Story Skip: Compilation of why this is a bad idea

[SneakyErvin]

8 hours ago, (PSN)FirmBizkit said:

The game also for some reason gets lumped in with Looter Shooters like Borderlands and Destiny even though they’re nothing alike and it’s more like a traditional MMORPG with heavy Diablo/ARPG influence.

That is a really odd statement when WF practically shares nothing with MMOs but has alot of similarities to Borderlands, which in itself is like a shooter Diablo. The few things that really sets WF apart from Diablo and Borderlands is that 99% of WF item hunting is based around blueprints and crafting that results in no RNG stats. And there is no classic level progression so replacing items/gear doesnt occur as often or in the same sense as in Diablo or Borderlands. But other than that they are nearly identical with specific boss or tile runs to get X item and so on. 

Also for that matter, looter shooter is simply a sub-genre of arpgs, while Diablo, PoE and Grim Dawn are considered isometric hack 'n slash arpgs, Borderlands is a looter shooter, WF is a horde looter shooter rpg and Outriders would be a tactical looter shooter rpg. Borderlands just misses the rpg mark since you play an already exsisting character with its pre-defined personality and history.

[(PSN)FirmBizkit]

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

That is a really odd statement when WF practically shares nothing with MMOs but has alot of similarities to Borderlands, which in itself is like a shooter Diablo. The few things that really sets WF apart from Diablo and Borderlands is that 99% of WF item hunting is based around blueprints and crafting that results in no RNG stats. And there is no classic level progression so replacing items/gear doesnt occur as often or in the same sense as in Diablo or Borderlands. But other than that they are nearly identical with specific boss or tile runs to get X item and so on. 

Also for that matter, looter shooter is simply a sub-genre of arpgs, while Diablo, PoE and Grim Dawn are considered isometric hack 'n slash arpgs, Borderlands is a looter shooter, WF is a horde looter shooter rpg and Outriders would be a tactical looter shooter rpg. Borderlands just misses the rpg mark since you play an already exsisting character with its pre-defined personality and history.

“The few things that set WF apart… is that 99% of WF item hunting is based around blueprints and crafting…”

The core defining element of what makes a Looter Shooter (or any kind of looter for that matter) is procedurally generated loot - a.k.a ‘random rolls’. From Hellgate to Division to Destiny to Borderlands to Anthem to Outriders this is what makes a Looter Shooter.

Crafting, Gathering, Quest/Story based progression, Social interaction, Guild/Clan systems, Reputation systems are all strong MMORPG characteristics. Even Warframes entire player economy is straight out of the 90/00s early MMOs like Runescape.

You also said it yourself there isn’t really any level progression. That’s true, Warframes progression is very horizontal. Back before World of Warcraft most MMORPGs were very horizontal in their progression and most “old school” MMORPGs today (like Black Desert) are still horizontal or have minimal vertical progression.

In regards to it being like Diablo it’s the horde modes, build crafting and near endless level scaling that is comparable gameplay wise and everything else is comparable to an MMORPG. It’s nothing like a looter shooter by comparison.

All of these genres and sub genres mishmash together but there are definitely elements of all of them that are more present than others. At the end of the day they’re all RPGs and anyone who enjoys those is going to enjoy this but I think it’s a big disservice to call it a Looter Shooter because it doesn’t give a good impression of everything the game has to offer and sets a bad expectation. Imagine you come into WF expecting a shower of randomly rolled loot to rain down from a boss only to… not. Then having no idea about the games MMO-like systems even existing - like I did.

Edited October 31, 2023 by (PSN)FirmBizkit

[SneakyErvin]

16 hours ago, (PSN)FirmBizkit said:

“The few things that set WF apart… is that 99% of WF item hunting is based around blueprints and crafting…”

The core defining element of what makes a Looter Shooter (or any kind of looter for that matter) is procedurally generated loot - a.k.a ‘random rolls’. From Hellgate to Division to Destiny to Borderlands to Anthem to Outriders this is what makes a Looter Shooter.

Crafting, Gathering, Quest/Story based progression, Social interaction, Guild/Clan systems, Reputation systems are all strong MMORPG characteristics. Even Warframes entire player economy is straight out of the 90/00s early MMOs like Runescape.

You also said it yourself there isn’t really any level progression. That’s true, Warframes progression is very horizontal. Back before World of Warcraft most MMORPGs were very horizontal in their progression and most “old school” MMORPGs today (like Black Desert) are still horizontal or have minimal vertical progression.

