[Critique] Banshee: Combing her 1st and 4th into one; Suggesting a new 4th ability "Destabilize"

[FoxFX]

This feedback is given by a PC-only player.

 

 

THE POSITIVE FEEDBACK ON BANSHEE

 

Overall

1. Sports one of the most unique abilities to created weak points on enemies to deal more damage
2. Has one of the unique utilities suppressing sounds while locking down special abilities of enemy units.

Passive

1. A decent passive among the ranks

Sonic Boom

1. An Augment that strips enemy armor while the base ability knocks down enemies as a quick sustainability option

Sonar

1. Helps allies detects enemies and creates new weak points to deal some MASSIVE damage

Silence

1. Noise Reduction causes some crowd control, but the real gift comes with it's ability to lock down the special abilities of enemies

 

THE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK ON BANSHEE

Overall

1. She does lack in the defensive category which will require careful execution to avoid damage, but that is a trade-off for the huge damage potential she can offer

Sonic Boom

1. Low-ranged and is a two-handed casting ability

Sonar

1. Unless you have the augment, you will require to recast it more frequently to get the most out of it. A trade-off since constant casting of this ability exposes more areas

Silence

1. Many have requested this ability to be re-castable which I understand why. However with the aura-gimmick, low-range builds could take advantage of its stun especially for Savage Silence.

Sound Quake

1. Low damage which quickly falls off
2. Has high energy cost for the crowd control it offers
3. The Augment does not merit enough for what it offers
4. Serves a similar function to Sonic Boom, but with a larger scale

 

 

SUGGESTION #1: MERGE SOUND QUAKE INTO SONIC BOOM

The following suggestion is a similar rework that was done to the likes of Excalibur and Zephyr in past reworks. One of their abilities merged with their 1st abilities giving them more room to add a new and better option.

1. Increase the range and reduce the cone of Sonic Boom to 25-30 m away, 
2. Reduce the cone of Sonic Boom to 90 degree cone
3. Tapping Sonic Boom makes the conical attack, but HOLDING down the ability makes a Sound Quake (the augmented- variant with less range and scale)
   1. Radius of the Sound Quake to 20 m
4. Staggers enemies for 200 Impact damage for both (Sonic Boom will knockdown, Sound Quake will stagger)
5. Tapping 1st ability becomes a 1-hand cast, but holding the ability is a 2-hand cast
6. Augment remains as is
7. Animation: Make Banshee actually scream a sonic boom in front of her instead of slamming down the floor

 

SUGGESTION #2: NEW 4TH ABILITY: [DESTABILIZE]

A suggested new 4th and flashy ability that would match with the whole mythos of a banshee while keeping her vibration/sound gimmick. Offers a defensive bonus and crowd control.

 

ABILITY 4: DESTABILIZE  Banshee utilizes the full extent of her sonic powers vibrating her body the point she can vibrate through enemies and their attacks. A ghost/banshee-like state.

1. In this that, Banshee is invulnerable to damage and can run through enemies
2. Each enemy that Banshee goes through are hit with high Blast Damage (bonus damage for enemies under Sonar) with 600% status chance and the following:
   1. Enemies hit have their weapons temporarily jammed
   2. Robotic/Machinery enemies are disabled temporarily
3. Each enemy hit offers Banshee an extended duration +X seconds of XX% Damage Reduction
4. Options on how this is activated:
   1. A dash-like ability that can be steered toward the reticle
   2. A non-controllable dash with high area range
5. Augment [Vicious Oscillation]: Enemies hit by Destabilize are also hit with Slash proc at 100% chance.

 

 

THOUGHTS ON SONAR AND SILENCE

I've had conversation with players that wanted how Sonar and Silence activates to be switched. Meaning that Sonar does not become recastable, but Silence does. Where Sonar would pulse like an actual sonar and follow Banshee like an aura while Silence can be recasted allowing free stun and having some indicator showing who are the silenced enemies.

Honestly, I feel that right now, with the way Banshee's Resonance augment and Savage Silence augment, that kind of an idea would not truly work out to well right now. They are fine in what they offer Banshee and team mates right now. Although the sonar-like behavior would be an welcoming idea if more warm up to it.

