Drydock / Railjack General Feedback Thread

[Maka.Bones]

This expansion honestly took me by surprise... it was a very pleasant surprise though. 

The drydock:

I really enjoyed the immersion of "needing to make space" for a spaceship dock. I mean, i had no idea it would be that BIG (that's what she said). I was a bit surprised that the mats weren't too expensive though (for me at least). Sure it was bothersome to change the layout of my dojo, but that seems like worthwhile effort to add a spacecraft dock, and start building my own spaceship. 

I enjoyed something that most people found tedious, because IT'S A M-FING SPACESHIP DOCK. Normally those things are large structures of their own. YOU'RE HOUSING A  SPACESHIP, so it's gonna be a bit (and when I say "a bit" I mean a LOT) bigger than your parking/car garage... or even than your house/apt .  It was nice to see that DE was aware of this.

Researching Cephalon Cy:

Tbh, I expected this one to come first... I mean, where does the research/knowledge/plans/idea even come from? I expected us to discover the data for a new cephalon in a mission, and then HE'd give us the knowledge of the incoming sentients, and he would unlock the plans to build a drydock for the construction of our railjack. 

Building the Railjack: I'm gonna name my railjack "Prime Pedestal" 

1.  I really enjoy that we have to salvage & scan individual parts of the railjack, though I'm not a huge fan of the mission itself. The mission itself isn't bad, but also isn't too exciting... I was expecting a bit more "archeology" or parts-scrapping to be involved (maybe involving fortuna builders and whatnot). 
2. I actually enjoy that the building process can't be rushed. Though I actually wish that it took longer to build the railjack... considering WE'RE BUILDING A M-Fing "SPACESHIP" and not a warframe.
   • I honestly can't believe people are complaining about the build time lmfao. Please Brozime, don't act like a spoiled child. It's not even a week long. Real spacecrafts take Nasa or SpaceX 2-15+ years to research & build. Not to mention that our virtual one has FTL capacity, which should be even more time & resource intensive. 
3. I wish that each component built cost more effort/resources. Honestly I just needed to run one mission, per different type of resource... and I was pretty much done. No other research, no scanning, or stealing Corpus info, no real grind... it was pretty easy, and disappointing with how easy it was
   • Considering this is part of "endgame" building this should probably cost more... it would also add fo the immersiveness and feeling of satisfaction/accomplishment once it was finished. 
4. The CREDIT cost of the railjack is pathetically low (credits, not plat). I would've preferred if it cost 25-50 mil per component, and I don't even have that many credits... Honestly, we're building a m-fing spaceship, not purchasing "Prime Pedestals" I don't understand how that concept seems to keep alluding so many players. 
   • Again, I can't believe other players/tenno are actually complaining about the cost. I personally feel insulted that the cost of a spaceship can compare to decorating our orbiters. 

 

Building a Railjack overall feels like it's "Space Fairing for Kids" or "Kids-EVE".... and i'm shocked that people are still complaining about it, considering how easy and fast it is to complete. 

DE I honestly think you've been spoiling your players too much, if they're really complaining about this. You're trying to give us content that feels "endgame" worthy, and yet people/players like brozime start complaining as soon as you add any real difficulty or challenge.  (I like brozime, but he needs to think before he makes his knee-jerk reactions. Otherwise he's encouraging the same problems that he and many other players are complaining of...) 

Its frustrating and sad to see how many players want creativity, and challenge, and novelty, yet they stifle it as soon as something new and different comes out

 

To end on a positive note, I still did enjoy the fresh and new experience. It's exciting to work on something for the future, and i actually enjoy having my railjack building/progressing in the background. I generally like the feeling of having things making progress in the background, while i'm doing other things. Probably just due to "Gaba" neurotransmitters, but it's still nice to know that i'll have something to look forward to in the near future. I hope we see more things like this in the future of the game. 