In regards to it being like Diablo it’s the horde modes, build crafting and near endless level scaling that is comparable gameplay wise and everything else is comparable to an MMORPG. It’s nothing like a looter shooter by comparison.

All of these genres and sub genres mishmash together but there are definitely elements of all of them that are more present than others. At the end of the day they’re all RPGs and anyone who enjoys those is going to enjoy this but I think it’s a big disservice to call it a Looter Shooter because it doesn’t give a good impression of everything the game has to offer and sets a bad expectation. Imagine you come into WF expecting a shower of randomly rolled loot to rain down from a boss only to… not. Then having no idea about the games MMO-like systems even existing - like I did.

No, the core defining element is simply loot hunting, it doesnt matter if it has RNG stats or not. And no the other characteristics are simply RPG mechanics, or in the case of social features MO mechanics. Being an MMO (which is not an opposite of arpg/looter shooter or mutually exclusive) requires underlying fundamental design, such as a server structure and specific social interactions that we just dont have access to here, not are there access to that in games like PoE or D3 either. We have no sporadic social interaction nor a living persistant world. Everything is instanced and comes down to active grouping if you want to engage with others. 

And just because "most" MMOs were horizontal it doesnt mean all were, nor does it changes anything for a game to be a looter shooter or arpg, since being horizontal or not is not a requirement to determine the loot hunt loop or the combat. Star Wars Galaxies for instance was a sandbox based MMORPG, no real linear progression, no strict goals etc. That didnt change that it was both an MMO and a RPG.

But it is everything like a looter shooter in comparison. WF isnt isometric, it relies on abilities, melee and guns, where the guns have actually shooter mechanics, like ammo, reload, spread, aiming, recoil etc. We also farm loot from monsters and bosses aswell as grab things from vendors i.e a looter. And please stop using the acronym MMO, since there is nothing MMO about WF. It is just an arpg with optional co-op and part of the looter shooter sub genre. It just has a heavier focus on the rpg elements like crafting, reputation and gathering compared to others like Outriders or Borderlands. You'd effectively have to remove the gunplay and melee mechanics in order for it to not be a looter shooter.

And again, not MMO-systems. It's RPG systems. MMO refers to something completely different. Firefall, Defiance = MMO-looter shooters for instance. WF, Outriders and Borderlands = MO-looter shooters, where the MO part is optional and not persistant.

[(PSN)FirmBizkit]

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

No, the core defining element is simply loot hunting, it doesnt matter if it has RNG stats or not. And no the other characteristics are simply RPG mechanics, or in the case of social features MO mechanics. Being an MMO (which is not an opposite of arpg/looter shooter or mutually exclusive) requires underlying fundamental design, such as a server structure and specific social interactions that we just dont have access to here, not are there access to that in games like PoE or D3 either. We have no sporadic social interaction nor a living persistant world. Everything is instanced and comes down to active grouping if you want to engage with others. 

And just because "most" MMOs were horizontal it doesnt mean all were, nor does it changes anything for a game to be a looter shooter or arpg, since being horizontal or not is not a requirement to determine the loot hunt loop or the combat. Star Wars Galaxies for instance was a sandbox based MMORPG, no real linear progression, no strict goals etc. That didnt change that it was both an MMO and a RPG.

But it is everything like a looter shooter in comparison. WF isnt isometric, it relies on abilities, melee and guns, where the guns have actually shooter mechanics, like ammo, reload, spread, aiming, recoil etc. We also farm loot from monsters and bosses aswell as grab things from vendors i.e a looter. And please stop using the acronym MMO, since there is nothing MMO about WF. It is just an arpg with optional co-op and part of the looter shooter sub genre. It just has a heavier focus on the rpg elements like crafting, reputation and gathering compared to others like Outriders or Borderlands. You'd effectively have to remove the gunplay and melee mechanics in order for it to not be a looter shooter.

And again, not MMO-systems. It's RPG systems. MMO refers to something completely different. Firefall, Defiance = MMO-looter shooters for instance. WF, Outriders and Borderlands = MO-looter shooters, where the MO part is optional and not persistant.

The literal defining feature of a “looter” is procedurally generated loot. 
 

By your same definitions then RuneScape is a “looter” because you grind loot from enemies.

