System to get a sister is so unfair

[fr4gb4ll]

22 hours ago, Kraethius said:

Just go with friends or solo then. I really don't see the problem here.

^ exactly that ^

there isn't anything else to add to it other than: if you can't even do that part alone, you certainly shouldn't hunting lichs or sisters yet.

[lhardy]

8 minutes ago, fr4gb4ll said:

^ exactly that ^

there isn't anything else to add to it other than: if you can't even do that part alone, you certainly shouldn't hunting lichs or sisters yet.

I can do that alone, but exposing a problem a lot of people could have related with granum void and how sisters are farmed, doesn't matter compared to a systems that is unfair.

[fr4gb4ll]

1 minute ago, lhardy said:

I can do that alone, but exposing a problem a lot of people could have related with granum void and how sisters are farmed, doesn't matter compared to a systems that is unfair.

you have a very different way of thinking when it comes to something being 'unfair' than i do, i guess... also if you would ask those 'lot of people' how it should be done, i bet they would tell you all those weapons should be put into their inventory, fully maxed to rank 40 already. fazit: don't give too much though on other peoples opinons in the first place since they always are biased (yes, that goes for mine here as well as any others too - but you brought that on yourself ^^)

[SenorClipClop]

The working solution to this issue is "just play solo" -- it's worked ever since the Liches were introduced in 2019. But as I always say, the ability for the player to customize their experience to avoid a certain aspect of the game does not exempt that aspect from criticism. The fact that you need to spend a special item to activate a Candidate only to have your quarry stolen by a squadmate is a letdown, honestly.

It would be more fair if whoever spent their Zenith Crown was the only Tenno who could Mercy the Candidate. That way your investment wouldn't get stolen. However, it doesn't fix the selfishness of players -- other Tenno who realize they no longer have a chance at a Sister may just quit out the mission, leaving you solo anyway.

It's kinda funny how these personal nemeses from the greed-based faction are bringing out the greed in us. Huh.

[lhardy]

11 minutes ago, fr4gb4ll said:

you have a very different way of thinking when it comes to something being 'unfair' than i do, i guess... also if you would ask those 'lot of people' how it should be done, i bet they would tell you all those weapons should be put into their inventory, fully maxed to rank 40 already. fazit: don't give too much though on other peoples opinons in the first place since they always are biased (yes, that goes for mine here as well as any others too - but you brought that on yourself ^^)

I should have written 'some' instead of 'a lot of'.

 

I just wanted to give my point of view and some feelings not experience people could feel when doing granum void to get a sister in group. 

 

Probably the worst thing I found here, and I thought I would never find again after using LOL forums, was people that thing forums opinion should represent their opinion.....but apart from that, there are a lot of people that expose their disagreement NICELY.

 

And related with weapons level, more than having level 40, It could be easier to find opinion of having sisters and liches weapons with level 30 instead of 40. But this game is free to play and the easier way to have this game alive is with formas, inventory space and deluxe skins; so level 40 weapons are necessary.

[fr4gb4ll]

On 2021-07-08 at 8:04 PM, lhardy said:

I should have written 'some' instead of 'a lot of'.

 

I just wanted to give my point of view and some feelings not experience people could feel when doing granum void to get a sister in group. 

duly noted.

On 2021-07-08 at 8:04 PM, lhardy said:

Probably the worst thing I found here, and I thought I would never find again after using LOL forums, was people that thing forums opinion should represent their opinion.....but apart from that, there are a lot of people that expose their disagreement NICELY.

not sure if i'm one of them or not (i usually try to be neutral but depending on what i commend on, it can go either way... "what goes around comes around", i guess ^^)

but lets be more specific this time (since i actually have time at hand right now):

On 2021-07-07 at 9:19 PM, lhardy said:

Spending a zenith crown and then other guy took the weapon is quite unfair. I just tried once to see If I've read correctly (and show to the rest of the players how badly the game is designed in many ways that depends in people being 'fair'-when human nature is not like that-); and then I did the mission again and use my crown so he can take a sister without spending another crown.

first off, since i guess it's only a misdescription from you, the 'other guy' don't take the weapon but only finish off the larvling (or whatever the name is for the sisters) and he/she can only do that if they don't have a sister/lich active for themself. in reality, that is rather rare since either they have one active or don't want one - mater of fact, i never, not even once, had witnessed a case of someone finishing one off in a casual game where a larvling spawned. true, that i were mostly not the 'default' nodes where we 'farm' them but other missions were they also can spawn but nevertheless... ofc, the runs were i actually was farming for usuable lichs with friends and clan mates are not in there since that were runs for that purpose only. i guess, that this happen to you only because of the sisters being new in the game and thus the amount of people who hunt for them are many and will be for a little more while too...

as for the loss of a coin, i can only say: what does it matter? for my attempts on a sister i choose the capture node on pluto (hydra, i think) and got a new coin for every run there too, so no real loss at all - even IF i had any further use for them (which i don't since i already have everything i can do/get with them). the only loss i can see here is your loss of time (which is about 3 to 5 minutes max. for such an run). in any case, like i might have mentioned already somewhere, best way to get your lich/sister started is by doing it alone (especially if you want the correct element on the futur weapon to be the one you want and not depending on whoever else there is with you).

