Revenant is getting buffed to become unkillable again!

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

I mean are you going to deny the fact that there was thread after thread of people complaining that team mates were killing their thralls before they could?

I feel like it'd be a worse problem if you hit 7 thralls and the only way to reset the ability was to reave them...

 

2 hours ago, (XBOX)RelsWhisper said:

I still think Revenant isn't. My Inaros build can get me through anything. I'm still taking Inaros over Revenant because of Revenants terrible energy economy or the fact Reave is an even worse ability in relation to healing, it's more of an investment.

Your dependent on other abilities to do that where I've got essentially multiple ways to do it along with redundancy.

Also in the end at these high levels they also both have a similar problem: 

There other abilities really are not worth casting and I'd say it's an even bigger problem with Revenant due to his energy economy. At least with Inaros with Negation Swarm casting it is a CC/Group heal that has no energy cost tied to it. Now it's not a great heal for supporting a group but it's still something more than Revenant can't do.

And with Revenant your managing a timer, worrying about the next recast. Inaros isn't. Even if I get 1 shotted, I'm still taking him over Revenant. For the sole purpose to tank, I'd run that risk.

Simply put, I can do more. If you do with Revenant your risking your survival.

Not only that whenever I use Revenant I'm always just thinking "Why don't I just use Nyx"

The only 2 abilities revenant players use energy on are Mesmer skin and reave. Enthrall is literally free when you use Mesmer skin so it's not a problem. His fourth ability is typically not used where you are tanking with revenant, so you can subsume in anything you want (like dispensary for energy regeneration or breach surge for cc which btw affects eximus).

If you are having energy problems with revenant there are literally multiple options: (1) use less blind rage, (2) increase energy efficiency, and (3) use energy pads. 

Revenant is managing a timer yes, but that is 90% of warframes, and in addition 99% of the time you do not need to pay attention to the amount of stacks because shield gate let's you know it runs out, so when shields pop just roll and recast.

I'm not even saying Inaros is a bad tank either, the thing is that in terms of being the tankiest tank Warframe, Revenant (and maybe nidus) fulfills that role. 

 

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

9 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

I'm not even saying Inaros is a bad tank either, the thing is that in terms of being the tankiest tank Warframe, Revenant (and maybe nidus) fulfills that role. 

 

Ultimately it's down to taste. They're all good with there own merits. With the Archon fights and Crystal's your going to be able to really maximize warframes without breaking any builds. 

And you have 5 slots to do play with. So time will tell how this also plays into the discussion. Either way Veilbreaker is literally bringing something that every player should be excited about. 

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

Just now, (XBOX)RelsWhisper said:

Ultimately it's down to taste. They're all good with there own merits. With the Archon fights and Crystal's your going to be able to really maximize warframes without breaking any builds. 

And you have 5 slots to do play with. So time will tell how this also plays into the discussion. Either way Veilbreaker is literally bringing something that every player should be excited about. 

Can't wait to get the infinity stones and put them on Revenant.

[DeadVoid118]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)RelsWhisper said:

I still think Revenant isn't. My Inaros build can get me through anything. I'm still taking Inaros over Revenant because of Revenants terrible energy economy or the fact Reave is an even worse ability in relation to healing, it's more of an investment.

Your dependent on other abilities to do that where I've got essentially multiple ways to do it along with redundancy.

Also in the end at these high levels they also both have a similar problem: 

There other abilities really are not worth casting and I'd say it's an even bigger problem with Revenant due to his energy economy. At least with Inaros with Negation Swarm casting it is a CC/Group heal that has no energy cost tied to it. Now it's not a great heal for supporting a group but it's still something more than Revenant can't do.

And with Revenant your managing a timer, worrying about the next recast. Inaros isn't. Even if I get 1 shotted, I'm still taking him over Revenant. For the sole purpose to tank, I'd run that risk.

Simply put, I can do more. If you do with Revenant your risking your survival.

Not only that whenever I use Revenant I'm always just thinking "Why don't I just use Nyx"

Inaros really can't do more though?

I've never had an issue with Revenant's energy economy either, he's super efficient and can stack a lot more mods for making it efficient due to not needing survivability mods. A lot of people go full power strength, but truth is you don't need to do that and it's probably more efficient to run some duration and efficiency mods instead. I don't even have Arcane Energize or Zenurik with Revenant.