I also hope that we get to build another ship in the future, that's actually a challenging accomplishment. Or steal it... I mean, I wouldn't mind becoming a "space ninja-pirate" lol

 

(Not my original screenshot, i just took it from google>imgur)

Edited November 26, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Gelkor]

Idunno, my only thought on the build time would be I think after you repair the fuselage, you should be able to attach/repair all the other parts simultaneously, or at the very least go do all the quests to find them and queue them up, given that in theory there would be a manpower consideration when building a space ship. But still, I'd like the ability to go and do all the quests and dump all the resources in in one weekend, then, yeah, it could be like a week build, instead of having to wait for one part to be done to go look for the next part. After the Fuselage, you have the part that every other part attaches too, so it would make sense.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Gelkor

[Maka.Bones]

2 minutes ago, Gelkor said:

Idunno, my only thought on the build time would be I think after you repair the fuselage, you should be able to attach/repair all the other parts simultaneously, or at the very least go do all the quests to find them and queue them up, given that in theory there would be a manpower consideration when building a space ship. But still, I'd like the ability to go and do all the quests and dump all the resources in in one weekend, then, yeah, it could be like a week build, instead of having to wait for one part to be done to go look for the next part. After the Fuselage, you have the part that every other part attaches too, so it would make sense.

I do agree with that. I can understand the other parts having individual timers, but I don't see why we can't start working on them in tandem. Don't see why we have to wait until one is finished, before we can accept the next quest. 

Yeah, it does make sense for the fuselage, and for a power reactor/engine/computer system (if that were also a thing we had to research/build)... but not for all the other parts that aren't a core part of the infrastructure. 

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[fiendishrabbit]

25 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

1. The credit cost of the railjack is pathetically low. I would've preferred if it cost 25-50 mil per component, and I don't even have that many credits... Honestly, we're building a m-fing spaceship, not purchasing "Prime Pedestals" I don't understand how that concept seems to keep alluding so many players.

I'm a semi-casual player (with about 1500 hours in the game). 25 mil is probably my total credit income in 3 months, and that's if I do more Index than I usually do (25 mil is approximately 125 index runs). So your suggestion is IMHO pretty ludicrous, especially since Warframe should be a game that's accessible not just to the veterans but new players as well. A railjack should be accessible to someone that has only played the game for 3 months if they put a bit of time into it. A total of 150 mil would be a year-long grind for a lot of people.

P.S: We're not building a railjack. We're repairing one.

[Maka.Bones]

1 hour ago, fiendishrabbit said:

I'm a semi-casual player (with about 1500 hours in the game). 25 mil is probably my total credit income in 3 months, and that's if I do more Index than I usually do (25 mil is approximately 125 index runs). So your suggestion is IMHO pretty ludicrous, especially since Warframe should be a game that's accessible not just to the veterans but new players as well. A railjack should be accessible to someone that has only played the game for 3 months if they put a bit of time into it. A total of 150 mil would be a year-long grind for a lot of people.

P.S: We're not building a railjack. We're repairing one.

Do you repair legos? No, you build with them. Buuuut even if you're repairing it, it's still a M-fing spaceship.... Not a golden pedestal. 

If casuals can afford to spend 5-50 mil decorating their orbiter, and upgrading mods, then we can also casually pay 50mil for a SPACESHIP slowly and overtime... it's kinda the point of "veteran content" that you can't achieve something immediately and easily. 

 

BTW, I'm also a "casual"  🙂

 

Edit: Also, i'm pretty sick of this "new players should be able to enjoy it in a short time" argument.

Do new players participate in endgame raids in ANY MMO? NO, they need to work for it and PROGRESS up to that point. 

Do new players get Endgame Weapons in MMOs, right at the beginning? NO. 

DO new players PVP older players in ANY multiplayer game? NO.

Do new players get to complete endgame storyline quests in ANY game? Hecking NO!

Do new players go straight to the boss, at the beginning of the game? Only in dark souls, if they're brave/stupid/masochist enough like myself. Otherwise, NO.

