Making Rarer Debt Bonds More Accessible

[Xtraman0110]

Context: This thread is specifically aimed towards addressing the issue of acquiring debt bonds for the Solaris United rank up sacrifice.

Simply put, acquiring the various debt bonds can be a chore. The more rarer debt bonds (advances, familial, and medical especially) do not drop/appear often enough from bounties or Ticker's trade offerings. I want to bring up medical debt bonds specifically, as their drop chance is extremely low: 20% on the first stage, then 12.5% on the second and third stage--and you need 35 of them to get to Old Mate.

Compared to the other landscape syndicates (and we will include the Holdfasts in this brief discussion), Solaris United has the most difficult to obtain rank-up materials--as their drops are heavily dependent on luck. This is bad; this randomness can be frustrating and can dissuade players from reaching the higher ranks of Solaris United--and consequently gate access to the heists from Vox Solaris.

In light of the recent influx of the various "pity systems," I have a proposition to making debt bonds more accessible: have purchasing debt bonds function like trading for Voidplumes. Ticker would have guaranteed offerings for all debt bonds types that would rotate after a certain time passes (preferably 1 or 2 hours), much like how Yonta has guaranteed offerings for all Voidplumes that rotate every 8 hours. And I would suggest to keep the little bonus training/shelter debt bonds in the packages, just so players have the extra debt bonds to use as they please.

Or perhaps an even simpler solution: just make the rarer debt bonds appear more often in Ticker's offerings.

Edit: 

After some more thorough thinking, I have concluded that the problem may not stem from the drop chance of the debt bonds--but rather the amount that you need to sacrifice to rank up with Solaris United. With this new perspective, perhaps a better solution is to just decrease the debt bonds needed for ranking up. 

While this proposed solution doesn't fix the issue of the drop chance of the debt bonds, it at least ensures that the grind doesn't drag out for too long. And seeing as debt bonds aren't critical long-term resources, this might be a better and simpler solution that will greatly benefit players who are working their way towards getting to the rank of Old Mate in Solaris United. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Xtraman0110
New proposed solution to problem.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

Ooooor, you can do the Orb fights that guarantee all those resources after a battle. I mean these resources are called rare for a reason. 

[Xtraman0110]

8 hours ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

Ooooor, you can do the Orb fights that guarantee all those resources after a battle. I mean these resources are called rare for a reason. 

Did you even read the second paragraph? For anyone who isn't at Old Mate already, they don't have access to Profit Taker--who makes farming those rarer debt bonds trivial. And no, you can't taxi people to Profit Taker, they patched that out already.

And as for your comment of "these resources are called rare for a reason," that's completely nonsensical and such a defeatist argument over their low drop chance. They aren't even listed in the "rare reward" list of the bounty, they're in the "common reward" list.

And besides, we're talking about a syndicate here. Why is the syndicate's own reputation resource so rare and gated by rng? And to reiterate what I said in the original post, it also gates access to another syndicate, Vox Solaris. No other syndicates has this problem, with the possible exception of the Necraloid--and even then, the Orokin Matrices are at least guaranteed drops from defeating necramechs and you don't need to sacrifice more than 15 of a given Orokin Matrix to get to the next rank. Narmer Isoplasts, of all things, have better drop chances than debt bonds and people still complain about the drop chances of Isoplasts. 

I have to ask, why does it have to be this way? Why do *you* think it has to be this way? As someone who is LR2, already jumped past this hurdle but still thinks about new players that will face and may never jump past that hurdle, I want to know why anyone would excuse the current state of debt bond grinding.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

1 hour ago, Xtraman0110 said:

For anyone who isn't at Old Mate already, they don't have access to Profit Taker

Sounds like a great incentive to work their way towards it. 👍 

While farming for the rep they'll probably also get familiar debt bonds as well. I'm sure that those using the recruiting tab will be able to find a group to help them farm it. 👍

[Ranjutsu15]

On 2023-02-05 at 9:15 PM, Xtraman0110 said:

Or perhaps an even simpler solution: just make the rarer debt bonds appear more often in Ticker's offerings.