Revenant's CC can near-permanently hold down a hallway, and does protect your allies somewhat. This is much quicker and less clunky than Inaros' sand bois.

Revenant's Reave deals percentage damage, which is always going to be better than any flat number for scaling. You can even easily mod it to instantly kill anyone you thrall, which is important towards level cap. You don't use Reave for healing, you don't need it with Mesmer Skin. Healing becomes pretty useless when everything starts to 1-shot you as well.

The only thing of Revenant's that doesn't scale well is Danse Macabre, which is fair. Helminth away.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

2 minutes ago, DeadVoid118 said:

Inaros really can't do more though?

I've never had an issue with Revenant's energy economy either, he's super efficient and can stack a lot more mods for making it efficient due to not needing survivability mods. A lot of people go full power strength, but truth is you don't need to do that and it's probably more efficient to run some duration and efficiency mods instead. I don't even have Arcane Energize or Zenurik with Revenant.

Revenant's CC can near-permanently hold down a hallway, and does protect your allies somewhat. This is much quicker and less clunky than Inaros' sand bois.

Revenant's Reave deals percentage damage, which is always going to be better than any flat number for scaling. You can even easily mod it to instantly kill anyone you thrall, which is important towards level cap. You don't use Reave for healing, you don't need it with Mesmer Skin. Healing becomes pretty useless when everything starts to 1-shot you as well.

The only thing of Revenant's that doesn't scale well is Danse Macabre, which is fair. Helminth away.

And even Danse Macabre is still a good room clearer up to steel path.

[Skoomaseller]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)RelsWhisper said:

I still think Revenant isn't. My Inaros build can get me through anything. I'm still taking Inaros over Revenant because of Revenants terrible energy economy or the fact Reave is an even worse ability in relation to healing, it's more of an investment.

Your dependent on other abilities to do that where I've got essentially multiple ways to do it along with redundancy.

Also in the end at these high levels they also both have a similar problem: 

There other abilities really are not worth casting and I'd say it's an even bigger problem with Revenant due to his energy economy. At least with Inaros with Negation Swarm casting it is a CC/Group heal that has no energy cost tied to it. Now it's not a great heal for supporting a group but it's still something more than Revenant can't do.

And with Revenant your managing a timer, worrying about the next recast. Inaros isn't. Even if I get 1 shotted, I'm still taking him over Revenant. For the sole purpose to tank, I'd run that risk.

Simply put, I can do more. If you do with Revenant your risking your survival.

Not only that whenever I use Revenant I'm always just thinking "Why don't I just use Nyx"

Woah, hold on. If you prefer Inaros over Revenant, sure, that's more power to you and no one can tell you otherwise. But bad energy economy? That's literally untrue lol

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

2 hours ago, DeadVoid118 said:

Revenant's CC can near-permanently hold down a hallway, and does protect your allies somewhat. This is much quicker and less clunky than Inaros' sand bois.

Are we going to not acknowledge the fact that Eximus just don't care about CC anymore? Which plays into that survivability and how he defends himself? Compared to Inaros and other other tank frames: They don't have that downside.

Sure that same problem exists for Inaros abilities but with the crazy amount of health available that's generally not a problem. 

1 hour ago, Skoomaseller said:

Woah, hold on. If you prefer Inaros over Revenant, sure, that's more power to you and no one can tell you otherwise. But bad energy economy? That's literally untrue lol

Comparatively to Inaros it is. If you don't have energy for whatever reason when you need to recast Mesmer skin that survivability isn't there anymore. 

If it's not on tap, all that survivability isn't there. Plus his 4 is just a hog on energy, at least that's a subsume slot.

 

2 hours ago, DeadVoid118 said:

Revenant's Reave deals percentage damage, which is always going to be better than any flat number for scaling. You can even easily mod it to instantly kill anyone you thrall, which is important towards level cap. You don't use Reave for healing, you don't need it with Mesmer Skin. Healing becomes pretty useless when everything starts to 1-shot you as well.

