System to get a sister is so unfair

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

Just now, zorok34 said:

nope, it changed, it used to be rank 1, it's now rank 3. rank 1 would be fine

Seeing as how I literally got a sister 20 minutes ago, no, it did not change

[zorok34]

Just now, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

Seeing as how I literally got a sister 20 minutes ago, no, it did not change

the last 10 missions i've run disagree

[(PSN)Lollybomb]

2 minutes ago, zorok34 said:

the last 10 missions i've run disagree

Have you been running in a squad?  Have you been using Zenith crowns?

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

1 minute ago, zorok34 said:

the last 10 missions i've run disagree

Are you using a zenith crown? Are you actually getting level one? From your current replies so far it wouldnt surprise me if you were lacking basic knowledge of the systems

[Zimzala]

7 minutes ago, zorok34 said:

when it takes over an hour to even SPAWN the thing that you then need to go farm and then eventually fight, the system is broken, period.

In Your Opinion.

Nothing more, that's just your opinion.

And nothing to do with 'fair'...

Some of us happen to have a thing called patience. Some of us don't think everything in life has to occur in 'under an hour'.

You simply think, like so very many gamers, that YOU know 'better', when you just have an opinion based on your level of (im)patience, nothing more.

If you think it's actually broken, why would you even play it?

You have the power to NOT do things you do not like...you know that right?

You know this is just a game for ephemeral Entertainment, right?

[MqToasty]

26 minutes ago, zorok34 said:

solo is impossible since they changed it requiring you to get a rank 3

While I do not know if it was changed or not, getting rank 3 solo is actually far from impossible -- it's actually very easy if you know what you're doing in the Granum Void.  In fact, I would argue that it's easier to do solo than in a public group because the rank requirements increase with each additional player (who may or may not know what they are doing).

Now in response to the OP, I only once accidentally went lich larvling hunting while set to public.  The other random player was faster than I was, killed the larvling and left without spawning a lich.  That was when I realized that lich spawning (and now sister spawning) is meant for solo-only, and have not made the same mistake again.  Set your game to solo when you want to spawn a nemesis.  That's the best way to do it.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

3 hours ago, lhardy said:

pending a zenith crown and then other guy took the weapon is quite unfair. I just tried once to see If I've read correctly (and show to the rest of the players how badly the game is designed in many ways that depends in people being 'fair'-when human nature is not like that-); a

always try to assume the scummiest tactic a human can do at a particular time, and then work your way up from there. that way you won't be surprised. solo is always a better option as long as you're capable enough to complete the mission yourself.

3 hours ago, lhardy said:

just spawn as many candidates as players in the mission, so you don't have to fight to get the candidate while others are getting yours after you use the coin.

or just go solo.

3 hours ago, lhardy said:

It can be nice to have a few week point you have to shoot to allow you hit him,

the head is a weak point on Liches, as it is on all enemies. headshot multipliers are a thing for a reason; shoot more accurately, deal more damage.

3 hours ago, lhardy said:

In my opinion, having missions with nightmare and sortie conditions that are forces in SOLO mode would be better to feel as your are finding information for your boss.

nobody is stopping you from forcing yourself to solo. why take away the option of groups from people who prefer it? I'm a mostly solo player, but I wouldn't take away options to group up, Warframe is a co-op game.

3 hours ago, lhardy said:

maging a spy mission, only secondary and no energy in SOLO mode.

that's not hard at all, that's just two arbitrary restrictions that don't make anything harder for me at all: I know how to do all the vaults without needing invis ( thoguh it's obviously slower), so energy means nothing. secondary only? Epitaph can one-shot most fodder enemeis at a distance with ease. it would take almost the same amount of time as a Spy Mission with no restrictions, but yet I'll have less fun due to a restricted loadout.

 

[lhardy]

9 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

always try to assume the scummiest tactic a human can do at a particular time, and then work your way up from there. that way you won't be surprised. solo is always a better option as long as you're capable enough to complete the mission yourself.

or just go solo.

the head is a weak point on Liches, as it is on all enemies. headshot multipliers are a thing for a reason; shoot more accurately, deal more damage.

nobody is stopping you from forcing yourself to solo. why take away the option of groups from people who prefer it? I'm a mostly solo player, but I wouldn't take away options to group up, Warframe is a co-op game.

that's not hard at all, that's just two arbitrary restrictions that don't make anything harder for me at all: I know how to do all the vaults without needing invis ( thoguh it's obviously slower), so energy means nothing. secondary only? Epitaph can one-shot most fodder enemeis at a distance with ease. it would take almost the same amount of time as a Spy Mission with no restrictions, but yet I'll have less fun due to a restricted loadout.