Wouldn't be that much of a RARER Dept Bonds if its too prevalent right..?

[gioMisterio]

On 2023-02-06 at 4:15 AM, (XBOX)Shodian said:

Sounds like a great incentive to work their way towards it

I'm MR 24 and out of all open worlds Fortuna is by far the worst due to that, its not fun to close content behind boring bounties and RNG in them and Ticker shop (where at best you can buy few medical bonds, nevermind anything better). Though I was excited to do first heist after such long grind, it was very dissapointing since they are extremely boring for me, essentially making whole grind pointless in retrospective and a massive waste of time. Unlike Eidolons and Vaults where I could try them out immediately and decide if they are fun or no.

Edited February 7, 2023 by gioMisterio

[Xtraman0110]

On 2023-02-05 at 6:15 PM, (XBOX)Shodian said:

Sounds like a great incentive to work their way towards it. 👍 

While farming for the rep they'll probably also get familiar debt bonds as well. I'm sure that those using the recruiting tab will be able to find a group to help them farm it. 👍

You are missing the point here. The whole grind to get to Old Mate is such a slog that the incentive alone is not going to be worth it for most people. People are likely to give up or not even bother ranking up Solaris United after getting burnt out from grinding debt bonds. I have to reiterate, literally no other syndicate is this heavily rng-gated--and yes, this includes the main six syndicates, which you can at least trade the prime parts for.

I want you to scrounge around other forums like Reddit, the official Warframe forums, etc--and carefully note what the main complaint about Solaris United is. I will bet you dollars to donuts it's the debt bonds that you need to sacrifice to get to the next rank. This has been a long-present issue that needs to be addressed, especially now--as the playerbase is being stretched thinner and thinner as we get more hubs. 

Also, when was the last time you've seen a recruit message for farming debt bonds? People are not going to be doing that--for the reasons of either a) they already went through that slog of a grind, b) they aren't even bothered with doing that grind, or c) the bounty will literally match you with another player doing the same bounty, thus invalidating the need of making a squad from the recruit chat in the first place.

And lastly, your discussion here has generally been shallow and unhelpful. It's about time you put down the Wukong Prime and Kuva Bramma--and actually critically think about this from a new player's perspective, or at least from the perspective of someone who just started started Fortuna. 

[(XBOX)Shodian]

5 hours ago, Xtraman0110 said:

And lastly, your discussion here has generally been shallow and unhelpfu

I disagree, you had asked for rare bonds to be easier to obtain, thus making them not rare. I had told you the easiest ways to obtain the bonds. 👍

5 hours ago, Xtraman0110 said:

It's about time you put down the Wukong Prime and Kuva Bramma--and actually critically think about this from a new player's perspective

You forget that I too was once a new player that had to do this grind. I did the bounties and got bonds from Ticker and unlocked the Orb fights. It only took me a few weeks to unlock everything everything.

Also if you need help getting the different bonds I'll be glad to help you run through the missions and get some. 👍

[(PSN)Bloodhounds64]

why are debt bond the most impossible thing to get in warframe! i ran a bounty 67 times and got 8 medical bonds and whenever i look up a better way they just say buy from ticker..... ya ok, but its impossible when all 6 of his sales are training and shelter! im stuck on rank 3 trying to get advanced debt bonds and nooooo lets give me the highest reward possible every time! but oh you want to do relic farming with rad relics... all the bronze loot for youuuuuuuuu. I have the worst rng known to man but a 20% chance to get the main material needed to level up in fortuna is unbelievably ridiculous. have genuenly considered uninstalling because of this. and my biggest issue with this game(off topic) is the mods! there are way to many in the game and are impossible to get! today i spent 4 hours on a mission just to get deep freeze for my pistol to then just give up and buy it. a game is not enjoyable when i feel like i am forced to spend money 

[TurjanMi.ir]

On 2/5/2023 at 2:15 PM, Xtraman0110 said:

Or perhaps an even simpler solution: just make the rarer debt bonds appear more often in Ticker's offerings.

