wf energy HAS to change

[WoodedSkate89]

Double Post

Edited October 29, 2019 by WoodedSkate89
Double Post

[---Occam---]

People who complain about energy needing a nerf are usually those most afraid of endurance runs past 30 minutes. I advise you try staying in Mot for a good hour or two and then tell me that the energy system needs a nerf.

[bibmobello]

35 minutes ago, --Cerpheseus-- said:

People who complain about energy needing a nerf are usually those most afraid of endurance runs past 30 minutes. I advise you try staying in Mot for a good hour or two and then tell me that the energy system needs a nerf.

if you rely on energy pads, simply you will not be able to run for 2 hours but just 1 hour.

[Prowombat]

I dont understand how this is even an issue its a PVE game who cares if someone has unlimited energy its not effecting anyone. I have played games before were its PVP and one bad decision from a dev one broken item and tons of people lose their stuff, but in this game it simply doesnt matter do you really care if xxnoscoper360 has unlimited energy and spams his abilitys to destroy some grineer???

[bibmobello]

3 minutes ago, Prowombat said:

I dont understand how this is even an issue its a PVE game who cares if someone has unlimited energy its not effecting anyone. I have played games before were its PVP and one bad decision from a dev one broken item and tons of people lose their stuff, but in this game it simply doesnt matter do you really care if xxnoscoper360 has unlimited energy and spams his abilitys to destroy some grineer???

I don't understand why you can die during single player games. it's just stupid, you should just kill everything without taking any damage because it's really frustrating!

[RX-3DR]

5 hours ago, --Cerpheseus-- said:

People who complain about energy needing a nerf are usually those most afraid of endurance runs past 30 minutes. I advise you try staying in Mot for a good hour or two and then tell me that the energy system needs a nerf.

It's just incredibly boring to play a game where enemies can't shoot back. If anything, I would say people who are terrified at the idea of not being able to spam abilities are afraid that they might actually have to play a real game where enemies fight back as opposed to Ragdoll Shooting Gallery 2019.

I've done a good share of 30+ minute Arbitrations and it boggles the mind (actually, it doesn't, it's all about "winning") how people can stand in the same mission for more than 20 minutes with 90% of enemies ragdolling from a single Strangledome. The system needs a nerf so that getting to 20 minutes on Mot actually takes more effort than it takes getting from 30 minutes to an hour currently.

Edited October 29, 2019 by RX-3DR

[mraz641]

10 hours ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

Sorry it wasnt in the opening post, and I didnt read the other 4 pages 

well we are leading a serious discussion here and if people want to get in on this post they should read everything then start speaking, because we are only going in circles  like this

[WoodedSkate89]

1 hour ago, mraz641 said:

well we are leading a serious discussion here and if people want to get in on this post they should read everything then start speaking, because we are only going in circles  like this

Dont expect people to read 5 pages of arguments just to comment.

Opening post is 2 lines long, so there will be questions/queries 

[WoodedSkate89]

6 hours ago, RX-3DR said:

It's just incredibly boring to play a game where enemies can't shoot back. 

Enemies can shoot back, if you dont like it dont use frames that jams enemy guns. (E.g. Mesa or Loki)

6 hours ago, RX-3DR said:

If anything, I would say people who are terrified at the idea of not being able to spam abilities are afraid that they might actually have to play a real game where enemies fight back as opposed to Ragdoll Shooting Gallery 2019.

Some frames are ability based though. Without Altas' landslide he'd be pretty much useless, which is an ability you need to repeatedly use. Other frames abilities, like rhino's iron skin, you can press once then not need to recast for ages.

My point is that certain frames need to consistently use abilities to function and others do not.

6 hours ago, RX-3DR said:

how people can stand in the same mission for more than 20 minutes with 90% of enemies ragdolling from a single Strangledome.

Strangledome is one of those abilities that isnt spammed. It's cast once. A change to energy wouldn't change this.

