Can we get a full auto mode for accesibility?

[TapelessDawn]

Hi everyone, Im making this post since lately Ive been trying semi auto weapons but single clicking each time has once again started to give me strain on my index.

 

I enjoy some weapons like the vasto recently but due to this I have to go back to mostly full auto. With us getting full auto melee, could we get an accesibility option to enable or disable this but for ranged weapons?

It shouldnt affect much given that semi auto have a locked fire rate that you cannot shoot faster than it.

[Drachnyn]

I heard destiny 2 did exactly what you are suggesting and it was a very well received change from what i gathered. Just a settings options aswell, no silly "tradeoffs" required for it either.

[Zakkhar]

You are free to use repeated fire presses macroed or already within a mouse (eg. my mouse has a small button called 3Xfire and it does exactly that).

[TapelessDawn]

hace 2 horas, Zakkhar dijo:

You are free to use repeated fire presses macroed or already within a mouse (eg. my mouse has a small button called 3Xfire and it does exactly that).

Forgive me if Im wrong but DE has made it clear that the usageof Macros makes your account be in thevline to be suspended or banned.

So I would not argue this is a good alternative when even just the ofdicial overlay for product like Keyboards can get you these issues.

[Zakkhar]

1 hour ago, TapelessDawn said:

Forgive me if Im wrong but DE has made it clear that the usageof Macros makes your account be in thevline to be suspended or banned.

Not exactly. They made it clear the the usage of macros that play the game for you makes your account be in the line to be suspended or banned.

This is an accesibility issue, you have to actually press the button for it to be pressed. And it doesnt do a complicated queue of button presses either. A lot of semi-auto weapons have substantial recoil so it is not like you are getting any unfair advantage or cheating. 

There are slim chances they make it an option by the simple fact auto melee has been introduced and has a lot of issues (no toggle global or disable for certain weapons). Plenty of semi-auto are like that for a reason (recoil, needing to aim, low magazines), can you imagine how it would look if they were going brr like auto ones?

Edited March 11 by Zakkhar

[TapelessDawn]

hace 58 minutos, Zakkhar dijo:

Not exactly. They made it clear the the usage of macros that play the game for you makes your account be in the line to be suspended or banned.

This is an accesibility issue, you have to actually press the button for it to be pressed. And it doesnt do a complicated queue of button presses either. A lot of semi-auto weapons have substantial recoil so it is not like you are getting any unfair advantage or cheating. 

There are slim chances they make it an option by the simple fact auto melee has been introduced and has a lot of issues (no toggle global or disable for certain weapons). Plenty of semi-auto are like that for a reason (recoil, needing to aim, low magazines), can you imagine how it would look if they were going brr like auto ones?

Again, they cannot go at faster rates unless one invests heavily into fire rate. Otherwise theres no change to it. Its locked, it isnt like early CoD games where some semi autos didnt have the fire rate limited.

[Waeleto]

4 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

You are free to use repeated fire presses macroed or already within a mouse (eg. my mouse has a small button called 3Xfire and it does exactly that).

And risk a ban ? no thanks

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, Zakkhar said:

Plenty of semi-auto are like that for a reason (recoil, needing to aim, low magazines), can you imagine how it would look if they were going brr like auto ones?

I imagine it would look just like how they do now with macros and scroll wheel input.

[Zakkhar]

13 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

I imagine it would look just like how they do now with macros and scroll wheel input.

Difference is it is human, not some global arbitrary setting (if there is a setting at all) who decides whether to use the scroll wheel input or just Lclick. So not only it can vary depending on weapons, but also depending on situation. It does not disable normal semi-auto lcliick.

Edited March 11 by Zakkhar

[Zakkhar]

14 hours ago, Waeleto said:

And risk a ban ? no thanks

Kinda depends what softoware you are goinng to use for that. Some shady stuff capable of botting (different button presses queue plus some conditionals)? Probably not a good idea. The software for your programmable mouse and keyboard that is active anyway? Why not?

Edited March 11 by Zakkhar

[TapelessDawn]

hace 23 minutos, Zakkhar dijo:

Kinda depends what softoware you are goinng to use for that. Some shady stuff capable of botting (different button presses queue plus some conditionals)? Probably not a good idea. The software for your programmable mouse and keyboard that is active anyway? Why not?

