(Survey) Are you for (+) or against (-) an item for changing a Riven Attribute?

[Numerounius]

On 2023-01-21 at 2:33 PM, Nero said:

Let's do a little poll: would you be for (+) or against (-) an item in the ingame market and/or acquirable through something like Archon Hunt that would allow you to change a single attribute on a Riven?

 

No, because you said in-game market which does opens up a whole 'nother can of worms. I also think trying to limit riven rolling to one option is not ideal

 

On 2023-01-21 at 2:33 PM, Nero said:

• To limit its usage and highlight its rarity, consider the loot chance of legendary and a price of 250+ Platinum with a limit of 1 item per month.
•  

Plat is also a no, it should be gameplay only

 

On 2023-01-21 at 2:33 PM, Nero said:

• The item could be used in the mod section and only applied to maximized Rivens, since the Fusion option could then be replaced here.
•  

If something was to happen, making it similar to regular rolling like this would be the best way of going about doing it.

 

On 2023-01-21 at 2:33 PM, Nero said:

• It would be conceivable that for Rivens with only 2 or 3 attributes so far, further attributes could be selected for the previously unused positions.
•  

If a said system was to be implemented I'd want to use it for mods that aren't pure DPS increases. Like using it to force an combo mod or a reload mod and not forcing multishot.

 

On 2023-01-21 at 2:33 PM, Nero said:

• In order not to make Kuva farming obsolete, you shouldn't have to decide between cycling OR using the item: The chosen attribute should be permanent.

 

Kuva has many sources, I hope that it can still be kept a similar way rather than leaving a new method dominating everything else.

 

On 2023-01-21 at 2:33 PM, Nero said:

Background information:

 

I think making some sort of roll-based system could be used to help incentivize players continue rolling rivens for stats rather than waiting to snipe up perfect rivens as soon as they appear after someone completed second dream.

 

 

 

[PublikDomain]

18 hours ago, Voltage said:

Trading is not trivial,

Buying some plat and sending a PM is absolutely trivial compared to rolling Rivens yourself. It's even trivial compared to grinding and selling items to other players. Unless it takes you more than a year and a half of constant effort to buy an unrolled Rifle Riven from someone, you're beating the snot out of the RNG involved with just acquisition. That isn't even getting into rolling.

18 hours ago, Voltage said:

All my suggestions revolve around more rolls, not better chances or Riven "crafting" (creating the Riven you want over time). I like that the perfect rolls are just completely random and rare to turn up.

Were we reading the same thread? Like, I'm being honest here. This is directly from the thread you posted:

Quote

My proposition is to combine all Riven Mods categories into a single Veiled Riven Mod item. The weapon chosen is still random, but within the category of the weapon a player installs the Veiled Riven onto and completes the challenge on. This translates to keeping the healthy diversity in Rivens across the game, but players have more reliable farming for Veiled Rivens and increased chances to unveiling Rivens for a specific weapon category.

This gives you much better chances of getting a Riven for specific weapons.

Quote

Riven transmutation changes:

• Reduce transmutation cost from 4 Rivens down to 3

So does this.

Quote

What I propose for a new mechanic is the ability to manipulate the features of your Riven with Kuva and Riven Slivers. These features would be the Riven Mod polarity and the magnitude of Riven attributes within their stat range. Allowing players to progress on the quality of their stats and polarity after they have stats they like would be enjoyable for players to get the most out of the system. When changing attribute stats, players would be allowed to add or subtract stat percentages at a rate of +/- 10% of the current value bound by the minimum and maximum possible stats of the weapon.

This lets players "craft" their Rivens as you put it and makes perfect rolls not random.

I didn't write any of this, you did. And what's written isn't all that much different than what I want to see. All of that makes acquiring Rivens easier, which is the same as what I want.

18 hours ago, Voltage said:

Rivens certainly don't help the situation, but they are honestly archaic in comparison to the other powercreep available to the player.

And they still contribute. More importantly, they contribute randomly and unpredictably, which the other things you mention don't. A player using a Primary Arcane can be accounted for and predicted, Rivens can't. That's the whole reason they're not considered for balance in the first place!

But if you just care about the build multipliers being too big, Rivens would contribute even more to this problem with the reduction or removal of Disposition that you suggest. Narrowing the Disposition range from 0.5-1.55 to 0.75-1.25 like in your thread would just buff meta Rivens and nerf non-meta Rivens and would make the whole situation worse.

18 hours ago, Voltage said:

The system has given me a reason to farm past completion of systems to trade for Platinum and spend later on Rivens that I want for my collection and usage. These mods have kept me playing, and I want to protect one of the only end-game item the game has to offer anymore that really separates yourself from the rest. And yeah, no S#&$ I want to protect my investments. Hundreds of thousands of Platinum is as ludicrous amount. It took serious time and patience to maintain Rivens through multiple major updates changing our mods around, arbitrary Disposition updates, and the powercreep added since I got a Riven from The War Within on the first day.

I know. And like I said, I'm sorry but I don't care. It's not that I'm "throwing rocks" at you for feeling that way, I just don't care. I'm not playing the game to look at your portfolio, no one is but you.