Does Ticker even sell Familial Bonds? I've never seen those in all the months I have been playing. Medical and Advances Bonds show up on a regular basis though.

I'm stuck on rank 4 with maxed out rep btw.

[PollexMessier]

Even worse with the star days event asking for almost exclusively these rare bonds in absurdly high quantities.
Compared to it's similar halloween event which asks exclusively for the easiest to obtain token on Deimos.

Even if ticker sold them more often have you actually seen what the asking cost of them is when they do show up? It's completely insane, asking for millions of credits and obscenely huge quantities of materials. It wouldn't be a benefit to progression unless they took a serious look at how rediculous the resource cost of them is. Believe me I'm not hurting for resources but when I see those pop up I avoid buying them because they're just unreasonable. Even knowing how annoying the bonds are to get otherwise.

There's a lot wrong with fortuna. The toroid grind is insane and the requirement to max out solaris united to even start ranking up Vox solaris always pissed me off.

But it's too old. DE rarely if ever does a pass over on systems they've left untouched for so long. Best bet, they tweak it when they release the third orb mother sometime in... 3-5 years.

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

On 2023-04-06 at 4:23 AM, TurjanMi.ir said:

Does Ticker even sell Familial Bonds? I've never seen those in all the months I have been playing. Medical and Advances Bonds show up on a regular basis though.

I'm stuck on rank 4 with maxed out rep btw.

She does. Just very random as eff and apparently everyone has their own pool of Bonds that show up. During a period someone wasn't getting Medical and Familial Bonds, three of my offerings were those specific bonds. I also went from Rank 3 to Rank 4 by just buying everything from Ticker over the course of a few days. I think Rank 3 took me the longest and it was because Ticker didn't have any of the common bonds on sale and I wasn't running bounties. 

[Tiltskillet]

On 4/6/2023 at 2:23 AM, TurjanMi.ir said:

Does Ticker even sell Familial Bonds?

Yes, but they're rare.  I hadn't seen any in a couple of years--and had been wondering for a while if they no longer showed up--but grabbed some in February. 

I was only checking sporadically during that time, so it's quite possible they're rare but not "once every couple of years" rare.

[(PSN)Redphienix]

On 2/5/2023 at 8:15 AM, Xtraman0110 said:

Edit: 

After some more thorough thinking, I have concluded that the problem may not stem from the drop chance of the debt bonds--but rather the amount that you need to sacrifice to rank up with Solaris United. With this new perspective, perhaps a better solution is to just decrease the debt bonds needed for ranking up. 

While this proposed solution doesn't fix the issue of the drop chance of the debt bonds, it at least ensures that the grind doesn't drag out for too long. And seeing as debt bonds aren't critical long-term resources, this might be a better and simpler solution that will greatly benefit players who are working their way towards getting to the rank of Old Mate in Solaris United. 

I second this mentality whole-heartedly.

I played and did my grind for all this content when it first dropped, and time has truly blurred the experience BIG time as up until a couple months ago I remembered it being entirely fair and extremely quick to accomplish, in part because with it being brand spankin' new I was enamored just doing Orb content in general, and if you are passively doing a ton of bounties for multiple weeks then you just end up with the resources by the time you need them.

I had the (opposite of)pleasure of doing this grind a second time a couple months ago to assist a friend of mine who did not do any Orb content prior.

You require FAR too many of each bond, Medical bonds for no particular reason have a lower drop rate in bounties than the other required bonds if I recall correctly, and Ticker might as well be getting a hearty laugh at anyone trying to catch up to access Vox in modern year with how all she sells are the low tier bonds that aren't required for Solaris.

