[The Outdated Parkour Thread] It Finally Happened! (Voice Your Opinion In The Poll!)

[Buzkyl]

It costs me 100,000 credits month at most to keep my Kubrow alive... what's causing people to spend that much on Kubrows? 

Double Direction Melee glitches seem to get me all the way into the top area on Europa Conclave, which is about base tail wind. 

Directional melee, as it has basically no delay, has a higher average speed and distance as opposed to coptering on most things that don't throw you completely out of control. For example, the glaive just throws me across Sechura's Corpus zipline base. So there's no real use, to me anyway, for that copter and I find myself using directional melee more than the copter as it's more easily controllable and has a much higher range of motion. 

 

And that wasn't an argument, it's just how I feel it's heading since things are just being replaced and forgotten about and it's sad to me. It bothers me deeply. 

 

 

Not every players wants a 100k upkeep cost for pets they use situationally, just because you can, that does not mean everyone does. Along with the time wall out of stasis just to use them, or even customize them. I'm going to to take a gltich seriously, while yes, it is useful, but it's still a glitch. At the end oft he day it is unintended. Likewise coptering has little to no delay like air melee as to air melee being faster, not really. As you air meleeing from on side of the Corpus zipline was possible before with coptering. Air melee give more vertical elevation, but in terms of horizontal movement, it pales in comparison to coptering. The 2 aren't the same mechanic, they're ment to co-exist. However, i do agree, it's much easier to control air-melee than coptering as many times i can offshoot my landspot with a good copter. Unlike Air-melee where i can most of the time where i want.

Edited November 23, 2014 by cozzi21

[taiiat]

Why the heck is everyone overusing the word "Parkour". Why the heck is everyone supporting automated movement a la Assassin's creed and that parasite one?

nobody is asking for 'Parkour' as bad tasting as Assassin's Creed.

 

we're asking for more fluid control over our characters, not less.

[BalancedFury]

if they added all of this it would be AWSOME

[DSpite]

So we meet again, DSpite...

 

1) Sorry but I Never said upvotes are like worthless likes on facebook man : as I write this, this thread is 34 pages long & is One year and a month old! This is what I'm trying to say. The only obvious improvement in that duration with this topic? Directional melee (which was meant to make melee only missions possible. We can kill osprey sword alone now.)

Wallrun is still useful.Sliding is still useful. Both need some tweaks. Imagine a game with a smooth animation to run, but a weird one if you just want to walk.Strange isn't it?

 

This thread was here before directional melee,please remember.

 

2) I prefer to play like this, how is it a problem? Where am I trying to convert everyone to do the same as me? This game can have a rich gameplay experience with different way to reach something. Suppose that there's a goal uphill : some would like to go there using the stairs, others would like to wallrun and launch themselves in that direction,and the last one like you would just use directional melee. Just because directional melee could be more effective than wallrun doesn't mean that wallrun is useless and therefore must be deleted. Choice.

 

I just have one question to ask to you : did you watch the last devstream? When momma Lotus tried to do some advanced moves during that Spy 2.0? If not, you'll immediately understand(this problem,and another one hehe). ;)

 

Yea I did watch the Devstream. She gets up there with Directional melee, and that because she did not have a Frame with Tailwind or Super Jump, or Bounce or Worm Hole, which would also have worked fine getting over or through the laser barriers.

 

I actually hope DE does give you all the fixes you want, but not at the COST of removing what we have already to try and force me to play YOUR way for no good reason.

 

Please feel free to list what you would do to the current air melee and coptering in order to bring it "into line", because I'm pretty sure you would annoy everyone to bring it down to a level that it will not trivialize a wall run.

[Temmron]

Yea I did watch the Devstream. She gets up there with Directional melee, and that because she did not have a Frame with Tailwind or Super Jump, or Bounce or Worm Hole, which would also have worked fine getting over or through the laser barriers.

 

I actually hope DE does give you all the fixes you want, but not at the COST of removing what we have already to try and force me to play YOUR way for no good reason.