[(XBOX)Azurasteel]

Against -  the system is fine as it is. Not every riven needs to be a god roll.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2023-01-22 at 4:51 PM, Voltage said:

stuff

> "this boils down to. . ."

That's a blatant straw man if there ever was one. My point wasn't and isn't that simply ah yes, a live service game can just, as you so eloquently put it, "bend us over". 

DE is not made up of infallible creatures. DE is a company made up of human beings who will inevitably, occasionally, make straight up bad decisions, or find solutions to problems that were not previously thought of. Whether something is or isn't beneficial to the overall health of the game is often debatable, but what isn't debatable is that "they shouldn't change a system because people are attached to it" doesn't always fly. And sometimes there are perfectly valid reasons for that that are more complicated than "bending us over just because". Some people were Big Mad(tm) about the arcanes being brought into eidolon hunts because they missed being among only a few players who knew how to run trials and get them effectively, and missed being able to sell things like energize for 4000 plat. But that doesn't mean that the change was necessarily bad for the game, just because some people felt "bent over". Rivens are "accessible" sure. But that doesn't mean the system can't, or shouldn't, be better.

>"you comment on effort not being rewarded but. . ."

Guy works in a factory for 10 years. Every day he has to pick up heavy boxes and move them from one conveyor belt to another. Then one day management decides it would be a good idea to put in a mechanical hoist, so whoever works that job doesn't have to spend so much effort and risk hurting themselves. Boy it sure woulda been nice if they thought of that years ago. Boy it sure seems unfair that Guy had to do it the hardway for so long and now whatever shmuck comes along next gets to do it the easy way for the same result. But what, that means they shouldn't optimize the process? Guy 2# should have to keep doing it the hard way just because Guy 1# did? Should Guy 1# just have to do it the hard way forever and ever because of the time he already did it that way? I find that line of thinking to be a joke. And if anything the list of examples you gave like say liches being the way they were before valence fusion, or larvling having weapons above their heads were a thing, just gives credence to the fact that precedence exists to change the system even though people did invest into the current system, "the hard way".

>"it doesn't cause problems at all. . ."

There's a lot of wonky S#&$ that happens right now though. Do you want a list here or should I make my own thread?

>"what is unfair about the current situation?"

The fact that there is no linear connection between effort/reward in the riven system. at least not nearly to the same degree as there is in every other system in the game. If I want a gold part it might take 1 relic crack or 10 or more but that isn't nearly the same as the fact that chasing a "god roll" god forbid any particular roll, could take 900 kuva or it could take literally millions and even if I got millions there's no guarantee I'd still not have a **** roll to show for it. There's other issues too but let's start with that one. That's not even accounting for things like trading or damage. "there's nothing in the game that unfairly treats players who don't have rivens let alone the high end. . ." the differences in weapon usability/damage output/"how good it is" can vary wildly. It might not be "necessary" but significant differences can and do exist. I'm less concerned, personally, about what is or isn't doable with or without rivens than I am about the first issue. 

>"why do players deserve rivens to be as trivial as forma. . . "cost per riven for specific stats will be ludicrously expensive or. . ."

I find this to be a flawed supposition because it implies there's no room for the two extremes to meet in the middle. Let's say there's a 1 to 10 scale and at "1" it's the way it is now and at 10 for 900 kuva you could choose everything at once, whether it's 2 or 3 buffs, whether there's a curse, what those all are *and* they're all gonna be maxed values if you want to boot. Who says it's gotta be one extreme or the other? That sounds alot like a false dichotomy. 

It doesn't make sense to pretend that other options, including options nobody in this thread including me have thought of yet, couldn't exist. 

>"in your boomer trolley problem. . ." "if you feel damaged by the riven system. . ." "you're not entitled to the same riven progress. . ."

A) the swipe at DE there doesn't mean the point isn't true. The point of the boomer trolley problem is that "it sucked for me so it should suck for everyone else" is selfish, silly, and not constructive. The factory worker metaphor represents the same point. 

B) Sure. just like if you feel "bent over" by this hypothetical or any actual change you're free to take your ball and go home. 

C) You're not entitled to get a Thing(tm) and be the only one with the Thing(tm). Getting a thing the Hard Way(tm) doesn't mean that everyone else who ever wants the Thing(tm) should have to get it the same way. 

>"Riven mods are magnitudes different from other systems and their previous behavior is also wrong. . ." "it's very rude to launch a system in a grindy state, *intentionally*. . ."you can reach the same point as me" "I don't care that you find me elitist for valuing my inventory at this stage"

A) yes they magnitudes different. The RNG walls involved are exponentially more obnoxious than any other system I've seen DE re work in the past. If anything there's a more pressing need for attention here. No there previous behavior isn't necessarily "wrong". B) intentional? C) To a point sure, if we ignore the fact that there's so much RNG and luck involved that your experience and the amount of time and effort to get to "your point" (whatever that is) could vary absolutely wildly. 

D) I don't find you elitist for "valuing your inventory", another straw man, what I find elitist is that your objection to changing the riven system is based solely on not wanting other players to have what you have. Not unless they also go through The Hard Way(tm) and even then if enough people did to take away your perceived unicorn status I don't think you'd like it. Nobody is talking about taking away or nerfing your inventory.

