Public void fissure missions without relics

[NekoNaz]

Please restrict players who don't bring relics to public missions to play with other such players (who also don't bring relics).

Why it makes sense:

• when one player didn't bring relic other players feel bad (especially about axi). And someone can leave. And suddenly you have 2 relics in mission. And host migration... and more bad feelings.
• when you know that everyone bring something, you don't need to feel stress about checking no-relic-players and making hard decisions about leaving mission
• players can easily obtain some relics to run fissure missions in public. It's not easy for neo/axi relics, but players have no reason to run those missions without relics except for stealing other players time.

More importantly newer players don't know that this is issue. They are like "Ok, I better save my relic for later and farm some fissures first. In public." But then other players are like "Some noob leacher again didn't bring relic, I'm leaving!...". So it's about removing bad choices that players can make without knowing.

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by NekoNaz

[Ikusi_Prime]

That would hurt matchmaking, making it harder to actually get into games with teammates, reducing efficiency.

It would be better to simply prevent players who don't put a relic up from pulling anything out. You'd need to commit a Relic and collect ten reactant to get access to what came out of the Relics.

This wouldn't affect 99% of Void Fissure missions unless you're trying to mooch off other players by not-picking a Relic.

[Hello]

Ahh yes, because the game totally doesn't just bug out and not recognize a relic that is selected. This happens quite often with me.

It's not like you get to choose a reward anyways if you don't have a relic. All they get is void traces..

[-AncientWarrior-]

Some cheap lazy players farm void traces that way.. 

[NekoNaz]

That will surely hurt matchmaking for those who doesn't bring relics.

But maybe allow not to bring relic only for lith missions...

[5p33dy_01]

On 2020-05-12 at 1:24 AM, NekoNaz said:

Please restrict players who don't bring relics to public missions to play with other such players (who also don't bring relics).

Why it makes sense:

• when one player didn't bring relic other players feel bad (especially about axi). And someone can leave. And suddenly you have 2 relics in mission. And host migration... and more bad feelings.
• when you know that everyone bring something, you don't need to feel stress about checking no-relic-players and making hard decisions about leaving mission
• players can easily obtain some relics to run fissure missions in public. It's not easy for neo/axi relics, but players have no reason to run those missions without relics except for stealing other players time.

 

 

On 2020-05-12 at 1:52 AM, Ikusi_Prime said:

That would hurt matchmaking, making it harder to actually get into games with teammates, reducing efficiency.

It would be better to simply prevent players who don't put a relic up from pulling anything out. You'd need to commit a Relic and collect ten reactant to get access to what came out of the Relics.

This wouldn't affect 99% of Void Fissure missions unless you're trying to mooch off other players by not-picking a Relic.

as far as i have experienced, this is how it works.
when ever i dont put a relic up, it doesnt let me get a reward from someone else.

[Marine027]

Am 12.5.2020 um 02:52 schrieb Ikusi_Prime:

It would be better to simply prevent players who don't put a relic up from pulling anything out.

It does that already, no relic, you not get any and can't choose any reward from it.

Why do people assume people leech without relic? They assist the mission still but not get the reward without a relic, simple as it is.

And some people want the old Void back, there you could leech for real, no key and stay in then leave and never give a key back.

 

[beol]

On 2020-05-11 at 5:52 PM, Ikusi_Prime said:

That would hurt matchmaking, making it harder to actually get into games with teammates, reducing efficiency.

But I don't public queue relic missions to get into games with 1-2 teammates. Or to get people to "assist the mission" 

I queue public relic missions to get 4 things to chose from.  Getting stuck with people without relics is what reduces efficiency. 

[5p33dy_01]

1 hour ago, beol said:

But I don't public queue relic missions to get into games with 1-2 teammates. Or to get people to "assist the mission" 

I queue public relic missions to get 4 things to chose from.  Getting stuck with people without relics is what reduces efficiency. 

i have never had this problem, everyone brings relics in all my public missions.
the only time they dont put one up is when they run out, but they dont stay for very long.

i dont play with friends nor really have any, and dont do rad share or anything from recruitment channel. so it has nothing to do with that.

either you are complaining about maybe 1 time, or you are extremely unlucky, probably one of the most unlucky people in the entire community.

maybe its your connection, if the ping is too high for other people to join, you wont see many other people and the people you do get, will be a very select few from your same country or something.

