We need to start pushing Pablo harder about stat sticks (respectfully, of course)

[Lord_Drod]

He doesn't even believe his own comments.  He mains Saryn 42.8% of the time and has played Atlas 0.7%.

[Traumtulpe]

6 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Yes, because there's absolutely only ever 20 enemies in a Survival mission that all spawn in the same place.

And Spores totally only scales up over 2 hours instead of 2 minutes because the damage scaling absolutely isn't affected by both Strength and the number of spores that are active so that it definitely can't scale at hundreds or even more than a thousand per second once you're in an enemy dense area.

And that's where I stopped reading. Dude, if you know *nothing* about Saryn how about you just don't get involved in a discussion about her? Spores scale at a maximum of 14 damage per second before strength. That's the cap before strength, so it'll be 28 with 200% strength. You have clearly never ever even played Saryn.

[Sojufueled]

I dislike how stat sticks make you run around with bad melees, but without significantly changing all the affected abilities, it's certain to make all the affected frames much worse. If they're willing to completely retool those abilities, then by all means change it. If they aren't, it's best to leave them alone.

[Traumtulpe]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

Atlas requires far more effort and time investment just to reach semi-comparable damage in a much smaller area. You have constant upkeep costs to juggle and all Saryn has to do is ... play the game normally. Then, if Saryn feels like juggling, she can easily outpace 99% of the roster because her scaling is still absurd. Without needing a lot of specific things to help her work faster.

This is specifically a response to a person who knows nothing about Saryn (nor Atlas, it seems), who claimed both Landslide and Spores deal 200k damage (both of which are completely false).

Also, Landslide being able to scale with Arcanes, mods, and crit, is precisely why it is strong - Spores don't scale with any of that.

In a mission you'd use Arcane Avenger for permanent uptime on crit (it procs while invincible from Landslide). If you want status, use an Incarnon weapon, it gives your Landslide easily 162% status.

[Traumtulpe]

11 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I definitely haven't taken Saryn to multiple-hour Survival runs to test the reworks in turn to Spores, the Corrosive status effect, and the enemy Armour Scaling changes that were applied over time, so absolutely cannot attest directly to its effectiveness at killing enemies effortlessly as long as you remember to shoot those enemies with Toxic Lash active.

Yeah, you clearly haven't if you think that Spores scale at a rate of >1000 per second. How can you not be embarrassed telling straight up lies like that? I have by the way, here's proof:

As you can see I have capped Spores out at 100k. Took about 1.5 hours from the last time I accidentally walked into a nully bubble. Oh, and Spores stopped doing *anything* a long time ago at that point, as the enemies still have >99% damage reduction after Corrosive procs, and the Glaive can't benefit from Condition Overload. I could be playing an unmodded Inaros at that point (keeping him alive with Protective Sling), and I would be no better and no worse at killing stuff.

[SneakyErvin]

22 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I meant my comments highlighting changes to ability stats or allowing weapon modding it in my first post in this thread.

This part specifically:

Which is the same post calling out Khora players even though they havent been particularly vocal prior to your post. And the post is also fully about stat sticks after you're finished calling out the Khora players, yet you find it odd that I drew the conclussion that the "abuse"you refer to was about the use of stat sticks?

22 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I guess i was not clear about what i meant if that is your inference. When it comes to stat sticks it usually invites Khora players , like bees to unpollinated flowers, and those that abuse her tend to be the most vocal and defensive about any changes and would probably be the majority. It was more about what i expect the discussion to be driven by than anything else.

I do admit it has been relatively civil so far. And my original assumption has been rather off regarding the same (though it is still vocal in certain instances and defensive for completely different things).

So in short you didnt read the posts prior to posting yours and decided to just assume.

22 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

ecause you started with the questioning of the term abuse and did not try to get the context in which the original statement was made. My reverts were mostly related to what is termed as abuse after that. Which i still stand by ,but now in hindsight the confusion could probably have been avoided.

And your original context was all about stat sticks in relation to calling out some "abuse". Kinda hard to interpret it as being about anything but stat sticks at that point. Nothing in your post indicates you talk about anything else, and when it follows calling out abuse (without going into detail what you refer to) one likely assumes it is in reference to what you continue to talk about in the same post.