>"publik donain has a much better. . ." "your take is the exact garbage" ". . . filth. . ."  "simply because I dont align with everyone else" if you put 2000 hours into an optional certification then the rules change and I can come along and. . ." "that's not entitlement or gatekeeping" "

A) I'm not here to score street cred points with you, him or anyone else. I straight up do not care if you think his post is better or not. Maybe by putting time and effort into this reply I'll get somewhere with you. Frankly, I doubt it, but even if I don't, other people will read it and they can decide what to walk away from this with themselves. 

B) Ah yes. you disagree with me so my take is "garbage". "filth". the mentality you're demonstrating in this thread is the same you got lit up for in that thread so I'm not surprised you're having flashbacks nor am I surprised you're having similar reactions nor am I surprised you don't particularly like it. 

C) let's say tat exact thing happened. Say I spent 2000 hours of my life to get a certification then the rules change and all of a sudden somebody could come along and get the same certification in way less time. 

And? 

I got to make use of the certification long before they did, no?

I still have the certification, nothing was taken away from me, no?

If the rules *can* be changed to allow someone to get the same certification in less time, why *shouldn't* they be? Unless there's a reason other then "it should take as long as it took me or its UNFAIR" then maybe the rules *should* be changed. On the flipside, how would you feel if you wanted a certification to do something, and it took 2000 hours to get the certification because that was the best idea The Powers That Be(tm) had when they set the standards and rules for getting the certification, and there was some back and forth discussion about changing the certification process to be more streamlined, efficient, and take less time, because maybe it taking 2000 hours is excessive. 

And some guy immediately starts shouting down the other side and getting pissy not because of a safety concern, or a quality concern, or a competency concern, but simply because by god he just can't stand the thought of anyone else not having to do it The Hard Way. 

[(XBOX)DragonMan 2700]

What I'd like to see improved in the Riven System is a way to lock one stat per roll.

What I propose is that Palladino in Iron Wake can craft us what I'll call a "Riven Needle" by combining Riven slivers & Endo with crafting conversation of 1, 10, 100 (for the folks that have alot of slivers)

So, the way I see the Riven Needles working

Your Riven has +CC but -Multi-shot  T_T (Why does god hate me)  so you use a Riven Needle to pin the +CC stat for your next roll (you keep the +CC) which uses/consumes the Riven Needle.

In the events that the next roll naturally had the pinned stat and was greater than it, then it takes the higher value if lower than you keep your original stat % in this way you aways get the best value stat.

I also think it should work on negative stats as well.   

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

On 2023-01-29 at 1:25 AM, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

> "this boils down to. . ."

That's a blatant straw man if there ever was one. My point wasn't and isn't that simply ah yes, a live service game can just, as you so eloquently put it, "bend us over". 

DE is not made up of infallible creatures. DE is a company made up of human beings who will inevitably, occasionally, make straight up bad decisions, or find solutions to problems that were not previously thought of. Whether something is or isn't beneficial to the overall health of the game is often debatable, but what isn't debatable is that "they shouldn't change a system because people are attached to it" doesn't always fly. And sometimes there are perfectly valid reasons for that that are more complicated than "bending us over just because". Some people were Big Mad(tm) about the arcanes being brought into eidolon hunts because they missed being among only a few players who knew how to run trials and get them effectively, and missed being able to sell things like energize for 4000 plat. But that doesn't mean that the change was necessarily bad for the game, just because some people felt "bent over". Rivens are "accessible" sure. But that doesn't mean the system can't, or shouldn't, be better.

>"you comment on effort not being rewarded but. . ."

Guy works in a factory for 10 years. Every day he has to pick up heavy boxes and move them from one conveyor belt to another. Then one day management decides it would be a good idea to put in a mechanical hoist, so whoever works that job doesn't have to spend so much effort and risk hurting themselves. Boy it sure woulda been nice if they thought of that years ago. Boy it sure seems unfair that Guy had to do it the hardway for so long and now whatever shmuck comes along next gets to do it the easy way for the same result. But what, that means they shouldn't optimize the process? Guy 2# should have to keep doing it the hard way just because Guy 1# did? Should Guy 1# just have to do it the hard way forever and ever because of the time he already did it that way? I find that line of thinking to be a joke. And if anything the list of examples you gave like say liches being the way they were before valence fusion, or larvling having weapons above their heads were a thing, just gives credence to the fact that precedence exists to change the system even though people did invest into the current system, "the hard way".

>"it doesn't cause problems at all. . ."

There's a lot of wonky S#&$ that happens right now though. Do you want a list here or should I make my own thread?

>"what is unfair about the current situation?"

The fact that there is no linear connection between effort/reward in the riven system. at least not nearly to the same degree as there is in every other system in the game. If I want a gold part it might take 1 relic crack or 10 or more but that isn't nearly the same as the fact that chasing a "god roll" god forbid any particular roll, could take 900 kuva or it could take literally millions and even if I got millions there's no guarantee I'd still not have a **** roll to show for it. There's other issues too but let's start with that one. That's not even accounting for things like trading or damage. "there's nothing in the game that unfairly treats players who don't have rivens let alone the high end. . ." the differences in weapon usability/damage output/"how good it is" can vary wildly. It might not be "necessary" but significant differences can and do exist. I'm less concerned, personally, about what is or isn't doable with or without rivens than I am about the first issue. 