 

Please feel free to list what you would do to the current air melee and coptering in order to bring it "into line", because I'm pretty sure you would annoy everyone to bring it down to a level that it will not trivialize a wall run.

There doesnt need to be any changes to coptering/ air melee! why do you think that the both fight against each other?

Edited November 25, 2014 by Seyenas

[xStonedRaveNx]

nobody is asking for 'Parkour' as bad tasting as Assassin's Creed.

 

we're asking for more fluid control over our characters, not less.

 

 

How you'd want that in game that's 80% hallways stumps me. While prettier animations would be nice I wonder what we'd lose. Optimizing movements and how one moves across the map is mostly up to the player, hence coptering or my current combo sprint->slide->jump->slide->copter. The only option to force vanilla movement mechanics would be to remove these elements altogether, taking away from the fun of the experience. 

[taiiat]

The only option to force

it's like talking to brick walls. 

there is no need to force Players to use this or that. having multiple options means everyone wins.

[unknow99]

Yea I did watch the Devstream. She gets up there with Directional melee, and that because she did not have a Frame with Tailwind or Super Jump, or Bounce or Worm Hole, which would also have worked fine getting over or through the laser barriers.

 

I actually hope DE does give you all the fixes you want, but not at the COST of removing what we have already to try and force me to play YOUR way for no good reason.

 

Please feel free to list what you would do to the current air melee and coptering in order to bring it "into line", because I'm pretty sure you would annoy everyone to bring it down to a level that it will not trivialize a wall run.

Yeah, like Seyenas said : why are you so convinced about the idea that parkour improvements will automatically be followed with directional melee nerf?Why?

 

I guess that the best way to find out would be to wait & see how D.E. handles this topic. I'm curious about the way DE would implement this.

 

*wink to [DE]Rebecca or any dev still reading this.*

[Ashnal]

Just tested it. From my experience it is simply "landing" animation replaced with new type of roll. Since landing does not take away your control (if it isn't a roll) you can steer that roll in hysteria just like you can turn when you land with anything else (it simply looks different). When landing from high up when roll is unavoidable she still does the classic roll which locks you into one direction.

Yeah. My hope is that the low jump roll becomes the standard roll for everything.

[Wurdyburd]

The thing a lot of the naysayers seem to disregard is that directional melee has COMPLETELY replaced parkour, AND movement abilities. As a Zephyr, I can take a Galatine and directional melee straight up, and reach a height needed to activate Heavy Impact, which is coincidentally the same height a non-airborne Tailwind will take me, as well as Super Jump. Therefore, there's no need for EITHER of those abilities anymore; with a weapon as heavy as the Galatine, I can reach the same height as Zephyr and Excalibur. 

 

This thread isn't to say that parkour should replace coptering and dir.melee like they replaced parkour. It's to bring parkour up to the same standards as many other elements in the game, so that it's a reasonable option. As it currently is, we can't outrun bullets anymore. Wallrunning for a prolonged period of time in a crowded room is suicide because of the insane accuracy of enemy weapons, it'd be a bad idea to be on a wide open wall with no cover whatsoever. You'd be a moving target, but a target any enemy with a gun can hit anyway.

 

That said: I wouldn't actually be against DE exercising 'class' traits more. Rhino is terrible at parkour, and rightly so; he's slow and bulky, and shouldn't be able to fly around like a Loki could. But if nothing else, give every frame the OPTION to navigate complex terrain. Don't make the slow suckers trudge up stairs that even the Grineer ignore since they can soar like eagles onto ledges.

[BalancedFury]

bumpthis

[HazaRD-WARRIOR]

A lot of good points... However, wall running and all that should be part of the fight as well. In this case I am thinking most of the points you said would help in doing this better, all except the aim to change direction of walking on walls.

 

Not sure how that would play out when you are wall running and aiming at enemies shooting at them. I do whenever I can, and it will not be possible after these changes. I think that strafe is a better way to control wall running. Leave the aim for actually aiming at enemies.

