Changes I would personally like to see to excalibur

[devidedkong_pow]

Prologue: 

I love the IDEA of Excalibur. When I was still new to the game just getting through the star chart. I realized I reallllly liked melee. Soo I looked through the frames and decided Excalibur is pretty cool and should fit that kind of play-style. I even went through the pain staking trouble of farming him from the Ambulas which was mildly difficult for my newbish self. The reality though when I actually started to play him is I just didn't find him fun and found that there were other warframes better suited for it. Rhino and Inaros are tankier and easier to get. Valkyr is tankier and has her warcry. For being the poster boy of the game having the only exclusive prime warframe, and the first umbra frame I find this just sad. I mean his 4 IS really strong and he does have a lot of utility, but everything he has going for him I feel doesn't suit him, or there are other frames that do it better.

Changes:

First off I feel his passive should apply to heavy blades. I mean it applies to rapiers so I feel it only makes sense it should also apply to something like war. 

Next I actually REALLY like his first ability. I feel it's his only ability besides his 4 that really suits him. However there are a couple tweaks I think it needs. First it definitely needs an up in pace. It's a really slow ability for what it is. Second isn't really a big deal, but it would be nice to see an improvement to the animation. Right now he kinda just slides across the floor towards the enemy which might work for atlas's punch but Excalibur is a swordsman. According to the wiki his 1 is affected by melee mods which is perfect. Anything other than that I would like to hear second opinions on. Like maybe not using exalted blade for it so it could just be a amplified melee and it could crit and status. 

his second ability is just... it's cc and it's nice, but it honestly just feels like unless your using it for a reason like finisher based challenges(like nightwave or rivens) it's just faster to kill the enemy with your 4. He doesn't have Inaros's passive soo it's not like he can heal off it. Honestly I feel this would be the perfect place in his kit to give him some survivablity. something he kind of lacks in higher level missions. A way to heal, damage reduction anything. The specifics aren't really important and I'm sure someone will suggest something bellow, but DE can easily come up with something good. 

The third ability is even more lame than the second. It's a aoe damage that may have decent base numbers but It will still only ever actually do anything in lower level missions. 75 energy for a liiiiittle bit of damage? All when he once again could press 4 and deal ten times more? Honestly I really DON'T know what to replace it with, but more than any other I feel this one needs to be changed. Honestly something that actually you know plays into him being a swordsmen would actually be cool. Like an attack speed buff or something. One of the things I hate most about eternal war is that this would be PERFECT for Excalibur on his third ability, but alas I doubt they would ever just swap abilities and augments around like that. 

Finally his fourth ability, his exalted blade. You would think by the way I have been mentioning this ability I was completely fine with it, but that couldn't be even further from the truth. It just feels like an inferior desert winds. My suggestion on changes and what would make it better can go one of two ways. AOE focus or Single target focus. One of the reasons I feel his exalted blade is inferior is the AOE of desert wind is faster and larger which is NICE. It feels really good in the kind of game that warframe has become. While Excalibur's exalted blade has a tiny slow moving projectile. So if they want him to still have range on it. That's what I feel needs some work. The AOE needs to actually even remotely compare to Barruk's desert wind. However I personally feel he should take a completely different approach soo as not to have the two step on each others toes and give Excalibur a more defined role. One thing that exalted blades DOES have going for it that desert wind does not. It actually has a combo counter. However BECAUSE the stupid slow moving projectile is there you might not have known this(you probably did though) because the projectile does not actually count towards the combo counter. Soo what I recommend is instead take the projectile away all together and instead when his 4 is activated either lower or remove the cost of his first ability soo that Excalibur can turn into this amazing high damage, high speed, single target machine. I feel like this would SIGNIFICANTLY make him actually feel like a gosh darned swordsman. Cause right now. You press 4 and do the freaking running man as you throw high damage projectiles at people that fall off in damage as level's start to get higher. THAT'S why I can't stand the current Excalibur. *drops the mic* PEACE OUT (sorry couldn't help it.)

[ExcaliburUmbra]

41 minutes ago, devidedkong_pow said:

One thing that exalted blades DOES have going for it that desert wind does not. It actually has a combo counter. 

