Since AI is hard to change, let's make some easy changes for hard mode and ultra hard mode.

[(PSN)caoshen0625]

7 hours ago, Chewarette said:

No, it's minor annoyance in the sense that it doesn't add difficulty, just some painfulness and in the end you don't use specters anymore for example (i already don't, so this "hard mode" will be "completely normal mode").

 

I don't use pizza often, and I've never used specter and air support neither, but have you seen how many videos out there ppl doing long runs with specters? use kid to pop survival supplies? can you imagine ppl do 6X3 edolons without pizza? I'm just saying these things will make any game mode trivial, even we are fighting 10000000lv enemies. Remember I want these changes in hard mode, not our current mission.

And I think it will make ppl use specter more. Now if we want health we can pop a health pizza, later if we want health again we can pop another health pizza, but if you can only use one, you will have to use specter, landing craft support, or bring warframes with healing. Have you seen ppl post "why do anyone play Trinity when pizza, specter, kid's arcane exists." or "garuda 3/Preparation mod is useless cus pizza, specter, void dash exists"? 

[(PSN)caoshen0625]

8 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

This just promotes the mind set of only using the Operator to proc arcanes, energizing dash, and transverse maps while intangible. Not a healthy direction IMO. If anything force the Operator to be used more, like with the Profit Taker, Kuva Guardians, traversal impossible for most warframes, etc...

A few points.

1. I don't agree that the kid should do more for combat, I believe that's warframes' lane. Our load out already compete with each other, I'm not sure bring kids to the mix is a good direction. You don't want ppl say"this warframe is useless, why would I use it when kid exists".

2. Proc arcanes, energizing dash, transverse maps, revive, and interact are literally what kids doing now. I just want ppl to be more careful with it, and remove 2 bs usage.

3. More mechanic require kids is welcome, but it's not the thread's topic. And it will work well with my changes, cus ppl will be really careful to use the kids as an oh shet button.

[(PSN)caoshen0625]

8 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

I don't like or use pizzas, but this is just makes things too convoluted. Might as well disable all gear like ESO and just screw over people that want to level their archguns.

And yes let me drop my niche consumable item for it to just slowly kill itself in 45 seconds.

 

18 minutes ago, (PS4)caoshen0625 said:

I don't use pizza often, and I've never used specter and air support neither, but have you seen how many videos out there ppl doing long runs with specters? use kid to pop survival supplies? can you imagine ppl do 6X3 edolons without pizza? I'm just saying these things will make any game mode trivial, even we are fighting 10000000lv enemies. Remember I want these changes in hard mode, not our current mission.

And I think it will make ppl use specter more. Now if we want health we can pop a health pizza, later if we want health again we can pop another health pizza, but if you can only use one, you will have to use specter, landing craft support, or bring warframes with healing. Have you seen ppl post "why do anyone play Trinity when pizza, specter, kid's arcane exists." or "garuda 3/Preparation mod is useless cus pizza, specter, void dash exists"? 

Edited May 19, 2020 by (PS4)caoshen0625

[(PSN)caoshen0625]

3 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

add diminishing returns on constant single power spam

Yeah they did this to Limbo and we all know how the community reacted.

3 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

introduce enemies that play us at our own game: with rapid movement, and varied abilities. we're used to dealing with trash mobs, we would have to switch up our style against enemeis that can also parkour, especially if CC is heavily restricted against them.

I would love to see this, but nerf cc gonna burn DE hard. 

3 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

add optional objectives that grant bonus rewards.

I don't want it to be optional lol

[(PSN)caoshen0625]

6 hours ago, Stonehenge said:

In hard mode, you have to fight slightly different ennemies : somes are exclusives to the mode, okay, but the majority of it just behave differently : they have more dodge move, they coordinate better and of course, hit harder. It's a very different flow, not just an army of bullet sponge, and Tripwire made the hard mode very worthy just for that.

 

I know what you mean, but it's not an easy change.

[KitMeHarder]

7 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

- add diminishing returns on constant single power spam

You're just gonna kill frames like Nidus, Hildryn, Khora, etc... 

Chroma, Saryn, Rhino, Octavia, etc... will basically be unaffected.

7 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

- introduce enemies that play us at our own game: with rapid movement, and varied abilities. we're used to dealing with trash mobs, we would have to switch up our style against enemeis that can also parkour, especially if CC is heavily restricted against them.

