What do you find inconvenient when using GRENDEL?

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

I should have clarified....Grendel Nourish now applies viral to weapons....messing up the element weighting......before the update it was a straight toxin buff...adding even more to the element weighting to melee and shoot corpus....

There is less weighting issues with the current viral than there was with the old Toxin. Nourish did not work like Toxic Lash or Xata's Whisper, so it screwed up weighting on your weapon worse than viral does now since it added an uncombinable Toxin stat which also spread out your weighting more. Toxic Lash and Whisper on the otherhand have their own seperate status checks that wont impact your weighting. 

And if you really need that specific corpus setup you might aswell just uhm you know... mod for Toxin since you get Viral for free with Nourish. Which in reality works well against every single faction, since Grendel has the exact same potential as Hydroid, with innate armor strip and access to viral.

[quxier]

17 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

19 hours ago, quxier said:

magine there is space between your "meta causal" and "die hard fan of obesity Grendel".

When I hear "oh, Grendel could hold X enemies". Great. But how those people used it? I trick pony. Swallow everything, then throw up. They probably buffed their energy. That's all.

If you wanted to use Pulverize but you have no enemies in Belly? Turn off and grab them again. You have forgotten about empty Gut? Your 1/2 Primed flow energy would goes in seconds WITHOUT YOU DOING ANYTHING. Ghourmand that drain HP haven't helped too much. You were forced to look at 3 icons/bars instead of 2.  Not to mention Pulverize weren't that great in moving. You were basically forced to equip Catapult if you want to use Pulverize.

You says we mod for Viral like casuals. And eat/vomit cycle is what? I get that people are salty about no longer being able to eat more. But glorifying one style and trashing other is just silly.

 

I'm not saying it's perfect. However the made his whole kit much more usable.

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You have no idea how every person used it except for the uninformed that had no idea what they were doing and came to the forums to vent. 

I have no idea how every person used but I know when they complain it's mostly "I cannot eat X enemies so Grendel is trash" kind of thing.

17 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

I also shouldn't have to explain that orbs exist that you pick up, energize etc. 

That's nice, but let me by usage (I wanted to play Pulverize more).

So Grendel with Primed flow has 641 energy. Energize restore 150 energy at max rank every ~15 second (60% chance, 15s cooldown). So you get 175 energy every 15 second. Then times 1.25 at base. So that's 218 (at 200% strength it would be, I guess, 1.5x, so 262).

 

Sounds nice? Let me show you the other side.

Before change, Pulverize were slow. You were almost forced to use Catapult augment to move "properly". Every jump with Catapult costed 10 energy. Then you could get stuck for some time (ball rolling at walls - cannot move). Nourish costs 50 energy on cast. Feast costs 25 on casts. To max on normal mode you would have to cast feat few times. Then goes Pulverize. Before entering Pulverize I had, I don't know, 1/3 of less energy. With small strength you could sustain enemies but you get small buffs with Nourish & attack with Pulverize. With bigger strength on other hand you have better attack with Pulverize but enemies dies too quickly, making you drain your energy. Energy drain weren't constant. It could drain 1/2 of Primed flow energy in 10+ seconds (afair) without you doing nothing. There were some trick that I've used to reset increased energy drain (it started to drain slower) but I don't remember it. Add all this together and you are not using Pulverize too much on enemies.

 

Could you make it work so you would use Pulverize a lot? Probably. You could play on Steel path (not sure about its damage compared to SP enemies). You mentioned Rage. I don't remember I've used it so I have no opinion on it.

You could always turn off Pulverize and gather enemies/energy but doing so you wouldn't use Pulverize very often.

And of course "make it works" not "make it works THE BEST" on all content.

18 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Forced to look at icons? A person having slow coordination has nothing to do with the frame and more the individual.

Not just icons but 3 icons at the "same" time to manage just one function. Over complicating certain functions maybe fun but Warframe is not such game. Complicated usage of Pulverize stand out at that time. I don't think that any frame had to do so much things for just 1 function.

