It's been 4-5 years since Kuva Liches were added, and I'm still waiting for Ephemeras to become more Universal

[Zahnrad]

So, I just now took Shade Prime out of the Foundry, and as all players do. I went to customizing it.

Which reminded me that the Ephemeras for Kuva Liches were sort of glitched, in that they were more Universal than they were intended to be. Ephemeras obtained specifically from Kuva Liches can be applied to numerous other things besides your Warframe and Operator/Drifter.

This might be incomplete but to my knowledge, they can be applied to, All Companions, K-Drives, Archwings and Necramechs.

 

Thankfully DE saw this as something good and decided to leave it in/not fix it. Which I want to state I am extremely thankful for, but at the same time. It always gave me the impression DE might work on getting other Ephemeras or future Ephemeras the same treatment to be applied more universally in the future.

Checking the wiki, the Kuva Liches came out in late 2019 and only the Lich Ephemeras can be applied to other things of interest.

 

For the record, I understand there are limitations. A sentinel having a "Step" Ephemera might be a bit odd, but I would still like to see more general use Ephemeras gain compatibility with other things in Warframe. I've voiced this opinion a few times in the past and I really hope DE are receptive to this idea as Fashionframe extends to more than just our Frames these days.

Edited March 15 by Zahnny

[NekroArts]

My main concern is more visual clutter, especially when it's on sentinels.

Edited March 15 by NekroArts

[Waeleto]

I was thinking about this literally yesterday, i LOVE my sentinels and my sentinels fashion i even bought 2 prime sentinel accessories, i wish we could use more ephemeras on them cause the options right now are VERY limited

[Voltage]

14 hours ago, NekroArts said:

My main concern is more visual clutter, especially when it's on sentinels.

Yeah, Warframe definitely has this concern now and it's a catch 22. Like sure it's cool to get even more customizations, but between Signas, Ephemeras, massive wings, and the more "outlandish" Syandanas/Armor sets, some combinations just completely clutter the screen.

[Xzorn]

2 hours ago, Voltage said:

Yeah, Warframe definitely has this concern now and it's a catch 22. Like sure it's cool to get even more customizations, but between Signas, Ephemeras, massive wings, and the more "outlandish" Syandanas/Armor sets, some combinations just completely clutter the screen.

 

Yea well they were supposed to be footprint effects. Steve even said "Sorry Path of Exile. We love you" when introducing them cuz they knew.

They were also supposed to be rare. 5% from Exploiter Orb for Lightning/Ice and 0.3% from Arbitration enemies.

On my return I see that didn't last long. Just like PoE though I don't use most character effects cuz they cover my fashion.

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

Yea well they were supposed to be footprint effects. Steve even said "Sorry Path of Exile. We love you" when introducing them cuz they knew.

They were also supposed to be rare. 5% from Exploiter Orb for Lightning/Ice and 0.3% from Arbitration enemies.

On my return I see that didn't last long. Just like PoE though I don't use most character effects cuz they cover my fashion.

Well like anything, they realized they could monetize them more. "Earned only" cosmetics are nice for players, but really offer no monetary benefit to the game's monetization. Look no further than Signas.

[Xzorn]

4 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Well like anything, they realized they could monetize them more. "Earned only" cosmetics are nice for players, but really offer no monetary benefit to the game's monetization. Look no further than Signas.

 

One could argue people playing your game for more than an hour can also yield profit but it's obvious DE doesn't think that.

I'm certainly of that type given I was an endurance runner. I'd max out all types of weird combinations to try out that I'd otherwise never use.

I imagine people would still be buying Affinity boosters if the Focus system had a strong soft cap. Every 20mil in Zenurik the frame gets +1 Energy. Not saying monetizing cosmetics is bad. Obviously it's the norm for F2P but they could also add some incentive for people who want to just play the game and not hit that dead end. For some reason developers these days seem to think you can only have one of rare drops, weeklies/dailies or token systems. No guys, you can use all at once. It works.

But yea, I still sport Shocking Step on most frames. Doesn't clutter and probably still one of the rarest drops.
What kinda crazy person would spend a week farming Exploiter for a footprint effect =D

[Voltage]

2 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

One could argue people playing your game for more than an hour can also yield profit but it's obvious DE doesn't think that.

