survival spawn rates buff

[Fractyr]

the number of enemies that spawn in non steel path survival missions are way too low. the gameplay isnt even satisfying as there are only a few enemies on screen and the low spawn rates cockblock you into wasting life support or you lose and also most of the rooms in survival are empty and you need to actively look for enemies to kill. the amusing part of this issue is that steve wanted to model the gameplay after left 4 dead 2 but this is nothing like it just imagine instead of endless waves of zombies there were only 5 zombies.

[SDGDen]

this also partially depends on the tileset, and if you're moving around or staying in one tile, and how many players are in your squad.

the spawn rate goes up with more players (and doesnt go down once someone leaves), and that spawnrate gets split across where the 4 players are, if they're all together all of the enemies will spawn in tiles neighbouring the tile the players are in and make their way towards the players.

i'd also recommend staying in one tile, as constantly changing spawn locations seems to lower the spawnrate.

 

another issue with this is that the starchart survival missions need to be soloable by someone of the appropriate skill level. which in some cases... is not that high. someone can access something like gabii on ceres before they even have their second frame (assuming they dont bother picking up rhino, excalibur, frost or mag), they'd have something like the furis, the boltor and the heat sword. at the point where they reach that node, it should be possible for them to do it (without being carried by some mr30s).

this kinda brings up a bigger topic about warframe's power scaling where effectively, the difference between the power of a new player and the power of a veteran is WAAAAYYY too big. but thats a different topic.

and then there's the engine only being able to keep up with so many enemies. although obviously, the game can keep up with 4 players worth of enemies so there's room for more enemies on solo.

 

what i'd propose is to have a system that analyses whether the player is spending more time fighting or more time looking for enemies, and spawning in more enemies (up to the same 4 player level of enemy spawns) if the player isnt getting attacked enough. this would mean you'd get less enemies if you're slower at killing them and more if you're quicker. and as such it'd give solo new-ish players a way to complete the mission and farm there while having the goal of killing as fast as possible both for life support and because more kills = more spawns = more loot. 

[Slayer-.]

I don't like how the new Corpus ship designs are making the Corpus even worse getting stuck in rooms, the Grineer drop more air than the Corpus it feels.

[Berzerkules]

9 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

I don't like how the new Corpus ship designs are making the Corpus even worse getting stuck in rooms, the Grineer drop more air than the Corpus it feels.

Agreed, the new corpus tiles are too big, they are cluttered, have too many vertical levels and many don't have enough entrance/exits. It seems that they were designed to be aesthetically pleasing and little thought put into how spawn mechanics would work on them. 

The Void tiles are extremely well made imo. There are large and small rooms that aren't cluttered with unnecessary choke points and most have several entrance/exits so when they are pieced together it's fairly easy to have a large room where enemies funnel in from several doors so you get a constant flow of enemies. This also allows you to progress through the map while keeping spawns consistent because enemies in the room you just left will follow but the new spawns will be from one of the several doors in the room you just moved too. There is very little down time between spawns if you pace your movement from room to room through a survival mission in the void. 

[Slayer-.]

14 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

Agreed, the new corpus tiles are too big, they are cluttered, have too many vertical levels and many don't have enough entrance/exits. It seems that they were designed to be aesthetically pleasing and little thought put into how spawn mechanics would work on them. 

The Void tiles are extremely well made imo. There are large and small rooms that aren't cluttered with unnecessary choke points and most have several entrance/exits so when they are pieced together it's fairly easy to have a large room where enemies funnel in from several doors so you get a constant flow of enemies. This also allows you to progress through the map while keeping spawns consistent because enemies in the room you just left will follow but the new spawns will be from one of the several doors in the room you just moved too. There is very little down time between spawns if you pace your movement from room to room through a survival mission in the void. 

Yeah I hate doing Survival on the new ship tilesets, I try and avoid it like the plague, doing it solo all I ever seem to do is try and find enemies while moving between life support until it just becomes a joke and I leave, killing every enemy I find doesn't help with air because of the Ai's crappy bot pathing on the new ships.

[Uhkretor]

psst psst

Spoiler

^{_{... Corridors are your friends... Use them...}}

[Silligoose]

Players in L4D also do not generally have access to one-shot, no-risk, room clearing AoE with effectively  unlimited ammo and health.  Until one reaches a level of enemies where players can't do that, more enemies just make the mission easier, not harder. Given the differences in player power, Survival is modeled pretty well on L4D, but players in Warframe have access to too much power to make the gameplay interesting for long runs.

L4D would seem like it spawns even less enemies than Warframe if you were given a bazooka that you can shoot with no risk and endless ammo supplies.

[(NSW)Greybones]

If you want the L4D-akin experience, you’re going to have to let the experience happen. L4D naturally leaves breathing room; overpowered builds that don’t leave much breathing room for much of anything kind of supersede the chance

[(PSN)robotwars7]

others have made good points, but hardware limitations are also a factor: people running on the lowest possible-spec potatoes are not gonna be able to handle having twice as many enemeis on screen without some serious issues. I really want more enemies too, but unless every single Tenno gets a new console or at least a mid-tier PC, fundamental changes aren't likely to happen. 

[SpiritTeA]

For me Star chart is for new players only, and about survival... I have Steel Path where I can run with anything for about one hour due to good spawns, so I’m satisfied. 

[(PSN)Richtel79]

The same problem occurs again and again in Relic Survival Mission, the spawn rate is usually so low that you have problems getting the 10 together within 5 minutes! It gets even worse when people don't stay together on public missions and the spawn rate is almost zero! Only a lot of people want or can't understand it if you put a point away and write in the chat, please stay here