6 hours ago, RX-3DR said:

The system needs a nerf so that getting to 20 minutes on Mot actually takes more effort than it takes getting from 30 minutes to an hour currently.

I honestly have no problem with difficulty. If a missions easy to the point where its boring, I just don't do it.

 

This next bit is presumption

I assume you're on MOT for argons, but if you have a full nekros squad you should (hopefully) have enough argon crystals by 20 minutes anyway.
And because Nekros isnt a good frame (my opinion) and you are using most of you're energy on his 3, there should be a challenge?

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

11 hours ago, bibmobello said:

if you rely on energy pads, simply you will not be able to run for 2 hours but just 1 hour.

You go through 200 energy pads in 1 hour?  That's just using them horribly and dropping 5 at once whenever you run out of energy or something crazy.  

DE may rework energy in warframe 2 if that ever comes to be.  Here's the big problem that no one seems to grasp with reworking energy in warframe.  That doesn't bring in more people, it's a lot of work because of all the frames and abilities you have to tweak, and people will leave if you rework energy even if you made a 'perfect' system simply because you cannot please 100% of your playerbase.  How is any of that making sense from a business perspective.  Just look at melee 3.0.  They've spent a great deal of time on that and people will leave over the final changes, and no one who doesn't play the game will notice the melee rework and go "oh they did something new with melee weapons, maybe I should go play warframe and spend money on it."  

[(PSN)CodyXSavageX]

I never used pads even before focus 2.0

though I prefer zenurik since leeches counter it and energize works but is rng 

pads felt way too tryhard imo and there is a difference of gameplay in pre focus 2.0 and now when energy was more scarce but I wouldn’t want to go back to it the way I play revolves around how I manage resources including my energy 

I don’t even have energize yet

[Otobai]

Op is right but no one will ever agree with him because the game is too hard for your average redditor. 

[Rakosta_Kai]

38 minutes ago, RadonRadish said:

Op is right but no one will ever agree with him because the game is too hard for your average redditor. 

More options is almost always better than fewer options.

When differing tastes and preferences exist, more options should always win out.

The problem with threads like this is that neither side is entirely wrong... But everyone relies on false arguments and insults in the hopes DE falls for their vision instead.

Simple facts:

• There should be mechanics in place that keep inconsiderate/overzealous players in check in groups.
• There should be measures and mechanics in place that appropriately challenge and reward setups of any kind encouraging skillful gameplay into being the ultimate modifier. 
• Players should be able to have choices in regard to how they regenerate energy especially given the number of ways it can potentially be lost in a mission.

The problem remains that few bother to support or advocate ideas that address these issues without also presenting some ulterior motive that favors them and is punitive to some other group.

The fact that no one can agree on anything is, ultimately, why nothing gets addressed imo.

Everyone thinks nerfs and/or buffs are the answer when this game is proof positive that such tactics resolve very little long term because of modding.

What we have in Waframe is equivalent to a beautifully baked cake with no eggs...

It's looks sorta like a cake...

It definitely tastes kinda like a cake...

But you can't help but notice that something is missing in relation to other cakes.

 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

22 hours ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

And it was changed, years ago. It was unhealthy for the game and changed how people played. It changed what builds are viable.

 

The example you use is in fact condemnation of the idea you are trying to support.

You can remove energy pads from your game yourself by not equipping them. I like mine. Leave them alone.

12 hours ago, bibmobello said:

I don't understand why you can die during single player games. it's just stupid, you should just kill everything without taking any damage because it's really frustrating!

>use nidus

>use all 3 umbral mods at max rank

>use arcane guardian

>use over 200 whatever power strength

>use adaptation

>use parasitic link

 

Go on forums and complain about being too tanky.

[(PSN)Silenceform]

There are different ways to get energy in Warframe but each of them require you to achieve some kind of trade off: with energy pads you have to spend ressources, with arcane energize you have to be lucky, with rage you need to get hit or with a mod called " Sharpshooter " you have to be accurate and so on.

