Multishot does not apply to a number of attacks.

[rainy]

Multishot does not apply in any form to all of the following attacks:

• Hitscan Explosions (Multiplied in arsenal, but not in reality).
  • Ambassador alt-fire explosion.
  • Mausolon explosions on both main and alt-fire.
  • Trumna main-fire explosion.
  • Battacor alt-fire explosion.
  • Ferrox main-fire explosion.
  • Tenet Ferrox main-fire explosion.
  • Opticor Vandal explosion (likely Opticor too).
  • Braton Incarnon explosion.
  • Burston Incarnon explosion.
  • Zylok Incarnon explosion.
• Alternox Alt-fire (Multiplied in arsenal, but not in reality) - This attack is almost functionally identical to Torid, which has no placement limit.
• Catabolyst Bladder attack - If Penta's visibly growing magazine can create multishot grenades from nothing, I think Catabolyst's magazine can too.
• Speargun Throws  (Multiplied in arsenal, but not in reality) - Throws historically functioned this way. Multishot in general doesn't make logistical sense in the first place, and especially now that Spearguns clearly duplicate in your hand, it no longer makes sense for it not to apply. It would have negligible gameplay impacts regarding throw gimmicks, only raise them to advertised damage. If this is due to placement limits, raise the limit to be equal to modded multishot rounded up, or simply delete all deployed spears upon every throw.
  • Afentis Throw projectile.
  • Javlok Throw projectile and explosion.
  • Scourge Throw projectile and explosion.
  • Scourge Prime Throw projectile and explosion.
  • Ferrox Throw
  • Tenet Ferrox Throw
• Beam AoE - Some beams have a radial component that is overriden by the main beam (only one can hit) that give shape to an otherwise laser beam. Damage and Status Chance are normally expected to be improved by multishot, but instead there is no effect.
  • Ignis, Ignis Wraith, Catabolyst, Embolyst, Cortege, Glaxion Vandal, Primary Gaze, Torid Incarnon and its respective beams.

Understandable exceptions:

• Buzlok alt-fire (Arsenal shows multishot affecting damage)
• Zenith alt-fire

Edited May 29, 2023 by rainy
Added several incarnons.

[Tiltskillet]

Thanks for making this bug report.  I've been contemplating making one for Battacor, just discovered the issue with continuous AoE weapons, and have an old one for Ambassador.  Yours is far more comprehensive than mine would have been.   A couple of notes:

• Add primary Gaze to the list of continuous AoE weapons with a radial component unaffected by multi
• Ambassador in AoE sniper mode and Scourge throws have bizarre secondary explosions, also unaffected by multishot, but with different qualities than the explosion shown in the Arsenal.

. 

[rainy]

16 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Thanks for making this bug report.  I've been contemplating making one for Battacor, just discovered the issue with continuous AoE weapons, and have an old one for Ambassador.  Yours is far more comprehensive than mine would have been. 

Thank you! This all came up because someone mentioned Opticor on the gunco list. I was going to make a thread for punch-through not working on a bunch of things too, such as Sporothrix (despite Mutalist Cernos working), and I saw another thread mention Mausolon (despite Trumna working). I'm sure there are more.

15 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Ambassador in AoE sniper mode and Scourge throws have bizarre secondary explosions, also unaffected by multishot, but with different qualities than the explosion shown in the Arsenal.

I didn't notice it at the time with Ambassador. The hitscan explosion values (for all such listed weapons) appear in the center of the simulacrum room instead of on the target (often placing them off-screen), maybe that's what you saw?

As for scourge, yea there are like 4 numbers and I never quite figured out where they all come from xD.

[Tiltskillet]

8 minutes ago, rainy said:

I didn't notice it at the time with Ambassador. The hitscan explosion values (for all such listed weapons) appear in the center of the simulacrum room instead of on the target (often placing them off-screen), maybe that's what you saw?

No, I'm definitely seeing extra status effects and damage popups.  It's easy to miss because it only happens on hitting objects.  (Same with the Scourge when I tested it, but it's been a long time since I looked at it last and it's been reworked since.)  And the explosions had different damage values,  different falloff, and interact differently with Firestorm and Galvanized Aptitude.

 

16 minutes ago, rainy said:

I was going to make a thread for punch-through not working on a bunch of things too, such as Sporothrix (despite Mutalist Cernos working), and I saw another thread mention Mausolon (despite Trumna working). I'm sure there are more.

