Are you ever going to fix SHIELDS?. Shield gating SUCKS.

[George_PPS]

On 2022-09-03 at 3:03 PM, xxvaderxxar said:

Shield gating is such a bad mechanic, you are about to drop your 50th frame, a shield based frame, and this mechanic actively works AGAINST its passive.

Soon we will see this become trendy. Talks like Let's "balance" and "fix" this "unintended" "loophole" will be everywhere. 

Are you proposing shield gating nerf? 

[Silligoose]

7 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

"Renders shields Moot" is 3 word way of saying Toxin damage. I merely elected to cut through puffery instead...
You know what's actually deceitful? Asserting 1.3 seconds as a constant...

The 1.3 second constant is how long one's health is immune to damage for, if the full shield gating invulnerability window is activated... Mechanics pertaining to Hildryn and Protea increase that window to 3 seconds.

How do you still not know how it works? Go watch that video, then watch it again, taking notes. Then go study those notes. Go back and watch it again, so you don't delude yourself into thinking the narrator said something he didn't. Then go use a shield gate build and hopefully by then you will understand how it works.

8 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

I do indeed. And what you've conveniently left out is that what you are discussing as an absolute is, instead, a build alternative that is achieved through mods that the player has to elect to equip while forgoing other potential options in the process. Which is, incidentally, definitely in keeping with DE's penchant for balancing against conditions.

So, Why would I give credence to something I know everyone doesn't do?   For that matter, why are you...?

You wouldn't question the 1.3 second constant if you were familiar with shield gating builds. 

Exceptional outliers in performance should always be paid attention to and addressed, regardless of popularity, as they form part of imbalances.

11 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

I read what you wrote. I also quoted it 😀
The simple fact of the matter is that by asking for the changes that you are then you clearly want players to have to deal with the potential of being one-shot. 
If you don't want people to have defensive options that keep them from being one shot...Then you want people to be one-shot. That, as scenarios go, is fairly binary.

Personally, I think it's for your own amusement, but that's because the only other explanation amounts to zealotry...

4 hours ago, Silligoose said:

That was the point of my "nerf adaptation" thread: Address the massive discrepancy in comparative durability between frames, so that tanks do not laugh at the damage that does one-shot kill squishies, which in turn allows DE to balance enemy damage output so that squishies do not get one-shot,

From my "Time to nerf adaptation (and some other things)" thread, the very first post:

The main point of the thread is that the mechanics inherent to something like Adaptation and especially the cap on it (along with other DR caps), leads to potential stacking of DR that results in a massive discrepancy with regards to overall durability in frames. There are more DR stacking mechanics I haven't even touched on that further increases the discrepancy of durability for both solo play and co-op play. The massive discrepancy makes it harder, seemingly impossible, for DE to provide challenging lategame/endgame content in a balanced way without throwing progress out of the window in some way. It has also lead to other design mechanics that cause massive imbalances (eg shield gating).

Consider the implications regarding rebalances to DR, with Adaptation being capped at 50% and innate DR abilities being capped at 50%: With these outliers in performance being addressed and brought closer to the baseline, it results in tankier frames being less durable and squishier frames being more durable in a relative sense (compared to one another), the bar in terms of needed damage output from enemies in order to make them threatening, can now be lowered by DE: For example, instead of enemies having to do 1k damage each for enemies to be a threat to tanks, they now only have to output 350 damage each to be a threat. The tanks would still be threatened, but the squishies won't get obliterated by those hits. This in turn, means that the squishies do not have to cling to their own survivability tools as much as they currently have to, freeing up greater variety in viable playstyles - squishies wouldn't need to cc everything most of the time in order to survive or use a mandatory shield gate loadouts in order to survive endgame content (which is a mechanic that is no longer needed and can be deleted along with the imbalances it brings).  They can now take on enemies without the constant cc (or other survivability tools eg stealth) as well and an enemy that wasn't caught in the cc isn't a death sentence anymore without shield gating. Constant cc could still be an option, but it isn't vastly more effective anymore. The outliers are brought closer to the baseline, which is healthy for balance.

What you somehow missed, was the net result being a buff to squishies' durability in comparison to tanks and content. What you missed was me saying these changes can allow for squishies to not get obliterated anymore, ie to not get one-shot and as a result, not having to cling to their survivability tools. The whole thread is aimed at eliminating the threat of one-shot deaths, which in turn would open up greater diversity in play, but again, you were so blinded by the how, you couldn't even see it, despite me repeating it over and over.

