The State of AFK Leeching In Arbitrations.

[(PSN)Wolf_Autopsy]

The state of afk leeching in arbitrations is starting to frankly get a bit ridiculous. It's gotten to the point where every second arbitration there is one member who is AFKing throughout the entirety/majority of the mission. As somebody who thoroughly enjoys arbitrations and loves where they are at currently, this is starting to really grind my gears. There really needs to be a better mechanism for automatically booting these players, and most definitely needs to be a distinct reporting option for Leeching. At the moment, the closest category I could think of to report these guys is under the "Griefing" tag.

I'm fully aware that there is a mechanism in place that does not give out the arbitration rewards (ie. endo, arcanes, etc.) if a person is afk. The truth is, the majority of players who grind arbitrations consistently are there for the vitus. If you afk on a defense mission, you can very easily justify losing out on all the endo and arcanes, and be satisfied with receiving even a portion of the vitus drops. At the end of the day, this has less to do with the rewards that these people are receiving, but rather the sheer principle of it all. These afkers usually die, and become a burden to the entire team who must now debuff themselves and risk death to revive this person. Even if you know they are afk and do not wish to revive them, in the chaos of the battle you are very likely to accidently pick up a coin, at which point your hand is forced and you might as well revive them to remove these debuffs.

Even if you notice this and decide to leave, you are essentially punished...because now you must wait for the next arbitration on the top of the hour. The honorable players are essentially getting punished too; I'm sure many of you who grind arbis know exactly what i speak of. You open your navigation, see that juicy hydron defense arbitration, pop your blessing, and get ready for a nice 1 hour vitus farm...only to see an afker, and your team leave at wave 5-10. The next few arbis might be the absolutely terrible mission types/tiles (ie. infested salvage and defection....really DE? why are these options). Since there is a level of RNG to the arbitration mission, and good tiles are SIGNIFICANTLY better than the mediocre ones, Myself and many other players are getting punished for absolutely no reason.

 

Potential solutions:

a) automatic boot from the mission with ALL rewards forfeited if the player is AFK for a period of time; HOWEVER, this would punish players who are not attempting to leech, but may need to go to the washroom, answer a call, what have you. Life does happen, and if a teammate indicates this in the chat, I have no problem keeping them alive while they sort out their business in a prompt manner.

b) reporting option SPECIFICALLY for leeching. Start giving out multiple day bans to these players to deter them from attempting this behaviour.

c) Overhaul the arbitration mission system, ie. make it possible to re-enter an arbitration as many times as we want in that hour, or give us MULTIPLE arbitration mission options in an hour, so if we are forced to leave one, we have other options to keep playing the game.

 

As a seasoned arbitration veteran, one who specifically caters his build to facilitate the objective and keep his team alive, I'm getting tired of it. I will gladly revive an MR8 player who is continuously dying, give them build advice after the mission if they ask, teach them the ropes etc....but this, this is where I draw the line. Please respond if you are also frustrated with this behaviour. I doubt anything will be done as DE have other 'priorities' in mind usually, but at the very least I needed to vent and see how many others are as fed up as me.

[taiiat]

i guess i'm not all that surprised when Arbitrations, like farming Steel Essence, is pretty much directly incentivized as something you do 99% AFK because it's basically just standing around waiting for the alt-Credits that you need to get stuff.

if the content wasn't as boring that would also have an impact on Players being willing to participate.

[BlackAce]

This isn't something that is exclusive to arbitration. On other long running missions and modes this is not uncommon. The only thing you can do is to report them through the support system. Don't forget to take as many evidence as you can.

Yes it is tedious especially with how many of them are out there but it's better than nothing. I've reported this kind of case a few times and all of the responses were fast.

The next best thing you can do is a premade squad. Public matchmaking in any online games is always unpredictable. You will never know what kind of players you are going to get.

[(PSN)Wolf_Autopsy]

5 minutes ago, taiiat said:

i guess i'm not all that surprised when Arbitrations, like farming Steel Essence, is pretty much directly incentivized as something you do 99% AFK because it's basically just standing around waiting for the alt-Credits that you need to get stuff.

if the content wasn't as boring that would also have an impact on Players being willing to participate.

Arbitrations are a constantly rotating mission type. They are the hardest content simply because your abilities mean nothing if you cannot survive and consistently kill drones. It is also the only mode that you cannot be easily revived.

 

Sorry mate, but if you think this "boredom" justifies the afking, you are surely part of the problem.

[(PSN)Wolf_Autopsy]

4 minutes ago, acevezwing said:

This isn't something that is exclusive to arbitration. On other long running missions and modes this is not uncommon. The only thing you can do is to report them through the support system. Don't forget to take as many evidence as you can.

