The Yareli Problem.

[(XBOX)K1jker]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Voltage:

Yeah, this "Yareli problem" is actually an Ivara problem that Yareli inherited. Titania is proof that this shouldn't really be an issue.

This should be pinned.. 

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My only problem with Yareli is her being full size on Merulina.. imagine if titania were full size in her mode.. makes no sense and makes everything awkward sadly

[ShogunGunshow]

I assume if it was simple, Yareli would have gotten the changes by now. I also assume when they made the K-drive, they didn't really account for Warframe abilities, and all of Yareli's were designed as specific exceptions - because Merulina is just a k-drive port.

So, short of going in and designing a similar exception for every single helminth ability every single time a new one is added, they might have to do, like, a redesign of Merulina's code from the ground up, so that it's not a k-drive with a few exceptions, but an ability that just happens to very much perform LIKE a k-drive but doesn't lead to lockouts.

Unfortunately that would be the kind of thing DE would be like 'we'll save that for Prime so there's even more reason to come back and play her.' 

[TARINunit9]

23 hours ago, Chemomancer said:

I don't really see this as a major issue - could she not just do the same animation on her board?

In a general sense, it should depend on whether it's an upper torso animation, or a full body animation

Strictly speaking there's no theoretical limit at all and a more lax/slapdash approach could absolutely have every animation allowed while on merluna. Imagine just randomly throwing out Roar with your feet floating over merluna's sides. But I digress. Some animations only involve your arms, sometimes a little chest rotation, these are the simple abilities like Volt's 1 or Mesa's 3, they're so simple they don't even interrupt reloading. These SHOULD (from a technical standpoint) be possible on merluna (and ziplines) but most aren't permitted regardless because DE just says no

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

14 hours ago, Hexerin said:

There is literally no reason that Yareli can't just use the same animation she uses for her natural ability in whatever slot you subsumed into. This isn't complicated. The only reason we can't get things like this, is because of soulless simps like you who spend 24/7 in their basement and fight tooth and nail against any change or improvement to the game.

Calling someone a simp is you expressing your own weakness dude. You can keep that to yourself and focus on the subject.

With that out of the way, I, and others, tried to explain that it's an anchoring issue, not just an animation issue. Clearly DE is making advancements but they are not there yet. I also said I hope they do make it happen, not that it should not happen. 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

7 hours ago, Voltage said:

If you're only going to do something halfway, don't bother doing it at all.

Helminth is part of the game and needs to work on Merulina and Zipline. If they can't make that functionality work, they shouldn't bother making these special abilities that root the Warframe in a way where it restricts their behavior compared to the rest of the roster. 

DE doesn't face a problem with implementation difficulty, they face a decade of backlog. I'd argue such an issue as this is high priority. Why? I don't play Yareli, so why would I say that? Because Warframes are the staple title of the game itself and they better all have the same opportunity of mechanical usage. Helminth must work on all Warframes in the same way.

This isn't about whether it's simple, it's about whether it's a profitable opportunity cost. Yareli is already old news. She may as well be Atlas. 

Im so tired of this excuse about whether something can or cannot be fixed to make it seem like there is actually difficulty in these areas when the issue has been clearly mismanagement for years. Why do you think this QoL update finally arose in 2023 and not years prior? They are awesome changes, but some of them are several years overdue, especially the ones as simple as changing Faction Damage mod descriptions to read as a multiplier and not a percentage.

This may sound harsh, but in my line of work, if you're going to do a hack-job to finish something, you should find another career. If I had the work ethic as these modern video games that are often held together by glue and popsicle sticks, I'd be unemployed.

Nothing about this is half done. HER abilities work fine on Merulina. Taking on another frame's ability via subsuming has no reason to just be allowed to be casted on Merulina, especially if some of those abilities have animation sequences that are too involving. And, yes, Helminth works exactly the same way on every frame: No frame can cast a subsumed ability on a vehicle. Yes, we want it, but who ever said it SHOULD be that way. There's is nothing wrong with any of this. We just want it to function that way but there's a restriction in place...on every frame.