 

I'm not talking about anything else other then just being a tank. That's it. Inaros isn't some crazy damage dealer in any regard, plenty of tools to use to keep that health topped up from using Panzer to Amalgum Daikyu target acquired while using a Nikana Prime for life steal. 

Which also goes back to relying on thralls which the Eximus changes hurt that. Not only that but the thrall cap (which is absolutely arbitrary and should definitely be changed) also holds it back in modes like Cascade where that really shines but also isn't always perfect due to that problem. Your still limited to either a cap or energy to achieve survivability.

[DeadVoid118]

11 minutes ago, (XBOX)RelsWhisper said:

Are we going to not acknowledge the fact that Eximus just don't care about CC anymore? Which plays into that survivability and how he defends himself? Compared to Inaros and other other tank frames: They don't have that downside.

Well, it doesn't play into Revenant's survivability because of Mesmer Skin, you don't need any CC to survive. The one issue was Eximus Units depleteing skin stacks, but they're fixing that and that's literally what this post is on. Furthermore, thralls do attract eximus aggro, so it still works for eximus units. No idea what downside you're talking about.

17 minutes ago, (XBOX)RelsWhisper said:

I'm not talking about anything else other then just being a tank. That's it. Inaros isn't some crazy damage dealer in any regard, plenty of tools to use to keep that health topped up from using Panzer to Amalgum Daikyu target acquired while using a Nikana Prime for life steal. 

Which also goes back to relying on thralls which the Eximus changes hurt that. Not only that but the thrall cap (which is absolutely arbitrary and should definitely be changed) also holds it back in modes like Cascade where that really shines but also isn't always perfect due to that problem  

Well, now you're lying because you did bring up the fact Inaros has "other abilities worth casting", which isn't tanking, claiming Inaros had things Revenant didn't.

And, it's weird how you need all these tools just to get Inaros to sustainably tank (until you go into endless) when Revenant gets a much better method of tanking that requires none of this other than some energy on occasion which is easy enough with just random energy orb drops, let alone running Zenurik or Arcane Energize.

Thralls weren't really hurt by Eximus changes, Eximus still target them and the damage thralls deal was never valuable, nor is the Eximus unit abilities (you can still enthrall Eximus if you remove their overguard, but there's really no need to). The cap is a bummer, but it's still a very decent ability and aggro has no cap. 50 Grineer shooting a thrall is effectively CCing all those Grineer.

[nslay]

18 minutes ago, (XBOX)RelsWhisper said:

Comparatively to Inaros it is. If you don't have energy for whatever reason when you need to recast Mesmer skin that survivability isn't there anymore. 

If it's not on tap, all that survivability isn't there. Plus his 4 is just a hog on energy, at least that's a subsume slot.

Revenant main here. I now mainly use the new Madurai and I somehow still don't have energy problems with him. You just slot an efficiency mod and maybe put Arcane Energize and you're good to go! You won't have any problems with Mesmer Skin or Enthrall... or Reave... or Danse Macabre. Not that you often need to dispatch beefy enemies with Reave anymore (after the scaling changes).

I think you might have more of a point if Revenant was susceptible to stuff like Magentic procs or Disruptors... but he's not. He's completely immune to energy drain effects (except maybe Eximus, I forget).  So if Revenant is rarely casting abilities and never losing energy, what is a Revenant to spend energy on? Mesmer Skin is cheap and Enthrall is free a lot of the time.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

6 hours ago, (XBOX)RelsWhisper said:

Are we going to not acknowledge the fact that Eximus just don't care about CC anymore? Which plays into that survivability and how he defends himself? Compared to Inaros and other other tank frames: They don't have that downside.

l. 

Which also goes back to relying on thralls which the Eximus changes hurt that. Not only that but the thrall cap (which is absolutely arbitrary and should definitely be changed) also holds it back in modes like Cascade where that really shines but also isn't always perfect due to that problem. Your still limited to either a cap or energy to achieve survivability.

The literal reason why I made this entire thread was because DE acknowledged that they accidentally nerfed Revenant with the eximus update and were fixing it. Revenant atm has unintentionally worse performance compared to what he will be doing next patch.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

The literal reason why I made this entire thread was because DE acknowledged that they accidentally nerfed Revenant with the eximus update and were fixing it. Revenant atm has unintentionally worse performance compared to what he will be doing next patch.