Yes it is tedious especially with how many of them are out there but it's better than nothing. I've reported this kind of case a few times and all of the responses were fast.

The next best thing you can do is a premade squad. Public matchmaking in any online games is always unpredictable. You will never know what kind of players you are going to get.

This is true, but imo the arbitrations are the biggest issue simply because of this revival system. Any other content, you truly lose nothing for having an afk leech. You can either let them die at no penalty to yourself and your team, or you can simply back out, and re-enter the mission type immediately. Arbitrations are the only game mode where you cannot easily do this.

 

As far as the team matchmaking, I would retort with the following; Allow us to enter them solo with no affect of drone spawn rates. If drones spawned in equal volumes if I was in a solo squad, or a 2 man team, I would do 99% of arbitrations in a closed lobby.  The only reason I endure this nonsense is because you get significantly more vitus if you have a 4 man team. Remove this, and My complaint will die immediately and I will be supremely satisfied.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

You shouldn't be pugging long arbitrations....that's your fault man sorry. 

 

[(PSN)Wolf_Autopsy]

19 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

You shouldn't be pugging long arbitrations....that's your fault man sorry. 

 

Majority of players do not have large friend groups or large clans. If this is the official stance of DE, then they're marginalizing the majority of their player base. 

Even If I go to recruit chat and make a squad for 1 hour arbi, this still does not eliminate the issue. In most cases, it will actually increase the chances of it. If a afk leech player sees me recruiting for a one hour survival, I'd say he'd be more likely to load up his tank frame and try his luck. The only way is to have 3 other friends who can play with me in every arbitration. I'm a grown man with a job. My friends are grown men with jobs and families. We aren't always on together. Sorry bud, but it's entirely DE's fault if their 'end game' content facilitates leeching behaviour.

Give me the same spawns as a solo as a 4 man, and I would 1 hour solo every single survival and defense. 

Give me the ability to re-enter an arbitration as many times as I like during that one hour window, and I will not type one word into the chat when I see a leech.

Cheers for the input though.

[taiiat]

52 minutes ago, (PSN)Wolf_Autopsy said:

They are the hardest content

Sorry mate, but if you think this "boredom" justifies the afking, you are surely part of the problem.

are we playing the same game? Arbitrations aren't appreciably any 'harder' than other Missions.

it doesn't justify anything. it's an observational statement. you could make it easier to Report people, or, the content could be more engaging and have Players be more willing to participate (and need to, since it would inherently be harder to idle it).
 

[Jokie155]

32 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

You shouldn't be pugging long arbitrations....that's your fault man sorry. 

 

Yes, he should feel bad for using the matchmaking system and relying on others to do more than the literal bare minimum.

Screw off with unhelpful crap.

[(PSN)Wolf_Autopsy]

5 minutes ago, taiiat said:

are we playing the same game? Arbitrations aren't appreciably any 'harder' than other Missions.

it doesn't justify anything. it's an observational statement. you could make it easier to Report people, or, the content could be more engaging and have Players be more willing to participate (and need to, since it would inherently be harder to idle it).
 

Arbitration is the only content where there is an active ability where your warframe abilities are fully nullified (aside from nullies in normal corpus missions), and where the death of a teammate puts the rest of the team at risk. 

To a veteran player, of course its not discernably harder. Again, the solutions are endless. Improve reporting. Allow re-entry into missions. Allow small squads of 1 to 2 players to receive the same spawns.

 

saying "make the game more fun to play" doesn't really address the problem or any potential solutions. The notion of what is fun or not is entirely a subjective perception. If players do not enjoy it, then they should not play arbitrations. Very simple. Literally EVERYTHING you get in arbis, you can buy for platinum in the market, aside from cosmetic stuff, and kuva (which has other methods of farming available).

[taiiat]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Wolf_Autopsy said:

saying "make the game more fun to play" doesn't really address the problem or any potential solutions.

i did not say those Words, there. try reading only the Words that are written. that Post only spoke to the engagement of the Gameplay.

[(PSN)Wolf_Autopsy]

10 minutes ago, taiiat said:

i did not say those Words, there. try reading only the Words that are written. that Post only spoke to the engagement of the Gameplay.

Then let's have a general discussion about making more engaging gameplay in a different topic. This is specifically regarding a major issue I have seen in arbitrations. I agree that most of the content in the game is mind numbing and repetitive. But if im half paying attention, pseudo afking a hydron fissure or a resource farm, it doesn't exactly hinder my team in a significant way. Honestly if people afk in fissures I do not care, because I prefer a full team to be present so I can more easily level my gear with the affinity buff.