Trinity's Energy Vampire is the most reliable way of getting energy by far but you or another player in your squad have to play this warframe constantly in order to acces to near infinite energy resupply.

This ability is a no brainer: you find a enemy, you spam the ability, you get energy from a aoe. I want this ability changed: i want players to work on a little bit more in order to gain energy; this is a nerf in energy obtaining but a buff in utility, i'll explain how i want to change Energy Vampire:

Instead of targeting a enemy to get energy back after each tick of the ability. Trinity will cast a time limited buff on herself that makes her able to leech a small percentage of energy when doing damage with weapons to the enemies. Trinity need to target allies who are willing to get the buff.

While i'm proposing a rework on her Energy Vampire, i want for her 1 (Well of Life) to work the same way: a time limited life leech buff for weapons. DE might have to change the name of the ability if they accept my suggestion.

Maybe i said maybe we can have a mod variant of my new Energy Vampire ability as a warframe mod but less effective.

Any thoughts ?

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Silenceform said:

Maybe i said maybe we can have a mod variant of my new Energy Vampire ability as a warframe mod but less effective.

Any thoughts ?

Yes. This idea is basically Thurible.

 

[el_chanis]

On 2019-10-25 at 7:29 AM, mraz641 said:

spamming pizzas and having infinite energy is basicly cheating. if warframe energy is rechargable like operator energy then saryn couldn't spam that fast her abilities and power creep overall would lessen in the game.

This has been addressed countless times, and disregarded the exact same way all the time: ignoring it. DE keeps bringing it up in devstreams, but the issue has never been dealt with properly.

First of all: Remember when Zenurik was used twice as much as naramon, and naramon 3 times the other schools combined?, That means Zenurik was 6 times more used than the other 3 (pro math). Well... now it just 3 or 4 times the other 4 combined. The focus 2.0 made a system of 2 viable schools into 1. Zenurik went from 4 energy/s for you only, to 5 energy/s for all your team (keeping the extra energy from orbs because why not?). Then released a better rage mod (aka, hunter's adrenaline), and then made arcane energize far easier to get. All this while pizzas and Trinity remained the exact same.

The problem with the game is that is building on a very fragile groundbase. The armor scaling, the mandatory mods, and the way mods in general scale (% based instead of flat, and in some cases, infinitely, like combo counter) means that anything that could get out of control, will. Energy is just the thing you noticed. Don't know if you noticed, but aside from Hyldrin and Trinity (and maybe volt/mag), Shields are utterly useless. They are only needed for hijack, ONLY. No frame aside from the ones i mentioned will loose EHP if shields are gone entirely, Chroma will loose only because it uses it to, ironicaly, increase his armor.

The game needs a huge overhaul on many of the base systems that use to gauge difficulty. The fact that sortie level bosses are killed in less than 2 seconds (minus invulnerability phases) should be a good indicator that sht has hit the fan long ago, we are swiming in a sea of sht, and the fan is the motor of the boat. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by el_chanis

[(PSN)Silenceform]

il y a une heure, Padre_Akais a dit :

Yes. This idea is basically Thurible.

 

Not at all. What Thurible do :

It give energy on kill in a aoe based on the energy Harrow spent channeling the ability previously.

What my reworked Energy Vampire do :

It give a time limited personnal buff that leech energy from enemies based on weapon damage.  For example : you shoot one bullet of your rifle to the enemy that deal 5000 damage, the buff will give you 100 energy over 10 seconds.

[mraz641]

43 minutes ago, el_chanis said:

This has been addressed countless times, and disregarded the exact same way all the time: ignoring it. DE keeps bringing it up in devstreams, but the issue has never been dealt with properly.

First of all: Remember when Zenurik was used twice as much as naramon, and naramon 3 times the other schools combined?, That means Zenurik was 6 times more used than the other 3 (pro math). Well... now it just 3 or 4 times the other 4 combined. The focus 2.0 made a system of 2 viable schools into 1. Zenurik went from 4 energy/s for you only, to 5 energy/s for all your team (keeping the extra energy from orbs because why not?). Then released a better rage mod (aka, hunter's adrenaline), and then made arcane energize far easier to get. All this while pizzas and Trinity remained the exact same.