 

Thoughts on the idea of merging Sound Quake into Sonic Boom?

Thoughts on the "vibrating body" suggestion which was originally to make Banshee more "banshee-like" while maintaining her sound/vibration gimmick?

 

[rawr1254]

28 minutes ago, FoxFX said:

1. In this that, Banshee is invulnerable to damage and can run through enemies

1. Each enemy hit offers Banshee an extended duration +X seconds of XX% Damage Reduction

Honestly considering her extremely low armor I think DR wouldnt really do much for her. Dodge chance would probably be a lot better. Also it doesnt make sense to have DR during it if your invulnerable, Im assuming you mean you get that buff at the end of the casts duration?

 

And personally for the sake of Sound quake I always felt instead of having a chance at hitting an enemy sonar weak point itd guarantee to hit one. And with an ability name like Destabilize I was think itd be more like an ability that causes blast damage/procs to strip enemy armor. That way in theory if you cast sound quake itd strip armor on the cast.

 

So if your destabilize kept the high status chance and instead just applied it as a whole to her kit and/or weapons, in theory so long as the status chance isnt capped then with enough str you should be able to strip enemy armor in 1 tick of damage so long as it gives 10 blast procs(assuming thatd be a full strip). So without the augment for quake youd jsut wait for 2 ticks of damage and the enemies should be taking decent damage espeically when combined with sonar provided we let quake guarantee a hit on a weak point.  this would also pair well with her even more cause if any survive theyd have a reduced accuracy due to the max stacks of blast. She needs dodge/accuracy reductions more than DR by far.

 

But other than that 100% on board to merging the two abilities. But also to that Im assuming we'd merge the two augments similar to Vaubans vortex? Or are we keeping them separate?

Edited December 24, 2023 by rawr1254

[FoxFX]

11 minutes ago, rawr1254 said:

But other than that 100% on board to merging the two abilities. But also to that Im assuming we'd merge the two augments similar to Vaubans vortex? Or are we keeping them separate?

Considering Sonic Boom's Augment is an Armor Reduction ability already, we will keep with that and change the 4th's Augment for Destabilize.

[Raarsi]

13 hours ago, FoxFX said:

ABILITY 4: DESTABILIZE  Banshee utilizes the full extent of her sonic powers vibrating her body the point she can vibrate through enemies and their attacks. A ghost/banshee-like state.

This does seem like a bit of a thematic stretch.  I'd personally opt for an ability called Scream that would instead stun enemies for a second or two when they come into a particular range of her and then have their accuracy lowered by 90% or so.  Not only would that be more thematic for a frame named after something known for screaming, but it would also provide both defense for her as well as defensive support for allies and a little bit of CC as the cherry on top.

[FoxFX]

On 2023-12-24 at 9:28 AM, Raarsi said:

This does seem like a bit of a thematic stretch.  I'd personally opt for an ability called Scream that would instead stun enemies for a second or two when they come into a particular range of her and then have their accuracy lowered by 90% or so.  Not only would that be more thematic for a frame named after something known for screaming, but it would also provide both defense for her as well as defensive support for allies and a little bit of CC as the cherry on top.

I would've done so to, but the thing I see is this:

Sonic Boom and Sound Quake are already damage+Stun abilities. The major difference between them is one is cheaper and has an Augment that strips armor.

A defensive option I would've suggested is to have Banshee's Sonar offer her Shield Regen per enemy detected, but Sonar is already bloated with the whole damage vulnerability perk.

[(PSN)Hsinimod]

This is a great thematic idea about the mythos of Banshees AND how sound works!  Banshees are associated with ghostly phasing abilities and sound travels through objects.  Anyone that knows basic science and myth would see how thematic and accurate this idea is!

The name is crap though! 

Oscillation should be the name of the ability.  

Reverberation should be the Augment.  Or Vicious Reverberation.  Or Resonance, Vicious Resonance. 

