Frail, but strong.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

I do have a question about a certain type of frame.

Normally, I'd use tanky frames in missions, those who have high armor, damage mitigation or self heal. Such as Rhino, Wukong, Nidus or Valkyr.

But there are some other frames like Limbo, Nyx or (for me) Nova (and maybe, I'd put Titania in there as well). Those frames are rather frail or squishy and I did wonder how one can manage to take those through high level stuff and/or endless missions.

I'd like to know what other players do with them for this.

[HoustonDragon]

Nezha's Warding Halo is awesome, along with the Spears for CCing enemies. Frost is also good for defensive missions, but only if you can be stationary.

 

It'd be nice if there was a health regen mod, similar to how shield regen works.

[gaogrir]

Limbo lives in his own dimension where he's literally untouchable.

Nyx can walk and shoot in her bubble of immortality. Or just make enemies fight anyone but her.

Nova gets 90% DR on her health while slowing everyone to a crawl.

 

None of those are actually squishy once you use their abilities.

Generally, frames that aren't designed to facetank won't have to.

[D3RPAxios]

@(PS4)KyomaSatomi the more frail frames you mention are still usable in higher level content, they just require different gameplay to stay alive.

As gaogrir mentioned, Limbo has his own dimension, the Rift, that he can hide in and control. His 4th ability creates a bubble of the Rift that will damage enemies that enter or exit it, and his 2nd ability will immobilize any enemies in the Rift, either in or out of that bubble. He can then deal damage with weapons with no fear of enemy retaliation.

Nyx avoids damage through heavy crowd control from her 3rd ability and damage absorption with her 4th ability. She also can use the stored damage to deal damage in an area around her, so all of the damage enemies would have done is turned on them.

Nova is an interesting case, in that she she gains damage reduction, up to 90%, from her 1st ability with very high ability duration, and her 4th ability can slow enemy movement, including attacks, by up to 75%. Her 4th ability augment, Molecular Fission, will refresh charges to her 1st ability every time an enemy affected by her 4th ability dies. It will let you keep the damage reduction active almost permanently, and doesn't require you to recast her 1, which you still need to do even with her 1st ability's augment.

There are a lot of Warframes with surprising amounts of durability, and it isn't always a function of high health pools or abilities that make them tankier. Some frames, like Ember, have some damage reduction, but also have a lot of damage output, and can clear away high level enemies fairly easily. As the saying goes, "Death is the best crowd control."

There are a lot of Warframe content creators with really fun and quirky builds on YouTube, and there are sites like Overframe that can help you find builds that make a lot of frames durable for high level content.

I hope this helped!

[(PSN)Viveeeh]

I played as Nova a lot during the Scarlet Spear event, so I have some experience to keep her alive. These squishy frames have great crowd control abilities you'll need to use to keep your enemies at a fair distance from yourself, so understanding abilities and their interactions with eachother is key. You also need to constantly look out for enemies who can potentially one shot you and make them your priority targets - so you'll need a Primary or Secondary with good range.

I have Vitality, Flow and Quick Thinking on my Nova. Always try keeping my energy high - Arcane Energise will help you with that. When the high level Battalysts in SS ground assault started their spinning attack I usually survived even if I got hit, thanks to these mods, when my teammates mostly ran out of health. It's also nice to have means to charge your health effectively, I use the Magus Elevate operator arcane, and it's awesome. 

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 27 Minuten schrieb gaogrir:

Nova gets 90% DR on her health while slowing everyone to a crawl.

My problem in that regard is that for this to work, I'd have to give up on her portals and I'd rather keep them as a tool for mobility.

 

vor 28 Minuten schrieb gaogrir:

None of those are actually squishy once you use their abilities.

Generally, frames that aren't designed to facetank won't have to.

Facetanking is what I normally do tho. I runn around a level a lot, but when I do actually shooting, I usually stand in one place until I have hit my targets. And having a frame that can eat up damage makes things easier for how I play.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 20 Minuten schrieb D3RPAxios:

There are a lot of Warframes with surprising amounts of durability, and it isn't always a function of high health pools or abilities that make them tankier.

I've usually taken to those frames because I find them easy to use. Just soak up damage while you dish out some yourself until there is nothing but you moving.

 

vor 21 Minuten schrieb D3RPAxios:

There are a lot of Warframe content creators with really fun and quirky builds on YouTube

I've seen some of them like Tactical Potato or Grindhard Squad. And yes, they have quite interesting builds (tho I have some special requirements for builds I use on a frame which makes it hard to actually go for any of them).

[gaogrir]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

My problem in that regard is that for this to work, I'd have to give up on her portals and I'd rather keep them as a tool for mobility.