Desert Wind does have a combo counter, you need to hit enemies with his actual fists for it to count though.

As for your suggestions:

1. Passive change would be great. Always irked me that the “sword master” hasn’t mastered heavy blades.
2. I agree, the homing version of Slash Dash moves pretty slowly, and looks kinda awkward. Would love to see it sped up a bit, with some cleaner visual effects.
3. Radial Blind shouldn’t be changed much imo, it gives Excalibur on-demand Crowd Control while boosting his melee damage due to the stealth damage multiplier and access to finishers. It’s his most versatile ability at the moment.
4. I’d love to see changes to Radial Javelin for sure, preferably to make it synergize with his kit more and giving it functionality other then just damage. Sure it has that stagger effect but Radial Blind is far better for that purpose.
5. Exalted Blade does feel more like “Exalted Energy Wave Turret” then I’d like, but I’m not sure about removing the energy waves entirely. Maybe making an augment that removes the waves, but greatly boosts the damage and reduces the cost of Slash Dash when active would be a more inclusive solution.

Edited October 17, 2019 by ExcaliburUmbra
Bullets to numbers.

[kapn655321]

43 minutes ago, devidedkong_pow said:

He doesn't have Inaros's passive soo it's not like he can heal off it

Potentially with a Zaw and the arcane for health on finisher..
Though you're not wrong. To say a frame is perfectly fine because they require one specific weapon wouldn't be right.

 

43 minutes ago, devidedkong_pow said:

The third ability is even more lame than the second

Amen. Not worth the excessive energy it costs.
...I know someone's gonna say I'm using it wrong, and there's every chance that's possible.

I feel like the Radial Blind he does with his Ult + slide attack,
ought to be some form of the Javs instead of a crap range full price blind.

They could give him back his old school super jump.. since open world exists,
and very few people build him for his max duration feature.

But, this is my thought on the javs..
First, REDUCE the cost! Holy Crap, please.
Second, Hold to target like ASH's Ult. Multiple stacks can be applied to the same target.
Each successive stack costs X more and deals X more damage.
This can be used while Ult is active, and it's cost is further reduced after casting blind.

Similar in ways to the best modern features on ash without stealing his game or style.
 

Edited October 17, 2019 by kapn655321

[kapn655321]

Also thinking.. What if his Javs (or in my example, multiple stacks of javs)
could pin enemies like Nezha's ult?
Could be much shorter time, and almost certainly shorter distance..
couldn't jam up a whole room like Nezha's ult, and would be far to expensive and time consuming in my example to have the same effect..

Maybe pinned enemies give 10 energy when killed.
Could make him an energy gen for the party, or more sustainable set up for himself.
Maybe give enemies affected by Jav 15% reduced armor for a few seconds, affected by power strength.

[Loza03]

51 minutes ago, devidedkong_pow said:

First off I feel his passive should apply to heavy blades. I mean it applies to rapiers so I feel it only makes sense it should also apply to something like war. 

Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, sure, heavy blades include some axes (like Scindo) but... most of them are swords.

51 minutes ago, devidedkong_pow said:

Next I actually REALLY like his first ability. I feel it's his only ability besides his 4 that really suits him. However there are a couple tweaks I think it needs. First it definitely needs an up in pace. It's a really slow ability for what it is. Second isn't really a big deal, but it would be nice to see an improvement to the animation. Right now he kinda just slides across the floor towards the enemy which might work for atlas's punch but Excalibur is a swordsman. According to the wiki his 1 is affected by melee mods which is perfect. Anything other than that I would like to hear second opinions on. Like maybe not using exalted blade for it so it could just be a amplified melee and it could crit and status. 

Increasing the speed of movement and/or removing the stop for the slash might help. I kind of like the glide TBH (plus that much already shows up in the Sacrifice's opening)

1 hour ago, devidedkong_pow said:

his second ability is just... it's cc and it's nice, but it honestly just feels like unless your using it for a reason like finisher based challenges(like nightwave or rivens) it's just faster to kill the enemy with your 4. He doesn't have Inaros's passive soo it's not like he can heal off it. Honestly I feel this would be the perfect place in his kit to give him some survivablity. something he kind of lacks in higher level missions. A way to heal, damage reduction anything. The specifics aren't really important and I'm sure someone will suggest something bellow, but DE can easily come up with something good. 