I kinda feel like you just don’t like the MMO association. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by (PSN)FirmBizkit

[CephalonCarnage]

On 2023-10-29 at 6:02 AM, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

You literally can buy knowledge and skill. I know this, because I brought books, that taught me logic, rhetoric, linguistics, definitions, meaning

No, you cannot. you bought a book. To obtain the knowledge inside you had to read it. That took time and effort on your part, You cannot buy knowledge, only access.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

3 hours ago, CephalonCarnage said:

No, you cannot. you bought a book. To obtain the knowledge inside you had to read it. That took time and effort on your part, You cannot buy knowledge, only access.

 

Can, knowledge doesn't spring forth magically from the ether. It can be brought. Just like it can be recorded or stored.  Which thus means it can be viewed in a transactional way. What you are covering here is semantics, and the idea knowledge can be attained through other means, like without paying for it, like having free access to it. Which sure, I didn't say otherwise. To put it another way, imagine if I tried to argue with you that you don't have to pay for access, as if I was correcting you? 

Genuine question. Are you being sincere with this, or looking for an argument? 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Here's another argument, I think is more sincere and better than a lot I have seen. Creatively, when structuring and creating new story content, DE now have to consider the idea that it has to be relatively new player friendly, as well as catering to those who have played all the story quests. Its not an impossible challenge, but it still means certain artistic and creative compromises must be had. you can't necessarily just throw in story elements and moments if they would overly frustrate or confuse brand new players. (Though subjectively speaking, Warframe story quests aren't near that level of complexity, and they often have a lot of establishing context and often new content introduces a lot of elements they take care to introduce even to players who have done and finished everything... hypothetically for the future though, could still be argued to be creatively limiting or sets a precedent they need to work around creatively. Like if we ever got Excalibur Umbra follow ups etc not having done Sacrifice would be odd. Whispers in the Wall will also potentially be a good argument when it releases too, because we once again seem to be getting more Man in the Wall, but Chains of Harrow, New War especially have so much build up so like... 

Unfortunately as far as the feedback I have seen, this isn't anyway near the issue that say Heirlooms or Regal Aya were, as far as numbers of people feeling just negatively. The Reddit thread is far more positive, ratio wise, compared to threads about the aforementioned, and we have people thinking quantity of arguments is more important than quality. Still important to keep wanting your voice heard and criticism, but I tend to think refined arguments help. Vehemence, insistence, drawing up sides, picking arguments less so. 

[-Krism-]

6 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Can, knowledge doesn't spring forth magically from the ether. It can be brought. Just like it can be recorded or stored.  Which thus means it can be viewed in a transactional way. What you are covering here is semantics, and the idea knowledge can be attained through other means, like without paying for it, like having free access to it. Which sure, I didn't say otherwise. To put it another way, imagine if I tried to argue with you that you don't have to pay for access, as if I was correcting you? 

Genuine question. Are you being sincere with this, or looking for an argument? 

Stop it, you're wrong, admit it ffs

New players that buy the Pay2Skip pack won't magically know everything & learn all the skills of the game

 

This is like people who think buying a better mouse, keyboard, & chair will increase their skill in PvP games, that's just not how it works

[CephalonCarnage]

8 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

 

Can, knowledge doesn't spring forth magically from the ether. It can be brought. Just like it can be recorded or stored.  Which thus means it can be viewed in a transactional way. What you are covering here is semantics, and the idea knowledge can be attained through other means, like without paying for it, like having free access to it. Which sure, I didn't say otherwise. To put it another way, imagine if I tried to argue with you that you don't have to pay for access, as if I was correcting you? 

Genuine question. Are you being sincere with this, or looking for an argument? 

I have bought a book that is sitting on my shelf, unread. Tell me again how I know the knowledge contained within it.

Its a magical idea you have, that I can purchase knowledge. I'd buy a library (or simply visit the local library's coffee shop for free) and be a god, mouhahah. But I cannot. I only gain the knowledge through the tedious process of reading. I can buy nothing but paper and ink. To get the knowledge, I must transfer the thoughts from the author to myself via the process of reading (and understanding). Buying the book is insufficient.

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, (PSN)FirmBizkit said:

The literal defining feature of a “looter” is procedurally generated loot. 
 

By your same definitions then RuneScape is a “looter” because you grind loot from enemies.

I kinda feel like you just don’t like the MMO association. 

When you sound like you are reciting wikipedia, maybe actually read the wikipedia site that you recite. The same site that brings up Warframe as a specific influental game to the looter shooter sub genre. Also procedurally generate loot doesnt only refer to that the stats are RNG, it refers to a roll being made when you kill a mob regarding if something drops or not. Like running Midgets or Trees over and over in BL2 in hopes to get their specific drops to even drop, while the game also has the stat RNG layer when something drops. Or SW2 monster farming in general to get the right upgrades while the weapons in the game are predefined and guaranteed to obtain from certain places and activities.

