You have altered the deal DE. I just pray you don't alter it any further.

[uberfu]

On 2023-12-25 at 6:47 PM, Corvid said:

It was originally pitched to the playerbase purely as a way to increase the base difficulty of missions so players could feel like their overpowered gear was useful for something, with no additional benefits. No exclusive rewards, no drop modifiers, just a way to start at a higher level so players wouldn't need to go on long endurance runs to feel tested.

And in my humble opinion, it should have stayed that way. Putting rewards behind it was only ever going to breed resentment, and having gameplay content gated behind it means DE can't adjust it to account for the increases in power that we've gone through since its addition (level cap runs, anyone?), so it no longer serves as a "challenge mode" for the part of the playerbase that it was originally supposed to satisfy.

It was also implented before things like Shards and incarnons to add to power creep. I'm also betting that things like Open worlds (as much as they are POE Vallis et al) were not part of the OG WF charter - neither was hoverboards - Pets - the Mod sets like Galvanized and Amalgam and Parazon and Archon Mods - Railjack .... game changes post New War playthrough.

So you're complaining about CHANGE in a long standing online video game. If you want some pure vanilla WF that is unchanged after over a decade go dig up a copy of DarkSector and enjoy.

[Turboameeba]

I personally think Steel Path should become the new normal. It is the first point of the game where kills start to feel like something finally, and theres more than 3 enemeis in the missions. People run mostly Steel Path purely for reasons like fun, and it feeling like something. It does not provide any kind of challenge. It just feels better to play. Thats it.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

10 minutes ago, Turboameeba said:

I personally think Steel Path should become the new normal. It is the first point of the game where kills start to feel like something finally, and theres more than 3 enemeis in the missions. People run mostly Steel Path purely for reasons like fun, and it feeling like something. It does not provide any kind of challenge. It just feels better to play. Thats it.

This is a purely subjective opinion and clearly doesn't match my experience with it... (I also don't play this game for "any kind of challenge" - and in my experience, it does slow down killing to the point that in survival missions, I can't keep up life support, solo, without playing on Necros, as a point of reference - this makes the game feel worse to play) so... keeping Steel Path optional and simply catering to different desired play experiences between people running the same missions... seems fine to me.

Not directed at you exactly, but the thread and topic in general:

The issue here is how they're starting to balance around the Steel Path and they're making it a more efficient mode to play to earn rewards... changing it from its original intent and place in the game, creating a new baseline - because the game is centered around collecting stuff, and the most efficient method will be the preferred method, thus the spread of players in available open matches will skew higher into the steel path region over time or breed resentment with those who find their builds being narrowed into only those that work comfortably for them on the steel path, limiting their options, and potentially forcing them to waste things like forma, changing builds.

I don't care if someone can clear Steel Path with the most basic junk, that's not the experience of the majority of players in that content.

There are ramifications to the base-lining of the Steel Path that are starting to ripple out from the current implementation... it's just taking a while for them to be noticed by the majority.

[Corvid]

7 hours ago, uberfu said:

So you're complaining about CHANGE in a long standing online video game.

Incorrect. Change in general is something I'm fine with, and I'm happy for DE to experiment with whatever mechanics they find interesting, regardless of whether they fit into some people's narrow definition of what Warframe is "supposed" to be.

Archwing, Railjack, Kahl, Duviri. I have been supportive of all of these additions, and I'm always excited to see what new directions DE are going to push. In fact, I'm actually hoping that 1999's surrounding systems (customisation, progression, etc) will be more distinct than just the base arsenal/mod system with a new coat of paint.

My problem is that the changes I described ended up hampering the Steel Path's ability to satisfy the role it was meant to serve, for the reasons I already provided.

Edited January 7 by Corvid

[SneakyErvin]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

This is a purely subjective opinion and clearly doesn't match my experience with it... (I also don't play this game for "any kind of challenge" - and in my experience, it does slow down killing to the point that in survival missions, I can't keep up life support, solo, without playing on Necros, as a point of reference - this makes the game feel worse to play) so... keeping Steel Path optional and simply catering to different desired play experiences between people running the same missions... seems fine to me.

Not directed at you exactly, but the thread and topic in general:

The issue here is how they're starting to balance around the Steel Path and they're making it a more efficient mode to play to earn rewards... changing it from its original intent and place in the game, creating a new baseline - because the game is centered around collecting stuff, and the most efficient method will be the preferred method, thus the spread of players in available open matches will skew higher into the steel path region over time or breed resentment with those who find their builds being narrowed into only those that work comfortably for them on the steel path, limiting their options, and potentially forcing them to waste things like forma, changing builds.

I don't care if someone can clear Steel Path with the most basic junk, that's not the experience of the majority of players in that content.

There are ramifications to the base-lining of the Steel Path that are starting to ripple out from the current implementation... it's just taking a while for them to be noticed by the majority.

There are two things you can do to change your life support for survival. Check your kills per minute in a run, you should have around 100 kills per minute to keep it steady and comfortable regarding life support in SP. Another thing, try a different node, since some of them are wonky regarding life support even at high KPM. Palus can even  result in different quantities of life support between runs. You should be able to tweak your build to achieve 100 KPM, it doesnt take much. Most of my builds sit around 100-120 enjoying what I want, I also have some other builds that sit near 200, with arguably less effort going into it aswell. I can barely keep up with the kill speed of my weapon in one of the builds, when it gets rolling it kills before I have a chance to even hit the enemies. I'm quite literally chasing clouds at that point.

I gotta say the initial intent of SP was several times worse than it is now when it comes to rewards, efficiency and so on for the people that dont really wanna do it and those that want to just play whatever builds they enjoy. There was practically no wiggle room during the initial intended iteration of SP, it was actually far more limited and far less rewarding. Just look at Steel Essence. The initial release required you to stay for atleast 45 minutes before it started to drop Essence somewhat properly, it also required you massive KPM so Eximus units could spawn as often as possible to drop the Essence. Compared to now when essence drops in guaranteed quantities at set intervals that can be slightly improved though higher KPM, they also drop fromt he very beginning of missions, so it doesnt matter if you stay for a single rotation or go for hours, you end up getting roughly the same amount per minute spent on SP. Then ontop of that, an unboosted run under the current system rewards as much essence per minute as an old boosted+smeeta run did, if you stayed for atleast around 90 minutes and used one out of the very limited few frames that provided the needed KPM.

Right now you can farm SP with anything since you dont need a KPM higher than to sustain life support, which also includes KPM so low that you survive on life support drops plus towers when needed, which is far far far below 100 KPM since that number only applies if you wanna avoid touching any life support tower.

[TioMegaManX]

I don't wanna wear these clown shoes! --wait, I am using Vauban, carry on.

[ImTeijirr]

I remember Rebecca saying SP is opionnal when it first came out. I always thought it was a bit unnatural for SP not to be the end game. Imo SP was one of the best concept DE did, even if it is really simple it's so fun to play against powerful ennemies when you're OP yourself.

With a warframe that can survive, good weapons and mods SP really isn't hard (except solo arbitration) imo, and it's way more fun that OSing everything as it gets old very fast for me. Having a good reason to theorycraft and fully optimize your frames/mods is so good.