I'm certainly of that type given I was an endurance runner. I'd max out all types of weird combinations to try out that I'd otherwise never use.

I imagine people would still be buying Affinity boosters if the Focus system had a strong soft cap. Every 20mil in Zenurik the frame gets +1 Energy. Not saying monetizing cosmetics is bad. Obviously it's the norm for F2P but they could also add some incentive for people who want to just play the game and not hit that dead end. For some reason developers these days seem to think you can only have one of rare drops, weeklies/dailies or token systems. No guys, you can use all at once. It works.

But yea, I still sport Shocking Step on most frames. Doesn't clutter and probably still one of the rarest drops.
What kinda crazy person would spend a week farming Exploiter for a footprint effect =D

Well yeah. Earned only stuff would certainly give additional indirect value for players, but selling something is just so easy and readily available. This game's community also thinks it's quite taboo to have items only certain players can obtain, which translates to anything rare being random drops for accessibility, but then that's despised for a different reason and becomes watered down too.

I always wished Focus had some kind of logarithmic scaling bonuses that a player can sink excess Affinity into for eternity with just less and less being squeezed out as time goes on.

We can only dream I guess. I certainly agree with you though. I wish we had more things that were achievement-based or just kept to earning exclusively through missions. 

[Zahnrad]

19 hours ago, NekroArts said:

My main concern is more visual clutter, especially when it's on sentinels.

Honestly can agree. I wish we had a slider to reduce the intensity of Ephemera effects, or pick and choose parts of an Ephemera we like.

I think the Spore Ephemera has one of the best effects in the game, the underglow. Unfortunately it's tied to several other effects that are undesirable to me personally.

[PollexMessier]

16 hours ago, Voltage said:

Well yeah. Earned only stuff would certainly give additional indirect value for players, but selling something is just so easy and readily available. This game's community also thinks it's quite taboo to have items only certain players can obtain, which translates to anything rare being random drops for accessibility, but then that's despised for a different reason and becomes watered down too.

I for one love when stuff's locked behind a hard challenge, as long as it's cosmetic only. Like the fragmented one hands are great. there's absolutely no reason to even do that boss except to get those hands and they only serve as bragging rights for "I did this stupid, unnecessary side challenge" And I love crap like that.

I was surprised how much backlash that got. Like you don't need the hands, the whole point of the hands is proof you accomplished the otherwise pointless challenge. I kinda wish it was a solo requirement on top of that, both so other players wouldn't force you into it if you didn't wanna do it (tho that was later sorta fixed), and so you couldn't leech the reward and claim you did it.

I would have loved if steel path came with some cosmetics like that for doing stuff like the eidolans / profit taker cus there is absolutely no reason to run those in steel path. Even if it was just some 3d emblems... and by that I mean especially if it was 3d emblems cus we are severely lacking in those. We've literally only gotten the evolving one since trials were removed like... 6 years ago? (which evolved into an almost un-noticeably different variant of the base emblem, and one actually different one) And it's a platinum purchase not an earnable cosmetic...

If it's stuff that affects gameplay tho than I'm not so on board with it

Edited March 17 by PollexMessier

[Binket_]

20 hours ago, Zahnny said:

A sentinel having a "Step" Ephemera might be a bit odd, but I would still like to see more general use Ephemeras gain compatibility with other things in Warframe.

As far as I'm concerned, DE should let some be universal UNLESS the gear you're applying it to is incompatible with the Ephemera in question.
Things like- as you mentioned- Step Ephemeras being usable on Sentinels would make no sense as they don't exactly have footprints to go with.
At best, it'd simply just not be visual. Most likely it'd be incredibly awkward visually.