And that's good but it's still limited. Not only that but you still see Rev mains complain to other players about killing Thralls, still see it in group chat "Don't kill Thralls, tnx", that's still not going to go away. And Iwas arguing from solely one aspect. 

But overall there's multiple warframes that do things better then Revenant. And I'd just go use them for better kits in the grand scheme of things.

Revenants fine. It's a really good change. But still overall it's not enough for me to pick him over a list of other warframes that have better kits when looking at the package as a whole.

Even for the sole purpose of tanking (which I've been discussing up to this point and noting else) I'm not taking Revenant.

Is it a better change, yea I agree but it doesn't move the needle overall considering there's more warframes over Revenant that I'd still pick over him.

[nslay]

4 minutes ago, (XBOX)RelsWhisper said:

And that's good but it's still limited. Not only that but you still see Rev mains complain to other players about killing Thralls, still see it in group chat "Don't kill Thralls, tnx", that's still not going to go away. And Iwas arguing from solely one aspect. 

Those are silly Revenant mains! You don't normally need Thralls while playing with other players... the other players take the place of "thralls." What do you need CC for with 3 other meat bags in the game with you?

Though, Enthrall is still useful when you start seeing team mates being downed a lot. At that point, players are having trouble staying alive, let alone killing your Thralls. Luckily the effect spreads in a viral fashion from other Thralls and energy pillars. Even if they manage to kill some Thralls, more will pop up automatically.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

21 minutes ago, (XBOX)RelsWhisper said:

And that's good but it's still limited. Not only that but you still see Rev mains complain to other players about killing Thralls, still see it in group chat "Don't kill Thralls, tnx", that's still not going to go away. And Iwas arguing from solely one aspect. 

 

Mind controlling the thralls actually fixes that problem. 

It makes an immortal thralls that consistently generates more thralls for you.

[Mediloric]

You know, I envy people who like Rev! I really wanted to like him but I do think the overall use of his theme didn't exactly pan out, or maybe it's better to say it didn't pan out like I hoped it would! 

I was hoping for the whole commander with sacrificial minions. You know, to use up for health or empower other abilities or another minion? That's the kind of playstyle I typically go for...

I love minions/summons/necromancy classes but I generally dislike the whole passive playstyle they can potentially bring, Just letting your minions do the work etc. 

The ideal use IMO, is summoning or gathering minions, and empowering them and/or debuffing enemies, or using them to empower you or something else like fuel, I haven't seen many places that get that style right apart from... maybe Path of Exile? Diablo 2 Maybe? Diablo 4 looks like it's on the right track for that however.

Rev looked like to me it was going in that general direction but as I saw more, and how Thralls behaved, it really put me off to the point of being a tad bitter about it, as while I enjoy Nekros, I was tired of it and was hoping Rev brought something new!

(I should mention, I know Thrall Pact can help reach the goal I was hoping for but I do not like how Thralls work, feels way too static for my liking) 

Sadly for me it wasn't the case, but it is nice to see Rev get used and played in different ways, I don't see him that often in pubs as I reckon he thrives more solo, but again I'm happy other people are getting something great out of it. 

Sorry, this is semi off topic to the discussion but I thought I'd drop this in. 

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

Also of note when Revenant receives this change:

Styanax will be available to everyone. His #3rd ability Rally Point not only provides energy to teammates but also grants Shields on kills and Assists.

Which just plays right into his passive which also feed into his passive granting more Crit Chance being based on his shields and overshields.

So I think when Veilbreaker drops I'd argue Styanax+ Pilliage is going to be an insane setup. It's a more active and compelling way to play compared to either Inaros and Revenant. 

Not only that but the possibility to AOE nerf to Sure-footed is also happening and other abilities that have the same effect like Mesmer Skin or other status immune abilities will also likely recieve the same change.

 

[Leqesai]

17 minutes ago, (XBOX)RelsWhisper said:

the AOE nerf to Sure-footed is also likely happening to other abilities that have the same effect like Mesmer Skin

What evidence do you have to support this?

 

[Tiltskillet]

16 minutes ago, (XBOX)RelsWhisper said:

Not only that but the AOE nerf to Sure-footed is also happening and other abilities that have the same effect like Mesmer Skin or other status immune abilities will also likely recieve the same change.