I've never played Runescape. If the gear progression is based around farming loot with RNG drop rates from specific places then yes it is very much a looter. The moment RNG gets involved in the itemization and promotes re-running a certain encounter for either better rolls on guanranteed drops or a chance for a specific item to drop at all it is effectively a looter. WF has blueprints/components for specific items both from bosses and trash, WF has RNG drop rates for mods from specific mobs, bosses, puzzles etc, WF has RNG based stat loot in Rivens, RJ components and nemesis weapons. We chase loot, that is pretty much the core of WF, we also use third person shooter gunplay, it is the very definition of looter shooter.

It is hard to like something that is 100% unrelated to the game. What defines an MMO has nothing to do with what you think, since it isnt mutually exclusive to what is discussed. The 3 major keypoints that define if a game is an MMO or not are the following.

1. Server structure. There to allow a massively multiplayer interaction between players. WF allows for up to uhm a whooping 8 players (when trials exsisted) to interact at the same time. Path of Exile which runs on dedicated servers does not even achieve this, since it is still limited to 4 player groups while also missing the next two following keypoints.

2. A persistant world which is possible due to point 1 being achieved. WF has no persistance in the world. When players exit an instance that instance dies, while in an MMO it continues on no matter if there are 100 or 0 players currently in it. The exception is often dungeons, but even those can live on after exit if instanced. Some games dont even use instances for dungeons, so they live on infinitely.

3. Sporadic unplanned player to player interaction. Something that does not exsist in WF either. You will not run around in the world and accidentally bump into another player. You must be open to a public group and then either end up as client or host.

These points are what seperates MOs from MMOs, this is what makes WF, Martyr, Outriders, PoE, Shadow Warrior 2 and Borderlands arpg/looter shooter MOs and a game similar to them like Marvel Heroes (R.I.P) an MMO(ARPG). What other systems they have incommon or not doesnt matter on wether or not they are MMOs.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

4 hours ago, CephalonCarnage said:

I have bought a book that is sitting on my shelf, unread. Tell me again how I know the knowledge contained within it.

Its a magical idea you have, that I can purchase knowledge. I'd buy a library (or simply visit the local library's coffee shop for free) and be a god, mouhahah. But I cannot. I only gain the knowledge through the tedious process of reading. I can buy nothing but paper and ink. To get the knowledge, I must transfer the thoughts from the author to myself via the process of reading (and understanding). Buying the book is insufficient.

 

Do you know or presuppose the book contains information, data, understanding or awareness or similar, that if you read, would expand your understanding, familiarity, awareness I ways that can be applied practically or theoretically? Can you confirm or affirm your tacit assumption, and draw further conclusions? 

You don't just have to know that knowledge is contained instead, I can tell you that you can know, you can understand and be aware through a combination of experience, presuppositions, observation, familiarity, inquiry, experimentation, axioms and similar etc, that experiences, can have further testing and resulting outcomes. Like affirming, confirming, negation, rejection, inaccurate or flawed conclusions, assumptions, presuppositions and so on. 

To put it another way, when you go to a supermarket, do you buy food? Or are you purchasing access to food? Are you buying the consent to take the food from the supermarket? Are you buying the rights to metaphysical concept of the abstract idea of food? Did you really buy food? When its just sitting in your kitchen? Do you know in absolute ways that its definitely certainly food, and if you are wrong the Universe will cease to exist? Or is it probably food, but also possibly, occasionally, like a box of cereal you brought was actually just a packet of paper matching the overall assumed weight and consistency of what you thought would be cereal. Thus to your eternal, you made an incorrect error about its true nature. 

What about my explanation above sounds magical to you? 

Who said or implied the sole act of purchase is sufficient requirement to attain knowledge? 

Do you not have a base of knowledge as a general default? Or do you know have knowledge as acquired through other means beyond just reading? (I wouldn't normally ask the later, but you stated that you only gain knowledge via the tedious process of reading). Of course merely buying a book by itself is insufficient, who is saying otherwise? Also, thats a pretty standard idea, as far as learning from an author, its a bit more complicated than that, especially in scenarios where authors are writing in a field with more to understand, discover and be aware of, and if you already have understanding and knowledge on the subject. Knowledge is broad. People can be more knowledgable than an author but still find their books beneficial for expanding their knowledge, and peoples own knowledge can expand and refine, even if they are the author as well, reading their own materials. There can be more processes and interactions going on than just transference of data. Depends on various variables. 