[beol]

50 minutes ago, 5p33dy_01 said:

either you are complaining about maybe 1 time, or you are extremely unlucky, probably one of the most unlucky people in the entire community.

maybe its your connection,

Or, you know, I'm just replying to the topic at hand. 

I was pointing out the counter-argument that I quoted does not seem to have a lot of merit to me, because it prioritizes a less preferable situation (quickly matching people with relics to people without relics) over one that is ideal to the group I identify with (people with relics who want to get matched to people with relics).  OP's suggestion would obviously create an inferior situation for people without relics, assuming there are not very many of them, which as you note, does appear to be the case. I've never deliberately farmed traces without a relic, so I'm having trouble empathizing with that group. 

I can't say I've had this happen often enough to worry about either, but apparently OP does. 

Edited May 13, 2020 by beol
trim white space

[NekoNaz]

Less relics in group - less rewards. Is this hard to understand?

2 hours ago, beol said:

But I don't public queue relic missions to get into games with 1-2 teammates. Or to get people to "assist the mission" 

I queue public relic missions to get 4 things to chose from.  Getting stuck with people without relics is what reduces efficiency. 

You are right! To get 4 things, not 3 or less. If you don't bring relic you wasting other players chances.

57 minutes ago, 5p33dy_01 said:

i have never had this problem, everyone brings relics in all my public missions.

Random is so random for everyone. 

 

9 minutes ago, beol said:

OP's suggestion would obviously create an inferior situation for people without relics

Yes, let's them. I played no relic fissure mission maybe 3 times at most, because... I don't even remember. There is no big reason for players to not bring relic, there is always some extra relic you don't really need.

And I am mostly taking about axi/neo missions. There is totally no reason to farm this mission for fissures in public without relics.

[NekoNaz]

This is actually pretty rare issue, but it creates constant feeling that someone could always ruin your game. Because that someone have full right to do it. Literally piss other players. 

I don't realy care if someone bring 0 lvl frame or whatever and just makes me do all work, but no relic? Oh that's such so bad choice, but sadly it's legit.

[5p33dy_01]

7 minutes ago, NekoNaz said:

This is actually pretty rare issue, but it creates constant feeling that someone could always ruin your game. Because that someone have full right to do it. Literally piss other players. 

I don't realy care if someone bring 0 lvl frame or whatever and just makes me do all work, but no relic? Oh that's such so bad choice, but sadly it's legit.

rare issues dont get fixed... they cant even handle the common issues.... even railjack is so broken that nobody wants to play it, so they force it with NW.

the chances are that nothing will be done about your request... but thank you for making a post though.

[NekoNaz]

Well this is not even a bug, but maybe something could happen. I don't even know if anything is ever worth writing, just did that on a whim. But don't thing I'm not serious about this.

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by NekoNaz

[5p33dy_01]

9 minutes ago, NekoNaz said:

Well this is not even a bug, but maybe something could happen. I don't even know if anything is ever worth writing, just did that on a whim. But don't thing I'm not serious about this.

 

bug or not, its still an issue and worse, its a rare issue.

you can post what ever you feel like, just dont expect it to get fixed, no matter what it is... some huge problems for the community but minor in-game, take years for anything to be done, if they even do anything about them.

so dont hold your breath, expecting this to be resolved anytime soon, if it ever does.

[NekoNaz]

I've edited topic and added some more meanings about issue

[5p33dy_01]

10 hours ago, NekoNaz said:

I've edited topic and added some more meanings about issue

 

On 2020-05-12 at 1:24 AM, NekoNaz said:

Please restrict players who don't bring relics to public missions to play with other such players (who also don't bring relics).

Why it makes sense:

• when one player didn't bring relic other players feel bad (especially about axi). And someone can leave. And suddenly you have 2 relics in mission. And host migration... and more bad feelings.
• when you know that everyone bring something, you don't need to feel stress about checking no-relic-players and making hard decisions about leaving mission
• players can easily obtain some relics to run fissure missions in public. It's not easy for neo/axi relics, but players have no reason to run those missions without relics except for stealing other players time.