>"why do players deserve rivens to be as trivial as forma. . . "cost per riven for specific stats will be ludicrously expensive or. . ."

I find this to be a flawed supposition because it implies there's no room for the two extremes to meet in the middle. Let's say there's a 1 to 10 scale and at "1" it's the way it is now and at 10 for 900 kuva you could choose everything at once, whether it's 2 or 3 buffs, whether there's a curse, what those all are *and* they're all gonna be maxed values if you want to boot. Who says it's gotta be one extreme or the other? That sounds alot like a false dichotomy. 

It doesn't make sense to pretend that other options, including options nobody in this thread including me have thought of yet, couldn't exist. 

>"in your boomer trolley problem. . ." "if you feel damaged by the riven system. . ." "you're not entitled to the same riven progress. . ."

A) the swipe at DE there doesn't mean the point isn't true. The point of the boomer trolley problem is that "it sucked for me so it should suck for everyone else" is selfish, silly, and not constructive. The factory worker metaphor represents the same point. 

B) Sure. just like if you feel "bent over" by this hypothetical or any actual change you're free to take your ball and go home. 

C) You're not entitled to get a Thing(tm) and be the only one with the Thing(tm). Getting a thing the Hard Way(tm) doesn't mean that everyone else who ever wants the Thing(tm) should have to get it the same way. 

>"Riven mods are magnitudes different from other systems and their previous behavior is also wrong. . ." "it's very rude to launch a system in a grindy state, *intentionally*. . ."you can reach the same point as me" "I don't care that you find me elitist for valuing my inventory at this stage"

A) yes they magnitudes different. The RNG walls involved are exponentially more obnoxious than any other system I've seen DE re work in the past. If anything there's a more pressing need for attention here. No there previous behavior isn't necessarily "wrong". B) intentional? C) To a point sure, if we ignore the fact that there's so much RNG and luck involved that your experience and the amount of time and effort to get to "your point" (whatever that is) could vary absolutely wildly. 

D) I don't find you elitist for "valuing your inventory", another straw man, what I find elitist is that your objection to changing the riven system is based solely on not wanting other players to have what you have. Not unless they also go through The Hard Way(tm) and even then if enough people did to take away your perceived unicorn status I don't think you'd like it. Nobody is talking about taking away or nerfing your inventory.

>"publik donain has a much better. . ." "your take is the exact garbage" ". . . filth. . ."  "simply because I dont align with everyone else" if you put 2000 hours into an optional certification then the rules change and I can come along and. . ." "that's not entitlement or gatekeeping" "

A) I'm not here to score street cred points with you, him or anyone else. I straight up do not care if you think his post is better or not. Maybe by putting time and effort into this reply I'll get somewhere with you. Frankly, I doubt it, but even if I don't, other people will read it and they can decide what to walk away from this with themselves. 

B) Ah yes. you disagree with me so my take is "garbage". "filth". the mentality you're demonstrating in this thread is the same you got lit up for in that thread so I'm not surprised you're having flashbacks nor am I surprised you're having similar reactions nor am I surprised you don't particularly like it. 

C) let's say tat exact thing happened. Say I spent 2000 hours of my life to get a certification then the rules change and all of a sudden somebody could come along and get the same certification in way less time. 

And? 

I got to make use of the certification long before they did, no?

I still have the certification, nothing was taken away from me, no?

If the rules *can* be changed to allow someone to get the same certification in less time, why *shouldn't* they be? Unless there's a reason other then "it should take as long as it took me or its UNFAIR" then maybe the rules *should* be changed. On the flipside, how would you feel if you wanted a certification to do something, and it took 2000 hours to get the certification because that was the best idea The Powers That Be(tm) had when they set the standards and rules for getting the certification, and there was some back and forth discussion about changing the certification process to be more streamlined, efficient, and take less time, because maybe it taking 2000 hours is excessive. 

And some guy immediately starts shouting down the other side and getting pissy not because of a safety concern, or a quality concern, or a competency concern, but simply because by god he just can't stand the thought of anyone else not having to do it The Hard Way. 

It's not that complicated.

Your examples of certifications and factory workers doesn't matter because we're not talking about real life scenarios.

We're talking about this specific intentional slot machine for mod bonuses that everyone has access to if they put the work in. 

You have no right to walk into a casino and ask them to give you money.

No one put a gun to your head and forced you into chasing rivens. Just like no one forces you into downloading the game.

You take your chances like everyone else. MR 8 noobs that barely just started have rolled god roll rivens in my alliance chat. We gave them advice and told them never to reroll that riven again and to ask us before they attempt to sell it. 

You have a ridiculously vast world of options to obtain whatever riven you want. 

The issue I see the most is new or mid tier players that aren't aware of all the ways to obtain rivens or plat, simply aren't ready due to lack of experience, or have no idea what they actually want and just are upset that they can't have something nice.

This is a long term game....learn about it and gather things over time. Focus on something specific and work towards it.

Pick a goal for a weapon or build and make a plan to go after it. It'll take a few weeks or months but that's how it is. 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

It's not that complicated.

Your examples of certifications and factory workers doesn't matter because we're not talking about real life scenarios.