 

Vertical Run - Strafe left right simply allows to create left or right movements.

 

Horizontal Wall Run - Strafe left right plays out depending on which side the wall is.

Wall on your right - right strafe (towards the wall) moves higher, left strafe (away from the wall) moves lower. The opposite for wall on your left.

 

You have a lot of awesome points made, I hope they could at some point implement such a thing and call it Movement 2.0. lol. However, they need to be careful on it as it still needs to hold to the action in it. Don't want it to end up simply a parkour game. We have Assassins Creed for that.

 

Level Design Upgrade-

 

What remains after that is some better level designs to allow for more acrobatics of the like. There is quite a sum already, but I think that many were figured out by players rather than actually the devs sitting there thinking "hmmm, now how can we make this area focus on some parkour?" I could be wrong.

 

They have done some level updates from time to time to add locations in maps that in fact favour this, we need just a few more I think, as well as an entire different approach which will focus on creating a dynamic parkour environment from time to time. They don't need to change the maps, simply add some sections in each tileset.

 

The stages in doing this are 3 in my opinion-

 

1- Open areas with obstacles, larger, fewer, well placed to allow for wall running and jumping on ledges, etc. Obstacles can become places for cover that the enemy uses, making wall running and climbing around and above them actually effective. At the moment most locations are either filled with too much clutter or too open to make a difference if you wall-run in the first place. You just end up looking like an idiot running on a wall for no reason.

 

2- "Trap-like" locations and ledges with deep chasms bellow that can need parkour tactics as a way to get faster to map locations and not so much for field use (combat). They have some of these already. They include locations were you can either walk around them, or simply wall-run-propel yourself to the other side. The are good, they need to be simply fleshed out more. Create an entire passage for example with no floor, ledges and walls to run across and jump your way through it all, platforms to climb too, perhaps some to slide under, etc. Or, someone could simply walk around from another path.

 

Instead of having a location we can jump across once in a map, these could prove much more fun. Variations on them can also make them feel less boring.

 

On this model, other things can be also added. More secret caches, as well as an entire mission type that has you rushing out of a "time-bomb" location or ship, making parkour crucial, or for those that can't play like that making speed mods crucial and if they are lucky (perhaps a Volt skill and other skills to get to places faster will be on their to do list in such missions). They could also create dynamic events within missions that you have to rush through (like a room trap that you triggered and you have to acrobatically run you way out of it). These need to be properly designed ofcourse, when you are in a group of 4 and one person sets the trap and all have to run it can make a mess of things. Probably should be able to lock down entire locations like that as well with other paths around them.

 

3- Enemy hubs that require maneouvers to get to. For example, a Grineer bunker within a ship (not bunker, more like defensive position with shields in front and small opening in them for the Grineer to fire at you whilst under cover. Depending on the location the way to them could be trapped in one way or another.

 

Mining planet thingy tileset? They could be on a ledge to another room, the ground all around them a chasm with lava bellow. Running on a wall to reach behind their shield and jumping off it to get to them, or simply firing at them as you run across that wall, is one way to use parkour there.

 

Earth tileset? They could have mines, or a river, or both, and you need to run on side of a rock wall, or climb a rock foundation. At which point they can also add some branches coming out of walls and stuff to be used as swings (kind of like Ninja Gaiden) which will obviously need another mechanic added as well, swinging, however could spawn an entire range of such level designs in the game to be added. For starters, they could make the frames simply grab onto the branches and climb onto them.

 

Grineer spaceship tilest? A bunker house perhaps. This idea could be 2 and 3 in one ultimately. You need to take cover, get through traps, and parkour your way around the obvious paths that the Grineer might be covering with suppressive fire.

 

 

With all the changes you mentioned, I think that the next step in the evolution of this system in Warframe is indeed level design that will make use of it. This I think is one of the basic things they need to add to the game to make it more interesting. It is ultimately a way to adding so many more scenarios and mission types as well as map conditions other than sprinting to objective, that might make the game much more interesting for everyone.

