Conclave Rewards

[Mr.Caster]

How about making conclave a bit more rewarding based for player, since mostly we getting some of skins for weapons and stuff, how about adding some additional good rewards for conclave which can be based on dax warframe skins, rivens, endo and kuva, i have tried playing conclave its kinda loner their when no one play except you, me trying to create it more reward full by giving away prime stuffs to my challengers and more interesting stuff just to make conclave abit useful.

Also making some events for exclusive rewards based just keeping updates on pvp and stuff can be usefull and maybe more of people will participate in.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Cyanide-69

[Redeye]

Even though I do not mind exclusive skins and things like that being in conclave, even more if they fit the theme, added to the fact that it would be nice for conclave players to have a means to get some PvE rewards such as rivens, kuvas or endo, I would rather not be forced to play a game mode I do not want to play for an event, as they're quite a rare occurence. 

It's just my personal opinion of course, but I didn't quite have a blast during the valentines one.

 

Edit for clarification:

Before anyone answers that I should just not play it if I don't want to, the fact events are kinda rare is the important part of my point. Instead of having a change of pace with my alliance and doing something different for once, it would be like "Welp, it's conclave. Back to doing nothing".

Edited November 8, 2019 by Redeye

[Mr.Caster]

It's not about force to play mode its about making it more rewarding for players who play and this can pick an more interest just like participating in, just to make it more challenging and attractive to people, the more people play PvE the more fun and challenging it could be.

 

[Jiminez_Burial]

1 hour ago, Cyanide-69 said:

i have tried playing conclave its kinda loner their when no one play except you, me trying to create it more reward full by giving away prime stuffs to my challengers and more interesting stuff just to make conclave abit useful.

The rewards are not why people don't play Conclave, it's because they didn't boot up Warframe to play PvP.  Even when Conclave offered semi-practical rewards (skins that could be applied to Vandal/Wraiths before they could be re-coloured by default) it's likely the same number of people actually played Conclave then as do now.  People just took advantage of the low population in Conclave and certain region servers to boost towards the rewards while not actually playing Conclave.  I honestly just think Conclave needs to be left in the dust and only updated when things actually break.  The people who play Conclave now will continue to play it, DE doesn't have to waste their time making content that the vast majority of people want nothing to do with, and if DE make an official statement about it then we'd stop seeing these posts on the forums... that is if people bother to utilise basic search functions.

[Kontrollo]

This has been suggested countless times already, but yes, it's worth repeating.

And by the way, they don't even have to create event exclusive rewards. Bringing back events just for the sake of them, rewarding basic things like Formas and Potatoes would already help.

[Tyreaus]

12 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

Bringing back events just for the sake of them

I agree with this, and also kind of agree with what Jiminez_Burial above says. It's hard to justify putting a ton of developer time into a game mode like Conclave when it's not the main draw. At the same token, event stuff for Conclave already exists: what's the worst that could happen by throwing that out there once in a while, even automatically (i.e. servers just turn the event on based on server date + time)? Maybe it gets more popular, probably nothing changes, but it's hard to see the state of affairs getting particularly worse just by revisiting old events.

[Kontrollo]

5 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

I agree with this, and also kind of agree with what Jiminez_Burial above says. It's hard to justify putting a ton of developer time into a game mode like Conclave when it's not the main draw. At the same token, event stuff for Conclave already exists: what's the worst that could happen by throwing that out there once in a while, even automatically (i.e. servers just turn the event on based on server date + time)? Maybe it gets more popular, probably nothing changes, but it's hard to see the state of affairs getting particularly worse just by revisiting old events.

But that's just the thing: they have never put a ton of developer time into it in the first place. Most of it simply piggybacks on the PvE assets or are shared (e.g. Index map), and if they'd look into this subforum just once a month they'd know what things they'd have to address to improve -- and it's not a lot.

Well, at least before the latest iteration of melee it wasn't.

[Tanayy]

I hope they do revive Conclave someday.. I believe it has potential to be fun, which it isn't really at the moment.

[ByroSphere]

On 2019-11-08 at 6:26 AM, Jiminez_Burial said:

The rewards are not why people don't play Conclave, it's because they didn't boot up Warframe to play PvP.  Even when Conclave offered semi-practical rewards (skins that could be applied to Vandal/Wraiths before they could be re-coloured by default) it's likely the same number of people actually played Conclave then as do now.  People just took advantage of the low population in Conclave and certain region servers to boost towards the rewards while not actually playing Conclave.  I honestly just think Conclave needs to be left in the dust and only updated when things actually break.  The people who play Conclave now will continue to play it, DE doesn't have to waste their time making content that the vast majority of people want nothing to do with, and if DE make an official statement about it then we'd stop seeing these posts on the forums... that is if people bother to utilise basic search functions.

You say that people "took advantage" just to get the rewards, but why did they explicitly take advantage of the conclave, when it's neither the only source for said rewards, but also supposedly  not worth playing?