They said in the devstream that a PSF nerf is something they're considering if the scheduled changes don't turn out to be enough after evaluating their effects post-update.  They said firmly not happening with the update itself, so that would be a massive 180.  Do you have a source?

I also don't think they said anything about other forms of self stagger immunity at all.  I do hope that if they go this route eventually that it's not just nerfing PSF and only PSF, because that would not accomplish much.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

1 minute ago, Leqesai said:

What evidence do you have to support this?

 

Well why make the AoE changes to only primed sure footed when your trying to change the AoE Meta?

It's arguably the biggest change to AoE weapons like the Bramma and Zarr right? 

So your not really changing anything if you don't make it a change across the board. You'd only shift it to warframes that work around the issue.

So why assume that this isn't going to happen across the board vs just the mod? 

And if you think that if they don't do it now they won't do it later then you'd just be fooling yourself.

 

[Leqesai]

Just now, (XBOX)RelsWhisper said:

Well why make the AoE changes to only primed sure footed when your trying to change the AoE Meta?

It's arguably the biggest change to AoE weapons like the Bramma and Zarr right? 

So your not really changing anything if you don't make it a change across the board. You'd only shift it to warframes that work around the issue.

So why assume that this isn't going to happen across the board vs just the mod? 

And if you think that if they don't do it now they won't do it later then you'd just be fooling yourself.

 

Assumptions are not evidence. I will reserve judgment until the update is released.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

 

4 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Assumptions are not evidence. I will reserve judgment until the update is released.

Of course but it's still something that's on the table and I'd suspect that if it does happen:

Then they would apply in this case as well.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

11 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

They said in the devstream that a PSF nerf is something they're considering if the scheduled changes don't turn out to be enough after evaluating their effects post-update.  They said firmly not happening with the update itself, so that would be a massive 180.  Do you have a source?

I also don't think they said anything about other forms of self stagger immunity at all.  I do hope that if they go this route eventually that it's not just nerfing PSF and only PSF, because that would not accomplish much.

I forgot the key word of "possibility" I did go back and add it in. But if they do go this route then it has to be also considered as for the reason you mentioned.

[SneakyErvin]

On 2022-09-04 at 6:44 PM, (XBOX)RelsWhisper said:

 

Inaros Not caring is an upside 🤷‍♂️

You dont have to use Vazerin or Zenurik for any healing or energy needs. Like you said in your previous post Inaros is very friendly to newer players it takes very little to get him going. 

Rage and a R2 or 3 Engerize is really all you need. Your really not worried about anything and your free to run another focus school (I'm generally Naramon). It's very passive.

Add in Adeptation and Scrab Armor Augment he's got armor for days. So your not getting one shotted (I havent been in SP yet). That's a lot less investment nowadays to get to this point.

Now if you invested a couple Umbral Forma (Because you wanted to and not needed to) your looking at what? 10,000HP potential? 

What's a Shield Gate again? 🤔

Not to mention your having to manage that 20 seconds. Sure it takes 1 second to recast you know what's faster? Not casting at all. 

If you can't cast that ability for whatever reason, your not the best tank in the game and alot more vulnerable then Inaros is. 

You add in what VeilBreaker brings your enhancing all of that even more. Now Inaros can have passive healing without using any mods. Or more health. Or more armor. And he doesn't even need that investment already (or Umbral forma) to be the best tank.

If I want to only be a tank. Inaros is what I'm using. Anything else requires more effort. 

 Add in how armor stripping works going forward an armor strip Helminth ability on Inaros will make up or any damage falloff he experiences.

 

So you wildly assume I use either Vaz or Zen. I'm not even considering focus when talking about Rev, his tanking potential and everything else he brings. Same deal with energize, I havent used that for a long long time on Rev, and it wasnt to stay topped off on energy for Mesmer Skin recasts, it was to danse for eternity with him prior to SP released. To keep him tanky you need very little management since he cant die nor lose energy while Mesmer is active. 

You're already several investments deep on "low investment" Inaros compared to a tanky Rev not even really invested in tanking.

