Blindly following the "meta" is the single worst statergy in the game and actively ruins it for others.

[A-Flying-Brick]

First off, as long as you're having fun and not ruining the game for others, go off. Use whatever frames, weapons, pets, etc you want. I wish that wasn't a "controversial" statement but to some it is. On the first page of this very thread at least one "devoted" meta user will attempt to rebuff everything here and try to paint my experiences/opinions as false because it doesn't aline with their very narrow worldview. I've made a couple of threads about how toxic those players are and regretably they have got worse as the game has become more open and welcome. Warframe at its core is designed to allow a huge verity of builds to not just be viable but fun. Sure some equipment has worse numbers than others but that's just the nature of how the stats work. With the release of Duviri many of the "lower tier" or early game weapons gained incarnon forms, making them more viable and expanding the number of possibilities.

A lot of people ask "what is meta?", you'll hear people say it stands for "Most Effective Tactic Available" which is not the case, especially in Warframe. Metagaming is a stratergy where you use knowledge gained from outside of the game to craft a better strategy. It's observing others then experimenting with what's available to succeed and advance. Not running Wukong Limbo Octavia Revenant because that's the "agreed upon" meta this week.

So where do these metas come from? That's tricky. Many are just straight up lifted from various content creators, even "joke builds" in some cases. Others are from builds being shared, modified and evolved by people who actually put the effort into experimenting and sharing them to help others. The darker side is magically the meta will be whatever gear is vaulted or has been vaulted for a while or somewhat hard to get. While it's a bit of a conspiracy theory, just remember the Riven Mafia is a thing. The best way to turn a profit is to sell whatever the current meta is. Mark my words, Harrow, Knell and/or Scourge will magically become meta the second Wisp Prime drops.

Well how is it toxic? On the surface it's not. But sadly there is a very small but vocal group who will openly berate anyone who even slightly steps out of line and ruin missions if they don't get the biggest number or 3 players who will bindly worship them for being the best. Their current "meta" is shield gating on everything. For those who don't know, when your shield breaks you get a small invulnerability window. So running minmal shields (normally with a Decaying Dragon Key) allows the user to spam that window. It's a somewhat tricky strategy, that I really don't believe is that effective, that is also rough for newer players who don't understand the finer mechanics of the game and why all these people recommend it. Another reason it's not great is that it is very weak to toxin and to a less extent magnetic damage. Toxin bypasses shields and magnetic does bonus damage to shields. They will never adapt, only complain when they get insta-dropped by an Infested Osprey.

Another example of negative metas is the camping meta on Survival missions. Camping lowers the number of kills you can get because all the spawns have to travel to the corner all the players are in. This often leads to not enough life support dropping. Another flaw with this plan is that it is very easy for certain units to rush that corner, particularly Infested Ospreys and Eximus units. Trying to explain that to meta players is like pulling teeth because "that's not how it works" or "it's the meta to camp". A much better option is to find a large open room (more doors the better) where life support modules are. There's a few each map and you can always move if all the life support is used up. But you will always get meta players who will sit in a corner, pulling spawns (making less life support drop for the big room) and ruining it for others. Sure high damage builds can deal with those units but there is still not enough life support. It can no longer drop from Warframe abilities that cause extra drops and it's drop rate has be drastically nerfed as well. You need to get out there and get kills.

Some might ask, why does this thread exist? And it's existance is due to seeing how meta players have reacted to Kullervo (and Duviri as a whole). There have been posts calling Kullervo "a glass cannon, like Inaros". I spat my drink when I saw that. In my experiance (from Circuit) and my friend's experiance from farming him day 1 and using him ever since is that he is like Inaros, a beast in the right hands. Because Kullervo doesn't have shields, you can't shield-gate. Which threatens the shield-gating meta and the value of rare shield mods like Brief Respite. Yes I know they just updated him to make him able to sorta shield-gate but that'll just make the meta players go off at any healer who dares give them any extra overguard from healing them.