Warframe is an incredibly easy game, and you can reach the "endgame" content and have an "endgame" loadout within a few months. I know, because i've done it, and i'm currently helping a friend do the same. It would only take 2-4 index missions every other day, for a few weeks, to gather the credits they need ONCE they're actually at the point where they need to worry about building a railjack. Plus if they're smart, they would've already been saving  for it ahead of time. 

if 25mil is your income in 3 months, then maybe you should run Index more frequently... I mean it's really easy, it takes 30 min to do 4 runs. That's an easy 1 mil. (or 2 mil, if you get a booster). If you need help running your index, just add me to your FL and message me anytime i'm online. 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[fiendishrabbit]

I certainly can't afford to pay 50 mil to decorate my orbiter and my Primed mods have, with a few exceptions, remained at lvl 8 for months because that's the cost-effectivness I can afford atm.

And there are 6 components. 150 million (or 750 High risk index runs, my brain can only handle 3-4 per day) is absolutely gittasticly ludicrous. I have real-life obligations and if something requires the requivalent of working an entire year to unlock I'm just going to skip it entirely. 24 million in total would probably be the max pain tolerance level, because there are absolutely no intermediate rewards to the spaceship grind (unlike the focus system) and spending a month* on the project would be grindtastic enough.

*That's a month if I don't do anything I consider fun in warframe. The Index is not fun.

[Maka.Bones]

1 minute ago, fiendishrabbit said:

I certainly can't afford to pay 50 mil to decorate my orbiter and my Primed mods have, with a few exceptions, remained at lvl 8 for months because that's the cost-effectivness I can afford atm.

And there are 6 components. 150 million (or 750 High risk index runs, my brain can only handle 3-4 per day) is absolutely gittasticly ludicrous. I have real-life obligations and if something requires the requivalent of working an entire year to unlock I'm just going to skip it entirely. 24 million in total would probably be the max pain tolerance level, because there are absolutely no intermediate rewards to the spaceship grind (unlike the focus system) and spending a month* on the project would be grindtastic enough.

*That's a month if I don't do anything I consider fun in warframe. The Index is not fun.

I do think index is fun. It reminds me of old "unreal tournament" matches. I can't help you if you don't think it's fun though, but YOU COULD help YOURSELF by suggesting alternate game modes for the index (or for credit farming). 

Add me to your friends list, and i'll help you run index fast and easily. It's not a problem for me, and it takes me about 30 min to run it 4 times.

[Philogosten]

Did this guy really try to argue that since some people have lots of disposable cash that everyone should have enough cash to buy 50 mil platinum? Rich people never understand that normal people cant just swipe their dads credit card to get everything they want. When you have to work a 9 to 5 you learn the value of money.

[Uhkretor]

19 minutes ago, Philogosten said:

50 mil platinum?

... if you read exactly what he wrote, instead of reading the first and the last words of his posts, you would've noticed how stupid that question was.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Uhkretor

[Philogosten]

2 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

... if you read exactly what he wrote, instead of reading the first and the last words of his posts, you would've noticed how stupid that question was.

"The credit cost of the railjack is pathetically low. I would've preferred if it cost 25-50 mil per component, and I don't even have that many credits... Honestly, we're building a m-fing spaceship, not purchasing "Prime Pedestals" I don't understand how that concept seems to keep alluding so many players. 

• Again, I can't believe other players/tenno are actually complaining about the cost. I personally feel insulted that the cost of a spaceship can compare to decorating our orbiters."

[Uhkretor]

1 minute ago, Philogosten said:

"The credit cost (...)

Which part was:

24 minutes ago, Philogosten said:

50 mil platinum?

again?

[Philogosten]

Oh misread credit as plat. Got confused since decorations cost plat. they dont cost credits.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Philogosten

[Maka.Bones]

32 minutes ago, Philogosten said:

Did this guy really try to argue that since some people have lots of disposable cash that everyone should have enough cash to buy 50 mil platinum? Rich people never understand that normal people cant just swipe their dads credit card to get everything they want. When you have to work a 9 to 5 you learn the value of money.

No dude, 50 mil CREDITS. You know... the easy to get in-game currency that doesn't require cash

I'm not one of these "rich people" you speak of... plus what rich person would ever spend that much money to get 50 mil plat?! ಠ_ಠ... Rich people didn't get rich by spending their money

Edited November 26, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Uhkretor]

7 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Rich people didn't get rich by spending their money

... Rich people get rich by getting our money instead of earning theirs.

