works the same way but automatically not needing an input from player. It feels different to the point you have to break habit of pressing RMB. 😃

As for block gliding it wasnt effective, but very very cool. Like when you rushing to the exit and jump above enemies' heads with Nikana, flying and deflecting bullets. Not effective. COOL.

Sometimes things in the game dont have particular meaning, just being a cool looking stuff. Adds to the fun.

Looking forward to find those crazy cool moments in the upcoming new system.

[Sikelh]

 

On 2019-09-22 at 3:51 AM, 000l000 said:

I don't get your point at all. Autoblock makes you block the exact same way as before - it's not less consistant it's working the same way - automatically.

Perhaps you did have fun blocking shots in the air but it's pretty much pointless now that we have directional slam attack. Why they hell would i hang stupidly in the air while enemies are shooting at me when i can jump at them in a second now ? Aim gliding is still a thing but tbh directional slam attack is way faster to reach far places.

Lots of people are complaining about this features but i still don't see any viable argument except from a few bugs and tweaks here and there such as gunblades and a few mods to be reworked.

Autoblock forces you to ALWAYS block and it interrupts certain actions. It also doesn't typically kick in until you've been hit once and triggers gliding at times you DON'T want to glide.

There are also some situations where you don't want to be immediately returned to the ground such as clearing a large gap.

Gliding is also used to interrupt bullet jump animations low to the ground so you can jump again immediately for fast movement.

And just as important I don't want the game to automatically do anything related to how my controls work. This system makes basically impossible for me to have the game do what I want and ONLY what I want and ONLY when I want it to do it. 

It feels clunky as hell to go to glide for ANY reason and have it whip out my gun and zoom in. Or to use a charge attack(usually gunblades or throwing weapons but I occasionally throw one out on my Galatine) and have the game block whether I want it to or not. Or if you felt like fighting the stalker in melee just for funsies? Enjoy getting staggered everytime you automatically block because that's what he does when you try and block him which you now do not have the option to not do.

Before it changed the control based on the context of "Is melee or gun out?" which is the better way to do things. It gives more potential control options and has less buttons shoehorned into doing multiple things at all times.

There's quite a few reasons that have been put forth MANY times by MANY people. Especially if you view the main feedback thread that got unstickied long before we got any input from DE and when we eventually did get something it was just a long winded non-answer that told us nothing and was just a polite way to handwave everybody off "Yeah sure we're totally listening guys" is basically all it amounted to.

[000l000]

Il y a 7 heures, Sikelh a dit :

 

Autoblock forces you to ALWAYS block and it interrupts certain actions. It also doesn't typically kick in until you've been hit once and triggers gliding at times you DON'T want to glide.

There are also some situations where you don't want to be immediately returned to the ground such as clearing a large gap.

Gliding is also used to interrupt bullet jump animations low to the ground so you can jump again immediately for fast movement.

And just as important I don't want the game to automatically do anything related to how my controls work. This system makes basically impossible for me to have the game do what I want and ONLY what I want and ONLY when I want it to do it. 

It feels clunky as hell to go to glide for ANY reason and have it whip out my gun and zoom in. Or to use a charge attack(usually gunblades or throwing weapons but I occasionally throw one out on my Galatine) and have the game block whether I want it to or not. Or if you felt like fighting the stalker in melee just for funsies? Enjoy getting staggered everytime you automatically block because that's what he does when you try and block him which you now do not have the option to not do.

Before it changed the control based on the context of "Is melee or gun out?" which is the better way to do things. It gives more potential control options and has less buttons shoehorned into doing multiple things at all times.

There's quite a few reasons that have been put forth MANY times by MANY people. Especially if you view the main feedback thread that got unstickied long before we got any input from DE and when we eventually did get something it was just a long winded non-answer that told us nothing and was just a polite way to handwave everybody off "Yeah sure we're totally listening guys" is basically all it amounted to.