 

These additions also do not need to be easy. I mean, we have climbing locations and little things here and there but they are all ultimately easy (like the non functioning air ducts in Corpus ships... anyone can climb in them). Parkour level designs should be harder and there for the skilled. Don't want it to become ultimately just another "walk function" to end up feeling like you are simply sprinting to a location again. And it shouldn't be accessible/doable by all players unless they can do it. Make it hard enough for it at times to create trial and error even for veterans, making them even more interested in trying to master it.

 

Game design that compliments such manoeuvres is definitely one of the important things that should be on DE's to do list. Im thinking it would be simply amazing (and also bring back some of that initial Space Ninja feel that it once had... a feel that is to be honest covered in a lot of other stuff now, with hat wielding magicians and pirates... but anyway)...

Edited November 25, 2014 by HazaRD-WARRIOR

[(PSN)theelix]

A lot of good points... However, wall running and all that should be part of the fight as well. In this case I am thinking most of the points you said would help in doing this better, all except the aim to change direction of walking on walls.

 

Not sure how that would play out when you are wall running and aiming at enemies shooting at them. I do whenever I can, and it will not be possible after these changes. I think that strafe is a better way to control wall running. Leave the aim for actually aiming at enemies.

 

Vertical Run - Strafe left right simply allows to create left or right movements.

 

Horizontal Wall Run - Strafe left right plays out depending on which side the wall is.

Wall on your right - right strafe (towards the wall) moves higher, left strafe (away from the wall) moves lower. The opposite for wall on your left.

 

You have a lot of awesome points made, I hope they could at some point implement such a thing and call it Movement 2.0. lol. However, they need to be careful on it as it still needs to hold to the action in it. Don't want it to end up simply a parkour game. We have Assassins Creed for that.

 

Level Design Upgrade-

 

What remains after that is some better level designs to allow for more acrobatics of the like. There is quite a sum already, but I think that many were figured out by players rather than actually the devs sitting there thinking "hmmm, now how can we make this area focus on some parkour?" I could be wrong.

 

They have done some level updates from time to time to add locations in maps that in fact favour this, we need just a few more I think, as well as an entire different approach which will focus on creating a dynamic parkour environment from time to time. They don't need to change the maps, simply add some sections in each tileset.

 

The stages in doing this are 3 in my opinion-

 

1- Open areas with obstacles, larger, fewer, well placed to allow for wall running and jumping on ledges, etc. Obstacles can become places for cover that the enemy uses, making wall running and climbing around and above them actually effective. At the moment most locations are either filled with too much clutter or too open to make a difference if you wall-run in the first place. You just end up looking like an idiot running on a wall for no reason.

 

2- "Trap-like" locations and ledges with deep chasms bellow that can need parkour tactics as a way to get faster to map locations and not so much for field use (combat). They have some of these already. They include locations were you can either walk around them, or simply wall-run-propel yourself to the other side. The are good, they need to be simply fleshed out more. Create an entire passage for example with no floor, ledges and walls to run across and jump your way through it all, platforms to climb too, perhaps some to slide under, etc. Or, someone could simply walk around from another path.

 

Instead of having a location we can jump across once in a map, these could prove much more fun. Variations on them can also make them feel less boring.

 

On this model, other things can be also added. More secret caches, as well as an entire mission type that has you rushing out of a "time-bomb" location or ship, making parkour crucial, or for those that can't play like that making speed mods crucial and if they are lucky (perhaps a Volt skill and other skills to get to places faster will be on their to do list in such missions). They could also create dynamic events within missions that you have to rush through (like a room trap that you triggered and you have to acrobatically run you way out of it). These need to be properly designed ofcourse, when you are in a group of 4 and one person sets the trap and all have to run it can make a mess of things. Probably should be able to lock down entire locations like that as well with other paths around them.

 

3- Enemy hubs that require maneouvers to get to. For example, a Grineer bunker within a ship (not bunker, more like defensive position with shields in front and small opening in them for the Grineer to fire at you whilst under cover. Depending on the location the way to them could be trapped in one way or another.