Sure, it might be me that are not great. I'm not some some pro gamer. However it wasn't about beating whole game with Pulverize. It was about just using it.

18 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Pulverize...you know thats a free helminth slot for Roar/Warcry/literally anything else, correct?

We're talking actual gameplay, not casuals making meme builds....

It wasn't about causal meme build. It was about normal build. You may not like Pulverize but it was reason why I used Grendel. It's in the kit so it has to be useful.

15 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

18 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

I also shouldn't have to explain that orbs exist that you pick up, energize etc. 

Orbs couldn't keep up with the drain. Also energize, lmao. Not everyone has energize, it was 2k plat for rank 5 then.

Yeah, I think it was even ~2.5k at some point. At that time I had it on 3/5 (100 energy).

16 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

20 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Please explain how a viral proc goes through shields...I'd love to see it...

Ok.

 

That's toxin that bypasses shield not Viral. His 4th (that you are using) does toxin.

16 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

Oh one more thing.

I think while in Pulverize, Grendel is still subject to hard landings, so if you're balling then land after jumping from a high place (I think Corpus Gas City is the perfect place to recreate this) you'll be stuck in place for about half a second.

Why this is the case I don't really know. 

Is this the same height as frame's hard landing? I've tried it in Ballroom simulacrum and frame has hard landing but not Pulverize.

 

 

[Skoomaseller]

7 hours ago, quxier said:

That's toxin that bypasses shield not Viral. His 4th (that you are using) does toxin.

The Toxin that bypasses the shield is boosted by the Viral procs, since it is directly damaging their health.

7 hours ago, quxier said:

Is this the same height as frame's hard landing? I've tried it in Ballroom simulacrum and frame has hard landing but not Pulverize.

Should be, not really sure. It does happen though that's for sure. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

10 hours ago, quxier said:

That's toxin that bypasses shield not Viral. His 4th (that you are using) does toxin.

On 2024-02-10 at 3:05 AM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Please explain how a viral proc goes through shields...I'd love to see it...

Yeah, for both of you;

Viral, as a Proc, affects all damage done to Health. Any damage that goes to Health is affected by a Viral proc. So a Viral proc goes through Shields, as long as your damage goes through Shields.

Grendel procs Viral, and deals Toxin damage, so a Viral Proc and Toxin Damage synergise perfectly against Corpus.

[sunderthefirmament]

On 2024-02-09 at 8:37 AM, Siryuniki said:

I feel that the Nourish ability is easier to use when used in other warframes.  When using Nourish in GRENDEL, I would like to see the restriction that you cannot use Nourish unless you prey on the enemy with the first ability be relaxed.

I also find it inconvenient that when the passive destroys an enemy, the armor value immediately decreases.

I find Hearty Nourishment particularly difficult to use.  I would like it to take the same amount of time as normal Nourish, regardless of the number of people being preyed on.

Fair and valid points.

 

I just find the swallowing enemies gameplay loop really fiddly and dull.  It's annoying sweeping his 1 over a crowded area and having no enemies actually fly into your gut.  Its targeting feels inconsistent, which isn't anything new in this game.  But for a frame that depends on the responsiveness of his 1 to fuel the rest of his kit, it's a huge problem.

[quxier]

5 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

12 hours ago, quxier said:

That's toxin that bypasses shield not Viral. His 4th (that you are using) does toxin.

The Toxin that bypasses the shield is boosted by the Viral procs, since it is directly damaging their health.

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

12 hours ago, quxier said:

That's toxin that bypasses shield not Viral. His 4th (that you are using) does toxin.

On 2024-02-10 at 4:05 AM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Please explain how a viral proc goes through shields...I'd love to see it...

Yeah, for both of you;

Viral, as a Proc, affects all damage done to Health. Any damage that goes to Health is affected by a Viral proc. So a Viral proc goes through Shields, as long as your damage goes through Shields.

Grendel procs Viral, and deals Toxin damage, so a Viral Proc and Toxin Damage synergise perfectly against Corpus.

Make sense. I've not been using toxic so I'm not well versed in it. Thanks for explanation.