That being said... a small list with some notable factors to account for:

• Ephemeras requiring rigging to certain body parts.
  • Examples include: Purified Bloom, Raptwing, Seraphyre, Fog of War, Okuri, Protovyre (All Tiers) etc.
    • This is mainly because not everything has the same mesh and may end up rigging poorly because of it.
• Ephemeras that would be far too obstructive.
  • Examples include: Eros Wings, Nyctalus, Purified Bloom, etc.
    • Necramechs are already massive.
    • Do we need the obnoxious ones to become even more of a problem?
• Ephemeras that may cause orbiting effects to scale poorly.
  • Examples include: Hypatia, Crania, Xianglong, Solena, etc.
    • Keep in mind, this one is more speculative in nature.
    • I don't know for a fact if they would scale poorly, but I believe it would be too much trouble to be bother.
• The Vaaditum Prime Ephemera (Baruuk Prime Cosmetic) simply due to it's relay effect.

 

This may sound like it effects a LOT of them, but there are many that I feel could still work even with these limitations.

• Ephemeras that are simply aura particles.
  • Examples include: Smoke, Tenebrous, Festering, Bleeding Body, etc.
    • This already applies to all of the Vengeful Ephemeras, of which are simply cloudy particles.
• Ephemeras that add an overlay effect.
  • Examples include: Kudzon, Frostfall, Tenebrous, Catena Prime, Ki'teer, etc.
    • "Ki'teer" is not to be confused with "Ki'teer Reverence", which is a completely different Ephemera.
• Ephemeras with a simple bounding effect.
  • Examples include: Waveform, Trio Orbit, etc.

 

This is by no means an exhaustive list, but it does list a lot of which could work and which don't.
Personally, I have no idea why ones like Tenebrous aren't an option. It's such a simple Ephemera that doesn't get enough love I feel.
Kinda has that dusty, "not quite spatially stable" look to it. As if it's just out of sight, but still visible.

[Zahnrad]

6 minutes ago, Binket_ said:

• Necramechs are already massive.
• Do we need the obnoxious ones to become even more of a problem?

Yeah, this is why I wish we had some sliders or options to mess with the intensity or amount of effects on Ephemeras.

Out of the current Lich Ephemeras, I tend to use the Trickster Ephemera since it enhances things without being overbearing and feeling subtle. I just wish that it worked a bit better since only certain parts of non-warframes get the effect

[Binket_]

54 minutes ago, PollexMessier said:

I for one love when stuff's locked behind a hard challenge, as long as it's cosmetic only.

I was surprised how much backlash that got. Like you don't need the hands, the whole point of the hands is proof you accomplished the otherwise pointless challenge.

Wait, people were upset at that?!
I always say this game is easy as hell, so having an unlockable "extra" cosmetic being locked behind a decent challenge is something I'd love to see more of.

I mean, there's always going to be casuals who complain because they can't get it.
... but they're also the kinds of player who drop the game after two or three weeks anyway because they can't be bothered to learn how to jump.
The fact that it's also just a ship cosmetic- something you only see on loading screens- kinda makes it more dissapointing.

Here I was wanting some cosmetics that really pushes the player to exceed and do their best.
Hell, there used to be some related to the Leaderboards. The top 1000 players who got the most kills within a certain timeframe got a special "Skull Emblem".
https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Warframe_Cosmetics#Skull_Badges

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind some Emotes, Idle Animations, Emblems or even some specialized "Aeon" Warframe Skins that are gained from trial and tribulation.
Hell, the Protovyre Set proved having it "evolve" over time with certain conditions is a good proof-of-concept! You can combine the best of both worlds!

16 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

Yeah, this is why I wish we had some sliders or options to mess with the intensity or amount of effects on Ephemeras.

I wouldn't mind Purified Bloom nearly as much if there was an option to turn off the flashbang it is.
... well, there IS one-- but it involves clever use of dual-tone energy. (Black primary color)

I shouldn't have to turn off visual effects from others completely to enjoy some cosmetics, that's just poor design in general.
It's the same reason I can't stand the Protea Deluxe Tonkor skin, Bubonico, etc.
They're too loud, too bright, excessive particles...

They keep making them ungodly bright to catch the eyes of those who DO have those effects turned down, at the expense of everyone else.
Which is redundant because... you could just turn down the main source of the problem.
Oh well, we all know the paradoxical phrase by now: "DE is as consistent as they are inconsistent."

[PollexMessier]

1 hour ago, Binket_ said:

Wait, people were upset at that?!
I always say this game is easy as hell, so having an unlockable "extra" cosmetic being locked behind a decent challenge is something I'd love to see more of.