There's this real "f-k you, got mine" mentally with many of these players. For example, they are not happy you can earn certain arcanes from circuit, because they had to grind or pay for them. Previously they were only from Eidolon hunts and events like Operation: Orphix Venom when many of these users farmed them in large numbers and have been selling them for shockingly high prices. They're openly hostile at the idea that regualar players can get them easier now and that the new content isn't high level endgame stuff but instead a better opportunity for everyone to get good gear without grinding or paying their prices. Another example is the sher hostility they have towards players who don't follow the meta. The amount of vitriol I've seen is shocking. I had one last week who went off at me for explaining to a new player how Lichs work. They told me to "stop talking and shoot" as they ran their current meta Revenant build. I was Octavia (very non meta build) and got highter numbers while typing the whole time. They were very angry when I pointed that out. The defence target took no damage either. Another example of this vitriol is Limbo players. I've mentioned how desperately Limbo needs a rework to remove the toxic elements built into his kit as they will spam Banish on players and spam their Cataclysm to the annoyance of others. They will go off at you for, you know, wanting to be able to shoot enemies.

The TL;DR is this:

• There's a vocal small subset of players who get big mad when someone gets bigger numbers than their "meta" build.
• New players are often fed false and misleading information under the guise of it being the only way to succeed.
• The "meta" is easily manipulated by farming/trading groups who want to maximise profits.
• Shield-gating is awful.
• Don't camp in Survival.
• Limbo and the players who use him are the absolute worst.

[treemusick-1962]

Meta isn't real. Not here anyway.

[A-Flying-Brick]

1 minute ago, treemusick-1962 said:

Meta isn't real. Not here anyway.

Tell that to the people who tell me my Titania isn't viable and to try shield-gating.

[Pakaku]

1 minute ago, A-Flying-Brick said:

Tell that to the people who tell me my Titania isn't viable and to try shield-gating.

Is that what it's about? I would just ignore them, doesn't matter what they say if however you're playing is working

[A-Flying-Brick]

1 minute ago, Pakaku said:

Is that what it's about? I would just ignore them, doesn't matter what they say if however you're playing is working

I pride myself on being flexable and trying to make fun builds on just about every frame and oh boy do they not like number go up higher for me or worse when number not go up high, they get abusive and act like I'm ruining it for them. There's often no winning with those folks.

Titania is one of those frames where you kinda don't see her doing stuff so she becomes an easy target for abusive players looking for someone to attack.

It's one of the reasons one of my friends hates having open lobbies because we nearly always get one come in and hurl abuse at one of us for not following the meta.

[treemusick-1962]

Try the kompressa and secura penta they're fun and good. And isn't titania used like A LOT?

[RafMatador22]

I don't give a S#&$ what others use, I just don't like to be bothered, For example, once I died and activated teno to resurrect with last grap, a guy came and killed all the enemies at once with a kuva zarr , which I was trying to kill with my amp, and then he died and was on the ground, my tenno died and I was on the ground too, if it's not going to help me, don't bother me at least.

[MutoManiac]

Probably not the meta that is the problem, but just crappy people. I was berated the other day after failing a hack in a sortie for the first time in 2.5 years. I apologized to the group, but this loser just kept on berating cause it was a whole 2 mins wasted.

[Leqesai]

53 minutes ago, A-Flying-Brick said:

Tell that to the people who tell me my Titania isn't viable and to try shield-gating.

Isn't Titania spamming Thermal Sunder one of the youtube-meta builds?

[FBalfour]

I love when meta followers (not to be confused with meta players, there is a difference) come into my lobbies. They are so warm and fuzzy and kind and polite and have no problem with my joke build getting higher numbers than them! Wait, no, that's a dream I had once. Good dream. Nah, they fill my inbox with pure vitriol and hate.

The difference between meta players and meta followers is meta players are always on the hunt to find the next big thing, and tend to get excited when they find it. Meta followers get upset that they have to learn something new and then my DMs get flooded with hate and the occasional hilarious insult. It's a great time for everyone.

