Ragdoll on melee slam

[LascarCapable]

Does anyone miss that ?

It was an annoying feature for most melee user when the slam attack would ragdoll stuff too far for sure, but as far as I can remember it used to be fairly bearable on most weapons available, usually just ragdolling stuff 5 meters above the ground at best. When melee 3.0 got released, most weapons lost their ability to generate ragdoll on their slam attack, with just a few candidates keeping that feature. So far, I only found two weapons able to do that : Jat Kittag (who kept the same level of absolutely insane ragdolling) and Masseter (who ragdolls roughly the same than most weapons before the melee 3.0 rework). Garuda's Talons are also able to ragdoll on slam, but those probably do not count since only Garuda can equip them. Even Obex lost its ability to ragdoll on slam despite having that ability since release (its trademark ragdoll on slide remains however).

I really wish there was a possibility to get that feature back. Maybe it could be a mod that improves your slam attack damage while also reactivating that ragdoll feature, or maybe DE could just reimplement that feature on more weapons (Obex and Prisma Obex deserves to get ragdoll on slam back IMO, since Obex was the OG ragdoll weapon as far as I remember).

In the meantime, do you guys know more weapons allowing you to ragdoll on slam ? 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Gaia's Tragedy has a ragdoll on it's block combo IIRC. it's a Gauntlet Stance.

 

[Furybone]

3.0 changed things in a lot of ways. ragdoll is what made gram/paracesis fun to use when bodies hit the floor... and the walls.... and the ceiling.... I don't really mind that its gone on some weapons but i really hate the air melee attacks. Totally broke sparring weapons like hirudo. You used to do this badass flying roundhouse kick for an air attack that was super easy to land headshots with. now you have the melee auto combo which just looks stupid and doesn't to much damage. I like where they were going with it, but we don't have attacks that launch things into the air so we can jump up and bash them into the floor like say, devil may cry.

[Lakais]

I wouldn't say I miss it. it had a charm to it. But the only problem I had with ragdolling was the same Team-Rocket orbital launch. If instead enemies ragdolled but were sort of tethered to where they stood so they only drop at most a meter or two away, then the issue wouldn't of been this massive. Though the loss of comedy might of been a price too high to pay. 

[LascarCapable]

10 minutes ago, Lakais said:

I wouldn't say I miss it. it had a charm to it. But the only problem I had with ragdolling was the same Team-Rocket orbital launch. If instead enemies ragdolled but were sort of tethered to where they stood so they only drop at most a meter or two away, then the issue wouldn't of been this massive. Though the loss of comedy might of been a price too high to pay. 

I see what you mean. Some weapons had insane ragdolling indeed, but most weapons actually didn't send enemies too far away. I think however the most popular melees at the time were the heavier ones, who usually had the bigger ragdolls, though obviously they were played for their sheer power rather than their ability to send stuff flying for most melee players. Gram Prime was (and still is) insanely popular before melee 3.0 and had quite some nuts ragdolls as far as I remember.

Tethering enemies IMO would make stuff clunky or break physics. Decent ragdoll on slam can be achieved if you simply just don't overdo the among of ragdolling provided. Sending the enemy flying 4-5 meters above you is reasonable. Jat Kittag levels of ragdolling however is not, and should only be achieved through specific weapons (or maybe modding if the almighty DE decides to give me a Christmas gift and grant us the ability to ragdoll on slam with a mod). To have an idea of what reasonable amounts of ragdolling could look like, you can pick up Garuda and try to play with her talons. It basically has the same basic amount of ragdolls most melee weapons had before melee 3.0 : just enough to be satisfying and pull out some fun tricks on a midair target.

[LascarCapable]

Someone told me that Magistar (and to an extent Magistar Sancti) may still have ragdoll on slam. I don't own that weapon so can anyone confirm ?

12 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

Gaia's Tragedy has a ragdoll on it's block combo IIRC. it's a Gauntlet Stance.

 

Thanks. Gonna try that.

EDIT : tested it with furax wraith. Didn't ragdoll anything. I suspect it came from the weapon you were using. What fist weapon did you use ?

[Aldain]

10 hours ago, LascarCapable said:

Does anyone miss that ?

No.

...At least I don't, honestly I like how I can decide which type of slam I want to use and the lifted status even at no combo can have a similar effect to the old ragdoll mechanics.

Plus the stagger makes for a good opening for more melee, whereas the old ragdoll had a bad tendency (for me at least) to send enemies flying all over the place.

[LascarCapable]

4 hours ago, Aldain said:

No.

...At least I don't, honestly I like how I can decide which type of slam I want to use and the lifted status even at no combo can have a similar effect to the old ragdoll mechanics.

Plus the stagger makes for a good opening for more melee, whereas the old ragdoll had a bad tendency (for me at least) to send enemies flying all over the place.

