Kuva Lich toxicity

[(PSN)whoistimjones]

Everything about these Lich missions breeds toxicity. Right from the beginning you want players to think only about themselves. Whoever gets the last hit on the hatchling is the one and only one who gets the lich.

 

Very first mission I ran with this update some MR8 came in and asked can he get the lich. He then proceeded to run past every single enemy to try to find it(it's an exterminate mission). Irritated by this action, I decided to follow him and make sure he doesn't get it since he wants to just ignore the mission and not help. I proceed to kill the lich. He calls us toxic and leaves the mission. This has happened twice now(people running for the hatchling and doing nothing else).

Afterwards I ask my friend what weapon and lich did he get, he got nothing. That's when I realized why the other guy did what he did. I still didn't (and don't) agree with what he did, but I understand it. This entire thing is a solo experience. Hell, people don't even attack their Lich unless they have the code, which hinders other people in the mission looking for their lich(unlike everyone else, I don't care if he kills me, can't learn if this is right or not unless I attack him and it's way faster than farming murmurs). And no, I won't help with your lich. Helping you kill him gives me nothing.

 

I don't bother to research this game anymore so I don't know if changes are on the way, but things definitely need to change.

The hatchling needs to give everyone a lich.

Helping other people kill their lich needs to reward murmurs(and more than a thrall).

When the Lich spawns, people need to be forced to fight him by the lich pulling them back to them or if people go a certain distance away from the lich he despawns so others have a chance at their lich.

 

There are probably better solutions but the point is this system needs a lot of work.

Edited November 25, 2019 by (PS4)whoistimjones

[Tyreaus]

 

On 2019-11-25 at 5:08 PM, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

The hatchling needs to give everyone a lich.

Definitely not. If I don't want to partake in the system, I don't want someone else to drag me into it. However, I would suggest that Hatchlings are made client-side. This makes it so that every player has a Hatchling of their own they can convert or ignore, independent of what other people are doing. Probably not that easy to do, but I believe regular loot works client-side, so technically doable still.

On 2019-11-25 at 5:08 PM, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

Helping other people kill their lich needs to reward murmurs(and more than a thrall).

This would help a fair bit, just as a general QoL. It used to give murmurs, which was patched out, and seemed to be positive before it was "fixed".

On 2019-11-25 at 5:08 PM, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

When the Lich spawns, people need to be forced to fight him by the lich pulling them back to them or if people go a certain distance away from the lich he despawns so others have a chance at their lich.

ATM, the Lich can be downed thrice and despawns after the third time. It doesn't strictly force players to fight him, but it does encourage those who want their own Liches to spawn to help bump the current guy off the map. Couple that with the murmur rewards and it'd probably fix teamplay issues outright, if I were to be so daring.

[Oreades]

On the plus side there are some more bandaid patches coming down the line for you console players that will make it suck slightly less but don't really get to the core issues with The Old Blood that make it undesirable to interact with. DE seems hellbent to cling to some of those bad choices for whatever reason and we are all just going to need to learn to either live with them or just ignore the content. 

[Oreades]

1 minute ago, Tyreaus said:

This would help a fair bit, just as a general QoL. It used to give murmurs, which was patched out, and seemed to be positive before it was "fixed".

See the problem there is that also breeds toxicity because there are a few really good reasons a player might not want to stab their Lich, adding some sort of Reward for the group on the attempt is just going to cause other people in the group to act like entitled (choose your expletive) because now if the other player doesn't stab their Lich they are "taking something from me". 

Which is why I was both supremely satisfied to see DE finally add a three downs and the Lich gets the message and leaves added with the latest patch and supremely disappointing that they added a Kuva (I believe for the group?) on attempt. At which point.... great we're right back to square 1 with people getting bent out of shape if people don't stab their Lich GG....

[Tyreaus]

10 minutes ago, Oreades said:

See the problem there is that also breeds toxicity because there are a few really good reasons a player might not want to stab their Lich, adding some sort of Reward for the group on the attempt is just going to cause other people in the group to act like entitled (choose your expletive) because now if the other player doesn't stab their Lich they are "taking something from me". 

Which is why I was both supremely satisfied to see DE finally add a three downs and the Lich gets the message and leaves added with the latest patch and supremely disappointing that they added a Kuva (I believe for the group?) on attempt. At which point.... great we're right back to square 1 with people getting bent out of shape if people don't stab their Lich GG....

TBH, I wasn't aware that the Kuva was granted only on kill attempt. And when I suggested the murmur share, it was with "on any defeat", whether that's downing the Lich thrice or stabbing them, in mind.

[Xarteros]

Given that there are numerous quests (or quest phases) that can only be performed solo, there's only so much credence I can give the "but I should be able to do X with friends if I choose" argument.

Honestly, if you find that PUGs are being too toxic and not sharing enough, you save more time and have more peace of mind if you just take a break from Public and run a Saturn mission with your chosen Progenitor frame.

It's the sort of behaviour people need to follow more in the online world. Just like in the physical world, you can't just let yourself be a slave to what others want to do, even if it means leaving a group for a day and doing something for yourself.

[GPrime96]

4 hours ago, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

Hell, people don't even attack their Lich unless they have the code, which hinders other people in the mission looking for their lich(unlike everyone else, I don't care if he kills me, can't learn if this is right or not unless I attack him and it's way faster than farming murmurs).

Not anymore for PC but i can imagine Players using that same dumb mistake on Console since Hotfixes are different for each gaming platform.

[Argenex]

I posted something similar over here;

The whole system has created a divide amongst players in a PVE COOP game, which is silly.

 

I definitely disagree with giving everyone a lich, as having a lich on neptune when you have 15 hours left on a credit booster and have no credits left,

really stinks like donkey bum.

However, I also think that the lich should not be able to gank 250,000 credits from you, which they do currently if you run high stakes index with one 

on Neptune.

[TenebraeAeterna]

The system is totally screwed up.

It's alright...when people are getting along, but people want to handle it differently and have fundamentally different views on how that should be done. I obtain my Lich solo, others try to do it via groups... I test out my mod configuration in groups...others don't want to level their lich. The entire system is just...very...very...rough and needs a lot of refinement.

[PatternistSlave]

A lot of these issues seem unrelated to the actual gameplay and I think will improve once the community becomes more familiar with the system.  Will new players still run around doing silly new player things?  Sure.  They do it in every mode and every mission.

[EvanGallaway]

7 minutes ago, PatternistSlave said:

A lot of these issues seem unrelated to the actual gameplay and I think will improve once the community becomes more familiar with the system.  Will new players still run around doing silly new player things?  Sure.  They do it in every mode and every mission.

I agree with this. my Liches invaded me every now and then while I was with others, they helped me downing them and I just went for the kill. Wrong mods, my Warframe died, not a big deal for me. I get much more frustration being oneshotted by the 3 lv 110 Napalms waiting around a corner in a high level Lich mission. 

I prefer to solo my Lich because it's the way I like to "live" this update, but that's it. I also played a lot with my friends and we faced our Liches together without a problem. 

I don't know if it helps, but maybe at mission start say you want to have the Lich? Maybe it can be a solution. 

Edited November 26, 2019 by EvanGallaway
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