Oh, the undocumented Veilbreaker AoE punch through thing.  Besides Trumna, Komorex altfire, vanilla Ferrox regular fire.  And Scourge Prime throw.  (By default, for some reason, even though it seems like a negative, and the vanilla Scourge doesn't do this.)

Everything else I've tested with an innate radial component PT is completely non functional on.   Although with the caveat that I've only tested maybe 20 weapons, so there are probably more.   But M. Cernos is the first new one I've even heard of for a long time.  Do you know of any others?

Anyway a bug report for PT would be great.    Devs have been pinged about this new behavior a fair amount, and they've never acknowledged the change.  I suspect PT is supposed to be nonfunctional on these weapons now, but they could at least fix the Arsenal so PT doesn't show up in the stats when it does nothing.

[rainy]

21 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Do you know of any others?

There are like 3 different levels (of broken):

1. Punches through - Explosion occurs on last surface/target
2. Punches through - Explosion occurs on first surface/target
3. Literally can't punch through.

I haven't done many either xD. Opticor Vandal was a 2, Trumna was a 2, Mutalist Cernos was a 1, Afentis Throw (technically explodes?) was also a 1. Sporothrix is a 3. Although I only checked bodies. Terrain is a whole different level.

Edited March 22, 2023 by rainy

[Tiltskillet]

On 3/21/2023 at 5:07 PM, rainy said:

Opticor Vandal explosion (likely Opticor too).

Regular Opticor confirmed.    (Also can add it to the list of AoE weapons that allow the projectile to PT after the explosion, further enhanced by PT mods.)

Also Basmu and Shedu mag depletion pulses. 

I noticed that many of these have radial effects that aren't affected by Firestorm. However Komorex in AoE mode, not affected by FS, -is- benefiting from multi.

[rainy]

On 2023-03-24 at 1:52 PM, Tiltskillet said:

Also Basmu and Shedu mag depletion pulses. 

You know, I initially had these and the Quatz reload in the draft, but they do like 10 damage or something negligible like Cobra and Crane shield throw 😢 but I suppose they still count. It's unfair to lose damage on things like imaginary compatibility. If beams can get it, everything should.

On 2023-03-24 at 1:52 PM, Tiltskillet said:

However Komorex in AoE mode, not affected by FS, -is- benefiting from multi.

Multishot probably works because Komorex is a projectile instead of hitscan beamAoE. The BeamAoE hits from opticor, trumna etc all work with GunCo actually on their direct-hit targets. Komorex would not. The nice part is this doesn't break the arbitrary GunCO rules that they cannot apply to explosions, since it's still only affecting a single target and not the radius.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, rainy said:

You know, I initially had these and the Quatz reload in the draft, but they do like 10 damage or something

Oh, c'mon, Shedu does 💯!  :P 

[rainy]

Added incarnon attacks for Zylok, Burston, Braton, and Torid.

All radial components of these attacks have no effect from multishot, despite the expectation that they should, especially when the arsenal UI suggests that it is applying.

I also realized there was an uncategorized bug report section for PC bugs, but thought mission was for general gameplay reporting. Am I in the wrong place?

[ImWithDerp]

Oof, this seems like a pretty bad issue considering how essential multishot is

[Voltage]

17 hours ago, ImWithDerp said:

Oof, this seems like a pretty bad issue considering how essential multishot is

Just wait until you see the GunCO spreadsheet :(

[Tiltskillet]

7 minutes ago, Voltage said:

18 hours ago, ImWithDerp said:

Oof, this seems like a pretty bad issue considering how essential multishot is

Just wait until you see the GunCO spreadsheet :(

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ryemX4Y2vWy9LjuJ355bWVNuBhzLaHTTFqPeTNto9RA/edit#gid=221509335

courtesy of rainy.

Of course, unlike this situation, there are a fair amount of weapons benefiting from bugged GunCO.

 

[Traumtulpe]

I hope this is getting looked at, and doesn't fall into the "is it worth the salary of a programmer to fix this?" category.

It may be old school of me, but I believe delivering a consistent and functional product does in fact have value.

[VibingCat]

Did you check Tenet Spirex?

[Onneir]

We now have a mod called Sentient Barrage for the Battacor that changes how the alt fire works slightly (removes the explosion, infinite body punch-through, regain charges for each enemy hit up to 3, full-charge boosts Crit Chance/Damage for alt-fire); unfortunately, as far as I can tell, this still doesn't allow multishot to work on it properly.