 

But that's not the point here. I understand why it should cost 50mil credits... But this isn't Eve Online. A middle ground had to be found, and we got what we've got because of it... I wouldn't be surprised if they chose those resource/credits values to match the average time they would need to develop the initial Railjack missions and environment.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Uhkretor

[Maka.Bones]

52 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

... Rich people get rich by getting our money instead of earning theirs.

Lmfao yes, exactly.  I mean... yeah, that's true for some cases.

58 minutes ago, Philogosten said:

Oh misread credit as plat. Got confused since decorations cost plat. they dont cost credits.

Prime Pedestals are a decoration that cost 1 mil Credits, and only 1,000,000 credits (no plat involved).  That's also how much it costs to build/repair a single section of the railjack. 

@Philogosten this is what i'm referring to. This is an orbiter decoration.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

55 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

But that's not the point here. I understand why it should cost 50mil credits... But this isn't Eve Online. A middle ground had to be found, and we got what we've got because of it... I wouldn't be surprised if they chose those resource/credits values to match the average time they would need to develop the initial Railjack missions and environment.

You're right, this isn't EVE online. If this was EVE online, it would cost 100mil to 1 bil per segment instead. 

 

So I'm pretty sure the "middle ground" would be a "bit" higher than 1 mil. If DE did set the cost higher, I'm pretty confident players would just figure out a way to get the funds and make things workout. I really doubt people will stop playing, or that they'll stop getting new players just because they start setting "higher standards" for their difficulty & progression scaling. If anything, it might attract more players. 

Anyway, I don't really care if they make it cost more or not. I just can't believe people actually think it's expensive to build a railjack at the current cost, but they're fine with buying 20 prime pedestals (which would cost 20 mil)

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Uhkretor]

11 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

You're right, this isn't EVE online. If this was EVE online, it would cost 500mil to 1 bil per segment instead. 

1 bil is low by Eve's standards. 10 Quintil sounds more like it.

11 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Anyway, I don't really care if they make it cost more or not. I just can't believe people actually think it's expensive to build a railjack, but they're fine with buying 20 prime pedestals. 

... People got nothing better to do with their lives, so they unload their real life frustrations on DE by complaining about... anything. They even find the time to complain about stuff that hasn't been released yet so...

 

I would've pushed the requirements up just a tad bit more... But not just on the credits. I would've done so across the board.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Uhkretor

[Maka.Bones]

15 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

1 bil is low by Eve's standards. 10 Quintil sounds more like it.

... People got nothing better to do with their lives, so they unload their real life frustrations on DE by complaining about... anything.

True, on both accounts. 

Though I was just talking about a starter-mid tier ship for eve.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

21 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

1 bil is low by Eve's standards. 10 Quintil sounds more like it.

I haven't played in a while, so I don't remember the names but... I think my first miner was 26ish mil, plus 25-50 mil for all the other segments... My first "fighter" for missions was 200 mil, and with segments up to 400-600 mil (depending on what I used).

My second miner was around 400 mil, up to 600 mil with some upgraded lazers/crystals, and other parts. 

My first LEGIT miner for darkspace (took almost a year for research alone) cost 3 bil, and it was a small one. It had a cloak, and was meant to go into wormholes and then get out quickly without being nullified/trapped by the warp bubbles.  Though 3 bil was still "cheap" or average 

I built a spare of everything, in case it got destroyed. Had different bases & different locations to park w/ different clones, in case there was a pirate/bounty hunter after me (or there was a war declaration, or people just decided to troll hi-sec). Can't stay in one place for too long, and gotta have multiple different ways to make credits. 

I did have a hauler too, but i never got up to building/piloting the barricade runners (or i forgot their name... super haulers?)

Edited November 26, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Uhkretor]

Couldn't get that far because of CCP. Apparently, compiling Eve Online on Win10 makes it unable to run on anything else that isn't Win10...

 

... It runs, however, through Wine... But its 1 specific game among many that doesn't meet their own "minimum requirements" on a WinOS.