 

I know that I can do any mission in solo and It is what I do to get kuva weapon.  But my point It is not doing solo murmurs things, that are a bit boring for me and in SOLO mode there are lower number of murmurs in the same missions, or at least It used to be.... I do not play so much that game mode.

 

And also, I proposed a second option for other type of players to find requiem combinations by doing HARD missions (for you boring) and the actual murmur system.

 

My entire post was around the fact that liches are supose to be your nemeses, and how the actual systems doesn't feel like It.

 

The actual update, that It should be released with kuva liches, makes the lich system much better than before, making you to fight in RJ against the lich, but It has nothing special (only removing 3 parazon parts).

 

And the mission, It was just an example of what It could be. It might be harder adding elemental zones in the map based on lich element; so toxin would create toxin clouds...or something like that; but I know that a co-op game needs that component in farming.

[Kraethius]

2 hours ago, zorok34 said:

solo is impossible since they changed it requiring you to get a rank 3

I tested it and like others already said in this thread rank 1 works just fine. Either you're doing something wrong or you've encountered a bug.

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

3 hours ago, zorok34 said:

nope, it changed, it used to be rank 1, it's now rank 3. rank 1 would be fine

I'm assuming that you're saying the wrong thing. By "rank 3" you mean using a Zenith Crown? Because you do not need to get anything more than 25 kills if you are doing a Zenith Crown solo.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

4 hours ago, zorok34 said:

when it takes over an hour to even SPAWN the thing that you then need to go farm and then eventually fight, the system is broken, period.

No, it's called a game mode. In a single day, you can get multiple weapons. Seriously guys, stop they bloody whining! 

[(PSN)thowed]

Literally created spawned two sisters solo last night and one was with Mag using a melee weapon.  I honestly don't see what all the fuss is about.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

WAAAAAHHHH I have to put in effort...

[(XBOX)CI shadow2397]

8 hours ago, lhardy said:

The system to get sisters (and liches too) is so unfair.

Spending a zenith crown and then other guy took the weapon is quite unfair. I just tried once to see If I've read correctly (and show to the rest of the players how badly the game is designed in many ways that depends in people being 'fair'-when human nature is not like that-); and then I did the mission again and use my crown so he can take a sister without spending another crown.

 

In my opinion, the system to get and finish (and I could include the whole process) a lich or sister is not well planned. The way to get any of those should be PERSONAL. You have to find you lich/sister and take down in an individual fight. If you do it alone (as many quests), will make It as a personal BOSS to fight and make more like is yours.

 

If you like the way to spawn a CANDIDATE with zenith crown, maybe should be better using a "coin" machine near granum hand similar to how history fragments are got using crowns on the temple. Or, just spawn as many candidates as players in the mission, so you don't have to fight to get the candidate while others are getting yours after you use the coin.

 

Secondly, final boss is nice that is in RJ, but It should be a personal fight, like a boss. A bit of strategy but not as unfair as lech kril or vay hek (those bosses make you shoot your own feet when farming for their drops). It can be nice to have a few week point you have to shoot to allow you hit him, but those points not scalating with level. In the opposite side, that hp and armor increase as normally in the main body.

 

Lastly, I think that the way to take down murmurs have improved a lot this update and now is what It should be, but that way to find the requiems for your lich/sisters doesn't feel as a personal boss for you. In my opinion, having missions with nightmare and sortie conditions that are forces in SOLO mode would be better to feel as your are finding information for your boss. I understand that this way doesn't allow people to play together to fight liches, but the actual way are 4 people against a lich that should be difficult for 1 person. It would be nice that we could have another way to fight liches and find their requiems (and have 2 different ways and more variety in the game). The SOLO mode could be forced in SP with sortie and nightmare conditions that unlocks a requiem every time you do that mission.