It's more like 'press 3 to bunny-hop' indeed. There's no desperate need for mobility abilities though, with all that parkour has to offer.

9 minutes ago, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

Facetanking is what I normally do tho. I runn around a level a lot, but when I do actually shooting, I usually stand in one place until I have hit my targets. And having a frame that can eat up damage makes things easier for how I play.

Which is what these frames are designed for and that's perfectly fine. I like to press a lot of 4 on my Valkyr too, just to merrily claw away at hapless enemies.

But facetanking is still nothing the game requires you to do, it's just something some frames allow you to do.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 27 Minuten schrieb gaogrir:

But facetanking is still nothing the game requires you to do, it's just something some frames allow you to do.

It's all about preference, I guess.

Tho I am curious about playstyles different than my go-to.

vor 28 Minuten schrieb gaogrir:

It's more like 'press 3 to bunny-hop' indeed. There's no desperate need for mobility abilities though, with all that parkour has to offer.

I get what you mean. Tho I don't really wanna throw away an ability I might be able to make use of (not to mention that I have reservations of having stats go low in general).

[gaogrir]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

I get what you mean. Tho I don't really wanna throw away an ability I might be able to make use of (not to mention that I have reservations of having stats go low in general).

In Nova's particular case, negative range is not only necessary to achieve maximum DR, it also helps prevent the particles from engaging enemies and keep that protection up. So it's something that actively helps you out.

 

If you like more generalist builds that allow you to experience all diversity a frame has to offer...well go for it.

Many builds do focus on very specific abilities or synergies within a frame's kit and can be super-effective.

I used to run a Valkyr build with 40% eff, so I had very limited time windows to go into Hysteria...but boy was that hysterical at ~300% str. 😁

Maybe don't be to shy to try some more extreme builds? 🤗

 

[GPrime96]

Not sure if i put Nova and Nyx in there since Nova’s 1 acts like DR for her Energy Pool and prevents Staggers from Quick Thinking (so she don’t need survivability Mods to be tanky) and Nyx got a Augment to make herself invincible but at a slower speed. But besides that, Mobility, Ability Management, and preventing yourself from getting hit by enemies is how you can survive higher levels as Squishies. There’s different ways to Heal but still require caution on what you’re doing. It’s easier to survive now with Shield Gating though. 

These kind of Frames tend to get forgotten if it don’t have invisibility or high DR because of the Enemy’s damage being strong enough to kill you from out of nowhere even if the Frame is good for the Squad.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb gaogrir:

In Nova's particular case, negative range is not only necessary to achieve maximum DR, it also helps prevent the particles from engaging enemies and keep that protection up. So it's something that actively helps you out.

 

If you like more generalist builds that allow you to experience all diversity a frame has to offer...well go for it.

Many builds do focus on very specific abilities or synergies within a frame's kit and can be super-effective.

I used to run a Valkyr build with 40% eff, so I had very limited time windows to go into Hysteria...but boy was that hysterical at ~300% str. 😁

Maybe don't be to shy to try some more extreme builds? 🤗

 

Well, there are two things that make me shy away from those specialized or 'extreme' builds.

One: I don't wanna render abilities that might be useful unusable. I'm not really for 1-button (or 2-button) wonders. I'd like to have at least 3 abilities of a frame usable (and for Nova, those 3 are her 1, 3 and 4 since I have problems getting value out of her 2)

Two: When a stat goes low, I always have the feel that the thing has an achilles heel and will blow up in my face. Like when you have a Limbo or a Frost with low range. I always wonder how anyone can protect anything with so little space covered. Or I came across a Baruuk build with only 13% duration and I really wondered how that build could even work without something going wrong. It just makes me feel better when I know the stats are at least on default value.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb gaogrir:

I used to run a Valkyr build with 40% eff, so I had very limited time windows to go into Hysteria...but boy was that hysterical at ~300% str. 😁

I'd like to imagine what would be if you could use this power for more than just a few moments before running out of energy.

[(PSN)Unstar]

Each Warframe is a specialized tool that tends to shine in certain content and wilt in others.  You can definitely complete any content with any Warframe, but if you choose to use a Warframe for a task it isn't particularly great at, you're going to have to compensate with effort and skill.  Keep that in mind.

Generally speaking, I would say that you survive in high-level content by increasing your ability to deal damage.  Damage is important because if you're fighting level 100 enemies, they're a lot easier to survive against if they're dead.

So first, you definitely want to build up a strong set of weapons.  Pick some you like, give them Catalysts and Forma if you can so you can put your juiciest mods in them.  Watch videos that teach you how to mod because it's not straightforward; I personally recommend Brozime's stuff on YouTube, I wouldn't understand jack about how to play this game without him.