No offense but what you said still doesn't make melee gliding more relevant. Perhaps you find glinding with a gun "clunky" for your own reasons but as i already said, melee 2.9 did introduce directional melee slam, it's easier and faster to travel this way, especially with a melee weapon. So if you prefer to complain instead of actually using what DE implements to improve their game, that's none of our concerns.

Why the hell would you want to melee glide in the first place, seriously ? That was the stupidest thing to do, taking shots freely without being able to retaliate. I don't think that's the pinnacle of fun for any brawler fan, and i don't think that your so-called "many" people (a few guys and quite often the same tbh) would change anything at that cause melee gliding didn't make any sense in the first place.

Shoot them with a gun or go melee instantly, that makes sense.

[Sikelh]

16 hours ago, 000l000 said:

No offense but what you said still doesn't make melee gliding more relevant. Perhaps you find glinding with a gun "clunky" for your own reasons but as i already said, melee 2.9 did introduce directional melee slam, it's easier and faster to travel this way, especially with a melee weapon. So if you prefer to complain instead of actually using what DE implements to improve their game, that's none of our concerns.

Why the hell would you want to melee glide in the first place, seriously ? That was the stupidest thing to do, taking shots freely without being able to retaliate. I don't think that's the pinnacle of fun for any brawler fan, and i don't think that your so-called "many" people (a few guys and quite often the same tbh) would change anything at that cause melee gliding didn't make any sense in the first place.

Shoot them with a gun or go melee instantly, that makes sense.

I gave reasons why one would do so. There's also the noncombat platforming sections on certain tilesets as well as sections where you'd rather rush past. Why would you want to glide with melee? No zoom. 

Whether it's an improvement or not is a matter of opinion plenty of people feel 2.9 is a massive downgrade.

I also mentioned situations where the slam is less than ideal because once again:

  1.Pits exist. As well as just particularly long gaps that aren't above pits but you still have to clear.

  2.It's often faster to bullet jump rapidly than to lock yourself in a slam and be stuck in place for a second after hitting the ground.

Some of us also only like to use our guns on the enemies where you CAN'T melee and use our melee for everything else.

And as for the many people there are still people coming forward saying it's bad. The only reason it won't change anything is this "upgrade" is clearly someones pet project and they won't hear criticism of it.  And it's funny people get so defensive about it considering most are asking just to have the OPTION to use the old controls or the new ones as people please so both people who like the new controls and people who don't can still enjoy the game.

And you could do it instantly without shoehorning the controls together. Removing holster time and making it cycle all three instead of hold to melee would have achieved the same thing without destroying the controls although there was never a problem in the first place. And that is what would have made sense.

[Otakuwolf]

On 2019-09-20 at 6:55 AM, 000l000 said:

I did get that, but why ? What's the point in blocking a few seconds while gliding, unless you're into acrobatics of course. Defensively it's way more interesting to just aim down and slam the ground instead of watching enemies shooting at you for no reasons.

Because there is a lot of hostile stuff flying in the air as well.

Hitscan bullets, projectiles, enemy melee dash attacks, and any kind of random thing that can come your way and potentially knock you off course as you pass by, and even more so if you are holding a gun instead of a melee... unless you can parry those.

Sure you might say "Hey, just direction slam to the guy about to shoot"... ok, then what about the other guys that are going to shoot, will shoot, and are already shooting at you ? Because this is not a 1V1 game or a beat'em up with a few shmucks here and there, this is a game with lots of different enemyes in lots of different places.

Also because you can perform more accurate jumps without worrying above the things just mentioned

On 2019-09-20 at 7:08 AM, 000l000 said:

Really not worth tbh, as i said it doesn't bring more survivability since a slam attack is way faster/safier, so you don't even need it even with a sniper rifle. You can also switch to another gun since most people who are complaining about that did like the switch feature a lot.

First off, "Not worth tbh" sounds more like "Is not worth for me" and if you think so, cool for you, but what you seem to be missing is that "not worth for me" does not equal "Is not worth having at all period".