On 2021-07-07 at 9:19 PM, lhardy said:

In my opinion, the system to get and finish (and I could include the whole process) a lich or sister is not well planned. The way to get any of those should be PERSONAL. You have to find you lich/sister and take down in an individual fight. If you do it alone (as many quests), will make It as a personal BOSS to fight and make more like is yours.

well, that is also the only real 'personal' part of the lich/sister in the whole process (ok, beside the helmet they wear as decoration ^^) the rest of the procedure is faster done in a team, not because the difficulty but for the time it takes to get the murmur farming done (which is also the more annoying part of it). the fight against the lich/sister is for many veteran players actually more easy done when alone instead of a team - especially those toxic-liches with their tendency of giving rad-procs which very often ends in killed players and pets by team mates...

beside that, i agree that the whole story lacks a bit of the personal 'vendetta' it should be. even the assassin squads are more 'personal' in this regard - which should have come to though of the DE-designer too. but ofc, that would then be a bit too much rng again or too less of a grind, depending on how they would have implemanted it. making the whole thing 'solo only' would, on the other hand, put too many players off too - even if it's 'only' the fight against the boss (which ofc one can do, at least usually for the last stage of it, if one isn't going lucky with the right combination before).

On 2021-07-07 at 9:19 PM, lhardy said:

If you like the way to spawn a CANDIDATE with zenith crown, maybe should be better using a "coin" machine near granum hand similar to how history fragments are got using crowns on the temple. Or, just spawn as many candidates as players in the mission, so you don't have to fight to get the candidate while others are getting yours after you use the coin.

i take that slotmachine idea as a joke... hopefully because that really sounds like a bad idea - not that i'm particularly found of the way is done right now but at least it makes some sense, lore-wise. as for multiple candidates, that would be a good move, IF each player get their specific one too (like i said, different player might want different elements and therefore run with specific frames) and one the correct player can finish off the candidate... would also be a nice way of extra kuva in the case of liches ^^)

On 2021-07-07 at 9:19 PM, lhardy said:

Lastly, I think that the way to take down murmurs have improved a lot this update and now is what It should be, but that way to find the requiems for your lich/sisters doesn't feel as a personal boss for you. In my opinion, having missions with nightmare and sortie conditions that are forces in SOLO mode would be better to feel as your are finding information for your boss. I understand that this way doesn't allow people to play together to fight liches, but the actual way are 4 people against a lich that should be difficult for 1 person. It would be nice that we could have another way to fight liches and find their requiems (and have 2 different ways and more variety in the game). The SOLO mode could be forced in SP with sortie and nightmare conditions that unlocks a requiem every time you do that mission.

yes, the murmur farming always was the least fun of it all and everything that lessen that grind is most welcome. as for the 'personal' thing again, i also would have liked they made it not so generic as it is and beside the murmur farming (or the way of getting requim mods in the first place) i always rather fought the lich in solo, especially the final encounter. on the other hand though lichs and sisters now too give out quite a bit of murmurs when battled (regardless of the stage and if the are defeated or not), also the kuva from them is nice to have and thus teamplay isn't so bad at all for that part.

altogether, i can think of some other ways DE could have made the whole thing a bit more the personal nemesis-fight it was praised as by them - and most of those ideas would even be possible with the existing game contend already (and likely as time consuming too, but that's a different story). in the end, they made their designe choice for it and it could have been better but also far worse then it is right now. a bit more diversity would do wonders though and would lessen the grind-tiredness that comes with such things.

making solo only sure isn't the way but ofc, you can (and should be able to) do it this way - it's only that it takes so much longer this way and i often find it more boring when doing it alone. the first part (the candidate hunting) and the final showdown though i rather DO alone - out of already mentioned reasons. and yes, the whole lich/sister thing should be possible in most other game modes like nightmare and steel path too - i really don't get why DE didn't made this an option... but forcing it might only annoy a lot of players.