I think instead of Slash, it should target weaknesses.  Similarly to Baruuk and Revenant having weakness targeting options.  Sound Resonance can harmonize to physically shatter objects in real life.

4 does the vibrating thing you mentioned for defense to phase through damage, and destabilizes the enemy with structural damage similar to how sound can shatter objects.  

Earthquakes are technically soundwaves of such force and magnitude they shake the ground, but thematically for Banshee it doesn't make sense why she'd use a power to shake the ground of the enemy instead of directly shaking the enemy...  if I had vibrational powers to create harmonic frequencies of my enemies, I'd shatter their armor and bones.  I wouldn't bother with shaking space station floors...  

If 1 and 4 are combined, Sonic Scream should be the name and the animation changed to a simple scream.  

If wanting four "S" themed abilities:

Sonic Scream

Sonar

Silence

Static Oscillation 

[FoxFX]

On 2023-12-26 at 1:15 PM, (PSN)Hsinimod said:

This is a great thematic idea about the mythos of Banshees AND how sound works!  Banshees are associated with ghostly phasing abilities and sound travels through objects.  Anyone that knows basic science and myth would see how thematic and accurate this idea is!

The name is crap though! 

Oscillation should be the name of the ability.  

Reverberation should be the Augment.  Or Vicious Reverberation.  Or Resonance, Vicious Resonance. 

I think instead of Slash, it should target weaknesses.  Similarly to Baruuk and Revenant having weakness targeting options.  Sound Resonance can harmonize to physically shatter objects in real life.

4 does the vibrating thing you mentioned for defense to phase through damage, and destabilizes the enemy with structural damage similar to how sound can shatter objects.  

Earthquakes are technically soundwaves of such force and magnitude they shake the ground, but thematically for Banshee it doesn't make sense why she'd use a power to shake the ground of the enemy instead of directly shaking the enemy...  if I had vibrational powers to create harmonic frequencies of my enemies, I'd shatter their armor and bones.  I wouldn't bother with shaking space station floors...  

If 1 and 4 are combined, Sonic Scream should be the name and the animation changed to a simple scream.  

If wanting four "S" themed abilities:

Sonic Scream

Sonar

Silence

Static Oscillation 

My naming senses are a swing and miss...

I've also been thinking about switching over the abilities so that "Sonic Scream" is the 4th and "Statis Oscillation" being the 1st. In all honesty, the merged abilities can be either slot as long as the scale of them makes sense.

[Sojufueled]

Banshee's 4 suffers from the Hydroid puddle problem. The game designers don't want it to work the only way you would want it to to actually use it. Since the fundamental function is contrary to the design of the game, it should be shortlisted for a change.

[FoxFX]

On 2024-01-03 at 1:55 AM, Sojufueled said:

Banshee's 4 suffers from the Hydroid puddle problem. The game designers don't want it to work the only way you would want it to to actually use it. Since the fundamental function is contrary to the design of the game, it should be shortlisted for a change.

Another true point. Any thoughts on having its augmented form to be combined with Sonic Boom (Banshee's 1st)? The thought was to have that ability and Sound Quake (Banshee's 4th) combined into one. Much like how Zephyr's 1st and past 2nd were combined.

[FoxFX]

Along with the Nyx critique, I might be tackling Limbo a bit but with a critique on his playstyle and his current abilities.

[Venefik]

 I love the idea of making her 1st change to a screaming animation and sfx. I could see that not being everyone’s favorite idea, but it would be very fitting considering her name. I also feel like a knockdown is better than a ragdoll+repulse for the general use, but I have to say I’ve had uses for it’s goofy push back effect before lol. (Maybe a tap for knockdown and hold for ragdoll+push back?)

 I also like the concept of a sound based “banshee’s veil”, but I struggle to imagine what it’s effects would be.

[aminisi]

I'm a avid Banshee user. My usage rate exceeds 70%.

I don't want her to get reworked. That's because she's already overpowered.

If Banshee gets reworked, sooner or later her incredibly rare and powerful damage multiplier that's unique among all games will get nerfed.

What she needs is not a rework, but let it slide.

Edited March 8 by aminisi