More importantly newer players don't know that this is issue. They are like "Ok, I better save my relic for later and farm some fissures first. In public." But then other players are like "Some noob leacher again didn't bring relic, I'm leaving!...". So it's about removing bad choices that players can make without knowing.

 

since you seem to be insistant on taking this further, i will go into further details.

here is something you may not have considered.

what if someone brings 1 relic and then stops there?
if they make it so you are required to have a relic to get into the mission, anyone that already just uses it for traces farming or what ever, will just use the 1 required relic to get in to the mission.
you will still be faced with the same problem, will you stay or will you go.

even if they do what you ask, it wont solve the problem, here is why.

basically this is what you are asking for, a rework on the system, where every mission works like defence
e.g if you dont have a relic you can not enter the mission and if you dont put up a relic then you are automatically extracted from the mission.

now this also has its problems
one of them being, people that stick around to help others, even though they have run out of relics or dont want/need to open any, now wont be able to.
another being, if you happen to be too slow to pick a relic, you are automatically kicked out of the mission.

this is how they would resolve this problem and should instead be what you should be asking for,
remove the traces reward if you dont have a relic

it does make sense that you shouldnt be getting traces if you dont have a relic, although even this has its problems
the main one being traces farming
e.g people that play missions without relics are farming for traces to max out upgrading relics so they have higher chances for better rewards, without sacrificing relics in the process.

bottom line is, no matter what they do to try resolve your "rare" problem, it will just create MUCH bigger problems for the community.
if you dont care about the bigger impact towards the enjoyment of the other players, you are just being egotistical and expect the game to be changed based on your specific inconsideration and arrogance.

Edited May 14, 2020 by 5p33dy_01

[NekoNaz]

13 hours ago, 5p33dy_01 said:

what if someone brings 1 relic and then stops there?

Forcing relic in this case brings another problem, yes. But that's defense mission problem, you can't extract after relic picks as opposed to survival. I'm not sure how to improve that.

13 hours ago, 5p33dy_01 said:

if you dont care about the bigger impact towards the enjoyment of the other players, you are just being egotistical and expect the game to be changed based on your specific inconsideration and arrogance.

Oh, I see you are as arrogant as me.

Anyway I've stated my opinion. With somewhat real examples somewhere. I'm not really suggesting any specific solution, that is for game designers. If other players don't feel like this is issue, then... ok i guess...

Edited May 14, 2020 by NekoNaz

[Tokens210]

This whole issue can be solved very easily for the OP, Dont play void fissures unless you looking for group for 3 players with relics

 

Almost every point you've made has come down to your laziness

people who dont bring a relic, only get void traces, no relic rewards, they leech nothing

none of these people wasted anything of yours cause if you wished for 4 relics you would have looked for a group with 3 more relics, you wasted your own time

 

your point about no relic in axi is done as well, with a booster on i get maybe 20 to 30 traces in lith or meso, while i get 40 to 60 in neo and axi, so imma be in there with no relic farming traces lol see ya there

 

ive also rarely seen people who quit exclaim that their quitting because someone without a relic is in the game, and for host migration, this game has had issues with that forever, you can have it switch hosts mid game to someone with clearly a weaker laggy connection and noone even quit, game just said aaaaannnnnnnddddddd this 1, usually happening at the worst possible moment cause why not

 

your whole idea basically boils down to you either want all relic missions to require forming groups before hand, or you want anyone farming traces to have to do so solo or also form a trace grinding group, which again would be all be a non issue if you just formed groups before relic runs

 

also a possible issues with the type of suggestions you had, people like myself who are sitting on piles and piles of vaulted relics would no longer use them randomly in public and instead would look only for groups when running one, which would make the vaulted item market start rising to pre dual unvaulting times when ember prime sets were like 800 plat, for the cheap ones, cause anyone who has happened across me in void fissures the past week or so has quite possibly gotten some nice vaulted drops from me, and the people on those missions without relics cause there was a few, probably wished they had had 1 cause they get to see a vaulted item they just cant touch

[NekoNaz]

3 hours ago, Tokens210 said:

Dont play

... solves nothing.