It just isnt a solution, even more so for other players on console. 

I dont see a reason to stand against this being implemented, it overall looks like a netvpositive that could make semi autos also be used more frequently.

[Tiltskillet]

46 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

Difference is it is human, not some global arbitrary setting (if there is a setting at all) who decides whether to use the scroll wheel input or just Lclick. So not only it can vary depending on weapons, but also depending on situation. It does not disable normal semi-auto lcliick.

The OP's proposal is a full-auto option, not a conversion of all semi auto weapons to full auto. 

[PollexMessier]

They really should have added this alongside auto-mele.

Tho aside from (Unwarrented) balance concerns, doing this to guns would be a lot more work than mele. Some would have to have exceptions due to having different firing modes on hold or quicktap. Bows and other hold-charge weapons would have to have their own separate toggle because weapons like that auto-firing completely changes the way you use them. And I'm sure there's a few funky outliers.

Overall tho, I agree. I've been advocating for this for a long time. It'd definitely have kinks to work out tho.

[Agall]

On 2024-03-10 at 11:17 AM, TapelessDawn said:

Hi everyone, Im making this post since lately Ive been trying semi auto weapons but single clicking each time has once again started to give me strain on my index.

 

I enjoy some weapons like the vasto recently but due to this I have to go back to mostly full auto. With us getting full auto melee, could we get an accesibility option to enable or disable this but for ranged weapons?

It shouldnt affect much given that semi auto have a locked fire rate that you cannot shoot faster than it.

So you're asking for semi-automatic to just be slower automatic fire? That's just automatic fire at that point, by definition.

I'll be the guy to tell you to use an automatic firearm if you're having accessibility problems with semi-automatic firearms.

I'd rather see them remove firing rate caps on semi-automatic firearms to inspire cheaters to get banned for macros and benefit the sweaters with a fast trigger finger. Last time I experienced this bliss was Black Ops 3 with the wall running and starting pistol, which was the most powerful weapon in the game in the right hands. It didn't have a capped firing rate till a couple months into release where I proceeded to no longer care for the game (the game also has weapons that dropped from loot boxes which was extremely scummy). 

[TapelessDawn]

hace 16 minutos, Agall dijo:

So you're asking for semi-automatic to just be slower automatic fire? That's just automatic fire at that point, by definition.

I'll be the guy to tell you to use an automatic firearm if you're having accessibility problems with semi-automatic firearms.

I'd rather see them remove firing rate caps on semi-automatic firearms to inspire cheaters to get banned for macros and benefit the sweaters with a fast trigger finger. Last time I experienced this bliss was Black Ops 3 with the wall running and starting pistol, which was the most powerful weapon in the game in the right hands. It didn't have a capped firing rate till a couple months into release where I proceeded to no longer care for the game (the game also has weapons that dropped from loot boxes which was extremely scummy). 

I highly disagree here, its simply that people who enjoy the feeling of semi auto cannot always keep the shots on due to strain, this would be completely foolish since Macros would abuse it into oblivion if there was no cap and no one would be able to use them with this accesibility option.

Out of all the takes Ive read, this one wasnt thought through.

Edited March 11 by TapelessDawn

[Zakkhar]

2 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

The OP's proposal is a full-auto option, not a conversion of all semi auto weapons to full auto. 

And the OPs proposals before were for auto melee option and see what we got.

[TapelessDawn]

hace 9 minutos, Zakkhar dijo:

And the OPs proposals before were for auto melee option and see what we got.

I never asked for auto melee and if I had, it wouldve been the same as here, an accesibility toggle.

So dont put words in the mouths of others.

[Zakkhar]

2 hours ago, TapelessDawn said:

It just isnt a solution, even more so for other players on console. 

It is something though. Writing posts on forums and doing the same thing you have been doing before, will not reduce your fingers injury.

 

2 hours ago, TapelessDawn said:

I dont see a reason to stand against this being implemented, it overall looks like a netvpositive that could make semi autos also be used more frequently.

I am not advocating for anything. I am simply afraid that, should we get this update, it will be botched like auto-melee implementation.

[Zakkhar]

1 minute ago, TapelessDawn said:

4 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

And the OPs proposals before were for auto melee option and see what we got.