In addition, learning how to move quickly and effectively is a great help.  Warframes can move super fast with bullet-jumping and various evasive maneuvers, and a moving target is much harder to hit (this is not just happenstance, it is literally written into the code).  Moving fast will also allow you to get to enemies quickly and end them with melee, and you can use those same skills to escape to safety if things get hairy.  I highly recommend the mod Mobility.

Once your offense is in place, then it's time to worry about defense.  If you're using a squishy frame, the mods Adaptation and Vitality go a long way; some people prefer Quick Thinking and (Primed) Flow.  And beyond simply mitigating damage and getting a larger health pool, you'll want some way to regain that health and keep yourself topped off.  Some pets can heal you with mods, you can use Life Strike on your melee weapon, and many Warframes have either innate abilities or Augments that help them regain health.

Those are the general tips I'd recommend.  Beyond that, every Warframe has powers, and squishy Warframes always have a way to even the odds in their kit.  Warframes like Ember and Saryn can use their abilities to kill most enemies before they even have line of sight.  Warframes like Vauban, Nyx, and Nova can incapacitate enemies to various extents, severely dampening the threat they pose. Mesa, Zephyr, and Gara can give themselves powerful shields that make them nearly impervious to damage.  Ash, Ivara, and Loki can be invisible 99% of the time, which prevents enemies from attacking them (just don't stand near any visible Warframes).

Hope this helps give you some ideas!

[(PSN)Unstar]

5 hours ago, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

One: I don't wanna render abilities that might be useful unusable. I'm not really for 1-button (or 2-button) wonders. I'd like to have at least 3 abilities of a frame usable (and for Nova, those 3 are her 1, 3 and 4 since I have problems getting value out of her 2)

One unfortunate truth is that most frames don't have 3 abilities that are worth casting.  And I definitely feel you, because I'd love to have a really long Wormhole, too.  But you have to weight the benefits of utility against the benefits of surviving; your Wormhole won't be getting you anywhere if you're dead.

5 hours ago, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

Two: When a stat goes low, I always have the feel that the thing has an achilles heel and will blow up in my face. Like when you have a Limbo or a Frost with low range. I always wonder how anyone can protect anything with so little space covered. Or I came across a Baruuk build with only 13% duration and I really wondered how that build could even work without something going wrong. It just makes me feel better when I know the stats are at least on default value.

I understand this feeling, too.  But rather than depending on a "feeling" that something will go wrong seems to be in the realm of superstition; I would recommend taking stock of what exactly you'll be giving up and what you'll be gaining with a specific choice.  For example, what does Baruuk gain with Duration?  Duration doesn't affect his floaty knives at all, which I'd argue is his most important ability since it gives him insane defense and crowd control.  Duration will make enemies sleep longer, but why would you need enemies to sleep when they can't hurt you and they've been disarmed?  There's certainly more to it than that, but in short there are many Warframes that gain far more than they lose from taking a hit to one stat to boost another.  You just need to do so thoughtfully.

 

[kgabor]

With Nova, i just use Zenurik/a sniper with the Sharpshooter mod and spam Molecular Prime to stay alive.

Limbo, just stay in the Rift, use the Quick Thinking mod, keep your energy high.

Nyx used to have a disarm passive, which improved the frame's survivability if you spammed Psychic bolts, other than that augmented 4., have a tougher mob take aggro from a direction with Mind Control, use Chaos.

When i use Banshee, i just try to kill everything before they could kill me and i use Rolling Guard, Silence and Skiajati and keep moving whenever possible.

With Loki, i just Disarm everything and stay invisible for as long as i can afford the energy cost.

Ivara, invis all the time.

Ash, invis+Skiajati invis, plus the search and destroy playstyle.

I try to keep everything cc'd with Hentoid and stay out of the LoS of enemies while my pet Cthulhu drives them insane by flipping them around and taking their loot, no room for survivability mods.

Mag, CC and kill everything, Counter Pulse augment.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb (PS4)Unstar:

One unfortunate truth is that most frames don't have 3 abilities that are worth casting.

I still think it would be a waste to render an ability unusable because the stats go too low.

And I also think using only 1 or 2 of a frame's abilities is too limiting.

vor 2 Stunden schrieb (PS4)Unstar:

But rather than depending on a "feeling" that something will go wrong seems to be in the realm of superstition; I would recommend taking stock of what exactly you'll be giving up and what you'll be gaining with a specific choice.

It's a feeling I can't shake. I literally have an aversion to stats going below default, even if it's just by 5%. When I think of running a frame with stats low in one depeartment, I always have that doubt in the back of my mind that tells me that this will end in a disaster for me.
I have nothing to back this up, but it's a pretty strong sentiment for me.