It wasn't so much that the cosmetic was locked behind a hard challenge, as much as how hard the challenge was... But that's more or less the same complaint just worded differently.

It was pretty ridiculous how many complaint posts popped up about it.

1 hour ago, Binket_ said:

... but they're also the kinds of player who drop the game after two or three weeks anyway because they can't be bothered to learn how to jump.

To be fair. the game does a very bad job teaching players how the parkour system works.

A lot better than it used to. But I feel like a junction needs to direct players to the "advanced movement" tutorial in the codex or something just to hammer it in....

As well as maybe changing the name of that to "Basic movement" and having a second movement tutorial called advanced movement that actually goes into how chaining different parkour moves together works. I've been wanting to build a legit advanced movement training track in my dojo but haven't gotten around to it. I also really think we should have a "parkour playground" sort of area, ether in relays or iron wake or something, for players that wanna mess around and experiment with the movement system in a place that's built specifically for that purpose and doesn't have the pressure of being in a mission or having enemies shoot at you. The game's movement is really fun and quite possibly the best thing about it, and many players barely have a cursory understanding of how it works. Pretty much everywhere in the game that actually asks you to engage with the movement puts pressure on you with a failure condition, which discourages messing around and experimenting. Anyway, wildly off topic.

[Binket_]

Just now, PollexMessier said:

It wasn't so much that the cosmetic was locked behind a hard challenge, as much as how hard the challenge was...

Truly a "git gud" moment for them. Nothing more, nothing less.
It was a completely fair fight, casuals are just way too used to abusing the hell out of Revenant's Mesmer Skin.

The whole motto REALLY should be:
"Play cool, get cool stuff.
Play lame, get lame stuff."

A game should be engaging, regardless of difficulty. I felt the boss did a pretty good job of keeping me engaged.
I can't say the same for bosses like Lt. Lech Kril, Jackal (both Venus and Circuit), Alad V, Ambulas-- and many, many more.
Honestly, it's practically a breath of fresh air considering what we've been served so far.

4 minutes ago, PollexMessier said:

To be fair. the game does a very bad job teaching players how the parkour system works.

The game does a very bad job at teaching players in general.
There are some players that have gotten to Steel Path and genuinely do not know you can build more than one thing in the Foundry at a given time.

It's why I've been so loud about DE needing to make a proper tutorial.
The game teaches us nothing and "just look at the Wiki" isn't really much of an option anymore.
Be it lowered attention spans, players just being illiterate or just not wanting to pull out their phones for every minor detail-- it gets annoying fast either way.

We do have a "hints" button for abilities, certain menus, etc... but it's tucked so out of the way that you'd be lucky if a player sees it at all.

... it also doesn't help that DE's response to players getting stuck in Saya's Vigil super early on was "make it mandatory", ignoring all the consequences that come with that.
^{DE's logic is something enigmatic, I swear. Sometimes it's really clever, but most times I feel like I get better consistency from DnD's "Wild Magic" being used safely.}

[Xzorn]

11 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

If it's stuff that affects gameplay tho than I'm not so on board with it

 

What, you mean like Braton/Lato Vandal? Two of the most expensive items in the game because of a 2% rotation drop chance?
Well and the fact few people do that game mode because it was a chopped up version of whatever it was intended to be.

DE isn't above low drop chance cosmetics either. I remember two events where Rift Sigil was the main prize at very low chance.
Now they give it away. RIP to anyone who tried to grind those events for it.

[PollexMessier]

3 hours ago, Xzorn said:

What, you mean like Braton/Lato Vandal? Two of the most expensive items in the game because of a 2% rotation drop chance?
Well and the fact few people do that game mode because it was a chopped up version of whatever it was intended to be.

DE isn't above low drop chance cosmetics either. I remember two events where Rift Sigil was the main prize at very low chance.
Now they give it away. RIP to anyone who tried to grind those events for it.

As much as I despise that grind... Luck is not challenge, and those two weapons are so bad they're not even really worth thinking about until you've obtained literally everything else in the game. I'm more annoyed with grinds like Aeolak and Cinta... which are actually useable weapons. Grind wasn't really part of the discussion tho.