Also, sorry if I sound sarcastic here but... it doesen't bring more survivability ? Really ? Parrying bullets doesen't bring more survivability than jumping straight into them ? Did you actually stop and read that phrase before to post it ? Because that's kinda irrational if you stop and think about it

On 2019-09-22 at 9:51 AM, 000l000 said:

I don't get your point at all. Autoblock makes you block the exact same way as before - it's not less consistant it's working the same way - automatically.

No, it doesen't.

You do not block the same way as before because is indeed "automatic", which equals "Not when I want the way I want". You can experiment this yourself by doing a combo and stop to parry an enemy attack, most in particular the Heavies ground slam, it just doesen't work because you have to wait for your guy to slowly finish the animation before it goes back to idle mode for the parry, when before all you had to do was press M2 right after landing a hit and you were already in "parry" mode.

Not to mention that right now the switch from melee to gun when pressing M2 also makes certain combos inconsistent because the game can read the input as a "weapon switch", instead of just the button itself

Yes, we will have a new combo system, but nothing is set in stone so we don't know yet 100% how it will be, so what if it will involve pressing M2 ?

On 2019-09-22 at 9:51 AM, 000l000 said:

Perhaps you did have fun blocking shots in the air but it's pretty much pointless now that we have directional slam attack. Why they hell would i hang stupidly in the air while enemies are shooting at me when i can jump at them in a second now ? Aim gliding is still a thing but tbh directional slam attack is way faster to reach far places.

Because the moment you ground slam at them you are going to open yourself for the other hundred enemies attacks ?

And yes, might be faster but is also a lot more unreliable when you need accurate jumps, especially when you need to time/coordinate yourself to avoid something like a triplaser.

On 2019-09-22 at 9:51 AM, 000l000 said:

Lots of people are complaining about this features but i still don't see any viable argument except from a few bugs and tweaks here and there such as gunblades and a few mods to be reworked.

We are actually providing you plenty of arguments.

Sorry if I say this but the only one not providing a viable argument against a glide-parry is you, since all you say is "directional ground slam" everytime, which while being a nice thing doesen't solve the issue or make the glide-parry less effective.

On 2019-09-25 at 8:15 AM, 000l000 said:

No offense but what you said still doesn't make melee gliding more relevant. Perhaps you find glinding with a gun "clunky" for your own reasons but as i already said, melee 2.9 did introduce directional melee slam, it's easier and faster to travel this way, especially with a melee weapon.

He actually does, and again, all you have to say is "directional ground slam", which again, doesen't make glide-guarding less relevant just because "is faster".

On 2019-09-25 at 8:15 AM, 000l000 said:

So if you prefer to complain instead of actually using what DE implements to improve their game, that's none of our concerns.

Ok, this is where you lose me, basically what you are saying is "Well DE made it, so stop giving feedback because nobody (aka, me) cares"

Not sure if this was intentional on your part but this comment shows you a toxic fanboy who doesen't want people to enjoy the game in a different way than his own, and if that's your stance... why should we listen to you then ?

On 2019-09-25 at 8:15 AM, 000l000 said:

Why the hell would you want to melee glide in the first place, seriously ? That was the stupidest thing to do, taking shots freely without being able to retaliate. I don't think that's the pinnacle of fun for any brawler fan, and i don't think that your so-called "many" people (a few guys and quite often the same tbh) would change anything at that cause melee gliding didn't make any sense in the first place.

And here you prove my previous point even further, all I read is a "Is stupid, is not fun, melee gliding bad" ramble. You don't like melee gliding ? Ok, cool, nobody is forcing you to use it, but don't be a prick at others who would want such a feature because, and here is the interesting part, you could ground slam and aim glide with a gun even before the glide-parry was removed from the game, so in the case DE would bring it back, nothing would change for you... unless you really don't want people to enjoy the game in a different manner than you do.

On 2019-09-25 at 8:15 AM, 000l000 said:

Shoot them with a gun or go melee instantly, that makes sense.

Or give them all a middlefinger parrying all the S#&$ they trow at you, that makes as much sense, is just different... but apparently is not something you like so it must be bad because of that 😛