 

 

Warframe is first foremost a lootershooter, people may play pvp or pve, but the main element of enticement is the loot. While the conclave, for as fun it sometimes can be, simply does not offer enough rewards to make it relevant to the rest of the game. The fact that there is still players going into conclave, both casually as well daily, even when it's neglected as badly as nowadays, is only proof that it is worth improving.

 

 

In either case, this whole "dont want to be forced to play" mentality is just complete bs, because we all know that not even you would invest in stuff like Fortuna more than once, if it was not because their rewards mattered to your gameplay.

[Jiminez_Burial]

2 hours ago, ByroSphere said:

when it's neither the only source for said rewards

Skins?  Where else can you get those skins?  As I specifically stated there was a period of time where the only way to re-colour special variant weapons was to have those conclave skins.  Even then people didn't want to actually play Conclave and resorted to boosting in the barren server regions.  Warframe is primarily a PvE Looter Shooter and I doubt anyone has ever starting playing Warframe because they heard it had Conclave.

[ByroSphere]

Was certain I saw the Wraith/Vandal weapon skins in Baro's shop, but I guess I mistook them for something else.

 

With that said my point still stands. More players did come when the conclave offered exclusive skins, but that still is hardly anything compared to the dozens of relics, nitian, riven mods and potatoes you  can get elsewhere. 

Warframe being primarily a PvE game is no excuse for it's PvP mode being irrelevant to the rest of the game, because it's still part of the game, and takes effort and time to invest in like everything else within in. So the Conclave should come with rewards that matter for the game as a whole, and not just skins (although still nice) or mods that only work in pvp.

 

Most player may had not picked Warframe because it had Conclave specifically, but Im willing to bet that the majority of players were willing to try out the Conclave when they first heard about it. The Conclave's problem, is not the fact that it's pvp in a primarily pve game (it's actually fairly balanced in that aspect). The problem is that it's treated as it's "for fun only" in lootershooter game were you have to farm daily for every little thing.

 

I mean, you wouldn't do Spy Missions to farm for relics when Defense and Excavations do it faster and better, right? So why think that the Conclaves lackluster offering list is not the problem when it has to compete with everything else?

 

[MystMan]

9 minutes ago, ByroSphere said:

but Im willing to bet that the majority of players were willing to try out the Conclave when they first heard about it.

You would lose that bet. By the time conclave was added to the game years after launch, WF had already established a core PVE-only player base. That core was never going to try out any pvp the game had to offer. Go look in random people's profiles. Plenty of zeroes in their conclave/lunaro stats.  Had conclave as it is today been there since day 1, it certainly would've gained the needed traction to grow its playerbase into something more, resulting in an actual working matchmaking system. But since it came in so late, the conclave base ended up too small for any matchmaker to properly work, creating that vicious cycle of "...not enough people -> no match found, because not enough people -> no match...." unless you live in specific regions and play during specific hours only to get stomped by pros.

Another counter-effect of this scenario would be that people who came to WF for pve-only would have been turned off by the game seeing it having a large pvp content; many came here specifically to get away from that, something I saw quite a lot of people be very vocal about throughout the years.

 

12 minutes ago, ByroSphere said:

I mean, you wouldn't do Spy Missions to farm for relics when Defense and Excavations do it faster and better, right?

I actually do that. Since forever. I like spy. I can solo tier 3 spy missions faster than the first rotation of endless missions with a 100% guarantee Meso/Neo relic. 
Endless missions do not give me that 100% guarantee since their drop table is diluted with endo and mods. (I'm very glad though that after all these years we finally have a 100% dedicated Axi farming spot in Lua disruption).

 

The problem with Conclave was never its rewards. The game mode just isn't liked by the majority who tried it, and getting into it is more chore, less fun. Back in the day (yes I'm old 😫) we didn't enjoy the old arena games like Quake and Unreal franchises because of rewards, there were none. Their gameplay was 1.simple fun and 2.easy to get into.  Conclave lacks these 2 points for the average gamer of today, no amount of loot can fix that. In a looter-shooter game, the loot is actually the secondary bonus, not the primary.  The primary objective is to have fun foremost; without that people who want the skins will not bother and ignore them or "farm rep" to get them and never play conclave again and we're back to square one. 

That special game mode where everybody had opticor and getting hit once kills you, that mode made sense. Easy to get into and everybody was on equal footing. I don't know why that wasn't permanently put into the game.

The people who play conclave today because they enjoy it: they're it. You're not going to get an explosive player growth. You get to enjoy it at least because it's there.
Trials had the same story, the small % who played it regularly, they were it. That player base was never going to grow because that game mode was so hated. I myself liked it and played it every day. I still miss my daily Trials runs with my clanmates. I didn't care about the arcane rewards at all, playing with them is why I enjoyed it. Rewards (the goal) is not the main reason we play games, it's the fun experience (the journey).