 

Back to the topic at hand, people are complaining over nothing, just because they can. They're just Gasbags throwing empty complaints, and I personally can't see it any other way.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Uhkretor

[Han971]

Il y a 3 heures, Maka.Bones a dit :

Do you repair legos? No, you build with them. Buuuut even if you're repairing it, it's still a M-fing spaceship.... Not a golden pedestal. 

If casuals can afford to spend 5-50 mil decorating their orbiter, and upgrading mods, then we can also casually pay 50mil for a SPACESHIP slowly and overtime... it's kinda the point of "veteran content" that you can't achieve something immediately and easily. 

 

BTW, I'm also a "casual"  🙂

 

Hi sir.

(I'm around 21XX hours played, but start re-playing since Old Blood Update)

As considering myself as a casual, i think 1M per part feels kinda legit, BUT:
Even if it will be "end-game" or "veteran" activities, it's truly ridiculous to see some issues such:
1) When you figure it out out repairing a space ship is WAY MORE expensive than building the Dry Dock itself xD.

2) You cannot see what you'll need for the next part until it finished.
This issue could be easily fixed if we can research the next part on the same way than the Cephalon Sy for example.
(I figured out by myself that i should need the new ressources before the first part ended then do it again...)

3) As The Railjack is on a Teamplay based-place, we should share it components parts or helped each others building our own Railjack.
====>I don't see the point of solo-building a Railjack on a Team based place, except of giving a value of the Clan-feature (to access the end-game...)

[EmberStar]

5 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

1. I wish that each component built cost more effort/resources. Honestly I just needed to run one mission, per different type of resource... and I was pretty much done. No other research, no scanning, or stealing Corpus info, no real grind... it was pretty easy, and disappointing with how easy it was
   • Considering this is part of "endgame" building this should probably cost more... it would also add fo the immersiveness and feeling of satisfaction/accomplishment once it was finished. 

Huh.  It renumbered your bullet points, and I can't seem to edit it back.  Anyway, that's supposed to be your Fourth point. 

I'm curious, when have the devs ever stated that Railjacks were meant to be "endgame" content?  (For that matter, when did they claim the Kuva Lich system was endgame?)  The requirements for building it, if anything, make it feel like "general content but not for completely new players."  You need a clan dojo, but it's entirely possible to build the drydock in a solo clan.  (I know, because I have.)  And six million credits is actually quite a lot for most players.  That's on top of the cost of the drydock, which is apparently somewhat pricey for larger clans unless they're organized and dedicated enough to share the load equally.

Personally, I don't find anything "immersive" about grinding for forty hours to unlock a single piece of a single gameplay item.  In fact by my standards, that's wandering up towards Battlefront 2 and the 40+ hours to unlock a single "hero" character.  (And EA claiming that they totally didn't make the grind stupid hard to encourage people to pay to skip it, but to give them a sense of... pride and accomplishment.  😛  )

Considering that I think DE set the mission to start constructing the ship to unlock after the Second Dream, that doesn't feel like "endgame."  And since they apparently have the ability to pretty precisely track how many people have how much of each resource, I'd say that they set the build requirements to be "somewhat challenging for a new player, but not impossible for X% of people that have finished The Second Dream."  And since they *did* choose to only require 100 to 160 of each of the new resources, and made them drop from mid-level Starchart missions rather than locking the entire quest to MR 28 and requiring 1000 of each resource and setting them to only drop ten as a rare reward on Rotation C Arbitrations...  I'd say that just having access to the ship isn't meant to be "endgame" content at all.

[MetalicSharpShooter]

I could think of a 100 different ways to make the rising tide quest better while simultaneously giving players more engagement in a quest that doesn't require a 3 day gate, maybe put more work into repairing the parts. Maybe stealing key components from sentients, grineer, or corpus, or exploring railjack derelicts, Cy could talk about how these derelicts fell in the war, giving further depth to Cy's lore (might actually make a video sharing my ideas to make the quest better actually). having to recover cephalon fragments of CY to get him back into shape. The biggest flaw with this quest is the quest giving you a major sense of urgency while contradicting itself with a 12 hour time gate for each part.

