Planned Lich and Sister Changes to Remove a Weapon From the Pool When I Reject to Mercy Kill a Larvling Seems Not Thought Through

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

2 hours ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

The grind makes sense when they have a set paywall to bypass the grind in free-to-play games. However you really cannot skip the Lich grind in its entirety, you still gotta figure out the Parazon mod combination and kill the Lich even if you trade for a Lich and buy the Requiem mods. Even if you aren't buying anything, you still need to farm several copies of each weapon to max them out with the Valence Fusion system.

Grind for the sake of grind makes absolutely no sense no matter from which perspective you look at it, whether it is company profits or gameplay experience. Both aspects suffer from it.

I can get behind the idea of making lich and sop weapons purchaseable, but not having all content handed to players on a silver platter. If you don't come to warframe to grind then I seriously don't know how you have been playing the game so far cause that's all warframe is... game of grind for millions of players ot there who enjoy grindy games

[(PSN)IndianChiefJeff]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

I can get behind the idea of making lich and sop weapons purchaseable, but not having all content handed to players on a silver platter. If you don't come to warframe to grind then I seriously don't know how you have been playing the game so far cause that's all warframe is... game of grind for millions of players ot there who enjoy grindy games

Mobility, gunplay & smooth gameplay in general, that's why I still play. That's probably what still hooks other players too. Doesn't excuse the fact that the Nemesis System still feels half-baked & disrespectful in regards to a player's investment of time. If the grind were more reasonable, perhaps with the removal of one or two layers of RNG, then it'd be more enjoyable as a result. Simply put, grind doesn't constitute as genuine content.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)IndianChiefJeff said:

Mobility, gunplay & smooth gameplay in general, that's why I still play

Yea I can't play games for gameplay alone (pvp is only exception), I don't know if it's just me but all of my old and loved games are collecting dust because there was nothing else for me to work towards after i completed them.

I thought that was the point of the creation of grindy games, to give players infinite things to work towards for those who only play games when they have things to look forward to 

[Wyrmius_Prime]

19 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

I can get behind the idea of making lich and sop weapons purchaseable, but not having all content handed to players on a silver platter. If you don't come to warframe to grind then I seriously don't know how you have been playing the game so far cause that's all warframe is... game of grind for millions of players ot there who enjoy grindy games

There's 2 very different parts to the Lich grind though. The first part is just grinding level 5 missions to get a correct weapons of your choice. That's the part that isn't fun in anyone's opinion, and that's the part that people have been asking to be changed for multiple years for now. The second part is when you actually fight the Liches and figure out the parazon combination, which is the fun part of the grind, and the core of the entire nemesis system to begin with. You can have grind that is also fun by making the main gameplay loop of the grind fun.

Unfortunately we are currently spending more time hunting for the correct weapon than actually fighting the Liches, which is a problem that is only going to get worse the more weapons DE introduces to the nemesis systems. The currently proposed change is only a major bandaid to the problem, and as OP explained, there are also big downsides to it.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

1 hour ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

There's 2 very different parts to the Lich grind though. The first part is just grinding level 5 missions to get a correct weapons of your choice. That's the part that isn't fun in anyone's opinion, and that's the part that people have been asking to be changed for multiple years for now. The second part is when you actually fight the Liches and figure out the parazon combination, which is the fun part of the grind, and the core of the entire nemesis system to begin with. You can have grind that is also fun by making the main gameplay loop of the grind fun.

Unfortunately we are currently spending more time hunting for the correct weapon than actually fighting the Liches, which is a problem that is only going to get worse the more weapons DE introduces to the nemesis systems. The currently proposed change is only a major bandaid to the problem, and as OP explained, there are also big downsides to it.

Making the grind more fun would work way better to me (along with properly rewarding player investment of course), am with you on that

[Famecans]

On 2022-01-29 at 9:31 AM, DebrisFlow said:

easen one of them for the less lucky attempts...

I think there are better changes to ease the game's progression, this change will only make it easier for newbies to access the AoE arsenal and that's a bad change...

the system will still be horrible as it hasn't alleviated real problems like the host aborting the mission; capturing a lich against the will of one of the squadron; little description in the capture interface for the squad... the currently RNG can be completely relieved by the trading system, the DE just needs to facilitate this in the game.

here is a post from an active hunter describing the main catch issues: 

 

[AMurderForCrow]

On 2022-01-28 at 11:54 AM, (PSN)Deeceem said:

As it was just announced on the dev stream it is planned to remove a weapon from the sister/lich pool if you don't mercy kill the larvling until you created and finished a lich/sister.

Now, it may be just me: I down but don't mercy kill larvlings all the time as collateral damage during general gameplay by say leveling on Adaro for example. This creates a weapon from the pool that gets passively rejected (and removed from the pool) by me without me even having the intention to create a lich. I don't create a lich or a sister on a whim when I come across them I farm a larvling and lich specifically if I want to get a weapon at a specific moment in time and ignore the downed larvlings otherwise.

This means I am very likely to remove a weapon from the pool I might want to target farm at a later point simply by playing the game. Which then would force me to go through an entire lich farming process for a weapon I might not even want in order to reset the pool before I'd be even able to target the weapon I want to spawn.

I don't know, maybe I'm an outlier and everyone else always has a lich/sister active at any given time. I don't and noone I know does either though which would create the issue mentioned above.

As a sidenote: if the general system will work like this (removing specific weapons from the pool) a modifiable pool should also be visible to players in general, so they can track which weapons are available and which ones are not.

Thats called user error. The system should work as is. 

[(PSN)Deeceem]

Am 2.2.2022 um 16:15 schrieb CallJamal:

Thats called user error. The system should work as is. 

What is called "user error"? You quoted my entire post that talked about multiple things and angles.

[AMurderForCrow]

23 hours ago, (PSN)Deeceem said:

What is called "user error"? You quoted my entire post that talked about multiple things and angles.

You understand that a larvaling will spawn. Prepare accordingly.

[(PSN)Deeceem]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb CallJamal:

You understand that a larvaling will spawn. Prepare accordingly.

Riiiiiight....

[(NSW)HydroidPrime]

The larva weapon pools could be divided by planet/enemy level, have the least sought after weapons spawn on Ceres lvl 14-16,  mid tier weapons on Uranus lvl 25-27, and your nukor/bramma/zarr on Sedna lvl 30-40.

[Bloodlifa]

i don't get this , its total crap , I've been farming for a kuva zarr to valence the one i already have , i went thru the entire pool twice , seen the ayanga 4 times , 3 times the grattler and 3 times the hek, only seen the ogris once and never even seen the zarr so far. the fact that weapons are supposed to be removed doesn't seem to work at all.