Imaging a spy mission, only secondary and no energy in SOLO mode. That could be difficult for many players and an interested way for older players to do a type of mission faster but has an increased difficulty. You could introduce new audios that explain your lich/sister life while you find the requiem and WHY is that requiem and no other one for that lich/sister. Adding that explanation would increase warframe LORE and make it more consistent.

 

 

Think Ihardy think why for solo missions for lich/sister missions when you can switch to Solo mode already to begin with. That button will outlast every single casual quitter out there. What will you have after 500 forums posts?!

[vegetosayajin]

4 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

WAAAAAHHHH I have to put in effort...

gaem too hard pls make ez T_T

[(PSN)max141064]

9 hours ago, zorok34 said:

nope, it changed, it used to be rank 1, it's now rank 3. rank 1 would be fine

Ehm....no.

[(PSN)max141064]

11 hours ago, lhardy said:

In my opinion, the system to get and finish (and I could include the whole process) a lich or sister is not well planned. The way to get any of those should be PERSONAL. You have to find you lich/sister and take down in an individual fight. If you do it alone (as many quests), will make It as a personal BOSS to fight and make more like is yours.

 

8 hours ago, lhardy said:

But my point It is not doing solo murmurs things, that are a bit boring for me and in SOLO mode there are lower number of murmurs in the same missions, or at least It used to be...

Wasn't it supposed to be a PERSONAL thing? 

THE MEMES OF IT ALL.

[Morteno]

11 hours ago, lhardy said:

 then I did the mission again and use my crown so he can take a sister without spending another crown.

Fair complaint. You spent the currency, you should get the thing. Maybe there could be a system to "pass" on it, allowing others in the group to get it, but the way we know DE, that is not going to happen.

So, lock it to the one who spent the coin, like kuva dudes are locked to the one who they spawned for.

Having it like this, where everyone can take it - specially with only 1 using a coin - opens up two cans of S#&$. It would be less of a problem if everyone had to pony up a coin, like razorback and fomorian, but that would still suck on the 'who gets it' front.

Personally not logged in since the update, I am not putting up with the plethora of bugs, deliberate or otherwise. Which I thank you guys for keep pointing out, keep up the good work.

btw: anyone else getting Las Vegas slotmachine / one-armed-bandit associations? Put a coin in the granum slot-machine for a random corpus hag, until one pops up with the 3-bars jackpot. It's not exactly subtle.

[lhardy]

4 hours ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

 

Wasn't it supposed to be a PERSONAL thing? 

THE MEMES OF IT ALL.

English is not my native language and I may express without the correct words.

Maybe I should have said INDIVIDUAL instead of solo, that could be better to express the personal thing a lich should be.

 

Many of you have said: "just play in the actual solo mode", and I could, but murmur system is boring and It doesn't explain why you find the requiem mode just killing those enemies.

 

Furthermore, expressing your ideas in a mocked way to get the easy applause from other people, that are agree with you and how the actual systmes works, denotes how you are.

[lhardy]

4 hours ago, Morteno said:

btw: anyone else getting Las Vegas slotmachine / one-armed-bandit associations? Put a coin in the granum slot-machine for a random corpus hag, until one pops up with the 3-bars jackpot. It's not exactly subtle.

XD

 

At least this update is not as broken as RJ rework. There a lot visual bugs that doesn't affect the actual gameplay, but there are others critical as always. Hope this time they can fix those before next patch, that It should be at the end of this month, 2 weeks after tennocon.

 

There is a good change with valence fusion, that you should be able to choose the element of the weapon, but I have to try It to confirm the change.

 

[(PSN)max141064]

14 minutes ago, lhardy said:

Many of you have said: "just play in the actual solo mode", and I could, but murmur system is boring and It doesn't explain why you find the requiem mode just killing those enemies.

It just doesn't make sense. you want it to be PERSONAL or INDIVIDUAL but as soon as you have to farm murmur you want to co-op it? 

double standards, much? 

16 minutes ago, lhardy said:

Furthermore, expressing your ideas in a mocked way to get the easy applause from other people, that are agree with you and how the actual systmes works, denotes how you are.

Mind you, i didn't insult you. i was and am just pointing out the things that do not make sense. 

[lhardy]

51 minutes ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

It just doesn't make sense. you want it to be PERSONAL or INDIVIDUAL but as soon as you have to farm murmur you want to co-op it? 

double standards, much? 