His 2 at present is a reference to some versions of the Arthurian mythos where, upon drawing the sword in the stone, it flashed with (optionally holy) light, blinding those around Arthur that wished to kill him and claim the throne.

Still, the Scabbard of Excalibur was also said to grant resistance to Injury, so it's not entirely out of the question. Umbra keeping his Howl would be required IMO though - it's iconic to him specifically. Although the abilities are considered distinct, so changing base Excal and leaving Umbra could work.

1 hour ago, devidedkong_pow said:

The third ability is even more lame than the second. It's a aoe damage that may have decent base numbers but It will still only ever actually do anything in lower level missions. 75 energy for a liiiiittle bit of damage? All when he once again could press 4 and deal ten times more? Honestly I really DON'T know what to replace it with, but more than any other I feel this one needs to be changed. Honestly something that actually you know plays into him being a swordsmen would actually be cool. Like an attack speed buff or something. One of the things I hate most about eternal war is that this would be PERFECT for Excalibur on his third ability, but alas I doubt they would ever just swap abilities and augments around like that. 

I wouldn't want to remove the Javelin aspect of it - it's as iconic to his kit as his 4, featuring prominently in early promotional material. But changing up how it works would be nice.

Spoilers for DMC5

Spoiler

I could see them working well as something similar to Dante's take on the summoned swords.

In DMC5, Dante eventually gets access to summoned swords of his own in Devil Trigger or via his Devil Sword Dante.  They react to Dante's current style (here, being Swordmaster) and have different effects. In Swordmaster, they buff his melee attacks by mirroring his swings or adding extra hitboxes (such as a rotating effect when charging up Dante's Shorukyen type move stunning enemies in place). In Gunslinger, they automatically fire off at nearby enemies, stunning them. In Royal Guard they shield him from incoming damage passively, effectively damage reduction. And in Trickster, they effectively increase the amount of Mobility Dante has. 

This could work very well for the Jack-of-all-trades Excalibur. Perhaps something similar to Quiver/Minelayer - switching between four smaller abilities?

 

1 hour ago, devidedkong_pow said:

Finally his fourth ability, his exalted blade. You would think by the way I have been mentioning this ability I was completely fine with it, but that couldn't be even further from the truth. It just feels like an inferior desert winds. My suggestion on changes and what would make it better can go one of two ways. AOE focus or Single target focus. One of the reasons I feel his exalted blade is inferior is the AOE of desert wind is faster and larger which is NICE. It feels really good in the kind of game that warframe has become. While Excalibur's exalted blade has a tiny slow moving projectile. So if they want him to still have range on it. That's what I feel needs some work. The AOE needs to actually even remotely compare to Barruk's desert wind. However I personally feel he should take a completely different approach soo as not to have the two step on each others toes and give Excalibur a more defined role. One thing that exalted blades DOES have going for it that desert wind does not. It actually has a combo counter. However BECAUSE the stupid slow moving projectile is there you might not have known this(you probably did though) because the projectile does not actually count towards the combo counter. Soo what I recommend is instead take the projectile away all together and instead when his 4 is activated either lower or remove the cost of his first ability soo that Excalibur can turn into this amazing high damage, high speed, single target machine. I feel like this would SIGNIFICANTLY make him actually feel like a gosh darned swordsman. Cause right now. You press 4 and do the freaking running man as you throw high damage projectiles at people that fall off in damage as level's start to get higher. THAT'S why I can't stand the current Excalibur. *drops the mic* PEACE OUT (sorry couldn't help it.)

Numerically it's technically better than Desert Wind but I absolutely see and agree with your point.