Have you played conclave, cause this just sounds just like conclave? Otherwise this is just a Manic essentially. 

[Ham_Grenabe]

You can only regen health or shields while standing still. Movement cancels any and all such regen. Alternatively, you can only do so while airborne. 

You have a greatly increased energy pool, but it cannot be replenished in any way.

Reloading a partial mag throws away any ammo still in the weapon.

Shields and health are greatly increased, but do not regenerate at all.

Proximity to allies nullifies active powers Or prevents power use. Keep your distance.

Revive tokens (from Destiny 2).

Transference randomly teleports your Warframe around the level.

You have to hot potato a debuff the whole time, or it kills the entire team. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Ham_Grenabe

[(PSN)caoshen0625]

30 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

You can only regen health or shields while standing still. Movement cancels any and all such regen. Alternatively, you can only do so while airborne. 

 

I'll take airborne

31 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

You have a greatly increased energy pool, but it cannot be replenished in any way.

 

31 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Shields and health are greatly increased, but do not regenerate at all.

 

As fun as it sounds, you killed a lot of abilities and arcanes, also long runs. So the push back gonna be supa hard lol.

32 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Reloading a partial mag throws away any ammo still in the weapon.

 

Force reload is just a habit, I don't know why we wanna kill a habit.

35 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Proximity to allies nullifies active powers Or prevents power use. Keep your distance.

 

Lol bruh

35 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Revive tokens (from Destiny 2).

Transference randomly teleports your Warframe around the level.

Why tho

35 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

You have to hot potato a debuff the whole time, or it kills the entire team. 

Good idea for sortie. 

[Stonehenge]

Il y a 14 heures, (PS4)caoshen0625 a dit :

I know what you mean, but it's not an easy change.

Not an easy change okay, but come on, if it's just a technical issue, if Tripwire did it years ago, DE can do it.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Stonehenge

[alenkiss]

I was under the impression they are giving us hardmode, because they don't want the Youtubers to constantly test weapons, warframes in the simulacrum. If so, normal rules should apply, just buffed levels.

Edited May 20, 2020 by alenkiss

[Steel_Rook]

On 2020-05-19 at 9:08 AM, (PS4)caoshen0625 said:

Hey if it's an annoyance it's in the correct direction. 

"Annoying" is absolutely not the correct direction. "Balance by annoyance" is an old MMORPG fallacy which has consistently failed to produce compelling game design. Limiting a player's options, such as by making enemies status immune or giving them invulnerability states. A "hard mode" achieved via hobbling the player and turning the game into an unfun slog is not a good way to go about making that.

[TheNeonGod]

For hard-mode, they shouldn't be any extra revives. You die, you fail the mission. When in a squad you still be in a down state but will have to be revived by a squad mate before the timer expires or you're out for the rest of the mission, unless everyone dies. Also make enemies correspond with each other to throw huge bombardment of grenades when players taking cover, or evading, and also with moas causing an earthquake to make hazards such as falling debris, or unexpected explosives,and enemies change damage resistance overtime and become much faster than in normal mode. Grenades and nukes from enemies should be a 1-hit KO to players, not even shield-gating could save you, so must avoid at all costs, except for bombards and shield bombards/elite shield lancers. Bosses should have a pinch-mode when they reach certain health%. The lower the health boss has the faster they become, and deadlier and faster attacks. In spy missions if the alarm gets triggered the data gets immediately destroyed. in rescue missions if the wardens activate the sequence, you'll be hunted by assassins pending on faction and a mini-boss, and the rescue timer will be halved. In capture missions, the target will move twice as fast and enemies setting hazards to make sure the players don't capture the target, such as mines and lasers. In survival, the life support will drain twice as fast and life support capsules take twice as long to arrive.

[TheNeonGod]

In ultra-hard mode , similar to arbitration if your health is down to 0 you die and fail the mission, you still immediately die even with squad. Also enemy speed scales with enemy lvl but has a cap, and they have adaptation like the sentients. some enemies will randomly become invulnerable for a short time or have to aim at their certain spot to damage them. In spy missions if the alarm triggers,the mission fails. In the rescue mission if the wardens execute the sequence,the mission fails. in assassination missions the bosses will ignore shield-gating and have adaptation like sentients and the stalker might have a chance to appear to attack players.