We're talking about this specific intentional slot machine for mod bonuses that everyone has access to if they put the work in. 

You have no right to walk into a casino and ask them to give you money.

No one put a gun to your head and forced you into chasing rivens. Just like no one forces you into downloading the game.

You take your chances like everyone else. MR 8 noobs that barely just started have rolled god roll rivens in my alliance chat. We gave them advice and told them never to reroll that riven again and to ask us before they attempt to sell it. 

You have a ridiculously vast world of options to obtain whatever riven you want. 

The issue I see the most is new or mid tier players that aren't aware of all the ways to obtain rivens or plat, simply aren't ready due to lack of experience, or have no idea what they actually want and just are upset that they can't have something nice.

This is a long term game....learn about it and gather things over time. Focus on something specific and work towards it.

Pick a goal for a weapon or build and make a plan to go after it. It'll take a few weeks or months but that's how it is. 

He's the one that brought up certification as an example, not me. 

I simply responded to his not-good-point. 

And you can be as flippantly dismissive as you like but the point thats that just because someone did something the hard way doesnt mean that everybody else should be obligated to do it the hard way until the end of time. Thats silly.

If you want non real life examples should everyone have to deal with the OG lich system because thats what somebody had to deal with once upon a time?

You seem to assume that i dont already have good rivens, or know how to obtain them. That isnt true. I have a decent collection myself and have bought sold and traded rivens worth many thousands of plat. 

But whether i was the number 1 riven trader on xbox or have never traded one at all, i feel like the points i made still stand.

And i still feel like the riven system being the way it is, is silly, and benefits no one except a small handfull of people in the same way primed chamber being a unicorn for a long time only benefited a small handfull of people. 

Sure. Nobody put a gun to my head and made me do anything in this game but what do you think youre proving by even bringing that up?

Did anybody put a gun to your head and force you to get out of bed this morning?

To check this forum?

To read this thread?

To get salty about my comment?

To come here and spew irrelevant drivel?

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

He's the one that brought up certification as an example, not me. 

I simply responded to his not-good-point. 

And you can be as flippantly dismissive as you like but the point thats that just because someone did something the hard way doesnt mean that everybody else should be obligated to do it the hard way until the end of time. Thats silly.

If you want non real life examples should everyone have to deal with the OG lich system because thats what somebody had to deal with once upon a time?

You seem to assume that i dont already have good rivens, or know how to obtain them. That isnt true. I have a decent collection myself and have bought sold and traded rivens worth many thousands of plat. 

But whether i was the number 1 riven trader on xbox or have never traded one at all, i feel like the points i made still stand.

And i still feel like the riven system being the way it is, is silly, and benefits no one except a small handfull of people in the same way primed chamber being a unicorn for a long time only benefited a small handfull of people. 

Sure. Nobody put a gun to my head and made me do anything in this game but what do you think youre proving by even bringing that up?

Did anybody put a gun to your head and force you to get out of bed this morning?

To check this forum?

To read this thread?

To get salty about my comment?

To come here and spew irrelevant drivel?

There is no "hard way" though. There's nothing hard about obtaining decent rivens.

That's why I say a player must not be at a certain level because that's the only way one could call the system difficult.

What's the goal? How long are you staying in missions? Are you soloing 6 hour runs or using a full 4 man team? 

Rivens are a bonus to work on to tweak builds but are not needed. 

You should have a good grasp and know what you're doing before you even worry about rivens, just like a person should have their life and finances in order before they even think about stepping in a casino.

 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

There is no "hard way" though. There's nothing hard about obtaining decent rivens.

That's why I say a player must not be at a certain level because that's the only way one could call the system difficult.

What's the goal? How long are you staying in missions? Are you soloing 6 hour runs or using a full 4 man team? 

Rivens are a bonus to work on to tweak builds but are not needed. 

You should have a good grasp and know what you're doing before you even worry about rivens, just like a person should have their life and finances in order before they even think about stepping in a casino.

 

>"there is no hard way".

This is intentionally intellectually dishonest. 

If you want a specific roll, your options are,

A) roll the dice with lottery ticket tier RNG, multiple layers of RNG or

B) hope you can find the roll youre after in trade chat and unless you find someone gullible, pay a high amount of plat for it.

Sure. Theres different ways to get plat. You can flip rivens you can sell prime sets or you can say its worth it to just buy the plat with real money. 

Ive bought many nice rivens myself using all those methods. 

But, to sit here and pretend that isnt "the hard way" when DE could add something like stat locking or better odds or some kind of refinement system, is just dishonest dude. Theres an almost infinite number of ways to make the system less obfuscated by multiple layers of RNG. 

 

>"but you dont *need* rivens to-"

Irrelevant and I dont care. 

>"rivens are a"- 

Irrelevant and dont care.

"You should have a good grasp of"

Thinly veiled condescending nonsense. Lol. Who says I dont? Who says i dont already have a collection of rivens? 

Who says my understanding of the game and riven collection isnt better than yours?

Ah yes. Because only an inferior nooblet would dare disagree with such a high and mighty expert as yourself right? Give me a break.

Maybe you and voltage should spend some time looking in a mirror and question why youre so concerned about protecting the sanctity of your special unique unicorn status regarding something so trivial in a videogame.