I never asked for auto melee and if I had, it wouldve been the same as here, an accesibility toggle.

So dont put words in the mouths of others.

Sorry, missing apostrophe. I meant OPs' proposals. Not you particularly, but plenty of people who wrote threads advocating for auto melee. And we got it. Hooray.

[Agall]

3 minutes ago, TapelessDawn said:

I highly disagree here, its simply that people who enjoy the feeling of semi auto cannot always keep the shots on due to strain, this would be completely foolish since Macros would abuse it into oblivion if there was no cap and no one would be able to use them with this accesibility option.

Out of all the takes Ive read, this one wasnt thought through.

I don't believe you've answered my question, being if you're asking for semi-automatic to no longer be semi-automatic. If so, then this isn't a take, but a simple reality. What you're otherwise asking for is a removal of semi-automatic and just have any previously semi-automatic firearm converted into 'really slow automatic' firing. This is simply not how it works though, unless DE is willing to subsume an entire class of firearms.

Also, melee isn't comparable to this. Firearms in this game, outside of alt fires, don't have unique mechanics based on timings and stance combos. The closest thing would be Perfect charge shots weapons like Nataruk or Cinta. The addition of auto melee was to resolve the problems a majority of players have with the system, that they really don't use combos and primary quick melee. Before that, proper melee only gameplay with combos wasn't exhausting, speaking as someone who's preferred that gameplay for nearly a decade. It did however make it more viable to stack attack speed on something like Exalted Blade, but that's also a negation of stance combos.

[TapelessDawn]

hace 13 minutos, Agall dijo:

I don't believe you've answered my question, being if you're asking for semi-automatic to no longer be semi-automatic. If so, then this isn't a take, but a simple reality. What you're otherwise asking for is a removal of semi-automatic and just have any previously semi-automatic firearm converted into 'really slow automatic' firing. This is simply not how it works though, unless DE is willing to subsume an entire class of firearms.

Also, melee isn't comparable to this. Firearms in this game, outside of alt fires, don't have unique mechanics based on timings and stance combos. The closest thing would be Perfect charge shots weapons like Nataruk or Cinta. The addition of auto melee was to resolve the problems a majority of players have with the system, that they really don't use combos and primary quick melee. Before that, proper melee only gameplay with combos wasn't exhausting, speaking as someone who's preferred that gameplay for nearly a decade. It did however make it more viable to stack attack speed on something like Exalted Blade, but that's also a negation of stance combos.

Quite literally this is an accesibility option where one can turn on or off, the fire rate will remain the same.

And as shown in other games that have implemented this, even with PVP attached to them, it doesnt bring any change given the limitation of rounds per minute.

You dont get strain while shooting it? Ok good, you dont turn it on.

And then given how little your other proposal was given to remove the cap for fire rate, my guess is that your questioning here also wasnt throught through.

Edited March 11 by TapelessDawn

[Zakkhar]

1 minute ago, Agall said:

The addition of auto melee was to resolve the problems a majority of players have with the system, that they really don't use combos and primary quick melee.

With all due respect. Bullsht. Get of your high horse.

4 minutes ago, Agall said:

Before that, proper melee only gameplay with combos wasn't exhausting, speaking as someone who's preferred that gameplay for nearly a decade.

You may have not specced into attack speed enough.

5 minutes ago, Agall said:

It did however make it more viable to stack attack speed on something like Exalted Blade, but that's also a negation of stance combos.

Stacking attack speed was always viable because it was end multiplier to damage. And still is. Most of the stances have a combo with best dmg/s that also happens to be the best forced procs. Only reason to ever use other combos would be for mobility reasons (or number of attacks in case of armor stripping).

 

[Tiltskillet]

6 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

And the OPs proposals before were for auto melee option and see what we got.

I'm not sure which proposals you're referring to.  In any case I'm responding to this proposal, not one I think was made in the past about melee.

And FWIW I don't think it's utterly hopeless that automelee gets a toggle itself some day, though I haven't had a need for it myself.

 

[Agall]

58 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

With all due respect. Bullsht. Get of your high horse.

You may have not specced into attack speed enough.

Stacking attack speed was always viable because it was end multiplier to damage. And still is. Most of the stances have a combo with best dmg/s that also happens to be the best forced procs. Only reason to ever use other combos would be for mobility reasons (or number of attacks in case of armor stripping).

