Add Overguard to the older bosses, remove invulnerability.

[NPCfisherman]

The release of Overguard feels like the perfect replacement for the invulnerability phases of the old bosses, and a much better introduction to newer players.

I am specifically talking about the invulnerability phase, and not about re-working the boss fights, from today's sortie I was reminded of the first encounters with Councilor Vay Hek. It was not a pleasant experience with the minimal visual cues, and short window for damage.

For Councilor Vay Hek, Overguard is a clear and distinct visual indicator for the newer players. Plus it is less tedious and also rewards older players as they can easily strip the Overguard. 

 

 

[(PSN)max141064]

1 minute ago, NPCfisherman said:

and also rewards older players as they can easily strip the Overguard. 

this is why DE will never do this. 

What boss is a boss that can be oneshotted by a well prepared player? 

it's no boss at all. 

[L3512]

33 minutes ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

this is why DE will never do this. 

What boss is a boss that can be oneshotted by a well prepared player? 

it's no boss at all. 

Sergeant.

Oh wait that's a boss that doesn't even need prep.

How about every single boss without invulnerably?

[(PSN)max141064]

2 minutes ago, L3512 said:

Sergeant.

Oh wait that's a boss that doesn't even need prep.

How about every single boss without invulnerably?

By this logic every boss should be a sergeant-level bad. 

is that a good thing? 

[Lutesque]

Just now, (PSN)max141064 said:

By this logic every boss should be a sergeant-level bad. 

is that a good thing? 

It's a Great Thing....

I wish every Boss was Sargeant/Phorid

[L3512]

10 minutes ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

By this logic every boss should be a sergeant-level bad. 

is that a good thing?

It's an answer to your question, you literally said.

 

"this is why DE will never do this. 

What boss is a boss that can be oneshotted by a well prepared player? 

it's no boss at all."

 

Quite verifiably I did not design The Sergeant or any bosses in WF. DE did, so "logically" how you arrived at such a conclusion, I'm not sure.

[(PSN)max141064]

1 minute ago, L3512 said:

Quite verifiably I did not design The Sergeant or any bosses in WF. DE did, so "logically" how you arrived at such a conclusion, I'm not sure.

because the post you made is in a specific thread of a specific idea a player wants. 

29 minutes ago, L3512 said:

How about every single boss without invulnerably?

let me fix my phrasing for you....how about every single boss that without invincibility that would already be oneshotted we replace it with another glorified shield bar. 

would that be better? 

[fo3nixz]

if they do that, they must be immune to viral else: proc 10 viral stack + heavy glaive / heavy cerata and done

[CrownOfShadows]

I've always hated the invulnerability. I think everyone does.

I agree there's a big problem with scaling, but in concept I think the OP is going in a good direction. Instead of invulnerability, what if they gained a special boss shield. This shield is not invulnerability or overguard, but it is exceptionally strong. After awhile it fades and has to recharge. Maybe each boss has an elemental weakness assigned to their boss shield, so that if you hammer at it with that element you can get through it a bit and do damage, and if you don't have that element it's effectively invulnerable and you just have to wait for a bit like normal. If we get worried about the amount of elemental damage that can leak through a shield we can cap it and/or start some boss healing. Boss gray health could also be built in - it would be frustrating but still more engaging than deadpan invulnerability.

How's that?

[L3512]

10 minutes ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

let me fix my phrasing for you....how about every single boss that without invincibility that would already be oneshotted we replace it with another glorified shield bar. 

would that be better? 

Much the same for older players, maybe harder for newer players depending on how overguard works. Something like Vay Hek that you can oneshot even on SP I'm not sure replacing invulnerability with overguard would matter much.

[(PSN)max141064]

4 minutes ago, L3512 said:

Much the same for older players, maybe harder for newer players depending on how overguard works. Something like Vay Hek that you can oneshot even on SP I'm not sure replacing invulnerability with overguard would matter much.

because invulnerability can't be breached. 

Overguard? easily. 

[chaotea]

I feel like this makes sense in a way. Not removing invunerability, but using the visual effects of overguard to indicate when a boss is invunerable. Maybe a gray version of the health bar and a cosmetic version of the guardian eximus that lasts while a boss is invunerable.

[L3512]

10 minutes ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

because invulnerability can't be breached. 

Overguard? easily. 

In practical gameplay terms that just means waiting for the invulnerability to end though, hardly a massive difference to blasting through overguard.

[taiiat]

that might be a great idea. rather than the Player basically taking their hands off the Controls and walking away from their Computer for 30 Seconds while they wait for some Invulnerability Phase, the Boss could instead be designed to gain Overguard of like 5-10x their Health Capacity while the Boss goes and does some stuff.
so then the Boss doesn't ever go and hide at all, but gains the temporary bonus Health as it does its transition to the next Phase or Et Cetera.

as much as i hate to say it, maybe copy from Liches and add in a Parazon use after each Phase.

so rather than the fight ends when the Boss' Health Bar reaches 0, each time it hits 0 you poke it with the Parazon, and it transitions to the next Phase doing some fancy looking stuff, with the Overguard being there to protect it while it does the fancy stuff.

could work.

 

54 minutes ago, chaotea said:

Not removing invunerability, but using the visual effects of overguard to indicate when a boss is invunerable. Maybe a gray version of the health bar and a cosmetic version of the guardian eximus that lasts while a boss is invunerable.

but we already have that? the Gray Health Bar with a Knight's Shield Icon over it.

[NezuHimeSama]

Invincibility time is just a bandaid for bad boss design. There's nothing wrong with being able to quick kill a boss if you know how, and there's nothing fun about waiting around for janky, half-broken animations and scripts to allow you to resume playing the game eventually.

Waitframe is bad design. Period.

[Genitive]

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

that might be a great idea. rather than the Player basically taking their hands off the Controls and walking away from their Computer for 30 Seconds while they wait for some Invulnerability Phase, the Boss could instead be designed to gain Overguard of like 5-10x their Health Capacity while the Boss goes and does some stuff.
so then the Boss doesn't ever go and hide at all, but gains the temporary bonus Health as it does its transition to the next Phase or Et Cetera.

as much as i hate to say it, maybe copy from Liches and add in a Parazon use after each Phase.

so rather than the fight ends when the Boss' Health Bar reaches 0, each time it hits 0 you poke it with the Parazon, and it transitions to the next Phase doing some fancy looking stuff, with the Overguard being there to protect it while it does the fancy stuff.

could work.

But how does that change anything? The boss still has a transition phase, but instead of invulnerability it has overguard big enough that you probably won't be able to remove it anyway. The end result is the same – player will still have to wait for the transition to end. It is just a cosmetic change, unless you introduce additional mechanics, such as being able to interrupt the transition to deal additional damage. Now that would reward players with high-end gear, since they would be able to finish fights more quickly.

[taiiat]

3 hours ago, Genitive said:

It is just a cosmetic change, unless you introduce additional mechanics, such as being able to interrupt the transition to deal additional damage. Now that would reward players with high-end gear, since they would be able to finish fights more quickly.

i thought that was a given - that is the purpose of it being Overguard rather than nothing to do but wait for Invulnerability, yes. a pretty significant barrier but you can still break to change what the Boss is allowed to do.

[chaotea]

22 hours ago, taiiat said:

but we already have that? the Gray Health Bar with a Knight's Shield Icon over it.

Ive never found the grey particulary obvious. Something abit of a bolder visual change would be helpful.

[taiiat]

9 hours ago, chaotea said:

Ive never found the grey particulary obvious. Something abit of a bolder visual change would be helpful.

fair enough.