[str4dlin]

I would like to say I like all what you suggest because It gives difficulty. 

But know what? They implemented arbitrations where you can't use HP or Energy packs to refill. And know what? I'm sure If I look for post in the forum there are people crying because they can't use those and they implemented you can now use them. 

Everything we suggest is not going to be made as core because people cry after. 

So my suggestion:

All "specific dificulty selections" can be chosen by the player and it affect the reward you can get or something like that. Like if they were debuffs to the gameplay as it is being in other games or this same if we think about daily bounty mission. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by str4dlin

[Educated_Beast]

On 2020-05-19 at 1:54 AM, KitMeHarder said:

This just promotes the mind set of only using the Operator to proc arcanes, energizing dash, and transverse maps while intangible. Not a healthy direction IMO. If anything force the Operator to be used more, like with the Profit Taker, Kuva Guardians, traversal impossible for most warframes, etc...

......

Maybe in the future, but this is basically verbatim to how Scott pitched it on the livestream.

Completely agree with this guy.  Pvp sucks because they screwed up movement, it's no longer Warframe.  

Stamina, cooldowns, etc is the most moronic suggestion a player could possibly make.  Hey developers, please make the game less fun. 

Guess what, the Grendal missions were certainly difficult but most players hated it passionately.  They hated it because it took away all mods we worked hard to get.  What if DE removed all mods and called it hard mode?  Difficult and a pain in the ass!  But is it fun, hell no.  I didn't mind doing it once, but if that was Warframe, I wouldn't be playing.  

You see, hard mode has to be fun in addition to being challenging.  Most of the suggestions in this thread are stupid, and that is as nice as I can be about it.  

All hard mode needs is more health/armor with a few new tricks.  I liked the elemental grenade idea, manipulating environment, but restricting gear, operators, or warframes removes progression.  If progression is removed, why play?  Just go play a single player shooter where your character is always the same and never grows in power.

 

Edit - one more point, removing aim glide in the glass maker investigation test made jumping harder and many people failed first try because of this, but was it fun?  Hell no, restricting movement in anyway changes Warframe at its core.  Almost all of my builds use a bullet jump exilus mod (over power, range, etc) because moving fast is fun and allows skill to be used for survivability over just tanking.  

Restricting movement changes meta to tanks.  

Edited May 20, 2020 by Educated_Beast

[Ham_Grenabe]

12 hours ago, (PS4)caoshen0625 said:

I'll take airborne

 

As fun as it sounds, you killed a lot of abilities and arcanes, also long runs. So the push back gonna be supa hard lol.

Force reload is just a habit, I don't know why we wanna kill a habit.

Lol bruh

Why tho

Good idea for sortie. 

“How can I appear to be challenged, without being actually challenged?”

[(PSN)caoshen0625]

On 2020-05-20 at 6:41 AM, Steel_Rook said:

"Annoying" is absolutely not the correct direction. "Balance by annoyance" is an old MMORPG fallacy which has consistently failed to produce compelling game design. Limiting a player's options, such as by making enemies status immune or giving them invulnerability states. A "hard mode" achieved via hobbling the player and turning the game into an unfun slog is not a good way to go about making that.

You say that but I've never seen anything hard that's not annoying. It's just that we have been given too much, so anything challenge will have to take away some of our abilities. 

Imagine playing chess and we can move any piece however we want for 6 years and then one day in order to make it harder we were told to move the pieces by the rules. 

[(PSN)caoshen0625]

On 2020-05-20 at 8:14 AM, TheNeonGod said:

When in a squad you still be in a down state but will have to be revived by a squad mate before the timer expires or you're out for the rest of the mission, unless everyone dies.

I'm torn about this. I agree we shouldn't have that many revives. On the other hand host migration.......

The rest of your change gonna make the community riot and tbh it would be fun to watch. Not fun for DE tho.

The spy mission change could be fun tho.

[(PSN)caoshen0625]

On 2020-05-20 at 1:45 PM, Ham_Grenabe said:

“How can I appear to be challenged, without being actually challenged?”

The question that everyone is trying to figure out

[(PSN)caoshen0625]

On 2020-05-20 at 12:39 PM, Educated_Beast said:

restricting gear, operators

I just put a limit on them, not saying you can't use it.