 

25 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Yet, those things occur in games and people still ask for "Endgame".  You know why? Because they already completed it.
Endgame, put simply, doesn't exist.
You are welcome to hang your stocking and wait for it though...

If players engaged with endgame content and grew tired of said endgame content, it again doesn't mean the endgame content... *poof*... magically disappears. it means they engaged with endgame content and grew tired of it. Players who like the game will then request more endgame content. Not a hard concept to grasp...

[xxvaderxxar]

On 2022-09-05 at 7:04 PM, Silligoose said:

Since it allows for less resources to be dedicated to durability within builds in order to be durable enough to tank incoming damage on repeat, it allows for more resources to be spent on strength, efficiency, range, duration, damage etc which has further exacerbated power creep - shield gating has contributed to the player's ability to push out more damage, cc for longer, spam abilities more often and affect greater areas.

Since shield gating is a far more effective method of durability than higher shield/hp/armour builds in situations where frames get pushed to their limit,  the vast majority of frames, playing towards the limit of potential, play very similarly. What is the most important factor in dealing with incoming damage when using a glass cannon? Speed? Positioning? No, shield gating. What is the most important factor in dealing with incoming damage when using a healing frame such as Oberon? Healing to allow one to tank more damage? No, shield gating. What is the most important factor in dealing with incoming damage when using more tanky frames such as Wukong? Cloud Walker? Defy and the associated armour bonus? No, shield gating. What is the most important factor in dealing with incoming damage when using extremely tanky frames like Trinity or Nezha, or even Rhino or Revenant? Is it their innate tankiness via stats or DR, or even the more broken mechanics associated with Iron Skin or Mezmer Skin? Nope, shield gating. What is the most important factor in dealing with incoming damage when using a frame with invisibility? You guessed it - it is shield gating, again. All those other mechanics and survivability characteristics innate to various frames are secondary to shield gating, in that the frames can do without those unique survivability mechanics, but they cannot do without shield gating. One can argue there are nuanced differences with some frames due to their own invulnerability/survivability mechanics and I would agree, but at the end of the day those mechanics are not deciding factors and as a result, the vast majority of frames play very, very similarly, which in turn leads to diversity in play being far below what it can be, what it should be.

Let's say DE decides they really want to present an engaging endgame. An endgame that pushes players. In order to do that, the content they present needs to be able to pose a very real threat to players, but there is little threat experienced when players have access to effective immortality loops, of which shield gating is one (barring toxin damage). On top of that, the play will be very similar, to the extent that a player can pick Mesa, Khora, Saryn, Banshee, Vauban, Revenant or almost any other frame, run the EXACT same pathing and be successful. It is pretty stupid for a "glass cannon" to be able to use the exact same pathing and tank the exact same amount of damage as a "tank", because it means regardless of the frame chosen, play isn't very diverse.

The only way Warframe can have an engaging, diverse endgame, is for DE to render invulnerability mechanics moot and when a developer needs to render a mechanic moot in order to present more diversity, challenge and engagement, it is a clear sign the the mechanic is imbalanced and that the mechanic needs to be addressed.

Extremely well put.

There are 4 factors that define or that SHOULD define a warframe

-How it Manages its survivability/sustain.

-How it Manages its resources.

-How it does damage.

-How it provides utility.

For the longest time DE has failed to recognize this and has carried on with VERY OUTDATED models. Energy in most frames works as ammunition, rather than a resource that should be intrinsic to its game play. Most dont even have a resource mechanic relying entirely on the same ARCANE and many energy intensive frames are flat out unplayable with out it. Instead of being something to suplement the frame resources it homogenizes how frames work/generate resources, same for focus schools.

This same thinking goes for Shield gating, on top of working against other mechanics, it makes every frame Manage its survivability the exact same way and be exactly as survivable.

In a world where shield gating make everyone unkillable, there can not be tanks or glass cannon frames.

 

[Rakosta_Kai]

3 hours ago, Silligoose said:

The 1.3 second constant is how long one's health is immune to damage for, if the full shield gating invulnerability window is activated

Still incorrect— It can also be as little as 0.33 seconds if shields aren't fully refreshed.—You are still assuming that everyone uses Shield-Gating Builds.
If you are going to spout endlessly about something needing to be nerfed then you need to think about how everyone may be impacted.
You don't...