Arbitrations have a unique mechanic that debuffs you and your teammates when somebody does not pull their weight. I'd like to think that requires some unique consideration. Here's another solution; bring back old arbitrations where NO REVIVES are possible. If you die, you get to sit quietly and wait for the loot, or you can feel free to quit and get nothing. That sounds fine by me. A time of silent reflection on one's build choices, choices to attempt to leech free gear, etc. A forced introspection period, if you will.

[taiiat]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)Wolf_Autopsy said:

Then let's have a general discussion about making more engaging gameplay in a different topic.

there isn't anything further to say on it, and why somewhere else? because it's not what you want?
it's a simple statement that there is another way to remediate the issue.

9 minutes ago, (PSN)Wolf_Autopsy said:

Here's another solution; bring back old arbitrations where NO REVIVES are possible. 

the pickups can be like a Minefield anyways, where you can accidentally delete yourself if you walk near them at the wrong time. but past that i have no opinion on that.

[(PSN)Wolf_Autopsy]

1 minute ago, taiiat said:

there isn't anything further to say on it, and why somewhere else? because it's not what you want?
it's a simple statement that there is another way to remediate the issue.

the pickups can be like a Minefield anyways, where you can accidentally delete yourself if you walk near them at the wrong time. but past that i have no opinion on that.

I consider arbitrations to be more intense and enjoyable than anything else in the game. The notion of what is enjoyable or engaging is purely subjective. So yes, I do not see this as a solution to what I am saying. I'm more than fine with you sharing your opinion, I simply disagree and think it's missing the point. There are a multitude of immediate solutions that would rectify the issue; the notion of "make the game more engaging" refers to the CORE of what many players find to be wrong with Warframe as a whole. 

As i said in subsequent posts, I literally make my build so I can easily carry my teammates. I run my nezha with the safeguard augments 100% of the time and ALWAYS cast and recast my halo on teammates to improve their chances of survival. I ALWAYS revive teammates quickly because as nezha, I am at very little risk. What I'm saying is if the other solutions are too complicated to implement, then make arbitrations even less forgiving. Those who do not find it engaging enough can choose to farm some platinum and buy what the want from the market.

For example; I personally do not enjoy eidolons. At all. I could enter pugs, afk it while watching youtube, put the shards, and essentially get free arcanes. By me giving my subjective perception (that eidolon fights are boring, gimmicky, repetitive), does that justify me afking for free gear? Absolutely not. You know how I remedy this? I do not play this content that I don't enjoy. I make my platinum through selling primes, mods, rivens, and arbitration wares. I have bought every single r5 arcane that I need. Not that difficult. Play the parts of the game you like, and avoid the parts of the game you don't like. 

I appreciate the input, but you should really re-read your own messages and examine the tone of them. If this is what the average 25k+ post forum user behaves like, then there's no wonder that many things never get fixed or improved. 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

25 minutes ago, Jokie155 said:

Yes, he should feel bad for using the matchmaking system and relying on others to do more than the literal bare minimum.

Screw off with unhelpful crap.

Welcome to the internet. How do you know someone didn't have to step away for a second? There's many reasons why. The op himself could have been the host and made everyone lose their stuff because some storm took his power out etc. 

The afk timer is 5min of not moving more than 5m. If someone is truly afk they won't get loot.

Deal with it.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Wolf_Autopsy said:

Arbitrations are a constantly rotating mission type. They are the hardest content simply because your abilities mean nothing if you cannot survive and consistently kill drones. It is also the only mode that you cannot be easily revived.

 

Sorry mate, but if you think this "boredom" justifies the afking, you are surely part of the problem.

Arbitrations are easy as hell because of the current meta of the game, which is AoE guns. People in public matches barely even use any abilities, because Brammas, Envoys and Zarrs do all the killing without needing to aim for S#&$.

Pick up Inaros, Helminth slot Roar and equip a Bramma. If you team has at least 1 or 2 support frames then you're good to go for 2+ hours.

[(PSN)Wolf_Autopsy]

Just now, Wyrmius_Prime said:

Arbitrations are easy as hell because of the current meta of the game, which is AoE guns. People in public matches barely even use any abilities, because Brammas, Envoys and Zarrs do all the killing without needing to aim for S#&$.