 

The grind really only fit in its time, it's extremely awkward attempting to accomplish it today since the rates are trash, the required amount is extremely high, and this isn't even content most players are particularly interested in since all the new shiny toys are on Deimos and Zariman.

Lowering the required amount of each bond for Solaris United rank ups would do wonders for making it feel more in line with, well, pretty much every other grind lol

It's overtuned in estimated time investment in my opinion.

[rotorka]

"Just run profit taker."

"They are a rare resource for a reason."

"If you don't have the Old Mate Rank, that's your incentive to keep going."

Okay, let me get this off my chest. These responses are painfully tone deaf to the initial point of the post. Just because they are meant to be a rare resource, they should not be completely RNG gated. Rare can also mean -difficult to obtain-. And by that I mean that you need to do something otherwise difficult to obtain it, rather than pray that the dice roll in your favour.

The medical debt bond farm is a pain of quite some magnitude, just to get the amount needed to rank up from rank 3-4, I spent the better part of 6 hours running the first stage of the bounty that can drop it. Only to end up getting... four. Four out of the twelve I needed. Did I have any other alternative to get this resource? No, all I have is running the same exact activity, in the same exact area, quitting after the first stage to save time each and every time. And sure, in the end I got it. It took me 39 hours worth of 'gameplay' during which I have actively grown to despise running anything Fortuna related.

I got lucky with ticker for the next rank in terms of medical bonds, but I am on day five of trying to get the Advances Debt Bonds. And this is, frankly speaking, rather grim. Do we really want to make playing a videogame a -chore- in order to get access to yet another form of farming that we -need- in order to even get started on grinding -another- faction's reputation?

This current system is promoting a style of gameplay that actively hurts the game and people's desire to want to engage with the game long term.

How many of my rapidly dwindling hours of my free time do I need to devote to be FINALLY allowed to have any sort of progress?

I am not angry at people who defend it, I am confused by them.

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

10 minutes ago, rotorka said:

"Just run profit taker."

"They are a rare resource for a reason."

"If you don't have the Old Mate Rank, that's your incentive to keep going."

Okay, let me get this off my chest. These responses are painfully tone deaf to the initial point of the post. Just because they are meant to be a rare resource, they should not be completely RNG gated. Rare can also mean -difficult to obtain-. And by that I mean that you need to do something otherwise difficult to obtain it, rather than pray that the dice roll in your favour.

The medical debt bond farm is a pain of quite some magnitude, just to get the amount needed to rank up from rank 3-4, I spent the better part of 6 hours running the first stage of the bounty that can drop it. Only to end up getting... four. Four out of the twelve I needed. Did I have any other alternative to get this resource? No, all I have is running the same exact activity, in the same exact area, quitting after the first stage to save time each and every time. And sure, in the end I got it. It took me 39 hours worth of 'gameplay' during which I have actively grown to despise running anything Fortuna related.

I got lucky with ticker for the next rank in terms of medical bonds, but I am on day five of trying to get the Advances Debt Bonds. And this is, frankly speaking, rather grim. Do we really want to make playing a videogame a -chore- in order to get access to yet another form of farming that we -need- in order to even get started on grinding -another- faction's reputation?

This current system is promoting a style of gameplay that actively hurts the game and people's desire to want to engage with the game long term.

How many of my rapidly dwindling hours of my free time do I need to devote to be FINALLY allowed to have any sort of progress?

I am not angry at people who defend it, I am confused by them.

I think a lot of it is the fact that certain people forget or just straight up ignore that people have lives, the rng can be insane sometimes and people just don’t have the time or patience, i ground out bonds it wasn’t enjoyable luckily the bump from tier 3 to 5 took a few days because i had some many none rares to just boost the standing.

The main thing you said which is a big point “chore” not fun at all.

Edited November 2, 2023 by (PSN)FrDiabloFr