3 hours ago, Silligoose said:

You wouldn't question the 1.3 second constant if you were familiar with shield gating builds. 

I would because I know every player doesn't do it... The fact that you clearly assume every player does it is why your arguments are always so bad.
Every player doesn't do anything the exact same way...
If the issue in question isn't distinctly harmful, I'll always question the merits of a change that affects everyone if it's true intent is only to hamper a few people.

In your case, the arguments simply don't add up. Balance, Diversity, Engagement, and Endgame are nonsense when asking everyone to shoulder the burden for your nebulous ideals.

3 hours ago, Silligoose said:

What you somehow missed, was the net result being a buff to squishies' durability in comparison to tanks and content.

Unfortunately, I haven't missed anything. You can ideologue as much as you like but the core of your ideas remain punitive and myopic which means the results will follow suit.
Myopic:
This is plainly evident in that whatever you assume is happening you assume to be happening unilaterally— That's the very picture of myopic thinking.
"Surely, because I do it, then everyone else does too..."
Punitive:
Nerf X, Nerf Y, Nerf Z...
9 out of 10 times when I see you post you are posting with the intent to complain about a mechanic or ask to get something nerfed.
 
Here's the thing, You are welcome to maintain and espouse any opinion you want... Please understand though that the voiced opinion is subject to scrutiny.
In this case, just like the previous cases, the supports for your various opinions appear to be lacking in everything other than the consistency in which you spout them.

You may now return to your waiting for Endgame...

[Silligoose]

10 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

Still incorrect— It can also be as little as 0.33 seconds if shields aren't fully refreshed
You don't...

14 hours ago, Silligoose said:

The 1.3 second constant is how long one's health is immune to damage for, if the full shield gating invulnerability window is activated.

It is sad to see how you continue in your deceitful ways in a desperate attempt to show what I stated was incorrect.

 

10 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

You are still assuming that everyone uses Shield-Gating Builds.
If you are going to spout endlessly about something needing to be nerfed then you need to think about how everyone may be impacted.
You don't...

20 hours ago, Silligoose said:

so those who do not have the time, or are not yet at end-game levels of power regarding their builds

It is very clear that I am aware that everyone does not make use of shield gating builds, because some can't, as they have not progressed to that point yet, but here we are again, with you creating a false narrative, attributing it to me, and then attempting to debate it: You are debating your own fantasies.

The popularity of a mechanic has little bearing on whether it is broken; factors such as the potential upper limits of performance attainable relative to other options, or relative effort required to achieve certain levels of performance comparable to other options, along with other metrics, are far more important factors than mere popularity. It doesn't matter whether everyone uses shield gating builds.

I do think about how nerfing different mechanics can affect players - this is demonstrated in our very conversation. It is demonstrated in various threads in which I discuss rebalances. You may be able to see that if you ever manage to look past your own delusions and the fantasies you create regarding other people's opinions.

10 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

Unfortunately, I haven't missed anything. You can ideologue as much as you like but the core of your ideas remain punitive and myopic which means the results will follow suit.
Myopic:
This is plainly evident in that whatever you assume is happening you assume to be happening unilaterally— That's the very picture of myopic thinking.
"Surely, because I do it, then everyone else does too..."
Punitive:
Nerf X, Nerf Y, Nerf Z...
9 out of 10 times when I see you post you are posting with the intent to complain about a mechanic or ask to get something nerfed.
 
Here's the thing, You are welcome to maintain and espouse any opinion you want... Please understand though that the voiced opinion is subject to scrutiny.
In this case, just like the previous cases, the supports for your various opinions appear to be lacking in everything other than the consistency in which you spout them.

You may now return to your waiting for Endgame...

Let me note this down and file it:

A player that has repeatedly shown a tendency to create delusional narratives of what I write, at times in complete opposition with what I've stated, proceeded to attribute those narratives to me, subsequently started debating these fantasies of theirs and came to the conclusion that their fantasies were short sighted.

 

You aren't scrutinising my opinion. You are scrutinising false narratives you've created and attributed to me. You are scrutinising your own fairy tales, your own delusions.

 

[Rakosta_Kai]

3 hours ago, Silligoose said:

It is sad to see how you continue in your deceitful ways in a desperate attempt to show what I stated was incorrect.

Because the things you say are never actually complete, as such, they aren't correct.
You say just enough to sell your idea of your motive and leave the real stuff out.
Some would call that deceitful...
 

