Plague Star encourages grief play

[Vespilan]

Do I need to say much more?

There needs to be a new "tier" to the plague star missions, regular with no phylaxis or catalysts and "elite" where you have to pay both as a ticket to even get in. 
The current plague star encourages grief play. It encourages you to leech off of others to safe on resources. 
Having to tiers would also make it easier for people to farm who do not want to use any of the two at all to speed up the hemocyte fight. 

[kaldewej]

If you play public, you cant expect players to bring optional items. Easy as that.

[gluih]

17 minutes ago, kaldewej said:

If you play public, you cant expect players to bring optional items. Easy as that.

That's not a reason to design the game that way.

[FreeWilliam]

26 minutes ago, Vespilan said:

Do I need to say much more?

Your mistake was going into a PUBLIC mission without 4 of each and picking up the slack yourself if that's an issue for you.

If you want randomness, go public.  if you want things to go the way you want them to, form a group in advance.

Edited January 21, 2020 by FreeWilliam

[gluih]

Either things like this should be fixed, or we need to have better ways to find people to play with. If people actually had to worry about their reputation among other players, there would be a reason to contribute for everyone.

[sam686]

At the time of this reply, I have:
522 Eidolon Phylaxis
525 Infested Catalyst

I have too many, so I just put all into mixer as fast as possible with gear hotkey in multiplayer squad.

 

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

1 minute ago, gluih said:

Either things like this should be fixed, or we need to have better ways to find people to play with. If people actually had to worry about their reputation among other players, there would be a reason to contribute for everyone.

The fix is called recruit chat.

[kaldewej]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb gluih:

That's not a reason to design the game that way.

Why would you force players who just wanna play a quick round to bring items with them? Not their fault that other players for example Vespilan want to play in a different way. 

Search for other squad mates in recruit chat or you need to live with the fact, that other tennos have different play styles.

Edited January 21, 2020 by kaldewej

[Skaleek]

Regardless of it costing little to no resources, and being able to put them all in yourself, its still bad design in principle. They should be like the razorback keys, everyone has to have 1 and it consumes each persons when one person activates. I have so many resources it doesnt matter to me, but people like the one in the OP really piss me off. "Because I can" basically translates to someone who's probably sitting at the front of the cetus while you do the bounty... "because they can".

[Vespilan]

2 minutes ago, kaldewej said:

Why would you force players who just wanna play a quick round to bring items with them? Not their fault that other players for example Vespilan want to play in a different way. 

Imagine if I had made my suggestion in a way that satisfies your demand too. Better yet, that even helps you get your style of round more consistantly.

 

4 minutes ago, sam686 said:

I have too many, so I just put all into mixer as fast as possible with gear hotkey in multiplayer squad.

Weird flex but ok

 

7 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

If you want randomness, go public.  if you want things to go the way you want them to, form a group in advance.

This is not about randomness. This is not about other people being bad at the game or the MR 2 excal not knowing he should have brought those. This is about people like the dude featured in the screenshots going into these missions with the INTEND to leech off of others. And why wouldn't you? The current style of plague star ENCOURAGES such behavior. 

[gluih]

7 minutes ago, kaldewej said:

Why would you force players who just wanna play a quick round to bring items with them? Not their fault that other players for example Vespilan want to play in a different way. 

Search for other squad mates in region chat or you need to live with the fact, that other tennos have different play styles.

Because it's not about forcing players to do something. It's about encouraging bad behavior.

[gluih]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

The fix is called recruit chat.

It doesn't fix the problem. You still have way too many people, so there aren't any consequences for people, who just want to leech of others.

And the chat is super annoying to deal with.

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

29 minutes ago, gluih said:

It doesn't fix the problem. You still have way too many people, so there aren't any consequences for people, who just want to leech of others.

And the chat is super annoying to deal with.

It absolutely fixes the problem. There are tools in place to do runs with full squads that use all of the mixer items. If you don't want to use the tools available to make runs to your liking then that's a YOU problem, not the system.

Public is public, deal with it or use recruit. Simple.

[kaldewej]

vor 32 Minuten schrieb gluih:

It doesn't fix the problem. You still have way too many people, so there aren't any consequences for people, who just want to leech of others.

And the chat is super annoying to deal with.

Calling this leeching ist wrong. 

[gluih]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

It absolutely fixes the problem. There are tools in place to do runs with full squads that use all of the mixer items. If you don't want to use the tools available to make runs to your liking then that's a YOU problem, not the system.

Public is public, deal with it or use recruit. Simple.

How does using recruit chat prevent someone from joining without his own consumables?

You aren't going to have disagreements about how the mission is going to be done, like how many bosses and how strong they are going to be in this case. You may increase the likelihood of someone being upset, if it is clear, that everybody should contribute. You can still run into a situation, where someone didn't bring a catalyst and you then have to choose to waste more time by leaving and restarting the mission or to just let someone ride along for free.

[Vespilan]

2 minutes ago, kaldewej said:

Calling this leeching ist wrong. 

This is leeching. The player in question profited from the efforts of his teammates without even the slightest intend of giving back. 
I would rather not have this discussion lead into territorries of basing entire arguments on the exact meaning of subtle nuances of a word. There is ill will here and the gamemode encourages, yes even rewards that. 

With this suggestion in place, everyone can more consistantly get what they want even from pubs and it shouldn't be anyhting huge. We had missions with item entry requirements before, we had missions with tiers before. You can still play plague star in whichever way you prefer, the purpose is to do away frustration. 

[gluih]

7 minutes ago, kaldewej said:

Calling this leeching ist wrong. 

Is it? Even if it's just about using the foundry and equipping the item, it's a annoyance, that you can just let someone else do for you.

[Aesthier]

Seems to me the OP came in unprepared by not entering with enough equipment to ensure the level of play they themselves desired.