The problem with the game is that is building on a very fragile groundbase. The armor scaling, the mandatory mods, and the way mods in general scale (% based instead of flat, and in some cases, infinitely, like combo counter) means that anything that could get out of control, will. Energy is just the thing you noticed. Don't know if you noticed, but aside from Hyldrin and Trinity (and maybe volt/mag), Shields are utterly useless. They are only needed for hijack, ONLY. No frame aside from the ones i mentioned will loose EHP if shields are gone entirely, Chroma will loose only because it uses it to, ironicaly, increase his armor.

The game needs a huge overhaul on many of the base systems that use to gauge difficulty. The fact that sortie level bosses are killed in less than 2 seconds (minus invulnerability phases) should be a good indicator that sht has hit the fan long ago, we are swiming in a sea of sht, and the fan is the motor of the boat. 

Thank you for your insight, i know a lot has to change in warframe to make it top notch, these kinds of things were being perfected since last century, and warframe isnt implementing them, but if i were to say all the things that you said in my first post, then every toxic forum poster will use the oportunity to tell me to leave the game, that i cry a lot and similiar things. But we need to talk out every topic. This is just a game, but its a game each and every one of us love and we should all bring to the table our thoughts and try to make what we play even better. shields really should be reworked, and % bonus is asking to be broken, and it often is, by the very same warframe partners(kghm shy), and they brake it with every update. but if someone writes about this on forum then everyone will jump and punch you to death for having a valid opinion. I saw couple of comments where people linked a pic from my profile saying how the f* can i complain, im a mr17 guy. so everyone who doesnt have mr 22+ just cant complain. But that simply isnt true, i have my account from 2014, if you want i can link the pic here, but i dont think that is necessery. i dont believe that going to hydron to grind different weapons and get higher mr is content. If you think that that is content(to the guy who posted my profile pic) and you cant change anything with the game(to the same guy) then you and i have nothing to talk about. 

All others who say just dont use pizza or spam abilities, i ask you to read the whole thread, like couple of smart people said, if i go in with a spammer team then i can just afk, and they are 1/2 afk aswell, but i dont play this game to be afk i came asking for a challenge, and going solo isnt a challenge nor is it fun like going with a team and chatting and all. 

lastly, lot of people say: you just said something needs rework, but you didnt say how, so stfu(or something similiar). well you see i type only when i feel there is a need for it. I wanted to see other people opinions and to create with them something that can really shape warframe energy the way players want it. if i give my opinion then there is only positive or negative reply, this way everyone can share their opinion. I dont understand why people always jump to fight you no matter what you write. If i see something on forums that i dont like i just ignore it, if its about an interesting topic where i have opinion of my own that is in disaggreement with the op, i respectfully write what i dislike. But i quess people are just tired and angry irl and use forums to vent

[Rakosta_Kai]

49 minutes ago, (PS4)Silenceform said:

Not at all. What Thurible do :

It give energy on kill in a aoe based on the energy Harrow spent channeling the ability previously.

What my reworked Energy Vampire do :

It give a time limited personnal buff that leech energy from enemies based on weapon damage.  For example : you shoot one bullet of your rifle to the enemy that deal 5000 damage, the buff will give you 100 energy over 10 seconds.

It's the same thing...only crappier.

No offense.

 

[(PSN)Silenceform]

il y a 12 minutes, Padre_Akais a dit :

It's the same thing...only crappier.

No offense.

 

Well at least with my suggestion i don't need to follow Harrow when he uses his Thurible to get energy, i can get my buff and have a complete freedom of movement.

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Silenceform said:

Well at least with my suggestion i don't need to follow Harrow when he uses his Thurible to get energy, i can get my buff and have a complete freedom of movement.

I'll be honest and say that if you think the idea is so nifty you should post a seperate thread.