Again I ask, are you being sincere, or are you just bored and looking to be a devils advocate on a subject you made assumptions/misunderstandings over (the idea or claim of just buying a book equates to attaining knowledge vs a natural step or process of potentially acquiring knowledge, or can versus will. Buying a book will give knowledge, versus buying a book can give knowledge).

I ask, because I sincerely enjoy conversations like this, but its also going a bit off topic, and I am skeptical of your intentions (but I also apologise in advance if you are being sincere and legitimately good faith over conversations of knowledge and communication.) Cheers. 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

7 hours ago, -Krism- said:

Stop it, you're wrong, admit it ffs

New players that buy the Pay2Skip pack won't magically know everything & learn all the skills of the game

This is like people who think buying a better mouse, keyboard, & chair will increase their skill in PvP games, that's just not how it works

 

Stop what exactly? What exactly am I wrong about? Do you even know my position? Also whats with the random hostility (at least to my perception). Its cool, its just views, ideas and opinions about Warframe. No need for such frustrations. 

Knowing knowledge and explaining it, isn't a rejection of how you feel about this topic. Was that even your original argument or point made? Or did you just compile it? 

Are you the arbiter of who is right or wrong? If you disagree why try to silence someone because you think differently? (Not saying that you are being serious about that necessarily, more a criticism of the phrasing).

I think its a flawed position, to think knowledge can't be brought and if you feel strongly about the topic the way you do, you want good arguments, not arguments that can be critiqued so easily. I didn't tell you to "shut up your wrong FFS" did I? In a friendly, chill way, I explaining my position with the idea of reciprocity being allowed. 

Where did this idea of "magic" learning get introduced? All players were new once, there are many different strictly non magical ways, of learning, adjusting, acquiring skill, knowledge, familiarity, in order to navigate through a set of challenges. There are pros and cons attached. They can be different depending on the variables. No "magic" here, nor am I saying new players will magically know. I don't write so much in my paragraphs for my own health. I even explained a bit why I am personally not just talking about "new players" but lapsed players, stalled players and players not interested in story. Nor did I take a "side" either, I went into the pros and cons. 

So why are you ascribing a position to me, that I don't have? 

This is more like when people don't actually try to understand another persons points, and just inserts their own general vague reasoning as to what they think the other means, then addresses that instead. Finally, you should stop kicking one legged puppies. They are cute and defenceless. Thats your entire argument and point right? Well you should stop! Kicking puppies is wrong Krism! (See what I mean? This is a joke by the way, if that wasn't clear, I obviously think you are alright and cool, and wouldn't hurt another animal, but your argument here isn't the best. Specifically because you haven't actually understood my position well enough to even describe it, which identifying it, is required as far as addressing it.)

Cheers. (I also put the most relevant part of this subject, as I think pertains to being most on topic, in italics, if that helps.)

[-Krism-]

2 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Stop what exactly? What exactly am I wrong about?

I..., just explained that

I won't read your paragraph if you can't understand my three lines

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

4 minutes ago, -Krism- said:

I..., just explained that

I won't read your paragraph if you can't understand my three lines

 

I went on to demonstrate why I asked such a question. I explained why your explanation was flawed, and rhetoric was unnecessary. 

Not every online interaction needs to be a combative hostile experience you know? With accusations like "well if you didn't understand"... If you do not wish to read a persons points, because you rather claim they lack understanding perhaps just don't read any of their points, or reply at all. Not wanting to read a lot is totally fine, and I understand I write a lot. Totally fair. 

So what makes you think I didn't understand your three lines?

[-Krism-]

Well, I don't want my own thread locked for such a stupid misunderstanding, so let's stop there

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

8 minutes ago, -Krism- said:

Well, I don't want my own thread locked for such a stupid misunderstanding, so let's stop there

 

Thats totally cool and fine by me. If you change your mind, I'll be here.

Hope you enjoy your day! Cheers! 

[(PSN)FirmBizkit]

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

When you sound like you are reciting wikipedia, maybe actually read the wikipedia site that you recite. The same site that brings up Warframe as a specific influental game to the looter shooter sub genre. Also procedurally generate loot doesnt only refer to that the stats are RNG, it refers to a roll being made when you kill a mob regarding if something drops or not. Like running Midgets or Trees over and over in BL2 in hopes to get their specific drops to even drop, while the game also has the stat RNG layer when something drops. Or SW2 monster farming in general to get the right upgrades while the weapons in the game are predefined and guaranteed to obtain from certain places and activities.