3 hours ago, Tokens210 said:

Almost every point you've made has come down to your laziness

No, it's actually greediness. Also I am sharing my relic with other people and I expect them too. It's some kind of respect. People with no relic don't belong to reward group and waste slot. They better just play solo. It's only hard for some players with lack of skill.

I want to push one button and choose from 4 rewards without premade group hassle. So it has come down to laziness, greediness and elitism. Truth unveiled. Maybe I should hang out less with Baro.

 

3 hours ago, Tokens210 said:

ive also rarely seen people

You've seen them. Nuff said.

  

3 hours ago, Tokens210 said:

also a possible issues with the type of suggestions you had, people like myself who are sitting on piles and piles of vaulted relics would no longer use them randomly in public

What suggestion leads to that? My suggestion force everyone to use relics in random groups, so you will see more relics, vaulted or not, and less empty space.

Edited May 14, 2020 by NekoNaz

[5p33dy_01]

7 hours ago, NekoNaz said:

Forcing relic in this case brings another problem, yes. But that's defense mission problem, you can't extract after relic picks as opposed to survival. I'm not sure how to improve that.

then dont play defence fissures. it is literally the only mission you can argue about.
i personally try stay away from all defence mode because they are utterly boring and bugged, so i know you are not losing out on anything.

7 hours ago, NekoNaz said:

Oh, I see you are as arrogant as me.

you may see it that way, but im just looking at it for what it is and being considerate towards the majority.
as i said "bottom line is, no matter what they do to try resolve your "RARE" problem, it will just create MUCH bigger problems for the community."
but you seem to have missed that part.

dont let your ego get the best of you.

7 hours ago, NekoNaz said:

I'm not really suggesting any specific solution, that is for game designers.

there is NO solution that will NOT make a BIGGER common problem.

if you dont know how to resolve your problem, dont expect other people to do it for you.
at least i listed some solutions and their side effects, when its not even my problem, nor had this problem in my entire time playing the game.

3 hours ago, NekoNaz said:

No, it's actually greediness.

 

3 hours ago, NekoNaz said:

I want to push one button and choose from 4 rewards without premade group hassle. So it has come down to laziness, greediness and elitism. Truth unveiled.

well, at least you're not being greedy and egotistical by requesting a system rework for mainly your benefit and the 3 other people that like your idea.
or maybe even those were people just laughing at the idea, but we'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

minority has a rare problem. 4 out of some tens of thousands+.... yes system needs a rework, so the tens of thousands can suffer.

just because you dont like what i've said, doesnt make me wrong.

Edited May 15, 2020 by 5p33dy_01

[NekoNaz]

14 minutes ago, 5p33dy_01 said:

dont play

... is not a solution as i said before.

 

14 minutes ago, 5p33dy_01 said:

no matter what they do

Some big words. Looks like you are one of them or maybe you are their manager?

 

14 minutes ago, 5p33dy_01 said:

if you dont know how to resolve your problem, dont expect other people to do it for you.

That's developers job to resolve problems. And they are other people.

 

All of these gone too much off topic. I don't think defending my point of view against your argument brings... anything useful. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by NekoNaz

[5p33dy_01]

3 minutes ago, NekoNaz said:

I don't have anything more constructive to say.

you havent said anything constructive to begin with.

all you have basically said is,
"here is my problem, now somebody fix it. i dont know or care how, just fix it."

no proposed solutions or idea's about a solution to discuss, nothing!.

[NekoNaz]

Just now, 5p33dy_01 said:

you havent said anything constructive to begin with

Sorry I edited this.

I've stated some facts, described other players behavior and why that is not good (so that's not just my whim). Actually suggested what I want to see.  Final decisions about what to do I'm leaving to more competent people. 

10 minutes ago, 5p33dy_01 said:

all you have basically said is,
"here is my problem, now somebody fix it. i dont know or care how, just fix it."

You simplified to much. Also there was some discussion.

[Tokens210]

picking and choosing a few words from entire sentences or paragraphs, so you can add a quick reply to fit with your point of view, isn't a discussion

your trying to make an argument about why an entire system should be altered to benefit you more and others less, in a free to play game no less, is silly to say the least

 

but by the way youve chosen exactly which word or sections to quote and answer to, i can tell your not really here for any discussions anyway, so im done here, gotta lot of "no relic leeching" todo