 

That is why I express the idea to have a different way to find out requiems that doesn't involve murmurs.

 

The idea of having a different way to lich system, that is similar, but simple, to Nemesis system in Shadow of Mordor; would express better the idea of  having YOUR lich, better than going 4 against any lich and its murmurs.

 

And furthermore, how is it possible to find a requiem of your lich by killing others murmurs? (as a Lore question)

[Tsukinoki]

16 hours ago, lhardy said:

The system to get sisters (and liches too) is so unfair.

Spending a zenith crown and then other guy took the weapon is quite unfair. I just tried once to see If I've read correctly (and show to the rest of the players how badly the game is designed in many ways that depends in people being 'fair'-when human nature is not like that-); and then I did the mission again and use my crown so he can take a sister without spending another crown.

16 hours ago, Redfeather75 said:

Thank you for the warning. I'll refuse to use coins in groups. It sucks, but that is all I can do I guess.

4 hours ago, Morteno said:

Having it like this, where everyone can take it - specially with only 1 using a coin - opens up two cans of S#&$. It would be less of a problem if everyone had to pony up a coin, like razorback and fomorian, but that would still suck on the 'who gets it' front.

And here is one thing you seem to all be conveniently ignoring/forgetting:
If you run the granuum zenith void on Pluto then you get refunded your coin in the same mission.

Unless you're going through the mission fast enough that the coin holder isn't spawning then you aren't losing the coin as you're getting it back, and usually right after you leave the void as well.

I've farmed for multiple sisters so far and my zenith coin total has never gone down, due to the corpus missions I'm running at the level the lich forces them at I always end a hunt with more zenith coins than I started.

FURTHER this is the exact issue wit spawning a kuva larva, isn't it?  After all anyone can just run forwards and kill that larva making it so that you can't get it....and I don't see any complaint about that happening.
I mean its not hard to solo a sister spawn, just like its not hard to solo a larva spawn, and if you do it in a group you have to face the reality that someone could just grab it before you can.

16 hours ago, Battle.Mage said:

this is not a mission that i can restart without any problems! this is a difficult mission where key is needed !!!

Few things:
-It's not a hard mission.  Even ignoring obvious cheese its not a hard mission.  Getting rank 1 is a walk in the park most of the time if you're actually geared up for the mission you're doing.
-The game literally hands you the key you need in the same mission that requires the key.  There is absolutely no reason to ever "lose" a zenith crown considering that the coin holders usually spawn after you leave the granuum void.

If you're having problems with the specters look at your loadout and bring things to kill them.
And if you're really having problems just bring the Xoris as its charged throws instantly kill the specters in the void....this alone allows any frame to easily get to rank 1, especially if you free a solaris member for an extra 20 seconds if you need more time to get to the minim kill total.

16 hours ago, lhardy said:

<snip>

My question is simple:
Why do you want the system to become just another "Do everything solo with absolutely no way to do it with friends!!!!!"

I mean I've actually loved how they made the system easier to do with friends.  I usually play with one other player pretty consistently and its nice that we can now go through the same planets at the same time and both of us are making progress towards the confrontation at the end...and then we can fight both of our liches in a single mission.  Its actually nice that we aren't told "Yeah, do this on your own unless the stars align and your lich decides to go to the same planet...."

Further this idea:

16 hours ago, lhardy said:

The SOLO mode could be forced in SP with sortie and nightmare conditions that unlocks a requiem every time you do that mission.

Would be way too easy.
It doesn't matter if the enemies are level 250.
It doesn't matter if there is a nightmare or sortie enhancement on the level.
Doing one mission that takes at most 2 minutes to get a full requiem is way too easy....and you would probably immediately complain that you then have to farm the nodes in order to get your lich to spawn so you could test out the order.

And while you may think "Nightmare spy with no energy" is hard...I can just take an Inaros and get through those missions without ever noticing the no energy part, or the high damage, or anything else really.....just like I do currently whenever I have to run a spy mission actually.

[Lullypumpsie]

SOLO - Puto - Hydra

Use hand, spawn sister (get detron again, ignore her); do objective, kill grandpa and take Zenith coin back.