 

I mean thats what gets me. It isnt a debate about what is or isnt OP or anything that actually matters, its just a completely selfish sense of "no I WANNA FEEL SPECIAL". 

 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

16 minutes ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

>"there is no hard way".

This is intentionally intellectually dishonest. 

If you want a specific roll, your options are,

A) roll the dice with lottery ticket tier RNG, multiple layers of RNG or

B) hope you can find the roll youre after in trade chat and unless you find someone gullible, pay a high amount of plat for it.

Sure. Theres different ways to get plat. You can flip rivens you can sell prime sets or you can say its worth it to just buy the plat with real money. 

Ive bought many nice rivens myself using all those methods. 

But, to sit here and pretend that isnt "the hard way" when DE could add something like stat locking or better odds or some kind of refinement system, is just dishonest dude. Theres an almost infinite number of ways to make the system less obfuscated by multiple layers of RNG. 

 

>"but you dont *need* rivens to-"

Irrelevant and I dont care. 

>"rivens are a"- 

Irrelevant and dont care.

"You should have a good grasp of"

Thinly veiled condescending nonsense. Lol. Who says I dont? Who says i dont already have a collection of rivens? 

Who says my understanding of the game and riven collection isnt better than yours?

Ah yes. Because only an inferior nooblet would dare disagree with such a high and mighty expert as yourself right? Give me a break.

Maybe you and voltage should spend some time looking in a mirror and question why youre so concerned about protecting the sanctity of your special unique unicorn status regarding something so trivial in a videogame.

 

I mean thats what gets me. It isnt a debate about what is or isnt OP or anything that actually matters, its just a completely selfish sense of "no I WANNA FEEL SPECIAL". 

 

Maybe you should ask DE why they've also disagreed with you and anyone else that's asked that few years. 

You do realize it's not just me, Voltage and 2 other top tier echelon of players, correct? How would me and a few other people stop DE from doing whatever they want?

DE doesn't agree with you. It's flat out quoted as no every single time. 

All we're doing is trying to help you guys understand why DE is saying no because you guys are having a huge difficulty understanding that literally every game is gonna have a carrot-stick situation.

You can be upset at the state of capitalism in the gaming industry but a private company is a private company. 

If it wasn't rivens, you'd just be complaining about some other random thing the company does, preventing you from gathering the best pixels.

 

[Zimzala]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

You can be upset at the state of capitalism in the gaming industry but a private company is a private company. 

If it wasn't rivens, you'd just be complaining about some other random thing the company does, preventing you from gathering the best pixels.

Bingo.

On target, to the point, and oh so true.

Rock On!

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 1/30/2023 at 4:43 PM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Maybe you should ask DE why they've also disagreed with you and anyone else that's asked that few years. 

You do realize it's not just me, Voltage and 2 other top tier echelon of players, correct? How would me and a few other people stop DE from doing whatever they want?

DE doesn't agree with you. It's flat out quoted as no every single time. 

All we're doing is trying to help you guys understand why DE is saying no because you guys are having a huge difficulty understanding that literally every game is gonna have a carrot-stick situation.

You can be upset at the state of capitalism in the gaming industry but a private company is a private company. 

If it wasn't rivens, you'd just be complaining about some other random thing the company does, preventing you from gathering the best pixels.

 

1) DE has a long record of refusing to change something for long periods of time, and then changing it later. Just because they havent changed the system yet doesnt mean it will never be changed. 

2) and likewise its not just me who thinks the riven system in its current state is less than ideal so this point isnt as clever as you thought it was.

3) appeal to authority. And sure maybe they do. Maybe they always will and maybe it will never ever be changed ever. But that doesnt mean people who disagree with them shouldnt speak up. Sometimes things take awhile to be changed.

4) "we're just trying to help bro"- this is just cringe honestly. 

5) "but muh capitalism". Bruh. Im willing to bet ive spent more money on this game than you and even if i havent, hurr durr capitalism isnt what this is about. Its highly debatable, at best, if this is even the most profitable capitalistic system DE could have in place for rivens. 

6) "its a private company they can do what they want" doesnt mean they are immune to criticism or that anything they are doing cant be done better. "You'd just complain about"- is just irrelevant. When people talk about white knighting being toxic thats a perfect example.

 

I swear there could be a bug that wipes your profile and all your progress entirely and people would be calling for DE to fix it and some apologist white knight would still be saying "ugh crybabies if they fix that you're still gonna piss and moan about something". 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

1) DE has a long record of refusing to change something for long periods of time, and then changing it later. Just because they havent changed the system yet doesnt mean it will never be changed. 

2) and likewise its not just me who thinks the riven system in its current state is less than ideal so this point isnt as clever as you thought it was.

3) appeal to authority. And sure maybe they do. Maybe they always will and maybe it will never ever be changed ever. But that doesnt mean people who disagree with them shouldnt speak up. Sometimes things take awhile to be changed.

4) "we're just trying to help bro"- this is just cringe honestly. 

5) "but muh capitalism". Bruh. Im willing to bet ive spent more money on this game than you and even if i havent, hurr durr capitalism isnt what this is about. Its highly debatable, at best, if this is even the most profitable capitalistic system DE could have in place for rivens. 