On 2021-07-07 at 9:19 PM, lhardy said:

Imaging a spy mission, only secondary and no energy in SOLO mode. That could be difficult for many players and an interested way for older players to do a type of mission faster but has an increased difficulty. You could introduce new audios that explain your lich/sister life while you find the requiem and WHY is that requiem and no other one for that lich/sister. Adding that explanation would increase warframe LORE and make it more consistent.

i like the idea of giving the player the option to specific missions to, for example, bypassing the murmur-farming procedure by doing some more difficult missions like that (though i guess a spy run without energy isn't really hard to do, even on lua ^^) and something like the idea of those (sadly) forgotten assault-missions (like they tried on the kuva fortress) with diffent objective in it and added 'conditions' and level of enemies might do the trick here.

as for the extra lore, it might be nice to have this but i guess that would be far too much work for DE to do in reasonable time, especially because of the rather random nature of the whole thing - it would also lead to make it too easy for players to "guess" the requims if the background story should make any sense at all...

as for you ideas about how to make the missions more interesting (without going into details since this post is already far too long at this point ^^):

most are good but some have the problem of already not working very good in the game as they are (first line would be the 'stealth' part that DE never seems to get the hang on). some ideas are unlikey to work with the current game too, even though they would be nice to have (not only in lich/sister missions but in general too).

but as feeding ideas to the devs, i guess this thread did its job (really, sometimes i think the 'lable' of free2play means we players have to do the whole brainstorming and get paid for it and the choice of what actually can be done and the boring part of coding it is left to DE ^^)

[White_Matter]

Guys how do you create a sister ?

I created my first one when it came out with MESA but now I can't create any. I've tried with Saryn and Atlas because I want the toxin affinity. Tried exterminate and capture missions on phobos and neptune. 

So I'm suspecting that I'm missing a step here.

Are there any other prerequisites other than going in to the granum void and reaching the 1st wave ?

[lhardy]

12 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

Guys how do you create a sister ?

I created my first one when it came out with MESA but now I can't create any. I've tried with Saryn and Atlas because I want the toxin affinity. Tried exterminate and capture missions on phobos and neptune. 

So I'm suspecting that I'm missing a step here.

Are there any other prerequisites other than going in to the granum void and reaching the 1st wave ?

Using a zenith coin and reach first stage out of 3. Then, It should appear after a few seconds. Some people above this thread discovered me the capture node in pluto, that I forgot It was a good capture to get zenith coin, as I used to play the phobos node for granum farm and then I started sister farm there too.

 

If you can't create a sister, let me 5 minutes to enter the game and I can help you.

[White_Matter]

11 minutes ago, lhardy said:

Using a zenith coin and reach first stage out of 3. Then, It should appear after a few seconds. Some people above this thread discovered me the capture node in pluto, that I forgot It was a good capture to get zenith coin, as I used to play the phobos node for granum farm and then I started sister farm there too.

 

If you can't create a sister, let me 5 minutes to enter the game and I can help you.

Well I managed to create 2(atlas and mesa) one after another but both of them with nightmare tokens.

Regular tokens don't seem to create it for me.

[lhardy]

34 minutes ago, fr4gb4ll said:

duly noted.

not sure if i'm one of them or not (i usually try to be neutral but depending on what i commend on, it can go either way... "what goes around comes around", i guess ^^)

but lets be more specific this time (since i actually have time at hand right now):

first off, since i guess it's only a misdescription from you, the 'other guy' don't take the weapon but only finish off the larvling (or whatever the name is for the sisters) and he/she can only do that if they don't have a sister/lich active for themself. in reality, that is rather rare since either they have one active or don't want one - mater of fact, i never, not even once, had witnessed a case of someone finishing one off in a casual game where a larvling spawned. true, that i were mostly not the 'default' nodes where we 'farm' them but other missions were they also can spawn but nevertheless... ofc, the runs were i actually was farming for usuable lichs with friends and clan mates are not in there since that were runs for that purpose only. i guess, that this happen to you only because of the sisters being new in the game and thus the amount of people who hunt for them are many and will be for a little more while too...

as for the loss of a coin, i can only say: what does it matter? for my attempts on a sister i choose the capture node on pluto (hydra, i think) and got a new coin for every run there too, so no real loss at all - even IF i had any further use for them (which i don't since i already have everything i can do/get with them). the only loss i can see here is your loss of time (which is about 3 to 5 minutes max. for such an run). in any case, like i might have mentioned already somewhere, best way to get your lich/sister started is by doing it alone (especially if you want the correct element on the futur weapon to be the one you want and not depending on whoever else there is with you).

well, that is also the only real 'personal' part of the lich/sister in the whole process (ok, beside the helmet they wear as decoration ^^) the rest of the procedure is faster done in a team, not because the difficulty but for the time it takes to get the murmur farming done (which is also the more annoying part of it). the fight against the lich/sister is for many veteran players actually more easy done when alone instead of a team - especially those toxic-liches with their tendency of giving rad-procs which very often ends in killed players and pets by team mates...