3 hours ago, Silligoose said:

It is very clear that I am aware that everyone does not make use of shield gating builds,

Not according to any of your commentary so far... Were it actually clear to you then you never would have broached the subject to begin with.

While I think you have every right to your opinions.— When they have a CTA in them then they should be scrutinized and your ideas fell apart under scrutiny.

• You've put forward your idea.
• It fell apart under scrutiny.
• You got feedback.
• Now take that stuff back to the lab and examine where you messed up.

Perhaps that "Diversity, Engagement, and Balance" you talked about actually only comes from within and the real gift is the friends made along the way, or whatever.
 

3 hours ago, Silligoose said:

Let me note this down and file it:

I think you should definitely do that— Perhaps that will help you make more balanced suggestions in the future...
 

[Silligoose]

43 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Because the things you say are never actually complete, as such, they aren't correct.
You say just enough to sell your idea of your motive and leave the real stuff out.
Some would call that deceitful...

Every time you attempt to "correct" me, all I have to do is quote the rest of my passage you purposefully leave out in order to create a deceitful, false narrative. Sometimes you just pull the narrative out of thin air.

43 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Not according to any of your commentary so far... Were it actually clear to you then you never would have broached the subject to begin with.

While I think you have every right to your opinions.— When they have a CTA in them then they should be scrutinized and your ideas fell apart under scrutiny.

• You've put forward your idea.
• It fell apart under scrutiny.
• You got feedback.
• Now take that stuff back to the lab and examine where you messed up.

Perhaps that "Diversity, Engagement, and Balance" you talked about actually only comes from within and the real gift is the friends made along the way, or whatever.

All you've scrutinised is your own delusions, which I've shown 🤣

You've demonstrated both a lack of knowledge on the subject matter and unwillingness to be a genuine participant in debate.

[jesusdh]

Oh, you mean the dragon key EXPLOIT? Then no, the only thing that needs to be fixed is the exploit itself. Making dragon key disable shield gate for example.

[rainy]

Styanax passive is a trap, don't build for it, use decaying key as normal. You do however need to build against his much higher than normal base shields. Passive grants 25% mod CC per 1000 shields, and 50% for spreaguns. With the absolute highest shield modding and overshields, you can get 3925 shields, ~98% critical chance for your normal gun, or ~194% cc for your speargun.

With 250 shields base, he has 750 at rank 30. With decaying key you have 750 x 0.25 = 187.5 shields.

Rally allegedly restores 50 shields per kill from any team member. 187.5 / 50 = 375% required strength to rebuild shield gate from each kill. That's a high breakpoint. 

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, Silligoose said:

kek kek kek

Do bear in mind that I am talking to you directly, I am not cozening to an audience insomuch as I have pointed out the flaws in your nerf-herding attempts.
Players bothering to read this stuff will make their own decisions about truth or falsehoods so all the yammering you're doing now is pointless.

Be mad. But keep my name off all the rabid posturing at this point...


 

[(XBOX)phire42]

I have a potential solution... An overshield. It is a standard size for all frames. It prevents one shot kills. It takes a standard amount of time to refill to max... So the more shields you have in your normal shield pool the higher the chance that the overshield will be maxed again before your health pool is touched. All things that replenish shields (like brief respite etc) apply to the overshield first so if you put in mods to support the shield gate you can still restore them quickly... This way shield gating remains and it rewards you for large shield pools instead of small shield pools. Just a thought. 

[Jarriaga]

58 minutes ago, rainy said:

use decaying key as normal.

Use an exploit that will be patched out sooner or later as normal?

[rainy]

2 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Use an exploit that will be patched out sooner or later as normal?

It's been normal for years and yes, because most frames don't stand a normal chance in high levels. That's why it was introduced in the first place, as opposed to nerfing the exponential enemy damage scaling, or making health and shields themselves actually useful.

[Jarriaga]

12 minutes ago, rainy said:

It's been normal for years

An exploit born from DE's oversight has never been, is not, and will never be "normal". They have a track record of introducing exploits from unrelated mechanics being added which in turn make other items in the same category stand out as inconsistent despite the original item not being changed at all. Dragon keys are meant to be handicaps, all other 3 remains as handicaps, DDC no longer became a handicap due to a different mechanic being introduced to the game (Shield gating). 

Thus, it is an exploit. Or at the very least, an unintentional oversight that is an outlier when considering all other items in its own category.