[Zeussys]

Am 22.3.2023 um 01:07 schrieb rainy:

Understandable exceptions:

• Buzlok alt-fire (Arsenal shows multishot affecting damage)
• Zenith alt-fire

For me the Arsenal also shows multishot affecting the damage of Zenith alt-fire.
But as you mentioned, it doesn't actually apply.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Zeussys

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, Zeussys said:

For me the Arsenal also shows multishot affecting the damage of Zenith alt-fire.
But as you mentioned, it doesn't actually apply.

What you quoted in the OP is about the disc's deployment damage.  I don't see an entry in the Arsenal for that, only for the regular full auto, and "secondary": referring to the weapon's damage in semi-auto infinite PT mode.   Do you see 3 entries?

In the Sim the unmodded deployment damage against Overguard is 9 (Compared to 28 and 159 for primary/secondary damage popups.) and is affected by at least some damage bonuses but not multishot.

The weapon's true modes aren't having a problem with multishot for me.

[Zeussys]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Tiltskillet:

What you quoted in the OP is about the disc's deployment damage.  I don't see an entry in the Arsenal for that, only for the regular full auto, and "secondary": referring to the weapon's damage in semi-auto infinite PT mode.   Do you see 3 entries?

What I meant:
When I use my Zenith without "Split Chamber" and "Vigilante Armaments" my arsenal shows - for Multishot and 1'768,9 Total Damage (in the picture: the number left to the green numbers). If I use this Zenith in alt fire mode against Grineer Lancer Level 1, a normal body shot (so no crit) does 2'130 Damage.

When I additionally equip "Split Chamber" and "Vigilante Armaments" my arsenal shows a change (in green): Multishot 2,5 and Total Damage 4'422,2.
But when I use this Zenith in alt fire mode against Grineer Lancer Level 1, a normal body shot still does 2'130 Damage.

[Tiltskillet]

31 minutes ago, Zeussys said:

What I meant:
When I use my Zenith without "Split Chamber" and "Vigilante Armaments" my arsenal shows - for Multishot and 1'768,9 Total Damage (in the picture: the number left to the green numbers). If I use this Zenith in alt fire mode against Grineer Lancer Level 1, a normal body shot (so no crit) does 2'130 Damage.

When I additionally equip "Split Chamber" and "Vigilante Armaments" my arsenal shows a change (in green): Multishot 2,5 and Total Damage 4'422,2.
But when I use this Zenith in alt fire mode against Grineer Lancer Level 1, a normal body shot still does 2'130 Damage.

So if I equip 100% multishot for "Multishot 2x", I get two damage popups every time in both of the Arsenal modes. Each one is equal to the damage I get without any multishot, but there are two of them. 

If you're only seeing one damage popup with "Multishot: 2.5x", you're either experiencing a very odd bug, or your damage number settings in options aren't showing the additional damage instances.  If it's the latter, you probably have "Show Damage Numbers" in Options set to "Enhanced".  Try changing it to "Legacy" and see if that solves the problem.

[Zeussys]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Tiltskillet:

If you're only seeing one damage popup with "Multishot: 2.5x", you're either experiencing a very odd bug, or your damage number settings in options aren't showing the additional damage instances.  If it's the latter, you probably have "Show Damage Numbers" in Options set to "Enhanced".  Try changing it to "Legacy" and see if that solves the problem.

I just tried the "Legacy"-option and still it shows no second damage popup in missions.

Ah, I did some testing against some enemies with more health and now it shows the second damage popup.
Maybe this is the explanation for what I experienced with the Level 1 enemies (I tested with): The first bullet already killed the enemy, so the second bullet (from multishot) didn't got a visible damage-number-popup.

Sry, I wasn't the smartest 😅

[Tiltskillet]

52 minutes ago, Zeussys said:

Maybe this is the explanation for what I experienced with the Level 1 enemies (I tested with): The first bullet already killed the enemy, so the second bullet (from multishot) didn't got a visible damage-number-popup.

That makes complete sense and I should have thought to ask about enemy level.

  I generally do these tests against the highest level enemies I can, just to avoid assorted problems like that. It's often convenient to test against Eximus too: they have even more hp, and Overguard removes some other variables.