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Returning Player: This Kuva Lich Business Is Overwhelmingly Convoluted


TheGreenFellow

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EDITED DISCLAIMER: I based my impression on what appears to be out-of-date information. Still convoluted, just not as annoying as I initially feared.

I mean, what the heck? Sometimes on Grineer missions a larva thing will appear that if you kill, you can spawn a Lich that chases you, and if you kill it, it gives you a weapon - that sounds simple, right?

Except that you also need mods. Special mods that only come from a certain new kind of Relic that can only be obtained in a certain new way and opened in a certain new kind of void fissure thing, and that can only be used 3 times, and also will still be used up even if they aren't the right mods.

Oh, by the way, you won't know which mods to use unless you kill heaps of enemies when the Lich spawns on you. There's trial and error...in the form of instantly dying-no-respawns(?) kind of 'error'. Great.

Oh, and what you get - and whether the Lich will even spawn? - absolutely depends on *which* Warframe you happen to be using at the start of the whole process. Meaning if you want to get certain elements of all the new Kuva variety weapons, you have to limit yourself to *only* those Warframes that correspond to what you're after. Even though you won't know when or where the Kuva larva/lich things will appear.

On top of all this, everything is RNG. What weapon you get, what 'roll' it gets on its stats - aside from the aformentioned Warframe dependency issue, it's just random. You can apparently 'merge' weapons together to mitigate this RNG effect somewhat, but that's simply extending the RNG grind.
_____

Why would I want to start engaging with this system, if it's going to be this complicated, just to be faced with RNG stacking? When did this become a good idea? Was nobody hitting the brakes on pushing this idea out into a game update?

There's already an overwhelming breadth of content in the game. Who is this system meant to appeal to? What is it for? What's the purpose? What is the thought process here?

I really do not get it.

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10 minutes ago, TheGreenFellow said:

 that can only be used 3 times, and also will still be used up even if they aren't the right mods

They are only used up when the combo is correct and you've successfully killed/captured the lich. You no longer die when executing the wrong combo. You can choose which weapon you pursue once the Kuva Larvling is downed, an image with it will appear above its head and if that's not what you want, move on. I've got a graveyard of 40 lichs now and like the system a lot. Once you get 1 copy of each mod you can kill 3-12 lichs potentially, so once you have 2 copies of each you're off to the races essentially. Understanding more about the system eases the process quite a bit, good luck!

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yes, Kuva Lichesare nonsensically convoluted and include steps that have you doing things which you already do tons of on the Solar Map, again, but in a separate Missions so as that you now need to do that same generic Mission 2, 3, 4, whaever times more than you already were.

you have to play a Mission to get Keys to play a Mission to get items from those Keys to play a Mission to get a Lich to play a wholeeee lot of the same generic Missions so you can put your items into order to Kill the Lich.
the first parts of this process are pointless and stupid because they are literally the same things we already do constantly, but on a different button to make you have to do it more than you already were. 

 

why are there Relics for this system at all? why do we have to play specific Missions to get them? why are Lich Missions the same generic Missions but on a different button to make you have to do it more than you already were?
why aren't Thralls something that appear sometimes in any Mission, and Liches being directly integrated with the Solar Map so that we don't have 3, 4, 5, 6 different clones of the exact same Missions that are literally all the same but you still have to play them each of those separate times in order to get the items that you need for this or that system.

why does so much of the 'new content' not add hardly anything to the actual game as a whole because it splits the same Missions into 2358239658252587 different versions?
the idea of Liches is cool, but most of the process is really boring and it's such an insane content island that does so not even by being totally different like Railjack or something, it does so by arbitrarily separating every Mission into yet another variant that is exactly the same as the normal Mission but separated to make your life more complicated and more of a hassle.