Now, you mentioned work ethic and finishing. You do realize you're talking about a highly regarded dev team, right? And who told you it wasn't "finished"? Just because you think something should be a certain way does not mean it's not made through hard work and care nor does it mean there was any intention of making your way work. Again, I would like to see it happen too, but you are pushing it with the dev accusations. 

Sidenote - You don't fire who's making you millions of dollars.

[Voltage]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Nothing about this is half done. HER abilities work fine on Merulina. Taking on another frame's ability via subsuming has no reason to just be allowed to be casted on Merulina, especially if some of those abilities have animation sequences that are too involving. And, yes, Helminth works exactly the same way on every frame: No frame can cast a subsumed ability on a vehicle. Yes, we want it, but who ever said it SHOULD be that way. There's is nothing wrong with any of this. We just want it to function that way but there's a restriction in place...on every frame.

If a Warframe releasing is not compatible with existing Warframe function, it shouldn't be bothered to be released. This half-bake feature development cycle is what leads to things falling apart over something as small as a Fissure booster. You mention "cannot cast subsume abilities on a vehicle", yet Titania does just that while in Razorwing.

3 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Now, you mentioned work ethic and finishing. You do realize you're talking about a highly regarded dev team, right? And who told you it wasn't "finished"? Just because you think something should be a certain way does not mean it's not made through hard work and care nor does it mean there was any intention of making your way work. Again, I would like to see it happen too, but you are pushing it with the dev accusations. 

You can easily work hard in the wrong direction or still release something incomplete. I am not arguing whether the developers of Warframe put in their best effort, I am merely pointing out the attitude of "ah this is good enough", and it leads to a decade of backlog that is now way too long to address. Things as simple as changing Faction Damage to a multiplier instead of a percentage on a mod description took 10 years.

8 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Sidenote - You don't fire who's making you millions of dollars.

And this is why games these days are often unfinished, because this is all that matters now, as we see with Heirloom collections. Actually making sure things are coherent apparently doesn't matter, because it's profitable to not bother. That was where my original comment was coming from.

If Helminth can't function properly for all Warframes, then those Warframes should be fixed, or the entire mechanic shouldn't be a thing. This type of feature-creep that isn't even consistent across the board is just another layer of additional problems that the game doesn't need.

[Nekomian]

1 hour ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

With that out of the way, I, and others, tried to explain that it's an anchoring issue, not just an animation issue. Clearly DE is making advancements but they are not there yet. I also said I hope they do make it happen, not that it should not happen. 

So I won't pretend to fully understand Warframe's code base, but I do know that they use lua scripts for abilities; on triggering an ability, that script is called and certain things are run, one of which is probably a call to the animation controller to play whatever animation is associated with the skill. While on Merulina, this call could be intercepted (or prevented) and a "generic" one could be used specifically for Yareli to play another animation instead. There's already tons of instances of animation interrupts that happen in the game, so this honestly should not be an issue specifically with the rigging either. You could have the animation controller directly check if the frame is on Merulina when an event is passed to it, to avoid broken animations. Other skill animations (like effects and stuff) already clip into cosmetics all the time, so I honestly don't see those as an issue either.

Ideally they would not have to do this and design the skill to work better with the animations, but at the very minimum the Helminth system should function for all frames and their skills - they specifically designed a frame with this k-drive feature in mind and wanted to innovate on it, and have to deal with all the complexities that come with it.

1 hour ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

And, yes, Helminth works exactly the same way on every frame: No frame can cast a subsumed ability on a vehicle. Yes, we want it, but who ever said it SHOULD be that way. There's is nothing wrong with any of this. We just want it to function that way but there's a restriction in place...on every frame.

Except no other frame has an ability that functions like this, and that actively benefits from being used in such a manner. No one is asking for every frame to be able to cast abilities on a vehicle, JUST Yareli on her own skill, Merulina, because it artificially locks her out of helminth subsumes when her kit is based around staying on Merulina and casting skills while riding (i.e. her passive and certain abilities benefit from it).

[(PSN)rexis12]

Or if they're too lazy, why not just do what they've done with some non Merulina compatible animations and just... have none.

Like hacking is still just Yarelli posing in front of it, as is enemy capture. If they're too lazy for animations, just abandon that and make it so that the Abilities at least work.