 

Cy: Holy S#&$ dude! The sentients are coming back, and they mean business!

Holy S#&$ dude, you serious?

Cy: Very serious! This is like totally super serious!

So serious!

Cy: Our best hope it to build this #*!%ing super cool spaceship, and we need to build it. RIGHT. #*!%ING. NOW! We can relax when the rail jack is finished!

Ok, Bruh, I've only known you for 10 f@#$ing seconds, but I feel a sense of urgency, let's go!

one part farm later

Ok, the first part is done! Let's go for the next part! Keep the momentum going!

Cy: Nah, let's just relax for the next 12 hours. No rush.

But what about that part where you said "We can relax when the rail jack is finished!"

Cy: Oh yeah, I lied.

So we aren't going to go get another part while this one is repairing, thus making more efficient use of our time?

Cy: Nah, chill bruh, smoke a blunt, bust a fat nut. it's cool!

You were just spouting off about how the senients are coming and that we need to build this ship because it's our only hope.

Cy: I also spout about how the orokin holocaust never happened. Don't believe everything I say.

What am I supposed to do with this sense of urgency?

Cy: Sounds like a you problem, fa@#$%.

 

It's just lazy padding for what is merely a bite sized quest.

[Argenex]

I am personally afraid that after all of these years and all of this prep, its going to be a one-off battle that we will quickly find the optimal way of dealing with it, and in fact be annoyed by;

1. The Janky controls. It's already madness when it comes to all the keys in the game let alone any of the other vehicles and other "modes", I fear its going to be another janky experience that will, quite honestly, annoy everyone. 
2. Some silly gimmick that will entertain no one, and just annoy everyone. (See profit-taker / exploiter / kel dah thul / amalgam on jupiter... hell nearly every "boss fight" in the game.
3. Constant pop-up cinematic spam. More and more I feel like trying to play warframe is as bad as trying to read an article on a news website. I really don't need constant cinematics and pop-ups in my face as I'm leaping around blazing out rounds. Also I don't need a cut-scene for when I accomplish something. ONCE IS FINE, but constantly? No. Just stop it, you are not a major animation studio, so just stop it already.
4. Some fake reason to run the content repeatedly, by forcing us to want / need a reward, that has a very S#&amp;&#036;ty drop rate. <-- This is usually the case and it's very depressing. Imagine a video game, where you do an event, and get to CHOOSE your reward? There are many that long ago moved away from the horrendous torture that is RNG, by wising up and using a shufflebag system instead. In the end, both casual and hardcore players FEEL the success, as they get what they want and are able to ENJOY the content, instead of smashing thier heads for hours against the same thing until they utterly hate the new content. Honestly I feel warframe keeps having content pushed into it, we hammer through it and hate it because the drop rate is always S#&amp;&#036;. Queue horrible reviews and hate-posts.

 

[Maka.Bones]

21 hours ago, MetalicSharpShooter said:

I could think of a 100 different ways to make the rising tide quest better while simultaneously giving players more engagement in a quest that doesn't require a 3 day gate, maybe put more work into repairing the parts. Maybe stealing key components from sentients, grineer, or corpus, or exploring railjack derelicts, Cy could talk about how these derelicts fell in the war, giving further depth to Cy's lore (might actually make a video sharing my ideas to make the quest better actually). having to recover cephalon fragments of CY to get him back into shape. The biggest flaw with this quest is the quest giving you a major sense of urgency while contradicting itself with a 12 hour time gate for each part.

yeah having a more involved "repair progress/research" would be a lot of fun.

I wouldn't mind if it took 1 week+ of repair time, but it would certainly be much more enjoyable if it was a much more involved questline & research/scavanger hunt process.

...And if it didn't say "you can't look for the next part until this wing finishes" it's just a wing, it's not the main core, or the power reactor, or the central grid/electrical systems, or the core computer. 

 

There's a lot more they could've added to and been more creative & colorful with. I certainly hope they expand on that process a lot more, and it doesn't just turn into another low-effort, mindless grind. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Maka.Bones