 

Mining planet thingy tileset? They could be on a ledge to another room, the ground all around them a chasm with lava bellow. Running on a wall to reach behind their shield and jumping off it to get to them, or simply firing at them as you run across that wall, is one way to use parkour there.

 

Earth tileset? They could have mines, or a river, or both, and you need to run on side of a rock wall, or climb a rock foundation. At which point they can also add some branches coming out of walls and stuff to be used as swings (kind of like Ninja Gaiden) which will obviously need another mechanic added as well, swinging, however could spawn an entire range of such level designs in the game to be added. For starters, they could make the frames simply grab onto the branches and climb onto them.

 

Grineer spaceship tilest? A bunker house perhaps. This idea could be 2 and 3 in one ultimately. You need to take cover, get through traps, and parkour your way around the obvious paths that the Grineer might be covering with suppressive fire.

 

 

With all the changes you mentioned, I think that the next step in the evolution of this system in Warframe is indeed level design that will make use of it. This I think is one of the basic things they need to add to the game to make it more interesting. It is ultimately a way to adding so many more scenarios and mission types as well as map conditions other than sprinting to objective, that might make the game much more interesting for everyone.

 

These additions also do not need to be easy. I mean, we have climbing locations and little things here and there but they are all ultimately easy (like the non functioning air ducts in Corpus ships... anyone can climb in them). Parkour level designs should be harder and there for the skilled. Don't want it to become ultimately just another "walk function" to end up feeling like you are simply sprinting to a location again. And it shouldn't be accessible/doable by all players unless they can do it. Make it hard enough for it at times to create trial and error even for veterans, making them even more interested in trying to master it.

 

Game design that compliments such manoeuvres is definitely one of the important things that should be on DE's to do list. Im thinking it would be simply amazing (and also bring back some of that initial Space Ninja feel that it once had... a feel that is to be honest covered in a lot of other stuff now, with hat wielding magicians and pirates... but anyway)...

Great ideas. 1+.

[Jinryusai]

There doesnt need to be any changes to coptering/ air melee ? why do you think that the both fight against each other?

Copter, D. melee and parkour all compliment each other.

 

It's too bad people are too lazy to do it.

 

The main parkour killer here is the dev teams lack of care for it.

 

There is however one bright woman on the dev team who accomplished this(almost-the parkour part failed her).

 

She deserve a medal for doing what pothers here in this thread cannot begin to comprehend.

 

And as for why use this or that ability when you can use D. Melee. options, choice, etc. Each ability looks and works somewhat different and can have additional effects implemented in the future. Then there is weapon choice.

 

You use those abilities because you WANT to or you don't have a heavy weapon.

[Temmron]

Copter, D. melee and parkour all compliment each other.

 

It's too bad people are too lazy to do it.

 

The main parkour killer here is the dev teams lack of care for it.

 

There is however one bright woman on the dev team who accomplished this(almost-the parkour part failed her).

 

She deserve a medal for doing what pothers here in this thread cannot begin to comprehend.

 

And as for why use this or that ability when you can use D. Melee. options, choice, etc. Each ability looks and works somewhat different and can have additional effects implemented in the future. Then there is weapon choice.

 

You use those abilities because you WANT to or you don't have a heavy weapon.

XD this is what a question mark can do instead of an exclamation mark :D

[unknow99]

Copter, D. melee and parkour all compliment each other.

 

It's too bad people are too lazy to do it.

 

The main parkour killer here is the dev teams lack of care for it.

 

There is however one bright woman on the dev team who accomplished this(almost-the parkour part failed her).

 

She deserve a medal for doing what pothers here in this thread cannot begin to comprehend.

 

And as for why use this or that ability when you can use D. Melee. options, choice, etc. Each ability looks and works somewhat different and can have additional effects implemented in the future. Then there is weapon choice.

 

You use those abilities because you WANT to or you don't have a heavy weapon.