 

 

 

that being said, a few notes for you:

  • Larvalings don't Spawn only sometimes, if your Mission meets the Level and Faction requirements, they Spawn 100% of the time. some Gamemodes will just be significantly slower than others at getting to the point where the Larvaling will Spawn.
    • since Larvalings will Spawn reliably, you don't need to use a certain Warframe for hours on end to get the Element that you're looking for. potentially just a few minutes really.
  • Requiems don't lose a charge if you guess wrong, you don't have to worry about that.
  • Liches don't Kill us anymore when stabbing them if you haven't noticed yet - it was adjusted to where the Lich laughs at you and leaves the Mission, but doesn't Kill you for guessing the Slot Machine wrong.
  • what Weapon a Larvaling will offer you is indeed random, however if you don't want the Weapon it offers you, you can ignore it and complete (or Abort) your Mission and try again, and you'll roll for a Weapon anew.
  • merging Kuva Weapons is for progressing your Damage Bonus with the Weapon strictly positively, with another of the same Kuva Weapon. also the Element of the new Weapon will override the Element of the old if it is different.
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51 minutes ago, (XB1)DarknessZeref said:

They are only used up when the combo is correct and you've successfully killed/captured the lich. You no longer die when executing the wrong combo. You can choose which weapon you pursue once the Kuva Larvling is downed, an image with it will appear above its head and if that's not what you want, move on. I've got a graveyard of 40 lichs now and like the system a lot. Once you get 1 copy of each mod you can kill 3-12 lichs potentially, so once you have 2 copies of each you're off to the races essentially. Understanding more about the system eases the process quite a bit, good luck!

 

8 minutes ago, taiiat said:

that being said, a few notes for you:

  • Larvalings don't Spawn only sometimes, if your Mission meets the Level and Faction requirements, they Spawn 100% of the time. some Gamemodes will just be significantly slower than others at getting to the point where the Larvaling will Spawn.
    • since Larvalings will Spawn reliably, you don't need to use a certain Warframe for hours on end to get the Element that you're looking for. potentially just a few minutes really.
  • Requiems don't lose a charge if you guess wrong, you don't have to worry about that.
  • Liches don't Kill us anymore when stabbing them if you haven't noticed yet - it was adjusted to where the Lich laughs at you and leaves the Mission, but doesn't Kill you for guessing the Slot Machine wrong.
  • what Weapon a Larvaling will offer you is indeed random, however if you don't want the Weapon it offers you, you can ignore it and complete (or Abort) your Mission and try again, and you'll roll for a Weapon anew.
  • merging Kuva Weapons is for progressing your Damage Bonus with the Weapon strictly positively, with another of the same Kuva Weapon. also the Element of the new Weapon will override the Element of the old if it is different.

This is really good to know, and eases some of my concerns about whether I want to bother getting into things - thank you. Not having the death on failure, only used when it's the correct combo, consistent Larvaling spawning - all makes it sound MUCH less annoying. Guess there's a number of QOL updates that haven't made it into the wiki yet.

Is the first step to start collecting the Requiem relics via the Kuva Floods, then, to accumulate the necessary mods? I suppose there's always room for more Kuva.

And I remember reading a thing about converting the Lich, in the case it's not a desirable weapon/roll? Is that just sort of another variant on Specters and about as useful as they are, or does it serve a better purpose?

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12 minutes ago, TheGreenFellow said:

Guess there's a number of QOL updates that haven't made it into the wiki yet.

 



Is the first step to start collecting the Requiem relics via the Kuva Floods, then, to accumulate the necessary mods? I suppose there's always room for more Kuva.

And I remember reading a thing about converting the Lich, in the case it's not a desirable weapon/roll? Is that just sort of another variant on Specters and about as useful as they are, or does it serve a better purpose?

uh, which Article are you referring to? [Kuva Lich] is up to date as far as i knew, and checking it now, it looks up to date to me. it is a long Article so i won't rule out the possibility of somewhere in there the Article implying something it's not trying to say, but it looks up to date to me.
if something is wrong with the Article, feel free to point out what and where, i'll take care of it from there.

 

yes, Kuva Siphon Missions is where you will get Requiems from. technically Thralls can also drop them, ~5% IIRC, but that can't be considered to be something worth relying on since you have to be in a Lich Mission to begin with and it's a low Chance. but it's there.

you can convert a Lich instead of Killing it, if you'd rather keep it for sentimental reasons or simply don't want the Weapon, yes. however since we can always pick what Weapon we want and Valence Fusion exists, you'd be converting Liches only for sentimental reasons or if you have already maxed out the bonus on that Kuva Weapon and don't want another.
Liches currently do nothing at all other than appear in your Missions when you are either about to die or have died previously, to "rescue" you. they'll walk around for a while(somewhere between a couple minutes and maybe around 10 minutes) and shoot at hostile stuff, then take their leave. we are supposed to be able to use Liches as Railjack Crew when that gets added to the game.... sometime eventually, however.