Agreed. I use my bramma 90% of the time. Any AoE weapon with primed firestorm is a joke. Point is an afk player is more likely to die, cause debuffs to me and my active teammates, and actively hinder our ability to go for longer periods of time.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Wolf_Autopsy said:

Agreed. I use my bramma 90% of the time. Any AoE weapon with primed firestorm is a joke. Point is an afk player is more likely to die, cause debuffs to me and my active teammates, and actively hinder our ability to go for longer periods of time.

There are hundreds of corners in large rooms in which enemies cannot even reach them. They won't die. The enemy AI in this game is a joke.

[(PSN)Wolf_Autopsy]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Welcome to the internet. How do you know someone didn't have to step away for a second? There's many reasons why. The op himself could have been the host and made everyone lose their stuff because some storm took his power out etc. 

The afk timer is 5min of not moving more than 5m. If someone is truly afk they won't get loot.

Deal with it.

Use the chat system. People can say brb and I will gladly watch their back. This was addressed in the OP. 

I don't care if they lose their loot. They are actively HINDERING our ability to go long periods of time, with the chance of them dying and creating debuffs.

[(PSN)Wolf_Autopsy]

Just now, Wyrmius_Prime said:

There are hundreds of corners in large rooms in which enemies cannot even reach them. They won't die.

Most players are terrible. They can barely manage actively staying alive, let alone passively. Sounds like you're one of the pro afkers. Well done mate, you're less of a leech than the others.

[(PSN)Wolf_Autopsy]

15 minutes ago, taiiat said:

it's a simple statement that there is another way to remediate the issue.

Here are solutions:

a) allow us to re-enter an arbitration as many times as we like in a given hour, so we can easily leave and re-enter if a teammate is leeching.

b) allow us to receive the same difficulty/frequency of arbitration drone spawns, regardless of squad size. I would gladly 2 man all arbitrations with a close friend if I could receive the same amount of vitus.

c) improve reporting system and penalties for players who are repeatedly reported to create a deterrent for this behaviour.

d) return the old system of arbitrations where if you die, you're dead until the mission is completed or failed.

 

There are four immediate solutions that rectify the problem that aren't related to the core gameplay mechanics of a looter-shooter endless farming game.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Wolf_Autopsy said:

Use the chat system. People can say brb and I will gladly watch their back. This was addressed in the OP. 

I don't care if they lose their loot. They are actively HINDERING our ability to go long periods of time, with the chance of them dying and creating debuffs.

This isn't happening every single match. You're using a few anecdotes. It's common for game forums to be places where people rush to immediately vent about a thing that happened a few times. 

 

[(PSN)Wolf_Autopsy]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

This isn't happening every single match. You're using a few anecdotes. It's common for game forums to be places where people rush to immediately vent about a thing that happened a few times. 

 

In the past weeks, It's been happening every 2nd arbitration on average. I'm indicating that I've noticed a large increase in this behaviour entirely because they are not addressing it. It has gotten worse now because of the introduction of galvanized mods. Perhaps this is a larger issue because of the playstation community; if you tell me it's not a common problem on PC, I'd be inclined to believe you. But the only way to ensure a consistent gameplay experience across all platforms is to attempt to eliminate this behaviour.

 

I work as a coder. I understand the relevance of statistical data, sample sets, etc. I've been noticing this for weeks, since introduction of galvanized mods. Finally today, I have decided to post. I am not a reactive child on the internet. I am a grown man who can form an articulate opinion on the stimuli he takes in. You don't have to agree with my perception, but attempting to devalue it and say im jumping the gun is a bit silly.

[chaotea]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Wolf_Autopsy said:

automatic boot from the mission with ALL rewards forfeited if the player is AFK for a period of time; HOWEVER, this would punish players who are not attempting to leech, but may need to go to the washroom, answer a call, what have you. Life does happen, and if a teammate indicates this in the chat, I have no problem keeping them alive while they sort out their business in a prompt manner.

Compromise: Vote to kick, only activating if a player is designated by the system as 'AFK'. So you cant kick just because they've taken a limbo or whatever, and if someone says they've got to let the dog out or whatever you can wait.

[(PSN)Wolf_Autopsy]

1 minute ago, chaotea said:

Compromise: Vote to kick, only activating if a player is designated by the system as 'AFK'. So you cant kick just because they've taken a limbo or whatever, and if someone says they've got to let the dog out or whatever you can wait.

I would be 100% okay with this. I've had to go use the washroom, get my uber eats from the door etc. Usually I have a friend in the mission who can watch my back. But this would definitely be a very simple implementation that could allow the community to police itself.

This functionality would also be very helpful in all other content where leeching is an issue, ie. the current plague star event, radroom jokerstors, etc. +1 cheers for the response, actually did not consider such a system.