[MysticDragonMage]

i agree that its a flawed mechanic that is in need of review. i personally like the idea that it should be like razorback which would offer players three different teir's which would require the each player to bring one of each different resource. recruit is in fact optional, but using it as an excuse to keep broken matchmaking mechanics the way they are leads to a number of problems, including confused new players, and repeated sparks of controversy (the creation of this topic for example).

i do not agree that this a form of leeching. leeching would mean that it is the fault of the player in any scenario (sometimes they've just ran out or are new to the game). taking the wrong relic to a fissure with a recruited group on purpose would be leeching, for example, because you should have had plenty of opportunities to bring the right relic.

saying that going public is a mistake is just wrong to say in general. this game encourages co-op.

 

Edited January 22, 2020 by MysticDragonMage

[(PSN)Zeylon]

I ran into a Plague Star session awhile ago where some other player called the rest of the team leeches, presumably because they added 4 & 4, and the rest of the team didn't.  However, they'd added them all before I'd even opened my gear wheel.

I ran into another mission where a player added 4/4 of both, and people left because they didn't want it to be that hard.

On possibly a similar note, I had a mission earlier where a player added 4/4, then dropped.  I assume on the assumption that it would screw over the MR 8/11 people that wouldn't be able to clear it? 

...I was able to carry that mission, slowly, but I guess getting downed so frequently was frustrating for the host, because they decided to host migrate us at 99% and one head left on the last Lephantis.  I got kicked to Cetus as a reward for my hard carry, zero standing, lots of wasted time, but got to keep the unwanted kavat herpes.  So, that's nice I guess?

There's some inherent ability to create uncomfortable scenarios when a single player can adjust difficulty from a single lower-level encounter to a 4 part boss match ending with 70+ critters.  It probably doesn't help that Plague Star, from the moment it was launched, is still an incredibly buggy/glitchy mode in an area that still has wonky party mechanics and lots of host migrations and lag.

I'd rather they worked on fixing host migrations more broadly though (after feeling their impact and lost progress in Plague Star, Arbitrations, Veil, etc.) considering how cancerous they've been as a handwaved flusher-of-progress since Warframe launched.

[Vespilan]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Zeylon said:

I ran into a Plague Star session awhile ago where some other player called the rest of the team leeches, presumably because they added 4 & 4, and the rest of the team didn't.  However, they'd added them all before I'd even opened my gear wheel.

I ran into another mission where a player added 4/4 of both, and people left because they didn't want it to be that hard.

On possibly a similar note, I had a mission earlier where a player added 4/4, then dropped.  I assume on the assumption that it would screw over the MR 8/11 people that wouldn't be able to clear it? 

...I was able to carry that mission, slowly, but I guess getting downed so frequently was frustrating for the host, because they decided to host migrate us at 99% and one head left on the last Lephantis.  I got kicked to Cetus as a reward for my hard carry, zero standing, lots of wasted time, but got to keep the unwanted kavat herpes.  

Seems like being able to match for the game style you want to pursue from the beginning would have helped in preventing all of these scenarios except the host migration one

[(PSN)Zeylon]

They could have three/four different difficulties or something like that for Plague Star, with level scaling, just like other bounties.  Restrict admission into bounties based on Operational Supply standing, with the top difficulty requiring the top standing.

They could keep the current version of plague star as an queue-in-zone option from a Plague Star NPC in plains of Eidolon, so the "use your crafted stuff" option is an option for people that queue as a group and enter PoE without the bounty, then pick it up from the NPC.  However, the operational standing received isn't higher than the top difficulty of the fixed bounty highest tier bounty (as only the final steps of the current version have any difficulty at all).

Mind you, that doesn't necessarily fix the same issue as any other bounty... that you can have lower level (or higher level) people show up and leech or not really contribute, regardless of whether they bring a macguffin with them.  It just gates access to the higher level bounties and puts lower MR people at a higher risk of earlier death in the newer stronger flavors.

[Vespilan]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Zeylon said:

that you can have lower level (or higher level) people show up and leech or not really contribute

This is something we can have in every mission and like in every other mission, you can report people for being AFK during a mission and effectively leeching on you. That is something you have to live with and can not really do anything about (sadly, let us finally kick people in the group smh). 
 

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Zeylon said:

It just gates access to the higher level bounties and puts lower MR people at a higher risk of earlier death in the newer stronger flavors.

MR is rarely a decisive factor since it does not reflect your gameplay expertise in Warframe. The friend on the screenshot was MR 26, I believe. And another Chroma I had in a party who was killing it with his damage buff and boar prime was MR 12-16ish.
If you just run into the fight without ANY prior knowledge you will have to deal with a bossfight that is probably much longer than it has to be anyways, even with the current system. This suggestion only makes it so that people who know what they are doing and are willing to contribute get paired with people who know what they are doing and are willing to contribute. 

[(PSN)Zeylon]

1 hour ago, Vespilan said:

MR is rarely a decisive factor since it does not reflect your gameplay expertise in Warframe. The friend on the screenshot was MR 26, I believe. And another Chroma I had in a party who was killing it with his damage buff and boar prime was MR 12-16ish.
If you just run into the fight without ANY prior knowledge you will have to deal with a bossfight that is probably much longer than it has to be anyways, even with the current system. This suggestion only makes it so that people who know what they are doing and are willing to contribute get paired with people who know what they are doing and are willing to contribute. 

You're correct, I was using MR as a shorthand for experience in the sense of very-low-MR people that show up in higher bounties sometimes, but it doesn't necessarily reflect either skill nor good intentions.

[hooperinius]

TBH I think the massive amounts of lag and host disconnects are a bigger problem than stuff like this, although it is a little annoying when you are the only one there with all the bits.