6 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Isn't Titania spamming Thermal Sunder one of the youtube-meta builds?

Not sure. All I know is Titania with Fractured Blast go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[A-Flying-Brick]

2 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Isn't Titania spamming Thermal Sunder one of the youtube-meta builds?

One of them yeah. Personally haven't seen it in action very much. She's able to cast in Pixie form so you can do some really fun stuff with that.

35 minutes ago, treemusick-1962 said:

And isn't titania used like A LOT?

Top 25% iirc, but I feel like those numbers are inflated by her commonplace use in certain mission types like Void Flood and Mirror Defence. She's a solid frame but can be a bit squishy. Also sufferes greatly if there's a Wisp or Volt spamming speed. Ask me how I know...

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

Title is true. All that articulation is tldr, so I'll just leave it at agreeing with the general statement. 

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

MBR ( meta brain rot) is a problem in the playerbase, cause people are playing this game like a job instead of a video game

[AntifreezeUnder0]

The issue is meta more than not is best way to do gaming content in the beggining.

Then there come phase where individuals land on their favourite loadout or loadouts to have fun.

What ruins the fun is that heavy populated missions become walking simulators and it smore a race who kill first or fast.

Then again its also pleasant to see that in 40 min sp survival stug is doing 45% of dmg :D  and more if manage to leech of vauban vortex.

[Leqesai]

5 minutes ago, AntifreezeUnder0 said:

40 min sp survival stug is doing 45% of dmg

Oh you've seen me with my stuggy? :P

[AntifreezeUnder0]

Just now, Leqesai said:

Oh you've seen me with my stuggy? :P

Nop , i think mind sharing build?

[SolStreak]

You've got so many points the cactus grow envious of you. That was a compliment btw haha.

I've been very lucky that I have never met any players in Public that are vocal enough to complain about DPS ranking in the chat, or about my warframe and the build I use.

Also yeah, I kinda starting to hate Survival camping, escpecially in SP Incursions and Arbitration. This here is where I met complains the most, especially from the Shedu Wisp.

Your comment about Limbo however, I can't say I fully agree. 
I've met Limbo that intentionally uses low range to make small Cataclysm, thus reducing the chance to annoy other squadmates. You might be just unfortunate enough to meet that one particular guy that mains Limbo and insist to control all the enemies, haha. 

[RichardKam]

The problem with meta is people trying to rank every species in the entire animal kingdom by their ability to swim.

Every frame is good as long as they can get their jobs done while you are having fun. 

As for Limbo, I think the long standing problem is Limbo always stops other people from having fun. 

[A-Flying-Brick]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

MBR ( meta brain rot) is a problem in the playerbase, cause people are playing this game like a job instead of a video game

I don't have concrete evidence but I do believe there is a subset that are literally using it like a job. I've seen some of these meta folks flexing on reddit about how much plat they have from buying and selling, really sad tbh.

Seen a fair few accounts that have odd gear masteries and strange ratios of playtime vs skill that I'm inclined to believe exist only to be sold or have been sold. It's not out of the question that there are accounts out there that have been artificially leveled or been mass created just to sell later.

Considering I've seen a number of toxic players come back with a variation of "I don't care if you report me, I'll just get a new account.", it's not out of the question. But sometimes a parent's credit card is often the answer there. Still many games have a thriving account selling trade (majorly against ToS guys, not advocating it here), so it does not surprise me in the slightist that it's occuring in Warframe. It's just in a more roundabout way because of trade restrictions and whatnot.

[RichardKam]

13分钟前 , A-Flying-Brick 说:

I don't have concrete evidence but I do believe there is a subset that are literally using it like a job. I've seen some of these meta folks flexing on reddit about how much plat they have from buying and selling, really sad tbh.

Seen a fair few accounts that have odd gear masteries and strange ratios of playtime vs skill that I'm inclined to believe exist only to be sold or have been sold. It's not out of the question that there are accounts out there that have been artificially leveled or been mass created just to sell later.