6) "its a private company they can do what they want" doesnt mean they are immune to criticism or that anything they are doing cant be done better. "You'd just complain about"- is just irrelevant. When people talk about white knighting being toxic thats a perfect example.

 

I swear there could be a bug that wipes your profile and all your progress entirely and people would be calling for DE to fix it and some apologist white knight would still be saying "ugh crybabies if they fix that you're still gonna piss and moan about something". 

There are different types of changes. I looked at past riven changes and they actually made it easier for you to roll rivens. The 3500 roll cap was implemented for you guys. It used to go higher than 3500. 

We'll see in a few years what your excuse is when these changes still aren't implemented. Seems some people have a hard time accepting no for an answer. 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

There are different types of changes. I looked at past riven changes and they actually made it easier for you to roll rivens. The 3500 roll cap was implemented for you guys. It used to go higher than 3500. 

We'll see in a few years what your excuse is when these changes still aren't implemented. Seems some people have a hard time accepting no for an answer. 

I didnt realize i was speaking to an official DE spokesperson. I already addressed that maybe they will make changes and maybe they wont. 🙄

 

Is your non-point to just be as smug about it as possible or are you seriously suggesting that people shouldnt even express an opinion on a system unless they believe that DE will change it? 

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

On 1/21/2023 at 9:44 PM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Against, because it's mostly pitchfork players and/or new/casual players trying to circumvent actually playing the game. 

They don't understand modding and make no effort to be better players.  

I imagine you wouldn't change your view if different people asked for the same change, right?

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

There are different types of changes. I looked at past riven changes and they actually made it easier for you to roll rivens. The 3500 roll cap was implemented for you guys. It used to go higher than 3500. 

We'll see in a few years what your excuse is when these changes still aren't implemented. Seems some people have a hard time accepting no for an answer. 

In fact, Id like to point out how new "pity system implementation" is to the game period. We see it with a few frames and weapons now. We see it with tau shards now. 

 

It *could* be more likely to happen now.

 

And one of DE's arguments against it before, was that rivens existed outside the games balance design considerations, that the only thing keeping them kind of in check *was* RNG. 

But look at the game now vs the last time steve said that in a dev stream.

Enemy scaling got re worked. Between arbitrations, steel path, archon hunts, and steel path fissures, more high level content has existed and been designed around than at any point in the games history. Once upon a time if you had a tiberon riven youd either be using it in the sorties for the day for like 20 minutes, using it in the kuva flood for like 5-10 minutes, and other then that unless you were one of the few that did endless endurance runs youd probably never see anything level 100+ anyway.

Arcanes exist that essentially give +300 damage + a bunch of multishot to literally every single primary and secondary weapon in a landscape where once upon a time "+damage + multishot neg" was considered a highly desirable roll if not "the god roll" for low dispo weapons like bramma or tigris.

Between arcanes existing and galvanized mods existing and the enemy scaling reworks the lines between having a riven and not having a riven have been blurred in a lot of cases. 

DE has clearly gotten comfortable implementing and designing pity systems. And we will likely see more of them.

One point that got brought up was DE's *profitability*. Truthfully i dont know if the current system is more profitable for DE or not. *godrolls* for thousands of plat are usually bought and sold between players who have thousands of plat they earned by farming and selling prime sets, flipping rivens, or rolling and selling rivens.

I dont see many if any people busting out their credit cards to buy thousands of platinum to spend on rivens. Maybe if they werent priced so high more people would be inclined to buy them.

The real point of contention that ive seen in this thread isnt about game balance or profitability though its a few people dont want to use their special snowflake unicorn status which i think is absurd. And if we're gonna talk about examples of DE disagreeing id say look at primed chamber- once upon a time there were like 4 or 5 copies of the mod known to exist on xbox and they sold for 10s of thousands of plat, maybe over a hundred, if you could even find one for sale period, and DE decided that the cost of preserving their rarity wasnt worth it. And like 4 or 5 people were big mad over it.

 

But i can think of plenty of times riven traders were "actually" screwed. 

Dispo nerfs just in general. Anyone who bought a riven and then had the dispo nerfed after the fact.

120+% status chance kohm rivens used to be one of the most sought after things in the game and between status changes and nerfs its basically an almost irrelevant stat now. Not useless but definitely not what it used to be.

-slash kohm rivens used to actually be superior to status kohm rivens but the status changes particularly the change in IPS vs elemental weighting ruined that.

+crit chance on melee rivens used to basically mean guaranteed red crits with blood rush and then they changed the math.

+damage on melee weapons used to be really good back when OG condition overload was a thing and now its considered mid to useless by most people.

+damage on secondary and primary weapons isnt "useless" but it went from one of the top stats to have to "meh" what with arcanes and galvanized mods being a thing.

RIP slide crit rivens. 

RIP + range rivens to a point but not entirely.

RIP rivens for weapons that got nerfed hard like kuva ogris. 

Ive felt burned before on rivens ive put in work for to have the plat to get,

 

But nobody here is suggesting ah yes lets f*** over peoples rivens.

If anything id like to see some kind of system where having a great riven is still a high investment/time thing, like the cherry on top but something you can actually make consistent progress for without it feeling like such a crap shoot.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Ampathetiic said:

I imagine you wouldn't change your view if different people asked for the same change, right?