 

Its not a high horse, its simply being realistic. If they simply subsumed the whole class of semi-automatic into 'low firing rate fully automatic', then sure, why not.

Higher attack speed can easily constrain the reliable use of more advantageous stance combos without fully completing them, the best example being [Blind Justice]'s forward block. The sweet spot I found was between 0.8 and 1.2 to get a reliable rhythm to that stance and its forced slash procs, which is still the case with auto melee. Auto melee has made it more complicated, since you either stack enough attack speed to get through the combo or still have low enough to interrupt it. Same goes for spamming forced slash procs with [Iron Phoenix], too high attack speed and it forces you to do the next part of the combo. That really doesn't matter on Exalted Blade which is why I stack more attack speed on it, since you're just throwing waves the whole time. The rest of its combos really do nothing.

1 hour ago, TapelessDawn said:

Quite literally this is an accesibility option where one can turn on or off, the fire rate will remain the same.

And as shown in other games that have implemented this, even with PVP attached to them, it doesnt bring any change given the limitation of rounds per minute.

You dont get strain while shooting it? Ok good, you dont turn it on.

And then given how little your other proposal was given to remove the cap for fire rate, my guess is that your questioning here also wasnt throught through.

I know precisely what you're referring to and I imagine most games have steered towards that, unfortunately. Keep in mind that definition wise, a semi-automatic firearm is a firearm that only fires once per action of the trigger, a fully automatic firearm being a firearm that fires more than once per single action of the trigger.

I imagine a lot of games have semi-automatic caps to prevent auto clickers and macros from being too powerful, but when I first started seeing this about a decade ago in AAA games, they'd basically nerf them into the ground and balance them around absurdly long forced firing rates. They then became just worse firearms since they lost the skill component of semi-automatic fire that video games had prior.

If they add this, they're no longer semi-auto, simple as that. I'd rather them maintain semi-automatic and simply either increase the firing rate or not call them semi-automatic.

I really don't see it as an accessibility feature, since its apart of its design. Would be like adding extreme auto aim because "aiming strains your hands". If they decided to call it automatic instead and give it a low firing rate, then sure, but it's no longer semi-automatic.

[TapelessDawn]

hace 2 horas, Agall dijo:

Its not a high horse, its simply being realistic. If they simply subsumed the whole class of semi-automatic into 'low firing rate fully automatic', then sure, why not.

Higher attack speed can easily constrain the reliable use of more advantageous stance combos without fully completing them, the best example being [Blind Justice]'s forward block. The sweet spot I found was between 0.8 and 1.2 to get a reliable rhythm to that stance and its forced slash procs, which is still the case with auto melee. Auto melee has made it more complicated, since you either stack enough attack speed to get through the combo or still have low enough to interrupt it. Same goes for spamming forced slash procs with [Iron Phoenix], too high attack speed and it forces you to do the next part of the combo. That really doesn't matter on Exalted Blade which is why I stack more attack speed on it, since you're just throwing waves the whole time. The rest of its combos really do nothing.

I know precisely what you're referring to and I imagine most games have steered towards that, unfortunately. Keep in mind that definition wise, a semi-automatic firearm is a firearm that only fires once per action of the trigger, a fully automatic firearm being a firearm that fires more than once per single action of the trigger.

I imagine a lot of games have semi-automatic caps to prevent auto clickers and macros from being too powerful, but when I first started seeing this about a decade ago in AAA games, they'd basically nerf them into the ground and balance them around absurdly long forced firing rates. They then became just worse firearms since they lost the skill component of semi-automatic fire that video games had prior.

If they add this, they're no longer semi-auto, simple as that. I'd rather them maintain semi-automatic and simply either increase the firing rate or not call them semi-automatic.

I really don't see it as an accessibility feature, since its apart of its design. Would be like adding extreme auto aim because "aiming strains your hands". If they decided to call it automatic instead and give it a low firing rate, then sure, but it's no longer semi-automatic.

All of this just reads as elitism to be sincere, its warframe and no one is getring an advantage over you for caring for their qell being and not straining their fingers.

The fact you are the one against it while evryone lse agrees, it'd be a great QoL improvement should give you a moment to think before going on into rambling.