And I'm not really sure what scenario you might imagine if you run into a situation where you cant recast Mesmer Skin. They cant do anything to stop you recasting it unless you happen to decide to stand smack dab in the middle of a nullibubble. Any frame will be able to access those same armor strips you talk about aswell, so Inaros will still be behind. I kinda think you somehow see low effort tank and best tank as interchangable. Inaros is low effort, but there are better tanks. But I'll just go an slot a rolling guard instead of your Rage mod incase I run into a nullibubble.

A tank with literally infinite health will always be better than a tank with even 10k hp. I also saw that you impled Rhino was a better tank than Rev? That frame has aged poorly, most notably his Iron Skin skill. In most gameplay you get more use out of Rhino by replacing Iron Skin and running a high armor+health umbra build utilizing combat discipline, since Iron Skin is a flat health pool protected by nothing. It goes poof near instantly unless you wanna build it up by charging around like a madman and wasting slots on augments.

With the frames we have access to now I dont think Inaros even clocks in at top 3 as tank. Rev, Lavos and Grendel have far better potential.

[Leqesai]

22 minutes ago, (XBOX)RelsWhisper said:

 

Of course but it's still something that's on the table and I'd suspect that if it does happen:

Then they would apply in this case as well.

There is simply no evidence to support your claims. Take the tin foil hat off and stick to what we have actually been told. It isn't helpful or productive to tell people the aoe protection of abilities is getting nerfed when they haven't said anything about this. 

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

So you wildly assume I use either Vaz or Zen. I'm not even considering focus when talking about Rev, his tanking potential and everything else he brings. Same deal with energize, I havent used that for a long long time on Rev, and it wasnt to stay topped off on energy for Mesmer Skin recasts, it was to danse for eternity with him prior to SP released. To keep him tanky you need very little management since he cant die nor lose energy while Mesmer is active. 

You're already several investments deep on "low investment" Inaros compared to a tanky Rev not even really invested in tanking.

And I'm not really sure what scenario you might imagine if you run into a situation where you cant recast Mesmer Skin. They cant do anything to stop you recasting it unless you happen to decide to stand smack dab in the middle of a nullibubble. Any frame will be able to access those same armor strips you talk about aswell, so Inaros will still be behind. I kinda think you somehow see low effort tank and best tank as interchangable. Inaros is low effort, but there are better tanks. But I'll just go an slot a rolling guard instead of your Rage mod incase I run into a nullibubble.

A tank with literally infinite health will always be better than a tank with even 10k hp. I also saw that you impled Rhino was a better tank than Rev? That frame has aged poorly, most notably his Iron Skin skill. In most gameplay you get more use out of Rhino by replacing Iron Skin and running a high armor+health umbra build utilizing combat discipline, since Iron Skin is a flat health pool protected by nothing. It goes poof near instantly unless you wanna build it up by charging around like a madman and wasting slots on augments.

With the frames we have access to now I dont think Inaros even clocks in at top 3 as tank. Rev, Lavos and Grendel have far better potential.

And yet Revenant still isn't a very popular frame. Inaros Prime is used more (I wonder why 🤔) 

Rhino has aged poorly I agree but I'm still picking him over Revenant just because Roar exists. ⁸But then in this case, I'd also pick Nezah over Rhina so this is neither here or there. Point is: I'm taking either of these warframes over Revenant.

And Hildryn

And Inaros

Or Lavos as you pointed out 

Or even Nyx.

And now Styanax will exist with these changes coming out. And guess what? 

I'm picking him too. Even with this change which is a good change I'd take any of them over Revenant.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

9 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

There is simply no evidence to support your claims. Take the tin foil hat off and stick to what we have actually been told. It isn't helpful or productive to tell people the aoe protection of abilities is getting nerfed when they haven't said anything about this. 

If that change does happen it makes zero sense to omit it in these cases.

The same problem exists but it's just narrowed down to where the community is pushed to a select few warframes that skirt around the problem.

It's a purposed change but if it does happen It's logical to also assume this change is also apart of it. I wouldn't discount it considering it was literally one of the first potential changes they listed off.

And omitting abilities like Mesmer Skin etc isn't healthy or addressing the issue fully. If you address it you have to do it across the board vs just 1 mod. The result is pretty clear to see if they don't apply it.