The "I played for 12 years and need something to do" players? 

The "my feelings get hurt when I can't have whatever I want" players? 

The "look at all the math I did, that means I deserve whatever I want" players? 

No, I don't agree with them.

57 minutes ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

In fact, Id like to point out how new "pity system implementation" is to the game period. We see it with a few frames and weapons now. We see it with tau shards now. 

 

It *could* be more likely to happen now.

 

And one of DE's arguments against it before, was that rivens existed outside the games balance design considerations, that the only thing keeping them kind of in check *was* RNG. 

But look at the game now vs the last time steve said that in a dev stream.

Enemy scaling got re worked. Between arbitrations, steel path, archon hunts, and steel path fissures, more high level content has existed and been designed around than at any point in the games history. Once upon a time if you had a tiberon riven youd either be using it in the sorties for the day for like 20 minutes, using it in the kuva flood for like 5-10 minutes, and other then that unless you were one of the few that did endless endurance runs youd probably never see anything level 100+ anyway.

Arcanes exist that essentially give +300 damage + a bunch of multishot to literally every single primary and secondary weapon in a landscape where once upon a time "+damage + multishot neg" was considered a highly desirable roll if not "the god roll" for low dispo weapons like bramma or tigris.

Between arcanes existing and galvanized mods existing and the enemy scaling reworks the lines between having a riven and not having a riven have been blurred in a lot of cases. 

DE has clearly gotten comfortable implementing and designing pity systems. And we will likely see more of them.

One point that got brought up was DE's *profitability*. Truthfully i dont know if the current system is more profitable for DE or not. *godrolls* for thousands of plat are usually bought and sold between players who have thousands of plat they earned by farming and selling prime sets, flipping rivens, or rolling and selling rivens.

I dont see many if any people busting out their credit cards to buy thousands of platinum to spend on rivens. Maybe if they werent priced so high more people would be inclined to buy them.

The real point of contention that ive seen in this thread isnt about game balance or profitability though its a few people dont want to use their special snowflake unicorn status which i think is absurd. And if we're gonna talk about examples of DE disagreeing id say look at primed chamber- once upon a time there were like 4 or 5 copies of the mod known to exist on xbox and they sold for 10s of thousands of plat, maybe over a hundred, if you could even find one for sale period, and DE decided that the cost of preserving their rarity wasnt worth it. And like 4 or 5 people were big mad over it.

 

But i can think of plenty of times riven traders were "actually" screwed. 

Dispo nerfs just in general. Anyone who bought a riven and then had the dispo nerfed after the fact.

120+% status chance kohm rivens used to be one of the most sought after things in the game and between status changes and nerfs its basically an almost irrelevant stat now. Not useless but definitely not what it used to be.

-slash kohm rivens used to actually be superior to status kohm rivens but the status changes particularly the change in IPS vs elemental weighting ruined that.

+crit chance on melee rivens used to basically mean guaranteed red crits with blood rush and then they changed the math.

+damage on melee weapons used to be really good back when OG condition overload was a thing and now its considered mid to useless by most people.

+damage on secondary and primary weapons isnt "useless" but it went from one of the top stats to have to "meh" what with arcanes and galvanized mods being a thing.

RIP slide crit rivens. 

RIP + range rivens to a point but not entirely.

RIP rivens for weapons that got nerfed hard like kuva ogris. 

Ive felt burned before on rivens ive put in work for to have the plat to get,

 

But nobody here is suggesting ah yes lets f*** over peoples rivens.

If anything id like to see some kind of system where having a great riven is still a high investment/time thing, like the cherry on top but something you can actually make consistent progress for without it feeling like such a crap shoot.

Ok, so good luck and we'll wait and see. Continue to provide feedback, doesn't matter to me.

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

The "I played for 12 years and need something to do" players? 

The "my feelings get hurt when I can't have whatever I want" players? 

The "look at all the math I did, that means I deserve whatever I want" players? 

No, I don't agree with them.

That doesn't sound like you have an opinion on an issue. That sounds like you're letting your opinions be dictated by the people you don't like, which I'm assuming isn't what you're trying to convey. Surely we can agree that "I disagree with X because the people who agree with X are bad" is a bad argument.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

11 minutes ago, (XBOX)Ampathetiic said:

That doesn't sound like you have an opinion on an issue. That sounds like you're letting your opinions be dictated by the people you don't like, which I'm assuming isn't what you're trying to convey. Surely we can agree that "I disagree with X because the people who agree with X are bad" is a bad argument.

I don't agree because there's no reason for me to agree, regardless of who says it. 

I'm just not the kind of person to think a game should give away all its prizes after a few months. 

Other people think they deserve something after a certain amount of time, and that's ok. 

There's not much else to say. 

[Sahansral]

+
I don't like the whole randomization aspect of rivens. Was a bad idea at its introduction and my opinion after all that years haven't changed.

[(XBOX)Hellsteeth30]

I'll give DE a crisp £13 note to get rid of them entirely.

If they insist on keeping them around, they'd make bank on charging plat to skip the garbage challenges   As it stands I just sell mine now, some people hoard them.