Quick Thinking/rage Combo

[BrainInvader]

Here it is:

Lol, dat perma-tank.

So much for the non-infinity tank....

[birdei]

DE. Otherwise I don't care if they're mad. Tell them to HTFU I guess.

 

you can tell people whatever you what, that won't stop them from blaming you for ruining a good thing.

[Legion-Shields]

you can tell people whatever you what, that won't stop them from blaming you for ruining a good thing.

is it truly a good thing though? That is the question.

[Legion-Shields]

Bump

[Keltik0ne]

I suspect that on the day I finally get Quick Thinking to try it out, DE will nerf it.

 

 

Also, Hell may just freeze over.

[henrylwit]

I believe they going to nerf it. Just about time, so enjoy it as long you can. 

[Blowfist]

Quick Thinking + Rage + Reflex guard + Reflection + Vitality

Fantastic melee build.

[fatpig84]

I'm just gathering opinions on it. I suspected people would want it nerfed but i'm glad to see that's not the case.

 

 

Thanks to you it would be nerfed.

Remember Rage used to give energy during Vampire mode too Q_Q

[Eurhetemec]

I'm just gathering opinions on it. I suspected people would want it nerfed but i'm glad to see that's not the case.

 

I think that's pretty clearly because it's rare enough that it's limited to a small elite of players, who are happy to exploit it, and don't really interact with people who aren't part of that elite.

 

If it starts to become more common (as seems likely given that it will continue to drop and trading prices will eventually go down), then I think it may be exposed to rather more scrutiny, and I don't think that scrutiny is going to do it any favours, because it's basically kind of stupid, a cheap trick (well, not in the financial sense!) that prevents death even when one has screwed up more or less completely, and does so many times (rather than, say once or twice a mission).

 

Obviously, despite all this "well it prevents you using energy abilities!", it's rather strong, which is why people are so attached to it.

 

So I would expect that it will get nerfed, and people will cry and moan and say that they're quitting and so on, and that build diversity has been destroyed - which is the same thing that happens in every game - WoW, ME3 MP, whatever - whenever an exploitative build gets nerfed after it's been around more than a week or two. Everyone claims it's the end of the world and there's no build diversity any more, when what they actually mean is "Grrrrr, you broke my cheap build!". I've been guilty of it before.

 

The only way it won't get nerfed is if you can get a similar-but-more-limited effect with some other mod - say, for example, there was some kind of mod which let you res yourself X times/mission (probably a Corrupted mod with a significant downside) - then this might seem rather less attractive as a combo, and might be a more honest kind of diversity.

 

As a side-note, nothing is truly ever balanced by merely being rare - if something is unbalanced, it's unbalanced. What being rare means, though, is that it may escape being nerfed because it is so small of an issue in actual day-to-day play. If this stays rare, it may stay unnerfed, but I suspect it becomes more common every day - and especially after trading - I would guess there has been a several hundred percent increase in the number of people using this combo since then.

[Methanoid]

both mods have diminishing returns, its impossible to stay alive forever, it only works its best on low lvl mobs with a steady to low stream of incoming fire, try standing next to a few or more drones in the void on t2/3 and you drop like a stone or just die as normal regardless.

 

I'ts plenty balanced given its not so useful at higher lvls or when under concentrated fire or continual dmg like fire/toxic goop where you suck floor regardless.

 

then theres the fact that all frames have a desired/optimal/useful setup and its hard to simply swap out 2 mods for 2 highly situational use mods, add to that the fact its only workable on high HP frames that can stockpile a decent amount of power.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Methanoid

[Legion-Shields]

both mods have diminishing returns, its impossible to stay alive forever, it only works its best on low lvl mobs with a steady to low stream of incoming fire, try standing next to a few or more drones in the void on t2/3 and you drop like a stone or just die as normal regardless.

 

I'ts plenty balanced given its not so useful at higher lvls or when under concentrated fire or continual dmg like fire/toxic goop where you suck floor regardless.

 

then theres the fact that all frames have a desired/optimal/useful setup and its hard to simply swap out 2 mods for 2 highly situational use mods, add to that the fact its only workable on high HP frames that can stockpile a decent amount of power.

As i have demonstrated on the first page it is possible to last forever in at least some situations that are reproducible. Other than that you make fair points.

[-..-]

I use it sometimes. To be honest though, I have a lot more fun using energy efficiency based mods and a set-up made to DEAL damage, rather than TAKE it. I think that's the major reason it's not nerfed. Sure, it lets you live longer. But will you be able to finish the mission if you're being staggered 99% of the time? Likely not. Hell, I think Iron Skin is more OP than QT/Rage. And that just takes 12 Energy to cast.

[CatScratch]

Quick thinking should be removed from the game, period, that's my opinion.

[Agent_of_Change]

Just tried the combo solo with my necros on a recent alert with enemies ~50 level. 

 

my findings in the current setup:

 

1. I Cannot die.  period.  i stood there under teh sustained fire of several moas for 5 or so minutes i then staggered around under the fire, i couldn't be killed at all, no slow drain, no eventual death.

 

2. You do get a crippling stagger still, if you are under fire for mong enough the combo seems to sorta break.  You stop taking, damage or gaining energy. for me it happened locked at 32 health, but you also can't really do anything except barely direct your movement. This stops after you get out of line of fire.