I've never played Runescape. If the gear progression is based around farming loot with RNG drop rates from specific places then yes it is very much a looter. The moment RNG gets involved in the itemization and promotes re-running a certain encounter for either better rolls on guanranteed drops or a chance for a specific item to drop at all it is effectively a looter. WF has blueprints/components for specific items both from bosses and trash, WF has RNG drop rates for mods from specific mobs, bosses, puzzles etc, WF has RNG based stat loot in Rivens, RJ components and nemesis weapons. We chase loot, that is pretty much the core of WF, we also use third person shooter gunplay, it is the very definition of looter shooter.

It is hard to like something that is 100% unrelated to the game. What defines an MMO has nothing to do with what you think, since it isnt mutually exclusive to what is discussed. The 3 major keypoints that define if a game is an MMO or not are the following.

1. Server structure. There to allow a massively multiplayer interaction between players. WF allows for up to uhm a whooping 8 players (when trials exsisted) to interact at the same time. Path of Exile which runs on dedicated servers does not even achieve this, since it is still limited to 4 player groups while also missing the next two following keypoints.

2. A persistant world which is possible due to point 1 being achieved. WF has no persistance in the world. When players exit an instance that instance dies, while in an MMO it continues on no matter if there are 100 or 0 players currently in it. The exception is often dungeons, but even those can live on after exit if instanced. Some games dont even use instances for dungeons, so they live on infinitely.

3. Sporadic unplanned player to player interaction. Something that does not exsist in WF either. You will not run around in the world and accidentally bump into another player. You must be open to a public group and then either end up as client or host.

These points are what seperates MOs from MMOs, this is what makes WF, Martyr, Outriders, PoE, Shadow Warrior 2 and Borderlands arpg/looter shooter MOs and a game similar to them like Marvel Heroes (R.I.P) an MMO(ARPG). What other systems they have incommon or not doesnt matter on wether or not they are MMOs.

Hah. I’ll give you that. I did consult the Wiki but mostly to make sure I was using the proper language.

You raise some good points and I can’t really disagree with it. I think we do have to agree though that it’s pretty unique and fits a bunch of different categories.

[SneakyErvin]

14 hours ago, (PSN)FirmBizkit said:

Hah. I’ll give you that. I did consult the Wiki but mostly to make sure I was using the proper language.

You raise some good points and I can’t really disagree with it. I think we do have to agree though that it’s pretty unique and fits a bunch of different categories.

Oh I definently agree that WF is unique and covers many categories.

[Venus-Venera]

Am 29.10.2023 um 01:11 schrieb (XBOX)Hellsteeth30:

I mentioned it's kind of a disservice to the Devs who designed, built and wrote the content.  Bit of an FU to them if John Newberry just skips it.

Despite the consensus of New War in particular being a bit iffy, it was very well presented.  Just it's 5-6 hour wall you have to climb to get back to Warframe.

Second Dream is considered a must see.

I personally like a frame as to why I'm doing what I'm doing in universe.  Plus I feel I earned my spot doing most of the stuff everybody else has done.

 

There are definitely things that everyone likes. Tastes are very different and constantly changing.
but when I compare the story or stories with other (often very old) games, the whole thing seems VERY sad. You have to be able to tell the story and the graphics are not important. But here I see someone trying to do some sequences that simply "have to be done because the boss/team leather wants it to"?! So absolutely loveless and careless and the whole thing seems like 10s tiktok videos outside of China...

So as a loot game it's ok... but telling stories... better not! And I haven't watched a single video sequence from New War... I have MUCH BETTER alternatives on the computer for single player. The devs really worked up a sweat when developing like smart Japanese people do with first-class anime!

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

On 2023-10-28 at 5:29 PM, -Krism- said:

To the moderators:

The moderators do not merge threads for any reason other than to hide negative feedback in the giant haystack of replies in the megathreads.  It's not just to "keep things neat."  The most honest and obvious and useful feedback the devs could get is visiting the forums and seeing a wall of threads that are all complaints on the same thing.  If those threads are all merged neatly into a mega thread it just looks like a handful of complaints, and isn't nearly as impactful.  I'm honestly shocked that this thread has lasted by itself as long as it has.