12 minutes ago, rainy said:

because most frames don't stand a normal chance in high levels.

That does not change its categorization as an exploit born from oversight.

12 minutes ago, rainy said:

That's why it was introduced in the first place

This is gaslighting and revisionist history. The DDK existed before shield gating and has not been patched or touched or updated in years even before the introducing of shield gating. There is no universe or parallel reality in which DE made this intentional by willfully deciding to buff a handicap item so it in turns provide near-immortality by means of adding a new mechanic while leaving all other items in the same category as handicaps. That's what "that's why it was introduced" (Ergo, intentional) would have entailed.

12 minutes ago, rainy said:

or making health and shields themselves actually useful.

I agree with this. 

[rainy]

28 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

That does not change its categorization as an exploit born from oversight.

I'm sorry, DE is notoriously poor with communicating what is intended and what is not (even internally), so we kind of take this as "intended unless stated otherwise". I also don't see how invulnerability is necessarily an issue for them. They literally buffed revenant in this patch to now be effectively invincible. Vazarin did not always make yourself invulnerable too, but it has since like, Scarlet Spear.

This has been known about and equally complained about for how stupid it is all that time, and we are still here.

Additionally, Decaying key is like the lowest possible investment you could make to your build. It's not semi-permanent like a Forma, it's a gear you can toggle between missions.

28 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

This is gaslighting and revisionist history. The DDK existed before shield gating and has not been patched or touched or updated in years even before the introducing of shield gating. There is no universe or parallel reality in which DE made this intentional by willfully deciding to buff a handicap item so it in turns provide near-immortality by means of adding a new mechanic while leaving all other items in the same category as handicaps. That's what "that's why it was introduced" (Ergo, intentional) would have entailed.

Okay, I think I see your issue. It's specifically that decaying key unwittingly turned into a buff rather than a curse. My point was more about shield gating in general, which decaying key is kind of a symptom of. I don't think invulnerability, especially sustainable invulnerability, has a place in any video game.

Shield gating was introduced because half of the game's warframes have 100 base health and 100 base shields, and Steel Path would result in many one-shot deaths.

Shield regeneration mechanics were subsequently nerfed to avoid the sustainable gate, such as Rakta Dark Dagger, but the Augur set and Arcane Aegis were knowingly left in place.

I'm not disagreeing that it's a failure of game design, but it's also what DE has knowingly left alone in the game for a long time now.

 

[jesusdh]

1 hour ago, rainy said:

Styanax passive is a trap, don't build for it, use decaying key as normal.  

I don't use exploits, I play legit. Thank you very much.

[Silligoose]

1 hour ago, Padre_Akais said:

Do bear in mind that I am talking to you directly, I am not cozening to an audience insomuch as I have pointed out the flaws in your nerf-herding attempts.
Players bothering to read this stuff will make their own decisions about truth or falsehoods so all the yammering you're doing now is pointless.

Be mad. But keep my name off all the rabid posturing at this point...


 

Lol you are just some poster on some forum of a game. While I find it interesting to see how different people are on forums such as these, especially those who don't appear to be here to discuss the subject matter, I don't get mad at the silliness you've displayed.

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

An exploit born from DE's oversight has never been, is not, and will never be "normal". They have a track record of introducing exploits from unrelated mechanics being added which in turn make other items in the same category stand out as inconsistent despite the original item not being changed at all. Dragon keys are meant to be handicaps, all other 3 remains as handicaps, DDC no longer became a handicap due to a different mechanic being introduced to the game (Shield gating). 

Thus, it is an exploit. Or at the very least, an unintentional oversight that is an outlier when considering all other items in its own category.

Whilst I100% agree that Dragon Keys should serve as handicaps and truly hope that DE will address the impact of the Decaying Dragon Key, after addressing imbalances pertaining to relative frame durability within the roster, I honestly don't think it is going to happen anytime soon:

Despite the tweet above, I actually also think it was an oversight, but it seems they are aware and didn't really care, but we'll see what happens in the future now that there have been some changes within DE.

[Rakosta_Kai]

22 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

Lol you are just some poster on some forum of a game. While I find it interesting to see how different people are on forums such as these, especially those who don't appear to be here to discuss the subject matter, I don't get mad at the silliness you've displayed.

I don't particularly care 😀
Take that as the response for whatever you posted in my PM as well...