22 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

This is a fair admonishment , there are far fewer of those than i expected after the first few posts. and the discussion is actually fairly balanced out (with some outliers) .

So you still havent actually read the posts. There are practically no posts referencing Khora on the first page aside from an example in a screenshot. Which is more there to show the damage when not using a stat stick on frames that rely on it in general. Which I must say is done properly, since the strongest baseline skill is used in that example, which means other pseudo-exalteds would be even worse of in such a scenario. So not really a Khora-protective-behavior-wha-wha post even.

[SneakyErvin]

23 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

You're being ridiculous, acting as if Atlas can't have more than 150% range while at the same time assuming >200% range on Saryn (because her Spores are not passive as you say with insufficient range).

Your claim that you never use Slash procs from weapons just as much. So you never use Hunter Munitions? This only proves further that you have no clue what you are doing/talking about.

There is no use arguing with you if you are going to make the most ridiculous and unrealistic assumtions, just for the sake of arguing.

No I'm saying different frames build for different stats and that different skills have different mechanics. Atlas will never be able to wipe maps without continous use of his #1, which in the end really just replaces a weapon. There is no reason to build a Saryn without sufficient range, so spores are more or less passive after they've been applied aslong as you react fast enough to apply things that allow them to spread, which isnt hard considering the skill that does so has no LoS requirement, nor does the spores.

I dont use slash, or more accurately I dont build with slash in mind, since it is utterly pointless outside of running level cap. Which the game itself isnt planned to be balanced around in the first place. It is hard to get to a point in WF where utilizing slash isnt pointless. And in the few places where there is a point to it, I just run Garuda since she is most suited for those activites eitherway. Because I sure as hell hope you arent implying you have to rely on HM or slash in general for regular SP content, such as a couple of hours in endless. Viral+Heat is more than enough for that, or in a case like Hydroid where you can grab corrosive and viral easily from other sources, gas or pure heat does a wonderful job at wiping enemies.

[Birdframe_Prime]

On 11/29/2023 at 8:25 AM, Traumtulpe said:

As you can see I have capped Spores out at 100k.

And I can also see, quite clearly, level cap enemies die from that damage out of your line of sight with no other primers on them.

This seems like, even with this demonstration, it's still not about the damage you deal, it's how you deal it.

::Edit::

Okay, me being a smartbutt aside. I do want to be honest with you about this.

Traum, I’ve known you on these Forums for years. Every time somebody has made a stupid statement about a frame you know about, you prove them wrong. Often with video evidence. You are also exactly the kind of person that, if I were to say something not only blatantly wrong (it’s right there on the wiki, and you know I use it because of other conversations we’ve had), but if I also say it in a sarcastic way as if it’s obvious, you would prove me wrong.

And to do that, if goaded, you would go to level cap with Saryn to show me that the wiki is correct.

So I have to apologise for annoying you so much that you would do that.

You did, however, prove the actual point I was making about this whole thing.

To whit; Saryn’s Spores don’t do all that much damage. Compared to Atlas Landslide, the numbers are low. And despite that it can kill enemies at level cap. That 100k damage in the form of Corrosive plus the Status, was doing work all the way through level 9999. It took you an hour and a half (time that I’m sorry I made you waste), and yet it still killed things. Out of line of sight, before you even looked at them.

Compare that to the same time you would have spent with Atlas. Pressing 1 over and over, chaining between enemies, keeping the innate multiplier up. Keeping the combo counter up. Only ever taking on the enemy right in front of you, and requiring the primers and multipliers for each enemy in turn.

Out of the two, which would you rather have been doing?

That was the point. It’s not about the damage you deal, it’s all about how you’re dealing it.

And Atlas deals his damage poorly compared to Saryn.

He shouldn’t need to. He should have options to go without a stat stick, to apply all that potential damage to enemies effectively. Without the janky parts.

I know this is a real #$&(% move by me, but I needed someone to prove it. Someone to show what I was talking about.

And because you were the best candidate, the most effective player in this thread, you were perfect to do that.

Again, I’m sorry I annoyed you so much. I did know what I said was wrong before I said it. The Wiki is right there.

But thank you for being the player that will put in the effort, even out of spite. I mean that. And I hope we can have some more… amicable conversations later.

I’m glad you’re here to give real results to people.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Birdframe_Prime