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10 hours ago, TheGreenFellow said:

 

This is really good to know, and eases some of my concerns about whether I want to bother getting into things - thank you. Not having the death on failure, only used when it's the correct combo, consistent Larvaling spawning - all makes it sound MUCH less annoying. Guess there's a number of QOL updates that haven't made it into the wiki yet.

Is the first step to start collecting the Requiem relics via the Kuva Floods, then, to accumulate the necessary mods? I suppose there's always room for more Kuva.

And I remember reading a thing about converting the Lich, in the case it's not a desirable weapon/roll? Is that just sort of another variant on Specters and about as useful as they are, or does it serve a better purpose?

Here's tips for an ideal start Kuva Lich hunting...

Play Kuva Flood missions to gather Requiem relics, 8 should be enough (2 for each tier, more is always better)
Play Requiem Fissures PUBLIC to gather all 8 Requiem Mods
Join a group running requiem murmurs until you unlock 1-2 mods of your lich's combination
Pursue your own lich missions solo or with friends that have little murmur progress 
-Worst part-
Attempt to goad your lich out of hiding and try possible mod combinations until success

KILL VS CONVERT
KILL: You want that weapon with that element to use OR boost a current role
CONVERT: You DON'T want that weapon, want to SELL that weapon (or ephemera), the lich is POWERFUL and will serve as a worthy ally (They get converted at the rank you kill it on)

In reality you kill maybe 12 or so lichs to obtain every Kuva weapon, then convert 99.9% of all lichs as they serve as back-up, rumored Railjack crewman, a source of platinum with sales and generally hold more benefits than killing one whenever you don't care for the weapon in your inventory. In my experience, there isn't a statistically significant increase from 25%-60% elemental damage to justify hunting 3-4 completely new lichs to max weapon x.

Once you get over lichs completely, requiem relics are not useless! They have 1200 Kuva as a drop, so farming Kuva requiem Survival will net whatever Kuva you generate in-mission + taking each 1200 kuva drop from relics along the way! Good luck, and hope you have fun! 

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4 hours ago, (XB1)DarknessZeref said:

Here's tips for an ideal start Kuva Lich hunting...

Read the wiki and experiment, eventually look at RECENT guides or youtubes and ask your clanmembers.

Kuva weapons are not entry level.

Are there some irritating things left, yes mainly that larveling is still giving the weapons random instead of on a rotation system so that it can take days before your lucky to get the weapon you want or you get it first kill. Second is that the system is not premade group friendly.

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On 2020-09-30 at 10:39 PM, taiiat said:

uh, which Article are you referring to? [Kuva Lich] is up to date as far as i knew, and checking it now, it looks up to date to me. it is a long Article so i won't rule out the possibility of somewhere in there the Article implying something it's not trying to say, but it looks up to date to me.
if something is wrong with the Article, feel free to point out what and where, i'll take care of it from there.
 

yes, Kuva Siphon Missions is where you will get Requiems from. technically Thralls can also drop them, ~5% IIRC, but that can't be considered to be something worth relying on since you have to be in a Lich Mission to begin with and it's a low Chance. but it's there.

you can convert a Lich instead of Killing it, if you'd rather keep it for sentimental reasons or simply don't want the Weapon, yes. however since we can always pick what Weapon we want and Valence Fusion exists, you'd be converting Liches only for sentimental reasons or if you have already maxed out the bonus on that Kuva Weapon and don't want another.
Liches currently do nothing at all other than appear in your Missions when you are either about to die or have died previously, to "rescue" you. they'll walk around for a while(somewhere between a couple minutes and maybe around 10 minutes) and shoot at hostile stuff, then take their leave. we are supposed to be able to use Liches as Railjack Crew when that gets added to the game.... sometime eventually, however.

I can't remember; I browsed the wiki again just now based on your reply and can't find the same page again. Maybe I wound up on the wrong wiki at first, beats me...apologies!

Cheers for the info.

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