[Silligoose]

19 hours ago, xxvaderxxar said:

Extremely well put.

There are 4 factors that define or that SHOULD define a warframe

-How it Manages its survivability/sustain.

-How it Manages its resources.

-How it does damage.

-How it provides utility.

For the longest time DE has failed to recognize this and has carried on with VERY OUTDATED models. Energy in most frames works as ammunition, rather than a resource that should be intrinsic to its game play. Most dont even have a resource mechanic relying entirely on the same ARCANE and many energy intensive frames are flat out unplayable with out it. Instead of being something to suplement the frame resources it homogenizes how frames work/generate resources, same for focus schools.

This same thinking goes for Shield gating, on top of working against other mechanics, it makes every frame Manage its survivability the exact same way and be exactly as survivable.

In a world where shield gating make everyone unkillable, there can not be tanks or glass cannon frames.

 

Thank you very much and well said.

It feels like the energy system in Warframe was set to work as a pseudo cooldown system for abilities when I started playing a few years ago and maybe it did act more like one even prior to me starting, but somewhere along the lines it seems the plot. In my opinion, early progression players are a little too limited regarding opportunities to use abilities due to scarcity of energy for them and their inability to build for high efficiency, whilst we later get to a point where energy is extremely bountiful, and builds can become very energy efficient. The system feels a little unrefined to me.

I don't know if you've experienced this in the same way I have, but one of the silliest feelings I've experienced when it comes to shield gating play, is when I get myself in a situation where I get overwhelmed by enemies and get into that loop where I have to fully replenish shields within the 1.3 second window numerous times in succession. It's happened with various frames and in those moments, when I'm just activating an ability repeatedly, not for the ability's innate, unique value or mechanic, but rather to reactivate full shield gating, I've found it actually completely breaks my immersion, because the brokenness of the mechanic and the fact that I'd be doing the exact same thing with the majority of frames in that situation, is staring me straight in the face.

That ties in with your commentary regarding homogenization, which I personally feel has become a little too rampant across various mechanics.

[Jarriaga]

1 hour ago, rainy said:

It's specifically that decaying key unwittingly turned into a buff rather than a curse.

Correct. I would not have an issue about DE's intentionality if they introduced a mod with a text description that does exactly what the DDK does right now.

My problem is with the DDK itself. 

I also agree with you that full, sustained invulnerability is not good game design.

37 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

Whilst I100% agree that Dragon Keys should serve as handicaps and truly hope that DE will address the impact of the Decaying Dragon Key, after addressing imbalances pertaining to relative frame durability within the roster, I honestly don't think it is going to happen anytime soon:

Despite the tweet above, I actually also think it was an oversight, but it seems they are aware and didn't really care, but we'll see what happens in the future now that there have been some changes within DE.

Agreed. Sad, but fair argument.

[rainy]

9 hours ago, jesusdh said:

I don't use exploits, I play legit. Thank you very much.

I wish you the best of luck in the Archon fight. Basically impossible to not use invincibility. 

[racooperii]

50 minutes ago, rainy said:

I wish you the best of luck in the Archon fight. Basically impossible to not use invincibility. 

What? Is this serious. It was not at all that hard.

[Sojufueled]

On 2022-09-04 at 7:13 AM, cute_moth.npc said:

How would you like them to fix it?

I would put a cooldown on the gate that isn't reset on fill, I would reduce charge delay and increase charge speed, then I would introduce some kind of attentiation stat (moddable) to shields — essentially make them in a soft sense a little like mesmer skin where they can't be torn down in just a couple shots.

They're kind of designed in the halo/gears model at present, but warframe doesn't play like that and sightlines are too open. Shields, at their base functionality don't fit the design of the game.

[jesusdh]

8 hours ago, rainy said:

I wish you the best of luck in the Archon fight. Basically impossible to not use invincibility. 

You mean the fight that I did 4 times to help friends without using that exploit and in one of then I actually used Styanax just for the fun of it? I think you need to reconsider your concept of "impossible". 

[rainy]

2 hours ago, jesusdh said:

You mean the fight that I did 4 times to help friends without using that exploit and in one of then I actually used Styanax just for the fun of it? I think you need to reconsider your concept of "impossible". 

I was also using Styanax, but I had Arcane Aegis, and if there weren't enough enemies to activate it his shields would quickly deplete even with adaptation.

Edit: Built for shields, my capacity was 2300 shield.