 

[ByroSphere]

3 hours ago, MystMan said:

You would lose that bet. By the time conclave was added to the game years after launch, WF had already established a core PVE-only player base. That core was never going to try out any pvp the game had to offer. Go look in random people's profiles. Plenty of zeroes in their conclave/lunaro stats.  Had conclave as it is today been there since day 1, it certainly would've gained the needed traction to grow its playerbase into something more, resulting in an actual working matchmaking system. But since it came in so late, the conclave base ended up too small for any matchmaker to properly work, creating that vicious cycle of "...not enough people -> no match found, because not enough people -> no match...." unless you live in specific regions and play during specific hours only to get stomped by pros.

Another counter-effect of this scenario would be that people who came to WF for pve-only would have been turned off by the game seeing it having a large pvp content; many came here specifically to get away from that, something I saw quite a lot of people be very vocal about throughout the years.

Plenty on zeroes maybe, but I have found about an even number that have somewhere around 1-3k conclave standing, while some have gotten past a couple ranks beyond neutral. The conclave player base certainly is small enough that region and time matters a lot, but it still big enough that you can find matches regularly with a varying names of players in 1vall at the very least. It's more like Lunaro and Team battles that have really tough luck... But regardless, things really could use an improvement.

Pve only players may not care about pvp content, but I don't see any reason for why that should mean we should just neglect the more pvp friendly players just to please them. There already is plenty of pve exclusive content already, so they are litterally the last people that are in any position to complain about "unfair treatment". Even if you do have a point in that it might not be a good idea in making game changing items Conclave exclusive, that doesn't mean that we should also exclude generally useful items from the conclave altogether.

 

 

3 hours ago, MystMan said:

I actually do that. Since forever. I like spy. I can solo tier 3 spy missions faster than the first rotation of endless missions with a 100% guarantee Meso/Neo relic. 
Endless missions do not give me that 100% guarantee since their drop table is diluted with endo and mods. (I'm very glad though that after all these years we finally have a 100% dedicated Axi farming spot in Lua disruption).

Well, even if you do, the average player wont, yet you still had the benefit of getting a spot that would encourage more players to try that strategy out. The conclave never was given that much consideration, and we are basically just asking to change that. 
 

 

3 hours ago, MystMan said:

The problem with Conclave was never its rewards. The game mode just isn't liked by the majority who tried it, and getting into it is more chore, less fun. Back in the day (yes I'm old 😫) we didn't enjoy the old arena games like Quake and Unreal franchises because of rewards, there were none. Their gameplay was 1.simple fun and 2.easy to get into.  Conclave lacks these 2 points for the average gamer of today, no amount of loot can fix that. In a looter-shooter game, the loot is actually the secondary bonus, not the primary.  The primary objective is to have fun foremost; without that people who want the skins will not bother and ignore them or "farm rep" to get them and never play conclave again and we're back to square one. 

That special game mode where everybody had opticor and getting hit once kills you, that mode made sense. Easy to get into and everybody was on equal footing. I don't know why that wasn't permanently put into the game.

The people who play conclave today because they enjoy it: they're it. You're not going to get an explosive player growth. You get to enjoy it at least because it's there.
Trials had the same story, the small % who played it regularly, they were it. That player base was never going to grow because that game mode was so hated. I myself liked it and played it every day. I still miss my daily Trials runs with my clanmates. I didn't care about the arcane rewards at all, playing with them is why I enjoyed it. Rewards (the goal) is not the main reason we play games, it's the fun experience (the journey).

The lack of rewards may not be the only problem with the conclave, but in a game  that has dozens items and resources to farm everything, it certainly has a big impact to the frequency where the average player plays it... Because even if we say you find conclave decent, you still need to spend a lot of your play time elsewhere on the game to progress anywhere in it, because the conclave is literally cutoff from the rest of the game's progression (which is also part of the journey in what makes a game enjoyable).

Rewards and progression may only be a secondary factor to the "fun part" in what should make a game enjoyable, but do you know the difference between Quake/Unreal and Warframe? Those aforementioned games do not have their pvp be essentially challenged by another game mode that is not only fun in it's own right, but also far more rewarding. Very few players may be hardcore enough to play conclave 24/7 or anything like that, but at least most of the people I meet up in the game are fine with it enough that they'd accept an invite sometime in the week.

Conclave is generally not considered much but a pas time for players whom have done all content/really loves pvp, not because it's so terrible that only a minority enjoys it, but because everything else that is worth doing in warframe literally sucks up all of their playtime. And since Conclave, even when it's fun, isn't so much fun that it blows the PvE out of the water, while it lacks any significant sense of rewards or progression to compete with the rest of the game, it just wont do very well as a whole (and even then, it has shown that it's possible to have a stable number of active players, if the Ps4 version is any indication).


Many more things besides giving the conclave a better gift pool certainly would be needed to be done for it rise it's popularity in a big way, but making it's reward pool more relevant would certainly be a step to the right direction... Why go against that?