3. The insta-stagger trigger will recur automatically until you gain some health or energy to dislodge what ever broke.

 

Conclusion:

 

The combo is still plenty broken but there is still a crippling stagger if you stand there and tank too long at a time.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

The combo does have a nemesis. His name is disruptor. Nothing is God Mode in this game. There IS in fact balance here.

[RabidBunny]

I have just started doing this, my first run was on an alert on Ceres, it was a right larf.

 

Basically my team kept going down and with this combo (on Valkyr) I was able to go in and do some hard revives whilst drawing fire. Yes you can take an inordinate amount of damage, but its tradeoff is its rarity and losing 2 slots that could be used to help your abilities and your team out.

[Agent_of_Change]

I have just started doing this, my first run was on an alert on Ceres, it was a right larf.

 

Basically my team kept going down and with this combo (on Valkyr) I was able to go in and do some hard revives whilst drawing fire. Yes you can take an inordinate amount of damage, but its tradeoff is its rarity and losing 2 slots that could be used to help your abilities and your team out.

I would say you don't lose any slots at all as the slots i use for this i would have used for shields or health or some other defensive mods.  Functionally allowing two slots for not needing any other defensive mods is pretty good in my book.

[Brasten]

I read all theses arguments in similar form before, on original Rhino, and 90% DR Ember. Guess what happened to them.

DE will reduce it just so their Pet can get back to instan killing everyone.

[Felandi]

This combo was more balanced before damage 2.0 indeed. Currently only a few types of damage or situations counter quick thinking. The following things are all types of damage, sources or enemies that will almost instantly kill a quick thinking user.

 

Napalm grineer and their fire projectiles/traps. It appears to be counted as environmental damage, thus does not proc either rage or quick thinking properly. Lasers in the void will not activate the combo, the latchers thrown by seekers will attach themselves and kill you if your health is low. Corpus crewmen wielding the Prova will have the same deadly effect. As to what I have seen, grineer evicerators can also kill a quick thinking user with deadly efficiency.

 

Lastly, Grineer Hellions. As far as I am concerned, the deadliest units in this game, second only to napalm. The hellion missiles will kill a quick thinking user, just like firing the ogris at the floor will. Lastly, their backpacks are death-traps that can annihilate your entire team if the hellions are tightly packed.

 

On a related note, never, ever, EVER use use banshee's Sonic Boom against a group of Hellions. Every backpack in the group will detach at once, blowing up the entire room.

[lautalocos]

I say leave it. It's an amazing combo, yes, but in late game, be it survival or defence, it won't help you get oxygen ore defend the pod, not enough to remove it, plus, it's hela fun, and that's what being a space ninja's about.

counterpoint: its crazy overpowered

not every mission is a defense and survival mission. what is the point of playing if you cant die?

[Playford]

I think it's balanced, because all that flashing means I can't see $h!t and gives me a migraine

[Gr3vi3R]

what is the point of playing if you cant die?

 

 

 

[Xeare]

I did some math, and with a maxed out energy siphon aura, the energy-to-health ratio's puts the 0.6 energy regen a second to about 36 health a second. 

(To be specific, gaining 0.6 e/s * 2.4 = 1.44 hp/s, but because you are at a 4% hp loss compared to without the combo being at 100% hp loss, you have to account for that, and multiply it by 25 and you get 36 hp per second. If everyone on the team had a full energy siphon, that'd put you at a whopping 144 hp regen per second, as in hp per second as if the combo were not equipped.)

So, theoretically, this setup will leave you completely invulnerable (albeit perma-staggered) to anything that doesn't deal 36-144 HP damage a second to you constantly.

We all know how absurd damage seems to get at later levels, however, we also know that we aren't supposed to use our faces to block bullets. I'd say this would make great for solo play so that someone (like me, who has weird port issues right now and /can't/ do multiplayer >_>") could manage in higher level areas as long as they play carefully. It's kind of a tool to fall back on in case you were to screw up once or twice, but if you need it to even survive a mission, you won't likely be able to clear it at all. The reason for that being is that it's likely that if you need this set up as a crutch, your weapons won't be able to damage the enemies you're up against enough to kill them before you run out of ammo, and then you are stuck.

I think that this combo is really just a neat little trick that has some pretty neat uses, but it /really/ doesn't do much for someone without a really good primary weapon. The combo actually limits itself simply by being itself. This is because the game is designed around making sure your damage is up to par and your actual ninja skills are up to par by the time you hit X part of the game. If you end up "dying" multiple times per mission with this combo on, you're already proving that the mission is too much for you, and it'll either take really long to complete, or you'll end up actually dying because you'll run out of ammo, whilst wasting a ton of time.

[Spiritofpower]

I tried running an Immortal Ash solo against Ruk, and I got to the third phase when he used his volcanic pillars and I died. Either it wasn't causing Rage to proc or the sheer DpS of getting a direct hit from the volcanic pillars overloaded the cycle and killed me.

 

Honestly, I'd say it's pretty balanced as-is. You're ridiculously hard to kill, yes, but your power usage is extremely limited at best, and you've gotta sacrifice two full mod slots to fit it, and this is before other considerations like Vitality, which you'll need to maximize your lifespan, and Energy Siphon, which may not fit with your aura slot's polarity.

 

And, of course, Disruptors will just ruin your day >_>

[direcyphre]

I'm just surprised there isn't a basic cooldown on Quick Thinking's effect.