I think that we can all applaude this bright woman for highlighting live, in front of one million+ viewers, the point of this thread. :D

 

Thank you, our dear Overlord...

 

"GEOFF, FIX IT!"

Edited November 27, 2014 by unknow99

[ThePresident777]

You can't wall run with out a wall.  If there were more unimpeded surfaces to run on then people could get around on that.

[rockscl]

Parkour could reduce enemy precision towards you,  a perfect parkouring may grant the right to dodge bullets, as for air melee, i think the momentum should be abruptly reduced after the melee strike is done

 

i remember when they introduced directional melee, it was meant to reach some enemies, not to fly around

Edited November 26, 2014 by rockscl

[unknow99]

Parkour could reduce enemy precision towards you,  a perfect parkouring may grant the right to dodge bullets, as for air melee, i think the momentum should be abruptly reduced after the melee strike is done

 

i remember when they introduced directional melee, it was meant to reach some enemies, not to fly around

They just did it, which means that they're watching this thread! :o

 

If any dev see this, please respond and say that Parkour 2.0 is indeed on the table!...(And a few words in the stealth feedback megathread won't hurt too...)

[Aure7]

Uh it's so painful  and funny at the same time to watch rebecca awkwardly getting stuck and flying off in random directions while trying to parkour in the hub... because you guessed it, there is no copter or directional melee in there. I wonder if Geoff was even thinking anything while watching it. It can't be more obvious how clunky parkour is. It's RIGHT IN THEIR FACE.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Aure7

[HolidayPi3]

Uh it's so painful  and funny at the same time to watch rebecca awkwardly getting stuck and flying off in random directions while trying to parkour in the hub... because you guessed it, there is no copter or directional melee in there. I wonder if Geoff was even thinking anything while watching it. It can't be more obvious how clunky parkour is. It's RIGHT IN THEIR FACE.

To be fair, in the devstream, they said that Parkour would be one of the first things they go over in the new year, as one of them did ask what the plans for it were while that whole thing was taking place. Hopefully 'looking over it with a fresh set of eyes' entails more than just looking at it.

We'll just have to keep being patient and keep this thread on the front when they're finally going over it.

Edited November 28, 2014 by HolidayPi3

[unknow99]

Uh it's so painful  and funny at the same time to watch rebecca awkwardly getting stuck and flying off in random directions while trying to parkour in the hub... because you guessed it, there is no copter or directional melee in there. I wonder if Geoff was even thinking anything while watching it. It can't be more obvious how clunky parkour is. It's RIGHT IN THEIR FACE.

 

To be fair, in the devstream, they said that Parkour would be one of the first things they go over in the new year, as one of them did ask what the plans for it were while that whole thing was taking place. Hopefully 'looking over it with a fresh set of eyes' entails more than just looking at it.

We'll just have to keep being patient and keep this thread on the front when they're finally going over it.

Apparently, the sparkle just went in. It's our turn to keep the fire burning now...

[ThePresident777]

I have not been inside the new hubs but I really really hope that there is a parkour highway above the pedestrian walkway.  It would be awesome fun to see and be in a swarm of flying space ninjas.  I'm thinking sci-fi city with hover/jet cars replaced by flying space ninjas.

[unknow99]

I have not been inside the new hubs but I really really hope that there is a parkour highway above the pedestrian walkway.  It would be awesome fun to see and be in a swarm of flying space ninjas.  I'm thinking sci-fi city with hover/jet cars replaced by flying space ninjas.

You can climb on the main structure in the central room, like [DE]Rebecca tried countless times (and succeeded). This isn't enough though.

[DSpite]

They just did it, which means that they're watching this thread! :o

 

If any dev see this, please respond and say that Parkour 2.0 is indeed on the table!...(And a few words in the stealth feedback megathread won't hurt too...)

 

No they did not. They went back and looked at AI shooting precision, and all the whinge threads on "the AI is now aimbotting" and decided "hey, you know what? we will throw an extra variable in with player movement speeds, so when they get sniped across the map, we can blame THEM for standing still"