Only thing I would change is giving it a charge attack that fires out a wave. A good old sword beam.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

I’m sorry you lost me at saying Serene Storm is better than exalted blade. It’s just not. It’s damage output is just a joke when compared to Exalted Blade. Yes a decently strong build can get it to perform at low-mid levels but falls off far sooner than any of the other exalted melees.

[Gurpgork]

4 hours ago, devidedkong_pow said:

his second ability is just... it's cc and it's nice, but it honestly just feels like unless your using it for a reason like finisher based challenges(like nightwave or rivens) it's just faster to kill the enemy with your 4.

Blind boosts the damage of the regular wave attacks pretty substantially. It's really the best damage boost that a melee frame could have. 

Also, CC in a lot of cases is one of the best survivability things you can have. Nothing increases the amount of time that you can survive a bunch of enemies faster than reducing their damage output to zero. 

If he should have a survivability skill (although I don't think he should, because that's more Baruuk's thing), then replace Javelin. 

4 hours ago, devidedkong_pow said:

It just feels like an inferior desert winds.

That's a hot take I wasn't prepared for today. 

Like I get some of your points, but even though some things are better about DW, EB is just so much more practical, and under most circumstances will do more damage thanks to its incredibly good augment. It attacks much faster than DW, it can easily get 100% status, and it uses energy instead of a resource you have to actively farm for. 

And honestly, considering the hoops that Baruuk has to jump through to use his ult, it really should be better than EB, and it's only better than EB if you already have a lot of different status effects on an enemy. Like there's some things you can do that make DW do absolutely preposterous amounts of damage in a pretty huge area, but you have to bring like a Zakti and a sentinel with an Artax/Cryota, whereas Excal just has to press 2 and then E. 

[devidedkong_pow]

Hmmmm I definitely expected some of the disagreement, but honestly I figured I would get a bit more interest in what I was going for. I wouldn't say that DW is BETTER per say, but I feel it fits the game a whole heck of a lot more due to the speed and massive aoe of it, and more importantly it's a 1000 time more satisfying to use in my opinion. That at least was my point. I can't stand Excal's current 4 because of the stupid and boring gameplay it promotes. Yes it does more damage but unlike DW it's feels a whole heck of a lot more underwhelming. The way the projectiles are slower than me, the way you just stand in place turning into a silly looking sentry turrent. I honestly truly feel Excal would go from what I feel is one of the most boring warframes I have to one of my most used if his kit actually made him an active swordsman instead of well. A boring turrent. To be honest I never really EXPECTED anyone to completely agreed about his 2, and 3. I just don't care for the blind because I personally find finishers boring, and slow. However I did not expect as much defense for his javelins as it got. I can understand it being iconic, but is that realllly a reason to keep them? I how the do they really fit his kit? I'm not honestly going to fight for it gone, but it would take a lot of work to make it an interesting ability that fits him if you ask me.

[NekroArts]

1 hour ago, devidedkong_pow said:

To be honest I never really EXPECTED anyone to completely agreed about his 2, and 3. I just don't care for the blind because I personally find finishers boring, and slow.

You're completely one-sided about his 2, you make it sound as if doing finishers is mandatory whenever you cast his 2. That's normal if the assumption is about going pure melee on them and we had given suggestion to add a dedicated keybind to finishers moves. If not, you have other ways to deal damage/kill. As a whole the ability itself is a hard cc that stops enemies in their tracks allowing players to make a safe run-for-it or take safe shots at them.

Edited October 18, 2019 by NekroArts

[She11by]

How to improve Excalibur:

• Survivability skill instead of Javelin
• Option to not use finishers in melee range ( so Exc can not be afraid to use 2nd skill as well as knockdowns )
• Fix the bug that stops damage bonus from Radial blind after the blast or any knockdown ( for example from Slash Dash )
• Ask Umbra not to turn off Exalted blade after the transference
• And pls don't break Life strike after the melee update for exalted weapons

This way it will be soo much better.

Edited October 18, 2019 by She11by

[devidedkong_pow]

On 2019-10-18 at 3:00 PM, She11by said:

Option to not use finishers in melee range ( so Exc can not be afraid to use 2nd skill as well as knockdowns )

technically they could just make finishers suck less, but yes that would be nice.