beside that, i agree that the whole story lacks a bit of the personal 'vendetta' it should be. even the assassin squads are more 'personal' in this regard - which should have come to though of the DE-designer too. but ofc, that would then be a bit too much rng again or too less of a grind, depending on how they would have implemanted it. making the whole thing 'solo only' would, on the other hand, put too many players off too - even if it's 'only' the fight against the boss (which ofc one can do, at least usually for the last stage of it, if one isn't going lucky with the right combination before).

i take that slotmachine idea as a joke... hopefully because that really sounds like a bad idea - not that i'm particularly found of the way is done right now but at least it makes some sense, lore-wise. as for multiple candidates, that would be a good move, IF each player get their specific one too (like i said, different player might want different elements and therefore run with specific frames) and one the correct player can finish off the candidate... would also be a nice way of extra kuva in the case of liches ^^)

yes, the murmur farming always was the least fun of it all and everything that lessen that grind is most welcome. as for the 'personal' thing again, i also would have liked they made it not so generic as it is and beside the murmur farming (or the way of getting requim mods in the first place) i always rather fought the lich in solo, especially the final encounter. on the other hand though lichs and sisters now too give out quite a bit of murmurs when battled (regardless of the stage and if the are defeated or not), also the kuva from them is nice to have and thus teamplay isn't so bad at all for that part.

altogether, i can think of some other ways DE could have made the whole thing a bit more the personal nemesis-fight it was praised as by them - and most of those ideas would even be possible with the existing game contend already (and likely as time consuming too, but that's a different story). in the end, they made their designe choice for it and it could have been better but also far worse then it is right now. a bit more diversity would do wonders though and would lessen the grind-tiredness that comes with such things.

making solo only sure isn't the way but ofc, you can (and should be able to) do it this way - it's only that it takes so much longer this way and i often find it more boring when doing it alone. the first part (the candidate hunting) and the final showdown though i rather DO alone - out of already mentioned reasons. and yes, the whole lich/sister thing should be possible in most other game modes like nightmare and steel path too - i really don't get why DE didn't made this an option... but forcing it might only annoy a lot of players.

i like the idea of giving the player the option to specific missions to, for example, bypassing the murmur-farming procedure by doing some more difficult missions like that (though i guess a spy run without energy isn't really hard to do, even on lua ^^) and something like the idea of those (sadly) forgotten assault-missions (like they tried on the kuva fortress) with diffent objective in it and added 'conditions' and level of enemies might do the trick here.

as for the extra lore, it might be nice to have this but i guess that would be far too much work for DE to do in reasonable time, especially because of the rather random nature of the whole thing - it would also lead to make it too easy for players to "guess" the requims if the background story should make any sense at all...

as for you ideas about how to make the missions more interesting (without going into details since this post is already far too long at this point ^^):

most are good but some have the problem of already not working very good in the game as they are (first line would be the 'stealth' part that DE never seems to get the hang on). some ideas are unlikey to work with the current game too, even though they would be nice to have (not only in lich/sister missions but in general too).

but as feeding ideas to the devs, i guess this thread did its job (really, sometimes i think the 'lable' of free2play means we players have to do the whole brainstorming and get paid for it and the choice of what actually can be done and the boring part of coding it is left to DE ^^)

You are those nice guys :) that expose their ideas and write arguments when exposing your ideas, that I appreciate a lot.

 

Refering to the "slotmachine" It was just to bypass the granum void part. The example I wanted to expose is: 

In this case, you get the codex entry and decoration for the coin you use, but you are right, having this system for a bigger one It won't be nice for "game's health".

 

I started using pluto node and It is more confortable that phobos one, thanks so much. Related with sisters, right now It is more regarded going in group to get hound parts, as you also get from your allies sister, something I dissagree a bit, but It has a good point to farm faster and reward more people going in groups.

 

Related with brainstorming part, as you have pointed well that players feedback is necessary in free2play games, having a feedback ideas subforum would be really nice, as I don't think DE should read general subforum.

Finally, I would like to express my gratitud for your time spent wirting this message :). I appreciate so much.

[lhardy]

7 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

Well I managed to create 2(atlas and mesa) one after another but both of them with nightmare tokens.

Regular tokens don't seem to create it for me.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Granum_Crown

 

Is nightmare the light blue coin?

[White_Matter]

4 minutes ago, lhardy said:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Granum_Crown

 

Is nightmare the light blue coin?

Yes sorry I don't know why I called it nightmate it is zenith.

[lhardy]

1 minute ago, White_Matter said:

Yes sorry I don't know why I called it nightmate it is zenith.

Zenith is the one suppose to use to spawn sister. I'm glad to hear that you found the correct coin and being able to spawn sisters :)