Some had more reasonable ragdolls. Heavier weapons used to ragdoll stuff more. If you were using Gram Prime before it was quite a ragdoll machine.

[themagus2]

It was funny but when enemies are just staggered you don't have to chase them in order to hit them

[(PSN)Silverback73]

16 hours ago, LascarCapable said:

Does anyone miss that ?

It was an annoying feature for most melee user when the slam attack would ragdoll stuff too far for sure, but as far as I can remember it used to be fairly bearable on most weapons available, usually just ragdolling stuff 5 meters above the ground at best. When melee 3.0 got released, most weapons lost their ability to generate ragdoll on their slam attack, with just a few candidates keeping that feature. So far, I only found two weapons able to do that : Jat Kittag (who kept the same level of absolutely insane ragdolling) and Masseter (who ragdolls roughly the same than most weapons before the melee 3.0 rework). Garuda's Talons are also able to ragdoll on slam, but those probably do not count since only Garuda can equip them. Even Obex lost its ability to ragdoll on slam despite having that ability since release (its trademark ragdoll on slide remains however).

I really wish there was a possibility to get that feature back. Maybe it could be a mod that improves your slam attack damage while also reactivating that ragdoll feature, or maybe DE could just reimplement that feature on more weapons (Obex and Prisma Obex deserves to get ragdoll on slam back IMO, since Obex was the OG ragdoll weapon as far as I remember).

In the meantime, do you guys know more weapons allowing you to ragdoll on slam ? 

JAT KITTY my friend...JAT KITTY.  I believe DE said it was going to be a unique featured carried over.

Edited December 25, 2019 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Lakais]

On 2019-12-25 at 1:17 AM, LascarCapable said:

I see what you mean. Some weapons had insane ragdolling indeed, but most weapons actually didn't send enemies too far away. I think however the most popular melees at the time were the heavier ones, who usually had the bigger ragdolls, though obviously they were played for their sheer power rather than their ability to send stuff flying for most melee players. Gram Prime was (and still is) insanely popular before melee 3.0 and had quite some nuts ragdolls as far as I remember.

Tethering enemies IMO would make stuff clunky or break physics. Decent ragdoll on slam can be achieved if you simply just don't overdo the among of ragdolling provided. Sending the enemy flying 4-5 meters above you is reasonable. Jat Kittag levels of ragdolling however is not, and should only be achieved through specific weapons (or maybe modding if the almighty DE decides to give me a Christmas gift and grant us the ability to ragdoll on slam with a mod). To have an idea of what reasonable amounts of ragdolling could look like, you can pick up Garuda and try to play with her talons. It basically has the same basic amount of ragdolls most melee weapons had before melee 3.0 : just enough to be satisfying and pull out some fun tricks on a midair target.

Well, the easiest way to "tether" them would be to have a hard-cap limit to how much force is applied to enemies in their ragdolled state in that strike. So when you do hit them hard enough with a ground slam, for example, they sort of pop up off the ground to about chest height and then plop down at most 2m away. Essentially being a knockback with the new "airtime" mechanic we apparently have, but to a lesser extent. 

The main issue is that ragdolls and knockbacks (are they even different things?) are in a weird way, one of those "more harm then good" features because those two are always second to the best CC which is death. And people get a bit miffy when you inconvenience them by forcing them to adjust their aim, usually unexpectedly. 

[LascarCapable]

9 hours ago, Lakais said:

Well, the easiest way to "tether" them would be to have a hard-cap limit to how much force is applied to enemies in their ragdolled state in that strike. So when you do hit them hard enough with a ground slam, for example, they sort of pop up off the ground to about chest height and then plop down at most 2m away. Essentially being a knockback with the new "airtime" mechanic we apparently have, but to a lesser extent. 

Chest height is really bloody low tbh. Barely a jump. 😞

Before melee 3.0, a jump attack would usually make an enemy jump roughly 4m up in the air, only to land not too far way (2, 3m ?), which is a bit higher than the height of two warframes. It's perfectly reasonable. You can still achieve that today with Masseter or Garuda's Talons, but that's a very limited amount of weapons to choose from in order to get a similar effect.

Quote

The main issue is that ragdolls and knockbacks (are they even different things?) are in a weird way, one of those "more harm then good" features because those two are always second to the best CC which is death. And people get a bit miffy when you inconvenience them by forcing them to adjust their aim, usually unexpectedly. 

It's the reason why they took down most ragdolls from slams aside from a few dedicated weapons. I'm mentionning that in the OP. But I still think there can be a good place for ragdolls if you don't overdo it. Allowing you to get back that small ragdoll effect on slam with a mod would be the ideal solution IMO, so you can choose between no ragdoll or yes ragdoll depending of what you want your melee weapon to be.