Considering I've seen a number of toxic players come back with a variation of "I don't care if you report me, I'll just get a new account.", it's not out of the question. But sometimes a parent's credit card is often the answer there. Still many games have a thriving account selling trade (majorly against ToS guys, not advocating it here), so it does not surprise me in the slightist that it's occuring in Warframe. It's just in a more roundabout way because of trade restrictions and whatnot.

Believe me, RMT and account trading are rampant in a certain corner on this Earth. Not only for Warframe but also for other online games as well.

It is against ToS. Don't do it.

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, AntifreezeUnder0 said:

Nop , i think mind sharing build?

Never! Its my secret build!!

:P

[FBalfour]

52 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

The problem with meta is people trying to rank every species in the entire animal kingdom by their ability to swim.

Holy cow. This is absolutely, hands down, the best way I've ever heard "meta" described, for any game. Take my like!

[A-Flying-Brick]

17 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

Believe me, RMT and account trading are rampant in a certain corner on this Earth. Not only for Warframe but also for other online games as well.

It is against ToS. Don't do it.

Oh boy I am aware of that.

--It's very against ToS, do not support or participate in RMT or account trading--

It's often the same areas you see many other scams come out of because loose legalities and criminal gangs taking advantage of cheap labour. Awful conditions supporting very horrible industries. It's not like a bunch of kids earning some extra cash on the side, it is organised crime laundering money and funding their other ventures.

It will not surprise me if they are manipulating the market in order to create a better return on investment.

[gamingchair1121]

2 hours ago, A-Flying-Brick said:

Another example of negative metas is the camping meta on Survival missions. Camping lowers the number of kills you can get because all the spawns have to travel to the corner all the players are in. This often leads to not enough life support dropping. Another flaw with this plan is that it is very easy for certain units to rush that corner, particularly Infested Ospreys and Eximus units. Trying to explain that to meta players is like pulling teeth because "that's not how it works" or "it's the meta to camp". A much better option is to find a large open room (more doors the better) where life support modules are. There's a few each map and you can always move if all the life support is used up. But you will always get meta players who will sit in a corner, pulling spawns (making less life support drop for the big room) and ruining it for others. Sure high damage builds can deal with those units but there is still not enough life support. It can no longer drop from Warframe abilities that cause extra drops and it's drop rate has be drastically nerfed as well. You need to get out there and get kills.

I will never understand the people that go out of their way to the game boring

what's the point? to get rewards? what are you using those rewards for? to get more powerful? why bother when you're not even trying to make the game fun? like if you want a job go get a real one lol (you get paid for it too). games are meant for fun, they are not to be treated as a second job.

2 hours ago, A-Flying-Brick said:

Another example of this vitriol is Limbo players. I've mentioned how desperately Limbo needs a rework to remove the toxic elements built into his kit as they will spam Banish on players and spam their Cataclysm to the annoyance of others. They will go off at you for, you know, wanting to be able to shoot enemies.

the fact that DE has still not fully solved trolling with limbo after nine years, even after a rework, is just absurd

literally all they need to do is just let allies bypass the rift, that's it. not saying that I know how exactly the rift is coded, but if it's how I would assume, it would at most only take redoing how rift damage absorption is calculated (like how you can't hit across the rift with weapons), and make allies ignore that part of it. almost all abilities do this already, it really shouldn't be that hard to get teammate's weapons doing the same.

[FBalfour]

3 minutes ago, gamingchair1121 said:

the fact that DE has still not fully solved trolling with limbo after nine years, even after a rework, is just absurd

literally all they need to do is just let allies bypass the rift, that's it. not saying that I know how exactly the rift is coded, but if it's how I would assume, it would at most only take redoing how rift damage absorption is calculated (like how you can't hit across the rift with weapons), and make allies ignore that part of it. almost all abilities do this already, it really shouldn't be that hard to get teammate's weapons doing the same.

You know you can roll out of rift, right?