Also, inexperienced players may face the challenge of completing a hand test. In this case, you should check with WIKI, see what elemental effect you need and the list of which Warframe it gives, and then check with your equipment and general skills to identify the most effective one for completing the test.

[lhardy]

45 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

And here is one thing you seem to all be conveniently ignoring/forgetting:
If you run the granuum zenith void on Pluto then you get refunded your coin in the same mission.

Unless you're going through the mission fast enough that the coin holder isn't spawning then you aren't losing the coin as you're getting it back, and usually right after you leave the void as well.

I've farmed for multiple sisters so far and my zenith coin total has never gone down, due to the corpus missions I'm running at the level the lich forces them at I always end a hunt with more zenith coins than I started.

FURTHER this is the exact issue wit spawning a kuva larva, isn't it?  After all anyone can just run forwards and kill that larva making it so that you can't get it....and I don't see any complaint about that happening.

I mean its not hard to solo a sister spawn, just like its not hard to solo a larva spawn, and if you do it in a group you have to face the reality that someone could just grab it before you can.

I don't like kuva larva either, but It is easier and faster that sister system. Kuva larva can be done in less than 1:30 or even under 60 seconds in capture mission. Due to granum void nature, you will have to spend more time than grineer one. Granum void+treasurer+capture. So 30 seconds or more from granum void+60 capture mission + treasurer to get coin back (30-210 seconds, as 90 are already counted) =So around 120-300 seconds to when a sister compared to 60-90 lich.

 

It is not hard to spawn a sister, I think I have not said that, I just said that the actual system is unfair. If you go to granum void, you will still try to get the most amount of resources possible to avoid going again or get some platinum selling weapon parts.

 

45 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Why do you want the system to become just another "Do everything solo with absolutely no way to do it with friends!!!!!"

 

 

I wanted to have another way to find our requiems, not to change, as many players like the actual system. I also appreciate that the systems became easier and less boring to do. The idea I'm exposing I already have it before sisters of parvus granum, but never exposed until yesterday.

 

45 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

 

Further this idea:

Would be way too easy.
It doesn't matter if the enemies are level 250.
It doesn't matter if there is a nightmare or sortie enhancement on the level.
Doing one mission that takes at most 2 minutes to get a full requiem is way too easy....and you would probably immediately complain that you then have to farm the nodes in order to get your lich to spawn so you could test out the order.

And while you may think "Nightmare spy with no energy" is hard...I can just take an Inaros and get through those missions without ever noticing the no energy part, or the high damage, or anything else really.....just like I do currently whenever I have to run a spy mission actually.

Adding just a few things of sortie and nightmare would not make it enough harder, It was just an idea to make it harder.

 

The actual idea I had for the last few months involves;

1.- No waypoints, so you have to explore every zone to find out the mission

2.- More than a type of mission (a combination): having some spy and then it converts to defense that console while that information is sent to ordis, so It can figures it out and tell you the requiem or different type of combinations

3.- No resurrection available, as arbitrations. So it becomes harder.

4.-Solo mode, so any mistake can make you loose that mission

5.-High level and extra conditions as radiation, cold...... so you have to prepare a bit before going to that mission.

6.-Maybe a single console won't give you the information for 1 requiem, but only a part of it (bigger than old murmurs and similar to the new amount).

    6.-2. In spy one, you will have to due more than one without cyphers, while enemies will still explore the zone if you have destroyed a camera of any enemy has                     spotted you. If that happens, timer will start but at lower timer, 15 secons, for example. If you weren't able to extract all the information from that console, you               will have to get out of the mission while enemy start coming with harder enemies as eximus (or even new ones) and sabotage conditions.

     6.-3, In a different way, when you make it succesfull, you can have the option to sabotage that ship (if it was a ship mission) and get an extra bonus by doing that.

7.- Related with the point of having more than a type of mission, after the spy one, you may have to find the main ship console to hack It and being able to send that encrypted information to ordis as spy zone was only to bypass the firewall, and then the mission becomes a defense one.

    7.-1 So, you can control the time needed for each requiem by exploring different type of missions at the same time

    7.-2 Furthermore, doing some part in silence or making noise, can make the mission easier or harder and change the amount of a timer or blocking any way to get any information if enemies destroy the crucial information and you have to go directly to the exit without any progress as that type of mission required to kill enemies without setting alarms on.